First of all, let me apologize to those of you who have already chimed in on this topic. I had a bit of computer trouble and lost some of the links that were sent to me by Frank S of the Riverside Raceway Forum.
I am looking for information regarding Jim Clarks drive in a Lotus 23 at the LA Times Grand Prix in 1963. First of all, let me tell you what I know, or believe to know, and we can go from there. Clark was scheduled to drive a Lotus 19 for the Acerio Bros. They had problems with the car during the Consolation race. Clark reverted to a back up car, the Lotus 23. List members have supplied clips from two period publications that say the car owner was Bob Challman, the West Coast Lotus Dist. Most of those I have spoken with, including Frank Monise Jr., told me he believed that to be true, however he added that Challmans cars were always painted "off white" with a particular script #2 on them. I have watched a "Glory Days" special on the race and it shows Clark driving the 23 with the special script #222 but the car sure looks silver to me. If there are still entry records out there, I would guess that it would list the Lotus 19 as the formal entry. Monise told me that it was common to send over a car to race and then sell it. Did Challman have more than one 23??? Monise said yes, but it was red and sold to his dad. So that is as much as I know for the moment.........I know there is a wealth of knowledge out there. How about anyone who might have crewed on the car?? Photos???? Someone must have photos of then World Champion Clark.
thanks so much,
Mike Summers
Jim Clark at the 1963 LA Times Grand Prix, Lotus 23
Started by
Mike Summers
, Jun 27 2006 00:38
13 replies to this topic
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#2
Jerry Entin
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:21
Mike this has nothing to do with the Lotus 23. I was at that 1963 race and went out on the course to watch Clark drive the Lotus 19. He was very smooth. This was in practice. I do remember Bob Challman having a white Lotus 23 also. I have a picture of him in this white car. Frank Monise is also in this picture and his car was green not red I believe. I will ask Stuart Dent to post the photo as I am 64 and don't know how to post photos. My photo is from Santa Barbara in 1964. I am told by Willem Oosthoek that the Lotus 19 was prepared by Chuck Daigh for the Arciero Team and that it suffered an oil pump problem. Clark than drove a brand new Lotus 23 for Bob Challman and won the under 2 liter class. This was after Billy Krause in an Elva Mk6 had steering trouble.
#4
raceannouncer2003
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:40
LA Times photo of Clark in the 23 at '63 Times GP (black and white unfortunately)
http://img348.images...tus233079ym.jpg
Now ensues the inevitable discussion, "Is that silver or white?"
The following weekend, the Laguna Seca program listed Trevor Taylor in a #22 Ecurie Shirlee (Challman) Lotus 23B...a subsequent separate "Final Entries" list had Jim Clark (#19) (backup?) and Bob Challman (#32) in Ecurie Shirlee Lotus 23's...however, Clark raced the Arciero Lotus 19, and I don't believe Taylor or Challman took part there.
Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada
http://img348.images...tus233079ym.jpg
Now ensues the inevitable discussion, "Is that silver or white?"
The following weekend, the Laguna Seca program listed Trevor Taylor in a #22 Ecurie Shirlee (Challman) Lotus 23B...a subsequent separate "Final Entries" list had Jim Clark (#19) (backup?) and Bob Challman (#32) in Ecurie Shirlee Lotus 23's...however, Clark raced the Arciero Lotus 19, and I don't believe Taylor or Challman took part there.
Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada
#5
Ray Bell
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:11
Here's Jerry's pic...
#6
Mike Summers
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:47
Yikes! More questions.....
It is clear that the Lotus 19 did not make it to the main event. What I am trying to get to is this.........the 23 that Clark drove at Riverside belonged to Challman. That much we believe is true. Now, did Challman have more than one 23 at the time?? Or was there just one, off white Ecurie Shirllee Lotus 23. The dark colored 23 with the number #44 on it, where was that pic taken and who is driving??
Great info guys, keep it coming
Mike
Has anyone seen the Glory Days segment? It is on the Speedgeezers forum.
It is clear that the Lotus 19 did not make it to the main event. What I am trying to get to is this.........the 23 that Clark drove at Riverside belonged to Challman. That much we believe is true. Now, did Challman have more than one 23 at the time?? Or was there just one, off white Ecurie Shirllee Lotus 23. The dark colored 23 with the number #44 on it, where was that pic taken and who is driving??
Great info guys, keep it coming
Mike
Has anyone seen the Glory Days segment? It is on the Speedgeezers forum.
#7
Ray Bell
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 06:27
As Jerry says, it was at Santa Barbara in 1964...
See the first post after you started the thread.
See the first post after you started the thread.
#8
Jerry Entin
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:15
After Ray's lesson I have finally got the picture up. However Ray himself did it for me. The number 44 in front is Frank Monise. I am behind him in Ol Yaller 2 which as they say Frank beat me like a drum. Those Lotus 23's were very quick. Dr. Bill Molle also had one but his was with a smaller engine. I remember Rick Muther also had one. Al Cadrobbi is in the Porsche followed by Bob Challman who by the way was a very nice guy. If I remember right Bob was very tall like 6'2 or so.The fastest Lotus 23 around was George Follmer who had a Porsche engine in his. John Morton also had a Lotus 23 but I believe he got his after 1963.
#9
Ray Bell
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Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:04
Another picture from Jerry... he can describe what's happening and who's involved...
#10
Jerry Entin
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Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:12
Thanks Ray for helping me with this picture. Mike this is from a track called Willow Springs and it is in 1967. I just wanted to show you more lotus 23's. One of them is Doc Molle. I am in the McLaren in front. It was raining that day. I had to start last because I wasn't there for qualifing. I finished 2nd. This race was won by Jim Adam's in Chic Vandagriff's McLaren.
#11
Frank S
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Posted 10 July 2006 - 21:04
Was that Willow on March 10, 1968? I was there recruiting entries
for the Tijuana races.
It was a miserable day, rain and sleet and the constant cold wind.
Next week's weather was perfect at the Playas
for the Tijuana races.
It was a miserable day, rain and sleet and the constant cold wind.
Next week's weather was perfect at the Playas
#12
Jerry Entin
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Posted 10 July 2006 - 21:43
Frank I thought it was earlier than that. I bought the McLaren I am in for my brother Hershey to use for his driving school. Jay Hills was there with his car and wouldn't run because of the rain. I started last like I said but was held up for a while. Probably should have forced the issue and tried to catch Jim Adams sooner. Dr. Bill Molle is right behind me. He was my dentist and a great friend.
#13
Frank S
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Posted 11 July 2006 - 01:20
You're probably right. A fair portion of that kind of stuff breaks loose
and floats around in my memory these days.
I have a couple of cherished Dr Bill emails from the time
he sent me his "Then There Was Us" article.
and floats around in my memory these days.
I have a couple of cherished Dr Bill emails from the time
he sent me his "Then There Was Us" article.
#14
Mike Summers
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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:58
Just as a short follow up, I have talked to nearly a dozen or so people over the last couple of weeks regarding Clarks Riverside 23. The bottom line, at the moment, is that no one knows exactly which 23 it was or where it went. Nearly all agree that Bob Challman was the entrant and probably the car owner. At least for that race. Numbers vary a bit, but it seems at least 5 or 6 23's came through Challmans hands. And 43 years ago, no one really cared who drove who's car and what serial number it was.
One name I am still tracking down is Rich Erickson, he worked with the Arcerio team. Anyone know where or how to contact him?
How about anyone who may have crewed for Challman?
Thanks to all who have replied to my original post...................Jerry Entin! Very cool, thanks for replying...........very fast and very well known race driver.
If anyone can shed some more light on the subject, post away!! I love a good mystery.
Mike Summers
One name I am still tracking down is Rich Erickson, he worked with the Arcerio team. Anyone know where or how to contact him?
How about anyone who may have crewed for Challman?
Thanks to all who have replied to my original post...................Jerry Entin! Very cool, thanks for replying...........very fast and very well known race driver.
If anyone can shed some more light on the subject, post away!! I love a good mystery.
Mike Summers
