41 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Having hired a crane to help me lift Roger Clark's new book about the Monaco Grand Prix - 1929-1960, I eventually fell upon year 1958.

I was somewhat 'surprised' to see a picture of a streamlined bodyworked Osca trying to qualify for the race.

It transpires that there were 2 of these creatures, driven by Cabianca and Piotti. Both narrowly failed to make the top 16 by a mere 7 seconds or so (although both were quicker than 'Orace Gould!).

Despite having poured over the 1958 season results in order to build a series of slot cars, I have never noticed this car before. Roger produced his book about Oscas (Roger has a book about practically every racing car make....) but there appears to be no mention of this little car therein. Were they ashamed of it?

Does anyone posess any other photos of this very rare piece of racing history?

[Bjorn Kjer]

According to my little old book by David Hodges they were stripped 1,5 litres sports cars. No pics.

PS Any transporters in the books you are talking about?

Regards Bjørn

[Bjorn Kjer]

Having had a quick look in some other books (there is not that much on OSCAs) I did not find more ecxept that they ran a couple of times in F2 ,hence the 1,5 and that was with sportscar bodies.
Lets await some specialists?

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
PS Any transporters in the books you are talking about?
Regards Bjørn

How did I know that Bjørn would add this to his reply :lol:

[roger_valentine]

Piotti at Monaco:

(My first attempt at using this Image Shack business)

[Barry Boor]

Very good, Roger. A nice side view to start my collection. (Prior to attempting a slot car version.)

[Roger Clark]

Cabianca drove a Formula 2 OSCA at a number of Formula 2 races in 1958, Syracuse, Pau and Reims. The OSCA book Barry mentions, (Orsini/Zagari) gives the chassis number as F2/S 1500-1190. He drove the same car in a number of sports-car races and hill climbs, where photographs show that it had a full-width screen and headlights, unlike the car at Monaco. It is possible that it was modified for Monaco.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Cabianca drove a Formula 2 OSCA at a number of Formula 2 races in 1958.

Surely a "sports OSCA at a number of F2 races"?
(I no longer seem to have my Orsini/Zagari to check ;) )

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Surely a "sports OSCA at a number of F2 races"?
(I no longer seem to have my Orsini/Zagari to check ;) )

As far as I know it complied with the F2 regulations.

[D-Type]

I think David's point is that the OSCA was a sports car not a single seater. Because it had a 1.5 litre engine it was eligible for F2 races in similar fashion to people running Porsche 1500RS and Lotus XI sports cars in early F2 races

Barry, you can add the Porsche RS to your field as de Beaufort ran one in Holland and Germany and I think it was the central seater that Barth ran in Germany. And both the 'toothpaste tube' Connaught and the ordinary one appeared in the British GP.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by D-Type
I think David's point is that the OSCA was a sports car not a single seater. Because it had a 1.5 litre engine it was eligible for F2 races in similar fashion to people running Porsche 1500RS and Lotus XI sports cars in early F2 races

Sorry, I forgot -

[Rob29]

58 Monaco was unusual in that almost anything on wheels seems to have been alowed to enter despite not having a bat-in-hells chance of qualifying among the fastest 16.
Must look out for this new book that 'needs a crane to lift' Should go well with my Montjuic one?

[fw07c]

Through recent research I have discovered that the two Osca entered for the 1958 Monaco

Grand Prix but failed to qualify, were based on a model which was designed to be used as

either a sports car or Formula 2 racing car.These were designated F2/S.

The OSCA engine designated 372, was a four-cylinder, originally designed and built for

the 1957 F-2 season. The nomenclature, was the displacement of one cylinder, for a total of

1488cc. Cars built specifically to compete in the F-2 races were designated the F2/S, while

the sport racing model was called simply the FS. Five of the FS cars were built; 1189,

1191, 1192, 1194 and 1196. All were bodied by Morelli.

Model FS 372
Weight 510 kg
Engine type 372
Cylinders 4
Displacement 1490.86cc
Max. power 135 CV @6600 RPM
Distribution DOHC
Carburetors Two Weber 42 DCO3 with electric pump
Transmission four speed ZF + Reverse
Frame Tubular
Brakes Hydraulic drums
Wheeels Borrani
Year 1957
Price new L. 4.800.000 (en 1957)


Anyone who wants to start investigating the history of a particular O.S.C.A. must start with

Luigi Orsini & Franco Zagari´s book titled O.S.C.A. La Rivincita dei Maserati (published by

Giorgio Nada Editore).

[dretceterini]

This is the closest thing OSCA ever built to a real GP car..


http://pg.photos.yah...scd.jpg&.src=ph

[JB Miltonian]

In "Sports Cars Illustrated" August 1958, page 29, in the report on the Monaco GP, there is a small picture of the #52 OSCA following Brabham past the tobacco shop in practice. I would post the picture here, but it's a Jesse Alexander shot, and that seems to be a particular "no-no".

[Bjorn Kjer]

No dretceterini , that was the 4,5 litre!

[Ted Walker]

Barry I have a good shot of the streamlined car in the pits at Rheims. It looks like a normal sports car with an open wheeled nose.

[Barry Boor]

JB, I thought that as long as no financial gain was attempted and full credit was given to the photographer, single images could be posted.

But I'm probably wrong!

Ted, that sounds like a different version to the Monaco car.

[Ted Walker]

Barry. It was that car fitted with a streamlined nose,probably for the high speed Rheims circuit

[Barry Boor]

I wish I had asked you about it on Saturday!

[Ted Walker]

Barry. VSCC Prescott this weekend.Ive just looked in my OSCA box and its still there.

[Barry Boor]

Thanks, Ted, but I'm afraid that is WAY too far to go just to see a photograph.

No interest in watching cars go up hills.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
JB, I thought that as long as no financial gain was attempted and full credit was given to the photographer, single images could be posted.

With permission of the copyright-holder (who might require a fee.... )
It could be argued that although you (and Atlas) are making no financial gain, you are depriving the copyright-holder of possible income

[Barry Boor]

In what way, David?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
In what way, David?

Legally you need permission to post a photo. Imagine if the rights holder would only be willing to grant permission for a payment. Therefore posting sans permission would deprive the rights holder of that payment.

[Barry Boor]

I see!

[Ted Walker]

Surely we cant be going over this again.IF ITS A CREDITED PHOTO IT CANNOT BE POSTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER eg Me,Peter Sachs,Doug Nye,LAT ETC ETC

[Bjorn Kjer]

Risking to get my ears cut off , I ask : Please explain what a credited photo is ?

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by ensign14

Legally you need permission to post a photo. Imagine if the rights holder would only be willing to grant permission for a payment. Therefore posting sans permission would deprive the rights holder of that payment.

The deprivation I had in mind was potential sales of print(s) to customers who wouldn't bother if they could access the image free on the internet

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Barry. VSCC Prescott this weekend.Ive just looked in my OSCA box and its still there.

Please keep it for me Ted.

[Ted Walker]

Will do Roger. Im in the usual place in the orchard by the footbridge.Bjorn,a credited photo has the name of the person who took or supplied it to the publication either written alongside it or in the front or back of the book,magazine etc.

[Roger Clark]

I got this from Ted Walker today. Copyright is Feret Photographic.



The label on the back says Reims '59. Sheldon shows "Wal Ever" as DNQ, and Cabianca as "DNA" in that race.

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
No dretceterini , that was the 4,5 litre!

OSCA dabbled in Formula One, with normally-aspirated 4.5-litre cars in 1951 and 1952 but with no luck. In 1952 they developed a new 1987cc monoposto to meet the revised GP regs (to F2 standards) which achieved some podium finishes in 1953.....so IMO, the smaller engine car was the only one ever competitive, even though F1 had become F2.

[Wolf]

Well, with all this copyright discussion- wasn't it posted that for research purposes, a fair use (I believe it's correct term, but I have no idea what the following word is) would be posting a lower resolution photo, that way no reproduction or print is possible but the information contained on the photo is made available? Over to the experts...

[Bjorn Kjer]

I just said on Richie Jenkins 2006 Hungarian TNF thread , what a pleasure it was on the TNF compared to others , because here we exchange AND share in (mostly by far) another tone IMHO, thanks to all..

[Ted Walker]

Wolf.......................................NO THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

[Allen Brown]

What an interesting thread. Pity I missed it at the time.

I'm curious about other OSCA entries in this 1957-1960 period:

Naples Grand Prix (Posillipo - 28 April 1957)
Fernando Natella 9th (Not classified)

Coupe Internationale de Vitesse (Reims - 14 July 1957)
#28 Automobili OSCA Andre Simon 10th
#26 Automobili OSCA Umberto Maglioli Did not start

German Grand Prix (Nürburgring - 04 August 1957)
#27 Automobili OSCA Alejandro de Tomaso Did not arrive (Car not ready)

International Trophy (Silverstone - 14 September 1957)
#40 Automobili OSCA Alejandro de Tomaso Did not start final

Argentine Grand Prix (Buenos Aires - 19 January 1958)
#28 Automobili OSCA Colin Davis Did not arrive (Car not ready)

Grand Prix de Pau (Pau - 07 April 1958)
#6 Giulio Cabianca 3rd

Coupe Internationale de Vitesse (Reims - 06 July 1958)
#32 Automobili OSCA Giulio Cabianca 9th
#34 Jon Fast Retired
#36 Luigi Piotti Retired

Gran Premio di Siracusa (Siracuse - 25 April 1959)
#30 Gino Munaron 9th

Grand Prix de Pau (Pau - 18 May 1959)
#14 Gino Munaron Retired
#16 Automobili OSCA Giulio Cabianca Retired

Coupe Internationale de Vitesse (Reims - 05 July 1959)
Wal Ever Did not qualify

Were all of these cars the 1488cc F2/S model described above?

Allen

[Barry Boor]

Although it's now too late to make any for Monaco (race in a week or so's time) I am still toying with the idea of making a Osca or two. I think I would go for the one Roger posted as the nose makes it easier to deal with the front wheels.

Would I be correct in assuming that the driver in the smaller, first image posted on this thread is on the left side of the car, as opposed to in the centre?

[David McKinney]

Allen
I have to admit to some confusion at the Orsini/Zagari designation of a separate F2 model, as they all looked like sportscars, and most - as far as I can make out - also raced in sportscar events.
The only F2/3S car to race in F2 appears to have been Cabianca's

[scheivlak]

The 1958 Monaco OSCA entries can be seen for a few moments after 2:12 and after 2:46 in this interesting clip

[Allen Brown]

Thanks scheivlak. I'm going to claim Fair Use on these two low-res screen grabs as they're being used for research purposes. If anyone objects, I will take them down. They are being published from ORC by the way, with only a link here on TNF.




They look somewhat like the car in Ted's picture above. So what exactly are they?

Allen

[Barry Boor]

Not Osca related but isn't it nice to see Testut's Maserati in Monagasque colours? Did anyone else spot that in one shot of that car the driver had a white helmet but black in all the others?

I wonder if this was when Chiron tried to qualify it.