British saloon car racing of the 1960s and 1970s
#1
Posted 02 August 2006 - 00:23
Those big, rumbling, throaty Camaros and Mustangs racing against Capris, Escorts, Anglias, Minis, Imps and the like were a source of great entertainment during in my 'yoof' back in the early 1970s - just as the Falcons and Galaxies must have been in the 1960s, mixing it with the smaller, mainly European-built cars as seen last weekend.
It cost me a lot of my 'pocket money' to take pics back then, so most were concentrated upon the single-seaters, but I did take a few...
Frank Gardner's SCA Freight Camaro Z28 at Brands Hatch during the 1972 British GP meeting;
A 'dayglo' red BMW 2002 at the 1972 Brands Hatch Victory Race (I probably took the pic because they were sponsored by an underpants manufacturer!);
Dennis Leech readies to take his Mustang to pit lane during the 1973 British GP at Silverstone;
Dave Matthews' ill-fated Broadspeed 'Cologne' Capri in 1973;
Tony Sugden's Escort at Mallory Park, 1973;
Tony Lanfranchi's Plymouth on the grid at Brands Hatch for the 1975 Race of Champions support event;
There must be many more pics of these wonderful old beasts out there...
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#2
Posted 02 August 2006 - 00:37
As I am only a young chap but I am surprised to see a rear wing on that Mustang especially during that era.
But still the cars looked great at the time.
#3
Posted 02 August 2006 - 05:19
#4
Posted 02 August 2006 - 06:29
Dare I ask if I can use your pictures on my site? Don't have much results so far for that period, but I'm sure that will be settled in the near future.
#5
Posted 02 August 2006 - 06:35
Then there were the cars of Mick Hill, the Daf-Rover, A VW Variant with a DFV, Vauxhalls big engined Vivas Firenzas and Ventoras and a host of other cars with big engines out of other cars
The products of the special builders were amazing and much missed . Saloon car racing today is very tame in comparison.
#6
Posted 02 August 2006 - 07:03
Fantastic stuff. More please..
This was the proper British Touring ( Saloon) Car Championship. I admit to being completely baffled
by the hype and interest there is in today's BTCC with its banger racing format and hideous slow
2-litre shopping trollies with over hyped drivers, often failed young single seater pilots. The 4 class system worked well for me, battles right through the field with skill required by the leaders to lap the tiddlers.
#7
Posted 02 August 2006 - 08:19
The FOUR class BTCC was certainly the 'best' era in saloon car racing. I thought the Group One move was pathetic whilst I agree that the overpaid dodgem drivers are not worth going to see especially that prize whinging prat Plato.
#8
Posted 02 August 2006 - 08:29
#9
Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:11
(This was taken on Agfa film, and I've noticed that none of my [Instamatic] pics taken on that brand have weathered anywhere near as well as the ones taken on Kodak.)
#10
Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:14
#11
Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:15
Help yourself, Frank!Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Dare I ask if I can use your pictures on my site?
#12
Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:19
Temporary stands were put up on the grass to the left of the shot.
#13
Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:01
Surely the king of Escorts - Frank Gardner's Alan Mann car
Dennis Leech's Falcon
Alec Poole's Mini
Stuart Baird's Falcon at Oulton
#14
Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:07
The shell of Gardner's X00 349F eventually became Alistair Lyall's red/yellow car that won the first post-war race at Donington in '77, so Alistair once told me.
#15
Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:40
Ah, I see we have the first contribution to the BBC's latest series "Grumpy Old Motor Racing Fans".Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
This was the proper British Touring ( Saloon) Car Championship. I admit to being completely baffled by the hype and interest there is in today's BTCC with its banger racing format and hideous slow 2-litre shopping trollies with over hyped drivers, often failed young single seater pilots. The 4 class system worked well for me, battles right through the field with skill required by the leaders to lap the tiddlers.
Those 'hideous slow' BTCC cars have well over 300bhp from their 2 litre engines and would I suspect easily outrun anything from past touring car series, including the Sierra turbo era. It is far from perfect of course, but I would rather watch BTCC than suffer the tedium of modern F3 or F. Renault.
As for the hype, it is a pity that one of the few motor racing series that actively tries to promote itself and attract spectators is criticised for it. Maybe 'The right crowd and no crowding' ethic isn't dead after all!
#16
Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:55
Originally posted by BRG
Those 'hideous slow' BTCC cars have well over 300bhp from their 2 litre engines and would I suspect easily outrun anything from past touring car series, including the Sierra turbo era. It is far from perfect of course, but I would rather watch BTCC than suffer the tedium of modern F3 or F. Renault.
IMO the BTCC rules should be like DTM. Big much faster powerful cars.
The BTCC might be ( wrongly in my view) perceived as the most important racing series in the country yet they lap slower than a little Formula Ford, that can't be right can it?
Has so much money ever been spent on a contemporary racing car to go so slowly? What is needed is less of the vested interest culture that dominates the UK scene, hence far too many Championships.
Get a proper big single seater championship (GP2 spec?) supported by F3 and the BTCC (back where it belongs) and British GT as a complete package with guest series from the historic scene to fill the programme. Bigger crowds for sure.
#17
Posted 02 August 2006 - 11:27
#18
Posted 02 August 2006 - 11:38
Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
IMO the BTCC rules should be like DTM. Big much faster powerful cars.
The BTCC might be ( wrongly in my view) perceived as the most important racing series in the country yet they lap slower than a little Formula Ford, that can't be right can it?
Has so much money ever been spent on a contemporary racing car to go so slowly? What is needed is less of the vested interest culture that dominates the UK scene, hence far too many Championships.
Get a proper big single seater championship (GP2 spec?) supported by F3 and the BTCC (back where it belongs) and British GT as a complete package with guest series from the historic scene to fill the programme. Bigger crowds for sure.
Andrew,
Every time someone tries to create something "more spectacular" than the BTCC it dies on its behind -- Andy Rouse's SCV8 package, and that turbo idea that was knocking around last year... For that matter, Eurocar never really prospered in the way it was intended to, either?
I agree that rather than the repmobiles I'd like to see bigger cars (Jags, 5-series BMWs, Mercs, big Audis and Volvos) in touring car racing - 500bhp rather than 300 and ideally rwd or 4wd. The current breed are both too advanced and yet too restricted...
But right now it's a struggle getting a full grid in the BTCC even with year-old cars and a two-class system. A switch to 'big iron' would cost an absolute bomb and would get no manufacturer support whatsoever; I doubt the manufacturers would see it as being something worth supporting.
The Britsports boys have a V8 series now, which might fill that remit...
And I wouldn't want a series like Australian supercars - that's a bit too NASCAR for me, with near-spec cars and too much bumping and grinding....
"supported by F3"....
urgh! -- F3 performs to three men and their dogs, and I suspect those three men are related to the drivers most of the time.
I'm afraid that I often treat an F3 race as an opportunity for the four Ps - "Paddock, Pie, Pint and.... get rid of pint". Most of the racing's utterly lacklustre and the formula has no public image at all, absurd for what's arguably the premiere single seater formula in the country and the most important F3 championship around. If the cars had 300bhp and half the downforce I might get interested again; as it is it's ideal training for F1 (underpowered, too close to the ground, and over-tyred).
Many years ago I suggested that what British motorsport needed was to harmonise engine regs between Super Touring, an F3-like single-seater category, and a descendent of Clubmans/National Supersports -- so you'd have a sports car, touring car and single seater series all with the same engine regs (thereby driving costs down), and the single-seater series would actually be quick...
These days I'd say ditch F3 entirely at national level and let the Euroseries continue for anyone who wants to go up the ladder that way -- no spectators care about F3, from what I can see (FRenault does a good enough job as a junior single-seater series), run a national-level series for previous-generation F3000s or World Series Renault chassis instead, and (controversially) fold the dying British GT series into the much better-run Britcar setup.
And for the top national class? Well, I know this is going to be deeply, deeply unpopular in some circles, but Daytona Prototypes. Seriously. They're relatively cheap to buy and run, they're not too fast for most of our circuits, they can stand a bit of paint-trading, they sound fantastic and I reckon are well within the scope of a lot of teams to run properly. (I reckon any of the top Britsports and Britcar teams and most of the GT teams could understand and run a DP).
#19
Posted 02 August 2006 - 11:53
Is it any wonder I only get enthusiastic about going to historic meetings these days?
Modern meetings are just 'going to work'. Despite the disappointment of having to watch rolling starts which the GP Masters cars never did in period of course, give me an HSCC or historic meeting any day
and often it is the saloons that entertain the most, due to their sideways antics, yet clean unlike their modern counterpart!
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#20
Posted 02 August 2006 - 12:22
While not in Twinny and Alan's league here are a few photographs I took in the early 1970s. Some of these may have been posted previously in the personal photos thread but I have changed my image host and might lose some earlier images, this also brings them all together
Frank Gardner at the 1970 British Grand Prix.
Garrett at the 1970 British GP
Hickman at the 1970 British GP
Leach leading the opening lap at the 1970 British GP support race.
Brian Muir in practice at the 1971 British Grand Prix meeting.
Pico Troberg's paddock at the 1971 British GP.
Gardner, McGovern and Matthews in the 1972 British GP support race.
Bill McGovern at the 1972 British GP meeting.
The grainiest scanned negative ever of the 1973 British Grand Prix support race.
David
#21
Posted 02 August 2006 - 12:28
Originally posted by David Lawson
While not in Twinny and Alan's league here are a few photographs I took in the early 1970s. Some of these may have been posted previously in the personal photos thread but I have changed my image host and might lose some earlier images, this also brings them all together
David
David, they may not be in the same league, I would still happily include them on my site - just like Alan's...
Love the Muir pic!
#22
Posted 02 August 2006 - 13:16
Thanks!
#23
Posted 02 August 2006 - 13:42
I suppose "Ford in touringcar racing" is the best book available - although it is limited to Ford, of course.
#24
Posted 02 August 2006 - 15:34
Originally posted by Teapot
Sorry for going slightly OT, but since we're talking about tin-tops, could someone recommend a book about 60's and 70's british and european saloon car racing (possibly something I can buy from e-shops ...read:without rummaging for ages in second-hand bookshops continents away from home) ? There are some nice websites out there, but I have yet to find a comprehensive work on this topic.
Thanks!
I wish there was one! -- as with many people here I'd definitely go out and buy it.
Anyone with an interest in 60s saloon car racing should splash out a few quid on Nick Brittan's "How To Go Saloon Car Racing". It's got lots of anecdotes, background to how one went about starting to be a racing driver in the 60s, pics of Anglias and Fraser Imps, circuit maps and walkthroughs of the laps, and generally it's just a nice fun little book - still fairly easy to get hold of. (Interestingly I think both my Mini Cooper-owning uncles, one on each side of the family, owned copies of it but never took the plunge! -- mind you, my grandad had a Mk1 Lotus Cortina that he traded in for a..... (spit) Triumph Herald!. There's obviously a story there...)
#25
Posted 02 August 2006 - 15:48
It focuses on the Frank Gardner Alan Mann Escort ( shown in the photo above ) v Falcon battles, however lots of other Escort, Mustang, Cortina, Imp, Mini, Porsche, Alfa and 3-wheeling Fiat action.
Brands GP (3 visits), Mallory, Snetterton ( The Good Friday ETCC round on the proper long circuit ) and Oulton are shown. It was originally a 'Guards' film, lasts for 40mins. I think the commentary is by Patrick Allen.
Released in 1995 by PP Video Tel: 01885 488800.
edit:
infact, there is one on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem
#26
Posted 02 August 2006 - 17:18
My own efforts at the time were worse than useless, I wish I had concentrated on shots like this one of Brian Muir at Brands Hatch Victory race.
rather than this one of Martin Birrane during practice.
David, I think the Imp in your photo is Brian Willcox rather than the Bevan car.
The book "The British Saloon Car Championship" is really the biography of George Bevan but has many unseen photos from the era and another video to look out for is "Drag on a summers day" which features Frank Gardner at the first Thruxton race of 1973 in his mighty Camaro as well as testing at a very rural looking Oulton Park.
Glyn
#27
Posted 02 August 2006 - 21:06
Special saloon field fom August '72
G D R Marshall takes the lead from Tony Strawson
Martin Birrane's Mach 1 Mustang
Mick Hill's V8 Capri Special Saloon
#28
Posted 02 August 2006 - 21:51
Now, anyone got a photo of a Knickers In Tins Mini? - something that photogenic can't've escaped the snapper's eye...
#29
Posted 02 August 2006 - 22:08
P.S. More great pics from David
#30
Posted 02 August 2006 - 23:18
From the Group 2 support race to the September 1972 Oulton Park F2 race;
Laurie Hickman in his Escort...
...Terry Sanger's Camaro...
...Dave Matthews' Escort...
Martin Thomas' 'Flame Out' Chevrolet Camaro...
...Frank Gardner's slightly newer Z28 version of the Camaro...
This truly dreadful pic (as my above attempts prove, the Kodak 'Instamatic' was never the premium piece of kit, and simply could not cope with anything less than decent sunlight) but at least it shows a *sort-of-image* depicting Gerry Birrell's one-off (IIRC) drive in the Ford of Belgium Capri RS2600 (which was somewhat ironically sponsored by BP of all companies!) in the support race for the 1972 Victory Race event at Bands Hatch. I'll put it on Martyn Spurrell's thread regarding that specific model too...
Brian Muir reversing his 3 litre BMW CSL [towards the tunnel] at Brands Hatch during the 1973 Race of Champions meeting...
Vince Woodman behind the wheel of his Camaro Z28 on the grid for the saloon support race at the 1974 International Trophy...
#31
Posted 03 August 2006 - 06:45
Originally posted by Twin Window
Dave Matthews' ill-fated Broadspeed 'Cologne' Capri in 1973;
Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
I remember seeing that Capri disintegrating 30ft up in the air, I think the most horrifying accident I have witnessed
Are we speaking about this accident, Gentlemen ?
This picture originally appeared in the french mainstream weekly "Paris-Match". I found it so incredible that I actually took a photo of the magazine page and made a 8x10 print of it....I dug in my archives last night, found it and scanned it this morning !
#32
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:07
#33
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:17
#34
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:39
* I do realise the irony of asking for photos of someone whose name I can't remember!
#35
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:45
He had a yellow and black Anglia but also had it in dark blue sponsored by the Portobello Inn.
In 1967-69 he raced the blue indecently fast Morris Minor in special saloons.
There were some good Anglia drivers around this time, Brands specialists such as Zekia Redjep, Ken Dawes & Pat Mannion.
Mike Chittenden's daughter Tiffany now races in the junior Formulae.
#36
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:46
I recall him for his gloriously well-prepared FVC-engined Escort Mk1 (and I think a Mk2 shape to follow) - he was little later than Brodie onto the 'higher-profile' club scene with the Escort, so he maybe was the Anglia driver before that? I don't have clear recollection of him racing prior to his yellow Escort (and his regular rival - was that Tony Sugden, long-time club racing stalwart?), so maybe I have the wrong man...
(Sorry Andrew - my edit overlapped your following post)
#37
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:49
#38
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:53
#39
Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:06
Another late 60s Anglia Brands regular - 'Spotty Muldoon' - remember him?
I've posted this before however as we are discussing Brands and Anglias,
from my website:
http://www.andrewkit...ages/anglia.htm
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#40
Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:10
YES -that's the fellah - thanks, sleepless night wracking my brains can now be cancelled! Although maybe I also had Nick Whiting in mind over the local connections. I remenber the Anglia was in dark blue but I didn't recall the Portobello Inn name on it. What engine did it run - just a big 1650 or 1760 pushrod or maybe a twincam?Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Probably Mike Chittenden.
#41
Posted 03 August 2006 - 10:17
Originally posted by 2F-001
Was it Abbott who ran an Escort with a Hewland transaxle and caused a bit of a rumpus over its eligibilty?
Indeed it was an FT 200 you may remember the car also had a Glassfibre rear end. In a race at Brands, Gerry Marshal hit him from behind and the whole of the back of the car fell away Abbott continued and the pink escort was exhibited on the Motor Racing Show boat in the Thames that year with the rear of the car still in tatters.
'BBC's 100 Greatest Sporting Moments' featured an Osram Saloon Car round from Crystal Palace. with both of them in amazing action 1971 with Crabtree Escort, Thomas Camaro, and Marshall Viva GT tied together in a race long thriller, angles you just can never see in front wheel drive cars.
Nick Whiting 's life ended in a gangland shooting.
#42
Posted 03 August 2006 - 10:22
Originally posted by RTH
Nick Whiting 's life ended in a gangland shooting.
Sadly it did. I was talking to his brother Charlie ( FIA F1 delegate ) at the BGP about those good old special saloon days.
#43
Posted 03 August 2006 - 12:55
Originally posted by Frank de Jong
David, they may not be in the same league, I would still happily include them on my site - just like Alan's...
Love the Muir pic!
Please feel free.
David
#44
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:01
#45
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:04
#46
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:11
Originally posted by BRG
By best memoreis of those days are of some epic contests at Brands Hatch between Dave Brodie in the 'Run Baby Run' Escort and a local driver in a Ford Anglia whose name currently eludes me. He was sponsored by the motor factors in West Kingswood, less than a mile down the road. And the Anglia (who as the underdog, and local hero, the crowd usually supported) sometimes got the upper hand. Now what WAS his name and has anyone got any pics?*
Was this Les Nash with his "Purple People Eater" Anglia ?
#47
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:14
#48
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:16
Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I think he did mean Chittenden. Wasn't Les Nash midlands based? Silverstone and Mallory expert like Terry McNally?
I thought he was a southerner Andrew. I may be wrong.
He rarely ventured to Oulton Park, that's for sure.
#49
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:19
#50
Posted 03 August 2006 - 13:24
Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Wasn't there a 'Micky Chittenden' in a Modsports Ginetta G4 in the 70s too, same bloke ??
Was it sister or wife ?