34 replies to this topic

[Terry Walker]

I was browsing around looking for satellite shots of circuits in my book Fast Tracks and I found this image of the old Surfers Paradise track - or rather, where it had been.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
I was browsing around looking for satellite shots of circuits in my book Fast Tracks and I found this image of the old Surfers Paradise track - or rather, where it had been.

I do not realy belive it's demise was any great loss, do you....????

[Bernd]

I'd take it over The Paperclip any day.

[The Chasm]

That must be a very old satellite photo.

The highway past the site is now 4 lanes at least and the canals through the site are filled with water and condo's built around the edge of all the canals.

Absolutely no trace of the circuit remains in any form - only memories. Sadly, there is no such thing as "white man cultural heritage".

I have some photos taken from the top of the tower when the track opened in 196?, and there are no houses to be seen in any direction as far as the eye could see. Except for the Ski-Gardens across the road of course, and the low rise towers (less the 10 floors) around Surfers. Today, all you can see in every direction are really really highrise towers, highways, houses, condo's and Golf Courses - Aahh the Gold Coast lifestyle, don't you just love it !

[Terry Walker]

I took it for granted that the photo was not very current. The same source offers sateliite imagery of Wembley Stadium as it was three or more years ago. By now I expect the old circuit's site is fully built up as a suburb. Always sad to see an old circuit vanish though.

Edit: opened in 1966. Closed 1987.

[Bernd]

[philippe7]

http://forums.autosp...568#post2396568


....here on TNF, all the answers finally come to he who can wait !!!!

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Bernd

What a dangerous track it was especialy for F5000 cars in their time.!!!!!!!

[The Chasm]

It was a different era, when it was accepted that Motor Racing was dangerous and casual sex was safe.

Today, casual sex is dangerous and Motor Racing is a whole lot safer. I personally like the rules of today.

[The Chasm]

While a number of F5000 drivers acquired their "Lola Limp" at this track, I believe there was only one fatality in a Formula Ford and that was late in the track's history - details on The Motorsport Memorial Site.

[275 GTB-4]

Sad really....I enjoyed the few meetings I was able to attend there.....I liked the raised viewing areas....as for safety standards....did they exist in 1960s and 70s ??

[Brandstormer]

Originally posted by The Chasm
While a number of F5000 drivers acquired their "Lola Limp" at this track, I believe there was only one fatality in a Formula Ford and that was late in the track's history - details on The Motorsport Memorial Site.

Chasm,
You're right about the FFord fatality I was in that race myself. Robin Schorn(?) if I remember right, in an RF78 Van Dieman. Went off under Dunlop bridge and hit the Earth embankment backwards. Not a 'big' accident, just an unlucky one.

As for S.P.I.R., personally I always loved the place, it was superfast and a hard place to go fast. You really had to drive it on a knife edge to get the best out of it.

In fact the very last time I drove there, I remember sharing the front row with a young David Brabham.

Also took a 250 superkart for a spin there once. Now that was scary over the bumps under the Bridge.

When I drive past it now it's sad to see what it's become. A cheap and nasty real estate development.

I also found out this week that 'Darlington Park' is gone as well (Dug up & being redeveloped). What a bloody shame!

As for that 'paperclip' at Ipswich, please don't get me started.....

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Brandstormer


Chasm,
You're right about the FFord fatality I was in that race myself. Robin Schorn(?) if I remember right, in an RF78 Van Dieman. Went off under Dunlop bridge and hit the Earth embankment backwards. Not a 'big' accident, just an unlucky one.

As for S.P.I.R., personally I always loved the place, it was superfast and a hard place to go fast. You really had to drive it on a knife edge to get the best out of it.

In fact the very last time I drove there, I remember sharing the front row with a young David Brabham.

Also took a 250 superkart for a spin there once. Now that was scary over the bumps under the Bridge.

When I drive past it now it's sad to see what it's become. A cheap and nasty real estate development.

I also found out this week that 'Darlington Park' is gone as well (Dug up & being redeveloped). What a bloody shame!

As for that 'paperclip' at Ipswich, please don't get me started.....

Darlington gone!!! nobody had a big enough chainsaw for those bloody trees!!!!!!!!

Gotta agree with Brandstormer .......Surfers was a great circuit

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by The Chasm
While a number of F5000 drivers acquired their "Lola Limp" at this track, I believe there was only one fatality in a Formula Ford and that was late in the track's history - details on The Motorsport Memorial Site.

Just one Lola limp, as I recall... Warwick Brown... but what a shunt he had!

Essentially it was a safe circuit. The speed of the corner under the bridge was really the only thing to make it less so... and this is shown in the record of 'disasters' at the circuit. Brown went off there, Schorn was killed there and Tony Edmondson nearly met his maker there after shunting Phil Ward through that corner.

Additionally the Brock A30 ended its days there, I think Allan Moffat bundled up a Falcon there too. But I might be wrong about that.

It's a little while now since I went by, but I don't think it would be full of houses yet, would it? Or is it longer than I think?

[Terry Walker]

Darlington Park ... where was it exactly?

[BRG]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Darlington Park ... where was it exactly?

Glad it's not just me! Grateful for a clarification for an higorant pom! Also...paperclip? Ipswich?

[Terry Walker]

Paperclip - looks like one! Queensland Raceway near Ipswich. Pic ex Google Map.

[lfcjari37]

The Paperclip is a complete joke...its quite incredible that starting with a clean slate and money to design a track to host major racing events in Queensland thats the best they could come up with. If that was the best they could manage they should have just upgraded Lakeside, at least that was a decent circuit with character and history.

[Brandstormer]

Originally posted by BRG
Glad it's not just me! Grateful for a clarification for an higorant pom! Also...paperclip? Ipswich?

Darlington Park was halfway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast in Queensland Australia.

It was a fantastic undulating private circuit that was built during the 80's by a wealthy businessman. Unfortunately it never got 'CAMS' approval, so no race meetings were ever run there. Apparently there were lots of trees close to the track in places and CAMS wanted them removed, the council said 'No more cutting down trees" and that was about that. I could be wrong but this was told to me by a mate who bought the circuit owners Reynard and Hocking F4000 cars.

The closure is (mainly) due to constant noise complaints of people who moved into the area due to the cheap land, knowing there was a racetrack there, and then complained nonstop. Just like people who live near airports. IMO, if you don't like it, don't move there.

The owner basically built it for him and his sons, but he died suddenly of cancer about a year ago(?).

Very sad, as it was definitely one of, if not the best, circuit layouts in the country!!

[Terry Walker]

I found Darlington Park on Google Map:

[philippe7]

Terry , just one quick off-topic question please : how do you manage to save a Google Maps picture to your hard drive ? Right-click and "save picture as...." doesn't work for me.....

[Ray Bell]

You could try screen print... that works for anything, but the resolution will only ever be good enough for the computer...

On the subject of Darlington Park, I spoke to Brian Shead after he'd been there as part of the National Track Inspection Committee and he basically said that the owner wouldn't put up any safety fences. Nothing about trees, but clearly trees would have been in the line of fire if they had no fences.

Ipswich/Willowbank/Queensland Raceway was never going to fund any improvement to Lakeside. It was in opposition to Lakeside. And while they had a clean slate, they were stuck with flat land and it was all flood plain too. They had to fill the whole site.

Originally they'd been promised free fill by the truckload from the adjoining coalmine, but something happened between the planning stage and the building stage and that fell in a heap to add a pile to the cost.

Nevertheless, Calder started with a flat piece of dirty and now has a hill on it... QR could have been a lot more interesting with a flyover.

The big brag the guy who put it together (someone Brown) had to me when I said it lacked variety was that 'every corner is a different radius'...

[Terry Walker]

As Ray says, I do "print screen" and then paste into paint shop pro. If I want high res, I go to a higher scale on Google Map, and then assemble several images together. I used 10 print screens to put together a good image of Barbagallo, 2000 pixels across.

[Brandstormer]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
'every corner is a different radius'...

...And every straight a different length!

[The Chasm]

The main problems with designing QR were the limited budget and the size/shape of the site.

Just try fitting a 3.2km circuit (with FIA run-offs/track separation) + paddock + car park into 55ha with only $3M.

I was told a hill would have cost a cool $1M in earthworks to meet the standards for runoff/grading as well as impacted on spectator carrying capacity.

The final construction cost amounted to well over $9M so the story goes.

[philippe7]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
As Ray says, I do "print screen"

Thank you Ray and Terry

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I think Allan Moffat bundled up a Falcon there too. But I might be wrong about that.

The Peter Stuyvesant Mazda RX7. It was in 1984 at the fourth round of the Touring Car Championship. Squabbling for third he had a coming together with Garry Willmington's Falcon and speared off hitting a concealed tree stump. Moffat fractured his sternum in the accident and was out of racing for three months. In light of how Group C ended it probably cost him his fifth ATCC crown.

Originally posted by Brandstormer
Darlington Park was halfway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast in Queensland Australia.

It was a fantastic undulating private circuit that was built during the 80's by a wealthy businessman. Unfortunately it never got 'CAMS' approval, so no race meetings were ever run there. Apparently there were lots of trees close to the track in places and CAMS wanted them removed, the council said 'No more cutting down trees" and that was about that. I could be wrong but this was told to me by a mate who bought the circuit owners Reynard and Hocking F4000 cars.

It may have been built in the 80's but I don't think it was paved until the 90's. Rally Queensland used it at one point for a special stage and it was dirt then.

The version of the tale I was told when I was there for some PR exercises a few times was that the track was never 'completed' as it was getting a lot of TV & film stunt work from nearby Warner Brothers Studios and that kerbing and barriers would lose that useful income. Most of the chase sequence from the Tom Cruise vehicle "Mission Impossible 2" was filmed there. While a pit complex was never built the paving for it was, as the wide expanse of ramp near the big (turn 1) sweeper shows.

A V8Supercar (an ex-Ozemail Falcon) lived thee for a time with Craig Yates doing most of the driving, but the team went bust before it could make an impact. More of a shame was that Craig Yates career largely ended there too.

Originally posted by lfcjari37
If that was the best they could manage they should have just upgraded Lakeside, at least that was a decent circuit with character and history.

As Ray said that was never even remotely an option. Dennis Brown's Motorsport Queensland was a new business venture that wated nothing to do with was it David Harding and Geoff Saksewski at Lakeside?

In any case, Pine Rivers Shire Council would never have allowed any expansion or development at Lakeside and consistently prevented any major improvements.

To be fair to Queensland Raceway, it may be dull as dishwater but from the spectator mound you can see the entire circuit and it has tended to produce close racing. It's dull to drive but you can race another car for laps on end without swapping paint.

Those were the trade offs of the design.

Additionally the costs blew out massively when the site flooded barely a week after the circuit had been paved. The seal was ruined and had to be ripped up and sealed again at enormous expense.

Originally posted by The Chasm
The main problems with designing QR were the limited budget and the size/shape of the site.

Just try fitting a 3.2km circuit (with FIA run-offs/track separation) + paddock + car park into 55ha with only $3M.

I was told a hill would have cost a cool $1M in earthworks to meet the standards for runoff/grading as well as impacted on spectator carrying capacity.

The final construction cost amounted to well over $9M so the story goes.

Which was considerably less than the budget needed for Kilcoy Mk. I, now sadly scotched. It was an absolute ripper of a circuit design.

It should be noted that Queensland Raceway recently announced plans to increase its length by almost 50%. The extension will turn left after turn 2 near 'The Dipper' into a roughly L-shaped extension to the north of the circuit on newly acquired land. It won't be paved initially, intending to provide for the burgeoning Super Motard class of racing which presntly races on the paddock roads between the sheds (yes really! anyone want to know how to crash protect a shed for motorcycle racing?)

Brief plug - the historics are at QR this weekend, themed marque, Chevrolet (and GM).

[Ray Bell]

You're right, Mark, the movie work was the reason that they didn't want any safety fences...

As for QR and the limitations of the site... at first they could have had the whole area to themselves. But when no plans were forthcoming and the drag racing people popped up wanting a place to build a strip, then they got a slice of the land. Then the go kart people got a bit, a slice went to another group and then another until the original beneficiaries of the available land allocation had very little left.

I don't think it was anything like $9m by the way. The debts when it went bankrupt weren't nearly that high, and I don't think they had much money of their own.

Remember, too, that when it was about to be built the Lakeside management wined and dined a landholder with property adjoining the Willowbank 'motor sporting precinct' and announced that they were going into a joint venture with them to create an oval there.

Those poor people must have felt like fools when all of that was over...

[The Chasm]

It was over $9M Ray.

There were undisclosed borrowings that were paid out by the QLD government so they could be in complete control of the recievership process in 1999/2000.

BOQ

SP

GDC

and of course the shareholders/life members

The flood had nothing to do with the cost blowouts - the flood was in February before the track was fully formed, and the asphalt was not laid until April/May. The total cost of the flood was less than $100,000 damage and the delay in the construction - two weeks. Just ask the builder any time, he will tell you the facts - he currently races a Development Series V8 Supercar.

It was not really a cost blowout anyway - just a un-realistic budget to start with. Compare to the money spent at Eastern Creek - $60M+ at last count.

[Brandstormer]

Originally posted by The Chasm
Compare to the money spent at Eastern Creek - $60M+ at last count.

And they still created a circuit that lacks character.

It is better than QIR, but $50m better?

Anyone got any plans/sketches of this 'proposed extension' at QIR?

[Falcadore]

I did but now I don't unforunately, it made the back cover of the Queensland Times (Ipswich's Newspaper).

I'm working for the track this weekend I'll try to get a copy of the article if I remember.

By the way, why QIR? It's Queensland Raceway. Always has been.

Also, bear in mind the Eastern Creek was built for MotoGP. QR has never had such lofty ambitions.

[Falcadore]

Relpying to the original post, the new residents on the former SPIR site most love the upgrades and expense being thrown at neighbouring Carara Stadium with the Gold Coast Titans and the (very) North Melbourne Kangaroos starting to play games there.

You see if you're a football code, you can get away with such things.

[Ray Bell]

Just for the record... here's 'Kilcoy Mk 1'... more properly called 'Villeneuve' I would say...



I have every confidence that this same team will do just as good a job at the replacement site. Bear in mind that the circuit is designed not to be clockwise or anti-clockwise. It's designed for use in both directions!

[BRG]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Paperclip - looks like one! Queensland Raceway near Ipswich. Pic ex Google Map.

Thanks!

By chance, Channel 5 in the UK showed the V8 race on this track the other night which I taped. One race was OK, but I was bored by the end of the second and skipped the third one. The track is oneof those strange ones, uninspiring on paper, but it seems to be OK for racing. And good for the spectators who can see everything. Like a much bigger Mallory Park.

[The Chasm]

[IMG]http://img196.images...e0001ko1.th.jpg[/IMG]


Here is a comparison between Surfers Paradise and Lakeside circuits. Lots of interesting detail here for TNF enthusiasts.