48 replies to this topic

[IAM]

I'm at it again, only this time I am building a 1:12 scale model of the Lotus 72C for production, and I have a license from Classic Team Lotus to do it.

I took a trip to the CTL shop in England back in April this year and was able to get some of the original drawings for the car. Unfortunately, there was no 72C for ref pictures. Only a 72E (which is chassis no. 72/5, that started out as a 72C) but the rear suspension is different.

Clive chapman has not responded to my request for someone with a 72C so I can get some photo's.

So I'm looking for help again in the photographic dept, for ref pictures preferably of the rear end and suspension. I have it pretty well mapped out, but pictures would be a tremendous help.

If you want to see some of the progress http://macsmodeling....m/Lotus 72C.htm

Any help would be greatly appreciated and acknoledged in the kit instructions.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

[uwe_sautter]

Hi Ian,
which 72C you mean exactly or better which driver and race?
I have many photos from Lotus 72 cars and I think I can help you.
best regards
Uwe

[Ruairidh]

Have you looked at Michael Oliver's excellent book: "Lotus 72"? From that it looks like 72/3 and 72/4 had been (in 2003) restored to 72C spec and were, at that time, owned by a Japanese collector by the name of Fakuda and the Foulston family respectively.

[IAM]

Hi Uwe,

http://macsmodeling....y_04_JR.002.jpg Here is the car I'm actually basing the model on, as raced by Jochen Rindt at Germany.

What I need is pictures around the rear of the car, showing suspension, as I believe the 72C only has one radius arm each side which increased to two when in changed to the 72D. However, all photographs will be received with thanks and appreciation.

Thanks.
Ian

[IAM]

Thanks Ruairidh,

I have a few books including the one you mention. I will have to take another look at what you are talking about.

Thank you!
Ian

[Gary C]

I don't think 72/4 has ever been restored.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Gary C
I don't think 72/4 has ever been restored.

Michael Oliver has 72/4 debuting in 72C spec at the Oulton Park Giold Cup in 1970 with its last race in Mexico that same year. When the Fittipaldi's acquired it in 1972 the factory repainted it and rebuilt it to make it look as close as possible to Emmo's world championship car. When it was acquired by the Foulstons around 1965 the car was in a "pretty poor state and Foulston had to spend a considerable sum of money to get it running again".

[Gary C]

Fair enough. And that would be 1985, I think

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Gary C
Fair enough. And that would be 1985, I think

Yep shurely shome mistake their.

[IAM]

OK! There's a name I recognise. "Mary Foulston", Clive Chapman had mentioned she had one, but as he (Clive) does not know me yet, he was reluctant to introduce me.

Does anyone here know her and/or would be willing to put a word in for me to be able to communicate with her?

This project is very important to me. http://macsmodeling....m/Lotus 72C.htm Look there and you can see what detail I am trying to achieve with this model.

Thanks again!

Ian

[JB Miltonian]

There is a pretty good detail picture of the rear suspension (single radius arm per side) in Automobile Year 1970, page 161, but it's right next to the spine on the book, and AY's tend to fall apart at the spine if you're not careful. Do you know if you've seen that picture?

[Macca]

On the basis that the 72C is the 1970 car with antidive and antisquat removed, and the 72D appeared at Monaco in 1971 with lower-profile tyres & different suspension; here are a couple of sources I have found:

1970 car, but I don't know which suspension it has; single radius arm anyway:
http://pboursin.club...ist/lotus72.gif

1971 Race of Champions at Brands:
http://citadecampeon.../001/report.htm

Paul M

[IAM]

Thanks JB, unfortunately I don't have a copy of Automobile 1970. I will have to try and find someone with a copy I can look at.

Paul M. Thank you! Every little bit helps.

Mac

[JB Miltonian]

Mac: It turns out that I have two copies of AY 1970, so I took a chance on laying one of them flat onto the scanner. The caption for this picture reads:

"Rear suspension of the Lotus 72 in its latest 1970 form with the dampers mounted at an angle. Originally the rear dampers were tucked inside the exhaust pipes in an almost vertical position where, not surprisingly, the fluid boiled. The radius arms, one per side, are attached to the brackets which bolt the Ford-Cosworth engine to the monocoque. The upper and lower suspension links are of the wishbone type, normal at base and reversed at the top. One compound torsion bar is visible under brake disc."

[JB Miltonian]

Mac: In case it might interest you, here is part of another cutaway illustration, this one by Bill Bennett, printed in Sports Car Graphic, July 1970. I don't know if this is the version of the 72 you are looking for, but it appears to have only one radius arm. I can scan and send the entire drawing to you if you are interested.

[macoran]

Somehow they all look a bit different don't they ?

[macoran]

Hello Loti fans,
Anyone have a photo from a very low angle of the front of a 72 ?

I am wondering why both the Hatton and the Bennett cutaways show such a “sudden” and “severe” WAISTING ( if that’s the word for it ) around the front suspension…….. see the sudden lines curving just ahead and behind the tyres.

It just appears odd to me as the rest of the car is quite......straight-lined...... if you get the gist of my ramblings.

[IAM]

Marc they are great. They are actually all of the earlt 1970 72C with the roll bar connected to the back of the engine and prior to the intake scoop. But of great help just the same.

email me at mac@macsmodeling.com and I will send some pictures of a 72 front end it's a 72E does that matter?

Mac

[IAM]

Sorry about that JB. That picture from the book is great! Thank you.

You say you have two books? Do you want to sell me the one you folded flat to scan?

Mac

[macoran]

This little cutaway is of a 72B
Can anyone help with a larger scan ?

[John-w]

Hello,

here are some photos from my actual project:
Lotus 72C, Jochen Rindt, Zandvoort 1970, Model Factory Hiro, Scale 1/20th.











The base for this kit was the Lotus 72D, because the included parts for the
front and rear suspension as well as the nose are not correct for the 72C.

I hope to finish the model soon.

John-w

[Bloggsworth]

Have you resolved your windscreen material yet? If not:

A couple of thoughts; one, polycarbonate is hydroscopic, so you should be able to dye it yellow after drying it out in an airing cupboard for about a week!. Actually, 3 thoughts. You don't mention what thickness you require, so I assume in the region of 400microns/0.015", which is packaging grade - Ring round the packaging sheet suppliers for samples for the "Transparent boxes in which you plan to sell your models" (likely to be PVC, PETa or PETg; or even old fashioned celluloid). Ski goggles are made from UVEX, so replacement "lenses" are easily available, and available in all sorts of colours, but if only transparent is available, it too is hygroscopic and susceptible to dying. And there's more.... Architectural and industrial modelmakers are a useful source of offcuts, particularly if you can offer a quid pro quo, as you clearly have considerable skills they could use.

I can't recall the generic name for UVEX, but in its raw sheet for it smells like camel's piss, I think it is Cabulite.


All these plastics are thermoformable so, if drying them, don't get them too hot as they start to distort over about 60C, and ideally the PC and UVEX should be dried by forced air convection for a few hours, but this is usually impractical in a semi-domestic setting so lengthy drying is the alternative - remember, the drier you get them, the better the uptake of dye. About 7% would be the uptake, so strong dye over a couple of days.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 16 January 2011 - 10:53.

[John-w]

Have you resolved your windscreen material yet? If not:

Hello,
I will use the included windscreen, thanks.


Can anybody help me to identify this part/cable on the right site of the rollbar?



Here is a photo during assembly my model.



thanks

John-w

[gablet]

Hello,
I will use the included windscreen, thanks.


Can anybody help me to identify this part/cable on the right site of the rollbar?



thanks

John-w

That cable worked the battery cutoff switch.
Bye,
Gab

[MCS]

I am in awe (as ever) John-w.

But why such a messily riveted horizontal fence on the nose?



Edit: Or, looking back (and thinking about it) was it actually a strip of lead?

Edited by MCS, 20 January 2011 - 22:08.

[scran]

Currently reading the book on Rindt. Am in the 1970 chapter - will check and see if anything in there migth help.

[John-w]

Hello,

thanks all for your help, here are some photos from the finished model.













John-w

[Alan Cox]

Lovely stuff, John. And I love the surrounding scenery that you include in all of your photos which really sets off the subjects beautifully. If any of you have never visited John's website, I recommend that you do.

[JacnGille]

Very, very nice work!

[rallen]

Just wanted to say that this is beautiful John. Very impressive thanks for showing.

[ff1600]

Great work, I wish my models looked that good.

[MikeM]

Hi John, that looks excellent. I also have one and doubt if it will look as good. I would be interested to know how you have done the "Gold Leaf" decal though. I have not found any one making decals and while I can done images I'm struggling to make decent decals myself.
Many thanks
Mike

[charles r]

Absolutely mouthwatering John, as with all your efforts - a joy to behold.

[John-w]

Hello,

 

here are two beauties

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

 

John-w

Edited by John-w, 10 June 2019 - 12:55.

[Alan Cox]

Hello,
here are two beauties
Lotus 72C R2 and R4

Fabulous, as usual, John  

[alansart]

Hello,

 

here are two beauties

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

 

 

John-w

 

That's amazing.

 

Obviously Jochen was using his tyres a bit harder

[JacnGille]

[Cargo]

Hello,

 

here are two beauties

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

 

John-w

Jeepers!! Stunning stuff!       Well done.       

[Slurp1955]

Absolutely superb. 72 R4 takes me right back to Oulton '70, and its tyres are spot on of course, Hill only put a couple of laps on them!  JohnP

[alansart]

Absolutely superb. 72 R4 takes me right back to Oulton '70, and its tyres are spot on of course, Hill only put a couple of laps on them!  JohnP

 

....although Rindt raced on slicks at the Oulton Gold Cup and had the little airbox that's on R4. 

[Michael Oliver]

Alan, I think the Rindt car is shown in its Zandvoort spec, it is not intended to be a representation of the car raced by Rindt at the Gold Cup... The clue is the little 'winglets' added to the rear wing and the rear-facing rollbar brace, as well as the competition number. The winglets were dropped as they were found to be illegal, as were the sidepods, which had been widened during testing to improve cooling. The sidepods weren't changed until Austria, IIRC, by which time the title had effectively been won. Makes you think what kind of a fuss would have been made about this in 2013! There wasn't even a protest - just a quiet 'word in the ear' from Ken Tyrrell that if it wasn't sorted he would feel obliged to protest...ahh, those were indeed the days.

[Slurp1955]

..... and 72 R4 is modelled from the Friday practice at the Gold Cup, when it was soaking wet most of the day. Re-reading the race report from Autosport, Graham's practice sessions were hampered by........ "deflating tyres!"  JohnP  

[bill p]

Hello,

 

here are two beauties

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

 

John-w

 

Fantastic

[John-w]

..... and 72 R4 is modelled from the Friday practice at the Gold Cup, when it was soaking wet most of the day. Re-reading the race report from Autosport, Graham's practice sessions were hampered by........ "deflating tyres!"  JohnP  

Yes, theR4 is modelled from Friday, because on this day the valve cover was aluminium, if my references are correct

 

 

John-w

[alansart]

Yes, theR4 is modelled from Friday, because on this day the valve cover was aluminium, if my references are correct

 

 

 

John-w

 

John, your skill and attention to detail is amazing.

[Slurp1955]

Both models are superb John. The Friday at Oulton was my first ever day at a circuit event, spent mostly stood under a tree near Deer Leap. Previously I'd been taken to Shelsey Walsh few times by my mate's Dad, Shelsey being the most local venue to our homes in Kidderminster. The Saturday of The Gold Cup was different altogether, meeting Jochen and Graham Hill at the bottom of a ladder up to a Commentary Post opposite the Pits. The 72 is the greatest of all F1 cars, the best looking and these two models are in the most spectacular liveries. I loved the GLTL paint job but the brief tenure of R/4 under Rob Walker is even better, absolutely beautiful and you have done it more than justice. Funnily enough I never took to the John Player Special livery, but did see Ronnie win at Monza in my first GP abroad in '74 in 72R/8. What a design it was, with its clone the McLaren M23 picking up the mantle for another two seasons after that. My one regret, as a fifteen year-old grammar school oik, I didn't take a camera to the Gold Cup! Thanks for the pics and best regards JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 11 October 2013 - 05:26.

[Tim Murray]

Interesting that Graham obviously had difficulty seeing anything in the wing mirrors, which took a while to sort out. As John has said, his model shows the car in its Friday configuration at Oulton, with 'standard' wing mirrors mounted on either side of the cockpit surround. Later on in that weekend the r/h mirror had been raised slightly:

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Monza both mirrors had been raised:

 

 

http://img205.images...5/6207/1ms5.jpg

 

 

and for the last three GPs it had the mirrors cantilevered well outward and upward:

 

 

http://8w.forix.com/ghill/gh-mex70.jpg

 

 

I don't recall anyone else having similar rearward visibility problems with the 72.

Edited by Tim Murray, 10 October 2013 - 17:44.

[Michael Oliver]

Interesting that Graham obviously had difficulty seeing anything in the wing mirrors, which took a while to sort out. As John has said, his model shows the car in its Friday configuration at Oulton, with 'standard' wing mirrors mounted on either side of the cockpit surround. Later on in that weekend the r/h mirror had been raised slightly:

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Monza both mirrors had been raised:

 

 

http://img205.images...5/6207/1ms5.jpg

 

 

and for the last three GPs it had the mirrors cantilevered well outward and upward:

 

 

http://8w.forix.com/ghill/gh-mex70.jpg

 

 

I don't recall anyone else having similar rearward visibility problems with the 72.

 

Most people who got behind the wheel of a Lotus 72 didn't need to worry about anything catching them up...

[mfd]

Most people who got behind the wheel of a Lotus 72 didn't need to worry about anything catching them up...

If they (NGH & RRCW) expected Rindt type performances, the Walker car didn't deliver