47 replies to this topic

[GreenMachine]

In one of the threads on this forum, a poster complained about finding the staff of s/h booksops to be rude and unhelpful, or something to that effect.

I cannot go along with such generalisation, for general or specialised second hand bookshops. That is not my experience over the last 30 years, dealing with s/h bookshops here in Oz and overseas.

In fact, over about a decade or so through the 70's, I had a very rewarding and pleasurable relationship with the proprietor of (I think) Bohemia Bookshop in Hastings UK. It was very '84 Charing Cross Road' , Frank knew his stuff, wrote chatty, informative and helpful letters, and sought out stuff for me. As a result, I have a great number of books I may not have got otherwise, or as soon. In return, Frank ended up with a goodly amount of my disposable income, and yes, I was always happy with his prices.

About a year or so after I first contacted him, he wrote me about one of his other Australian clients, who had just visited him and who was very involved in resoration and aviation history. (Small world dept - turned out my wife worked with his ) That led to many years of Saturday afternoons working on the resoration of aircraft from the Australian War Memorial collection, and friendships and learning. Overall, I consider I owe Frank big time.

What are other people's experiences?

Has the internet and ebay done in the 'friendly helpful second hand bookseller'?

[Mark A]

Never found them rude (but Motorbooks in Oxford was never exactly friendly when I visited there).

However never exactly found them overly helpful either. It always struck me that unless it was on the shelves and they could sell you it there and then they weren't interested.

A few years back I enquired about a particular book I was interested in buying, none of the usual sellers had it in stock, and it was out of print so I needed a 2nd hand one.

As there was a well known car book shop near where I work I spoke to them and they put me in their enquiry list and I was told they would call me when they found a copy. That was the last converstaion I had with them. I noticed that they were selling a copy in their stock lists a couple of months later, which annoyed me quite a bit and I now will not buy anything from them. I'd rather travel a lot further or buy mail order.

[Gary Davies]

Ha! Can't resist these two, very different, bookshop recollections. Until, I think, about 4 years ago, there was a second hand bookshop in Old Milton Road, New Milton, Hants with a huge quantity of books on display, all very higgledy-piggledy. No problem in that respect but then there was the owner... Upon entry, he would descend on the hapless intending browser, ask them in quite fierce terms what they were looking for and if a specific title (Eg, Ellen the Aardvaark goes quantity surveying) was not immediately forthcoming, he would smartly indicate the door along with an injunction that browsing was NOT encouraged! He earned quite a reputation in the district. Passed on now, I believe...

Right at the other end of the scale, may I commend to Chiltern residents a bookshop in which I spent many hundreds of hours as a lad. The Cottage Bookshop in Elm Road, Tylers Green. I believe it's still there and still a most absorbing rabbit warren. Locals of around my vintage (a 1948 model!) may remember its former long time proprietor, Mr. Baddeley. A more charming and gentle character you'd go a long way to encounter. RIP, Mr. Baddeley, such pleasant memories.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Vanwall
Ha! Can't resist these two, very different, bookshop recollections. Until, I think, about 4 years ago, there was a second hand bookshop in Old Milton Road, New Milton, Hants with a huge quantity of books on display, all very higgledy-piggledy. No problem in that respect but then there was the owner... Upon entry, he would descend on the hapless intending browser, ask them in quite fierce terms what they were looking for and if a specific title (Eg, Ellen the Aardvaark goes quantity surveying) was not immediately forthcoming, he would smartly indicate the door along with an injunction that browsing was NOT encouraged! He earned quite a reputation in the district. Passed on now, I believe...


.

Did you dare ask if he had Olsen's standard book of British birds (the expurgated version without the robin and the gannet)?

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by GreenMachine
In one of the threads on this forum, a poster complained about finding the staff of s/h booksops to be rude and unhelpful, or something to that effect.............................

Has the internet and ebay done in the 'friendly helpful second hand bookseller'?

Yes unfortunately, they have been killed off by both ,just where has service gone?????????????????

[simonlewisbooks]

Speaking as a second hand motoring book seller for the past 22 years - the rise of eBay and the web were certainly strong contributing factors in making me revert to mail order when my last lease expired in 2001.

Of course the overheads of ever spiralling rent, business rates and insurance were also major factors
so it's probably not quite fair to heap all the blame on the web and eBay for the decline in second hand book shops. A large part of it is down to the guys in Downing St.....

I do miss the familiar faces and friendly banter - you simply cannot replace that with emails. Equally I miss the ocassions when someone would park an exotic car outside the shop . One time I reverted to being a schoolkid and actually asked for (and got) a ride in a customer's F40.... well you don't often get a chance like that!

I also miss being able to recommend a good book to a customer who isn't quite sure which title they are actually looking for. That's always been one of the more enjoyable parts of the business but Ebay and the web make things too specific for that situation to crop up very often these days.

Thankfully I still get to meet and converse with real enthusiasts at places like Shelsley or Prescott when running the bookstall. This always reminds me why I never got a better paid 'proper' job !


Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Speaking as a second hand motoring book seller for the past 22 years - the rise of eBay and the web were certainly strong contributing factors in making me revert to mail order when my last lease expired in 2001.

Of course the overheads of ever spiralling rent, business rates and insurance were also major factors
so it's probably not quite fair to heap all the blame on the web and eBay for the decline in second hand book shops. A large part of it is down to the guys in Downing St.....

I do miss the familiar faces and friendly banter - you simply cannot replace that with emails. Equally I miss the ocassions when someone would park an exotic car outside the shop . One time I reverted to being a schoolkid and actually asked for (and got) a ride in a customer's F40.... well you don't often get a chance like that!

I also miss being able to recommend a good book to a customer who isn't quite sure which title they are actually looking for. That's always been one of the more enjoyable parts of the business but Ebay and the web make things too specific for that situation to crop up very often these days.

Thankfully I still get to meet and converse with real enthusiasts at places like Shelsley or Prescott when running the bookstall. This always reminds me why I never got a better paid 'proper' job !


Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

I know exactly what you are saying, i was self employed for 22 yrs+ until illness got me............................

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hi , sitting in Denmark ,I cannot get much personal experience. Keeping to the thread of 2.hand sellers , I believe my deliverant for many years was not a such ,but dissappointed me lately in such a way that I changed ,and so far I am fully satisfied with Motor Books ! A couple of others I have tried and absolutely with no complaints, Abe ,Simon Lewis and Collectors Car Books.
Regards Bjørn

PS I have been to London a couple of times and do rember more than once a terrible service in one of the shops!(The same each time)

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
PS I have been to London a couple of times and do rember more than once a terrible service in one of the shops!(The same each time)

During one of my sister's visits to the UK, I asked her to get me particular motor racing book that was new on the market at the time. She went out of her way to locate a specialist shop in London. Upon her arrival the owner/manager shut the door in her face, telling her that he is closing shop for the day and that she must come back the following day. She explained to him that she can't return, since she'll be flying home the next morning. He had no empathy and closed the shop. So much for service...

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Hieronymus


During one of my sister's visits to the UK, I asked her to get me particular motor racing book that was new on the market at the time. She went out of her way to locate a specialist shop in London. Upon her arrival the owner/manager shut the door in her face, telling her that he is closing shop for the day and that she must come back the following day. She explained to him that she can't return, since she'll be flying home the next morning. He had no empathy and closed the shop. So much for service...

Our old friend at Motor Books in St Martins Court?

[Hieronymus]

Ian

No, I have got no idea.

I've never been to London, so I do not know the bookshops in that city. My sister just told me that she given the name of a specialist transport/motoring bookshop in the city. She was quite furious at me upon her return, telling me I wasted her time and the fee of a train ticket. She could have done an extra two or three hours shopping, rather wasting it on my "silly interests"...

[Bjorn Kjer]

Ian is that why you call yourself "senior" , do you think Hieronymus sister was there too ?

[Hieronymus]

Simon's shop is darn good...not only for second hand books, but for all sorts of racing memoribilia. Done some business with him in the past and received very patient and good service. I just regret the fact that he is not located here in my country, otherwise I would have guaranteed him a part of my income every month. Postage costs from foreign countries are the big killer for us in the more remote regions of the world. Then our tax man also wants his share, even for second hand books one purchase from abroad!!!!!

[dretceterini]

Over the years I have found some substantial bargains in generic "second hand" bookstores..

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by dretceterini
Over the years I have found some substantial bargains in generic "second hand" bookstores..

But not as often as we used to get!!
During the seventies I worked as a Flight Attendant for CPAir and flew all over the world. The first thing I would do upon arriving in a foreign city was check out all the local book stores-new and used; I got some wonderful bargains! I recall a pile of copies of "The Alfa Romeo 1750" by Fusi being remaindered for $1.00 each! Stupidly I only bought one.... Now however, every used bookstore is on line and checks the 'value' of each book-good for them, bad for us.
The comments about service or lack of it I suspect is confined to the stores in England:- service is still an unknown feature in most UK businesses.

[Paul Parker]

The posts by Hieronymus and Ian Senior concerning the unhelpful attitude of a specialist motoring bookshop in London can surely not be the current Motor Books who I always find very friendly and welcoming.

However if this incident took place some years ago I can well believe the then manager (now deceased) might have done this. No names, no packdrill but he could be awkward although I got on well with him. However he did not suffer the general public willingly and to be fair he was far from well.

[green-blood]

maybe Simon should establish a loyalty card system for some of us!!!!!!!!

there are no motoring or transport specific book shops here in Ireland, I've often wondered if it could be a away out of my horrid employment but I just dont think there is the specific market here. As such I am endebted to ebay and the specialist dealers in the UK who have supported my collection building over the past 10 years..... fingers crossed my parents have picked up on my hints for my 30th next month, dealers, watch your inboxes

[Don Speekingleesh]

For the average Irish bookshop the only motorsport related books likely to be carried are Irvine's (auto)biography, F1 For Dummies, maybe Life At The Limit, and the Stephen Davison photo books (well worth buying if you like bike road racing).

[green-blood]

I know, I know, occassionly I get a shock in the big Dublin retailers, I got Eoin Young's McLaren Memories and the Ramierez book on the one day!!

[Collombin]

Originally posted by Mark A
Never found them rude (but Motorbooks in Oxford was never exactly friendly when I visited there).

Interesting - I have only been there once but was quite impressed. Whilst putting one of my purchases into the bag they noticed a small tear on the cover, and instantly knocked a couple of quid off the price, with no prompting from me whatsoever - I hadn't even noticed the tear, and it was very minor anyway.

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Equally I miss the ocassions when someone would park an exotic car outside the shop . One time I reverted to being a schoolkid and actually asked for (and got) a ride in a customer's F40.... well you don't often get a chance like that!

When I met you a few weeks ago to buy some old Indy yearbooks, for some reason my Ford Focus didn't get that kind of reaction.....

[Don Speekingleesh]

Originally posted by green-blood
I know, I know, occassionly I get a shock in the big Dublin retailers, I got Eoin Young's McLaren Memories and the Ramierez book on the one day!!

Haven't seen Young's book. Got the Ramierez one alright (reading it at the moment), have also come across The Last Road Race, and Bugatti Queen.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
The posts by Hieronymus and Ian Senior concerning the unhelpful attitude of a specialist motoring bookshop in London can surely not be the current Motor Books who I always find very friendly and welcoming.

However if this incident took place some years ago I can well believe the then manager (now deceased) might have done this. No names, no packdrill but he could be awkward although I got on well with him. However he did not suffer the general public willingly and to be fair he was far from well.

So, some perspective there then. And your second paragraph may very well explain my own personal experiences.

But what of the individual who ran the place in Woburn, that relocated to Silverstone a few years ago - dare I ask?

[Bjorn Kjer]

Ian Senior , I read this thread for the 3rd time now and each time I get a laugh that holds on a while........how could you know............thanks and regards , Bjørn

[Mark A]

Originally posted by E.B.


Interesting - I have only been there once but was quite impressed. Whilst putting one of my purchases into the bag they noticed a small tear on the cover, and instantly knocked a couple of quid off the price, with no prompting from me whatsoever - I hadn't even noticed the tear, and it was very minor anyway.

It's been a few years since I visited that shop as I always felt the Car books were a distraction from all the train stuff.


I've always found Chaters very good especially when I ordered a book which was delayed and the publishers sent out a sorry to those who pre-ordered and Chaters sent it on, despite the fact i hadn't even paid for the book yet, and I got the number I requested. Again it's a few years since I went to Motorbooks in London but never had any issues there, although I remember it as being a very bizarre layout.

Collectors car books I used to buy from reasonably often until being messed about (see 2nd post).

Nowadays I usually buy from either Chaters or direct from the publisher.

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by David Birchall


But not as often as we used to get!!
During the seventies I worked as a Flight Attendant for CPAir and flew all over the world. The first thing I would do upon arriving in a foreign city was check out all the local book stores-new and used; I got some wonderful bargains! I recall a pile of copies of "The Alfa Romeo 1750" by Fusi being remaindered for $1.00 each! Stupidly I only bought one.... Now however, every used bookstore is on line and checks the 'value' of each book-good for them, bad for us.
The comments about service or lack of it I suspect is confined to the stores in England:- service is still an unknown feature in most UK businesses.

Very true; especially with it so easy to find a title on the internet, and a bookseller getting an idea of what the book is worth. I still find an occassional deal.

Same story with toys and miniatures.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I've had unfortunate internet experiences with Pook's (rather rudely dismissed a generous offer for a very expensive book...I bought it elsewhere for even less....his copy is still in inventory) and Horton (completely ignored several inquiries about another four-figure book), but I've found Collectors Car Books to be very responsive and helpful, and I just had a very successful transaction with Simon Lewis (The Colonel's Ferraris , by our own DCN) a few weeks ago.....there will be more in the future, Simon!

Jack

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by green-blood
maybe Simon should establish a loyalty card system for some of us!!!!!!!!

there are no motoring or transport specific book shops here in Ireland,

Oh lord... and to think I nearly moved to Galway in 1999. Rampant taxes, daft house prices, Jordanmania at a high and no proper bookshops? Thank God the company I was talking to went bust.;)

[Don Speekingleesh]

There were plenty of F1 shops in those days (only a few left now though), but they carried the same books you'd get in a mainstream bookshop.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Simon's shop is darn good...not only for second hand books, but for all sorts of racing memoribilia. Done some business with him in the past and received very patient and good service. I just regret the fact that he is not located here in my country, otherwise I would have guaranteed him a part of my income every month.

Many thanks Hieronymus , green-blood and DB (sorry I didn't ask for a ride in the Focus...) for your kind words. Just logged in and checked this thread. Much appreciated.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books

www.simonlewis.com

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mark A


It's been a few years since I visited that shop as I always felt the Car books were a distraction from all the train stuff.

The London branch of Motor Books has changed a lot in the past few years. It used to be run by a grumpy, elderly bloke who was at best indifferent to customers and didn't seem terribly well up on anything he stocked. These days it seems to be run by a genial Australian and his younger sidekick who are constantly talking cars and racing. They're clearly far more interested in cars than railways (although as someone with interests in that direction myself, I must say that the railway selection is pretty dire if you're interested in diesel traction -- give me an Ian Allan shop any time!), go out of their way to help customers, and the place has an entirely different atmosphere now. Anyone who used to be put off by the old regime there should at least poke their head round the door to see how it's changed.

[green-blood]

As I said my 30th is on the way, I'm thinking of a couple of days in London with my ever suffering better half, what shops, new and old could be browsed in say an afternoon. When you take postage Vs ryanair flight it's pretty even!!

So 1 afternoon in London, what bookshop route would you take??

[roger ellis]

Just go straight to the South Street, Isleworth premises of Chater & Scott, that would be my advice.

Fantastic stock, the staff are patient, knowledgeable, and helpful with browsers; you could easily spend hours there & spend lots of ££££s.

Might be best to go on your own ;)

[Paul Parker]

In reply to MCS, said person relocated to Silverstone circuit a few years ago.

[PRD]

Originally posted by roger ellis
Just go straight to the South Street, Isleworth premises of Chater & Scott, that would be my advice.

Fantastic stock, the staff are patient, knowleable, and helpful with browsers; you could easily spend hours there & spend lots of ££££s.

Might be best to go on your own ;)

Bit of trek from Central London though well worth while.

If time is short then you'd have to make do with Motorbooks. Its behind Wyndhams theatre about a minute from Leicester Square tube

[Paul Parker]

Sorry MCS I did not read your post properly, brainfade I'm afraid.

What really irks booksellers in general and some very much so are punters who come in, carelessly thumb (literally) their way through often valuable books and then don't buy them. Personally I always insist on buying mint books rather than something that has been opened a dozen or more times, often without due care. Creased pages, damaged dust jackets, sticky fingers, eating ice creams, fruit, sweets and more I've seen it all in bookshops.

Just imagine if this was your stock, paid for by you and as a result of thoughtless and rough handling you cannot sell it. This explains no doubt your query about said individual and whilst I do not condone hostility toward punters, if you've ever had to deal with (some of) them on a daily basis, year after year, it is not so surprising. Indeed I'm amazed there's not more of it.

Essentially this problem is customer created and is an extention of the British culture of reading magazines/papers in newsagent shops, often again thumbing etc., blocking access to real buyers and then replacing them on the shelves. If you try this on the continent, especially Switzerland, you are often asked to either buy the journal or leave the shop.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
In reply to MCS, said person relocated to Silverstone circuit a few years ago.

I know. Pity his manners didn't improve on the way...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by PRD


Bit of trek from Central London though well worth while.

If time is short then you'd have to make do with Motorbooks. Its behind Wyndhams theatre about a minute from Leicester Square tube

From Motor Books I'd also make a point of looking in at Foyle's further up CCR (I've posted about this before) which is a huge general bookshop, and there's a very good model shop (St Martin's Accessories) nearby too.

You're not that far from Alex Reade (now on Regent Street) for paintings, models, and the odd book too.

[soubriquet]

Originally posted by Paul Parker


Essentially this problem is customer created and is an extention of the British culture of reading magazines/papers in newsagent shops, often again thumbing etc., blocking access to real buyers and then replacing them on the shelves. If you try this on the continent, especially Switzerland, you are often asked to either buy the journal or leave the shop.

Errr, no. You should see the lines of readers in Japanese book/magazine shops.

If the customers (the people paying their money) are the problem then maybe a change of occupation is called for. There is a good reason why people buy Japanese cars (not British and not Swiss). It is because the sellers respect the buyers.

[rgsuspsa]

Originally posted by soubriquet
[B

There is a good reason why people buy Japanese cars (not British and not Swiss). It is because the sellers respect the buyers. [/B]

Respect? Not hardly when replacement parts and service are astronomically priced.
The original vehicle sale simply binds the buyer to subsequent pricing abuse by the manufacturer.

[Vitesse2]

Paul is dead right re readers in bookshops. I was in the trade for many years and have seen it all (and more). One guy used to come in every lunch time Mon-Fri and stand reading for his entire lunch hour. Never bought a bloody thing, ate his sandwiches while reading and sometimes even used to turn down the page corners to mark where he'd got to. Then there are the ones who come in with notebooks and use the shop as a reference library (or even ask you if they can borrow a pen and paper to copy something!!), the ones who sit on piles of books or low shelf displays, people who leave their brats in the children's section while they shop in peace in Sainsburys ..... we even had one nutter who would tear the top corner of paperback front covers if they showed more than a hint of nudity (female or male - he or she wasn't choosy in his/her prudishness)!

[Arjan de Roos]

Found a pretty good second hand bookstore Damokles. I ordered some books last month and found them to give a very swift service. Prices of many books favorable me thinks.

 

https://damokles.nu/...100&groupid=230

[Doug Nye]

I believe that John Lello was the too-often unhelpful old git presiding at St Martin's Lane...

 

DCN

[moffspeed]

A thread resurrected from the year in which "Diana" the whale swam up the River Thames and, despite our best efforts (and a plastic bucket), succumbed. Impressed. Shock, horror bird flu was also identified in Scotland during 2006 but all the talk of a pandemic rightfully turned out to be nonsense. That will never happen.

 

I watched "Notting Hill" the film for the 37th time over Christmas, this is probably an active portrayal of the cuddly book-seller and the vexatious customer. I've never had a bad experience at any static motor sport bookshop or trade fair stand, although Julia Roberts never rocks up. Special mention of West Countryman & very effective ex-hillclimber Spencer Elton - Westbury's answer to Daniel Thacker.

Edited by moffspeed, 05 January 2021 - 20:45.

[Bob Riebe]

My father spoke with the gent who started the Motorbooks International, or what ever name it had at the time, when it was just a little hole in the wall book store in an area of Minneapolis what was far, far from commercial.

He was an absolute gentleman and a scholar.

[proviz]

My father spoke with the gent who started the Motorbooks International, or what ever name it had at the time, when it was just a little hole in the wall book store in an area of Minneapolis what was far, far from commercial.

He was an absolute gentleman and a scholar.

 

Is that Tom Warth you're talking about? Or did his time come later?

Edited by proviz, 06 January 2021 - 09:36.

[d j fox]

I believe that John Lello was the too-often unhelpful old git presiding at St Martin's Lane...

DCN

He of the “Plus Fours”? Always snarled at me for just browsing I remember one the chaps at Chaters saying that he was their best salesman by driving folk away from Motor Books to Chaters!

[GreenMachine]

He of the “Plus Fours”? Always snarled at me for just browsing I remember one the chaps at Chaters saying that he was their best salesman by driving folk away from Motor Books to Chaters!

 

... and so we come full circle.

 

I was surprised and amused when this modest little thread emerged from its hibernation, and I realised that I was the thread starter     

 

It was a while back now, but IIRC a comment just like yours was the catalyst for my first post!

 

While I am here, a big shout out to Alexander Fax Booksellers in Canberra, for good stock (WW1/2 military mainly but not exclusively), decent prices and helpful service.

[Bob Riebe]

Is that Tom Warth you're talking about? Or did his time come later?

It was Mr. Warth.

Nice gent.