127 replies to this topic

[N3NP]

Having Nick Heidfeld ( German ) and now Kubica ( Polish / German ) as race drivers,
while the german press in general is convinced that Vettel ( also German ) will be the new
Friday test and reserve driver for BMW-Sauber F1, it looks like the BMW-Sauber F-1 team is only looking after German race drivers and test drivers, which I think is narrow minded and absolutely not suiting for a global quality premium brand as BMW is.

Although I have not seen much of Vettel or Kubica, ( perhaps that says it all !!! ) I know for sure
there are far more talented race drivers who have not the German nationality, ( but come from South-America for example ), and if BMW wants to be recognised as a global company, I trully believe they just cannot keep on taking German drivers pretending to rate only on talent, instead of German nationality.

[carbonfibre]

I never thought it was necessary for a team to pick drivers on their nationality. Just get them because they are good.

[N3NP]

Red Bull is a global minded company, according to Mateschitz comments :

Asked if Klien's heritage might save him, Mateschitz said: ''We cannot make decisions on the basis of nationality. We have to have the best people we can get.''

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by N3NP
and now Kubica ( Polish / German ) as race drivers,

What makes Kubica "/ German" ??

Do you think Poles are some kind of Germans ??????

[zaphod bleebox]

I am 110% sure that BMW F1 is Germany focused; specially Mr. Mario Thyssen (sorry if mispelled). I work for an aerospace company on a program which the customer is German; and from what I read on the news, etc.. about the management attitude at BMW F1 it remind me completely my everyday job.

I remember some declarations from Frank Williams when they parted away from BWM, saying something like that the reason for parting away (apart from the BMW desire to control a F1 team, of course) was their different way to approaching problems; the english one and the german one.

I am neither english or german but I understand completely Mr. Williams wording. German way of approaching problems is very nationally focused, and so their managerial decisions.

[Hyatt]

deutsche Panzer rollen wieder!

[N3NP]

"German way of approaching problems is very nationally focused, and so their managerial decisions. "

So not global minded, which is for a quality premium brand as BMW hard to understand,
especially marketing wise and commercial wise.

[Imperial]

For reasons I mentioned in another thread, Kubica is absolutely not in the BMW to sell cars in Poland. The market for BMW's in Poland is relatively non-existant, it wouldn't be value for money (in 2006 at least) for them to hire Kubica based on selling cars to his homeland.

He seems to be a rarity in being a race driver hired on talent.

[V8 Fireworks]

I can't see why they would want to be focused on Germany and surrounding countries when there must be more targeted ways of advertising there.

For the amount of money it costs the 3-series sedan does appear to be a very small car. It isn't really the same size as the Mondeo/Vectra sized (premium end) segment it's supposedly in I reckon.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks
I can't see why they would want to be focused on Germany and surrounding countries when there must be more targeted ways of advertising there.

For the amount of money it costs the 3-series sedan does appear to be a very small car. It isn't really the same size as the Mondeo/Vectra sized (premium end) segment it's supposedly in I reckon.

Yeah, but the Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Vectra are plastic pieces of ****....

[Gemini]

Originally posted by carbonfibre
I never thought it was necessary for a team to pick drivers on their nationality. Just get them because they are good.

Super Aguri

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by Imperial


Yeah, but the Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Vectra are plastic pieces of ****....

[Group B]

Originally posted by scheivlak
What makes Kubica "/ German" ??

Do you think Poles are some kind of Germans ??????

N3NP, Can you enlighten us with regards to Kubica's German connection?

[Ilaya]

Originally posted by N3NP
"German way of approaching problems is very nationally focused, and so their managerial decisions. "

So not global minded, which is for a quality premium brand as BMW hard to understand,
especially marketing wise and commercial wise.

So based on their driver choice and an opinion by 1 guy, who works for a company that has a German client, you decide that it must be true that German companies (like BMW) are "nationally focussed" and not "global minded".

Trust me BMW putting 2 Europeans in their F1 cars has nothing to do with not being globally minded.

Or would Toyota, Red Bull and Renault also be not globally minded for doing the same?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally posted by Imperial


Yeah, but the Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Vectra are plastic pieces of ****....

Not really!

Let's take the 1 series and compare to Focus or Mazda.

For the price and specification point which is superior the Ford Focus XR5 Turbo [2.5 L petrol 166 kW $AU 34,990], Mazda3 MPS Turbo [ 2.3 L petrol 190 kW $AU 43, 690] or the basement BMW 1 series [1.6 L petrol 85kW, $AU 34, 900] ?

For 90 bucks extra you can have a Ford pocket rocket instead of a BMW shopping trolley? Which one's plastic again.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks


Not really!

Let's take the 1 series and compare to Focus or Mazda.

For the price and specification point which is superior the Ford Focus XR5 Turbo [2.5 L petrol 166 kW $AU 34,990], Mazda3 MPS Turbo [ 2.3 L petrol 190 kW $AU 43, 690] or the basement BMW 1 series [1.6 L petrol 85kW, $AU 34, 900] ?

For 90 bucks extra you can have a Ford pocket rocket instead of a BMW shopping trolley? Which one's plastic again.

All Ford's are plastic ****.

[N3NP]

N3NP, Can you enlighten us with regards to Kubica's German connection?

To my information Kubica has both Polish and German passport/nationality,
therefore my comment ( Polish / German ).

And don't get me wrong concerning Kubica, I would like to point out more to Vettel,
as all the German press has promoted him ( being a German driver ) to the new Friday
test and reserve driver of BMW-Sauber F1 ( assuming Villeneuve won't return as racing
driver ), so to my information a third German driver after Heidfeld and Kubica.

[xype]

Originally posted by Imperial
All Ford's are plastic ****.

It's off topic, but it's true. It's like people comparing a homebuilt "rocket" PC to an Alienware or Apple machine.

[Mauseri]

Dunno if kubica is german, but his name suits together with the image of BMW road cars. I'd not except to see Alfonsos' in BMW. And ... I don't think picking national drivers is bad for the image of manufacturer. Except if the driver is crap and cant fight with drivers of other nationalities. It's marketing effort of german cars, and having a german (or almost) driver is part of it.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by N3NP
N3NP, Can you enlighten us with regards to Kubica's German connection?

To my information Kubica has both Polish and German passport/nationality,
therefore my comment ( Polish / German )

That would surprise me a lot, as his website has Polish and English as languages: http://www.kubica.pl/
You would think it would be in German as well, if he's a BMW driver with the German nationality.

Nowhere on the site is there any reference of a German passport/nationality BTW. And if you were born in Cracow in 1984 a German passport isn't that easily in your reach I guess.

[Lazarus II]

If BMW change to black leather outfits, or brown shirts then we may have to put a stop to it. until then if Mario wants to be a jingoistic shithead to the detriment of his company........let him.

I do not know him, and don't really care that I don't either, but he does come across as being jingoistic.....Frank Williams & Patrick Head seemed to paint him that way.

[Ilaya]

Originally posted by micra_k10
It's marketing effort of german cars, and having a german (or almost) driver is part of it.

Well unless you you have some hidden proof he is, I think that a Polish born (1984) driver that starts competing in karts and autosport in Italy from age 13 isn't very likely to have a German passport.

Also referring to Polish as (almost) German would probably offend many Polish people.

but I liked this one though:

Dunno if kubica is german, but his name suits together with the image of BMW road cars.

[senna da silva]

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks
I can't see why they would want to be focused on Germany and surrounding countries when there must be more targeted ways of advertising there.

For the amount of money it costs the 3-series sedan does appear to be a very small car. It isn't really the same size as the Mondeo/Vectra sized (premium end) segment it's supposedly in I reckon.

Have you driven a BMW?

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by senna da silva


Have you driven a BMW?

Yeah. I'm still not over the cheap plastic waterpump impellers that beak away under 40k miles. Or the secret alignment specs they refuse to publish.

[senna da silva]

Originally posted by Lazarus II

Yeah. I'm still not over the cheap plastic waterpump impellers that beak away under 40k miles. Or the secret alignment specs they refuse to publish.

That aside, you would know then that they are the ultimate driving machine!

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by senna da silva


That aside, you would know then that they are the ultimate driving machine!

No it was the "Ultimate Overheating Machine"

There's better out there......with better service too. - IMO

[De Weberis]

N3NP,

Why are you complaining?
Knowing your support for Nelson Piquet Jr., do you have an inside information?
Are they blocking NAP at a test hole in BMW?

What can they do?
Hire the German-Dutch-Brazillian NAP?
Hire the German-Swedish-Finish Nico?

Some people consider Austria an extension of Germany, is Klien forbiden.

In fact 1/4 of the grid has German connections nowadays.

[Chuck Skowron]

"Polish/German"

Oh jeez, Kubica is just starting to show promise, and already they're trying to claim him as part of their own.

Aren't they satisfied with all of the Germans already on the grid?

[jb_128]

Does anyone have any proof that the Kubica/German connection isn't pulled out of thin air? I mean I'm sure the German TV and press people over here would have noticed.

[Imperial]

N3NP seems to be the only person convinced Kubica is in someway half Polish and half German, which as has been hinted at by someone else, would have been a very difficult thing to achieve in either countries in the early 1980's.

[tre]

God damn. What's all this talk about Kubica having some German connection? I am Polish. I've followed Kubica's career for quite some time now and I can assure you that he is 100% genetically and formally Polish ;)

[Gemini]

Originally posted by Ilaya




Also referring to Polish as (almost) German would probably offend many Polish people.

:

I guess N3NP read only first chapters from his WWII history book

this one is classic indeed

Dunno if kubica is german, but his name suits together with the image of BMW road cars.

[Sakae]

In Poland lives a lot of former German nationals who were born on the teritory that used to be Germany for a few tousand years. After the WW2 borders had changed, and all those people got gulped by Poland. I am not however sure if Kubica' forefathers were of Prussia.

[De Weberis]

Originally posted by tre
...I can assure you that he is 100% genetically and formally Polish ;)

Ehmmm...
Tell me, how can you assure it?

Even a DNA test wouldn't differentiate a German from a Polish.

After all Kubica's father could be using a Bull Wig, a Viking Hat, a...

There are some strange threads lately
Is Hamilton black?
Is Bruno really a Senna?
Is Kubica 100% polish?

The solution could be telling Kubica the options of German jokes featuring Polish guys.
If Kubica does everything as expected he is really Polish, else he is half German.
Kidding, Course.

I ride the Kubica bus.

[Riker!]

Hes as polish as half of the Germany Soccer Team.

[baddog]

BMW cares about the USA above ALL things.. Germany and the UK come after, but a long way after.

[bnlflo]

Originally posted by Chuck Skowron
"Polish/German"

Oh jeez, Kubica is just starting to show promise, and already they're trying to claim him as part of their own.

ummm.... who is doing that? I only saw N3NP claiming that out of nowhere.

Originally posted by Chuck Skowron
Aren't they satisfied with all of the Germans already on the grid?

being German myself, I could well live without the Schumacher brothers, and I don't need Heidfeld on the grid either. Rosberg and Sutil would be enough.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally posted by Imperial


All Ford's are plastic ****.

You have you would much rather have a BMW 1-series 1.6 L than a Ford Focus XR5?

Please directly address why the BMW is superior.

BMW's are completely not needed, a well specced car for people who would rather not flush an extra 50 to 200 % of dollars down the toilet for a similar car can be had from makers at much less of a premium.

Another example, would you rather a BMW 3-series [basic version] or the HSV 298 kW V8 Muscle Car on run-out for indeed a cheaper price in fact. Yes the build quality and indeed the plastics quality of the supposedly not-plastic BMW [how can a BMW have superior plastics if the other brands are plastic!!!??? explain please] are superior, but who cares when the HSV is a better car to have at the price.

[Jacquesback]

I'm now contemplating selling my BMW after today's announcement.

[Peter Perfect]

Originally posted by Jacquesback
I'm now contemplating selling my BMW after today's announcement.

I've seen this kind of comment from a few people today, and I genuinely don't understand it.

Why should the actions of a race team have such an effect on your day-to-day actions?

[Sakae]

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks

You have you would much rather have a BMW 1-series 1.6 L than a Ford Focus XR5?

Please directly address why the BMW is superior.

BMW's are completely not needed, a well specced car for people who would rather not flush an extra 50 to 200 % of dollars down the toilet for a similar car can be had from makers at much less of a premium.

Another example, would you rather a BMW 3-series [basic version] or the HSV 298 kW V8 Muscle Car on run-out for indeed a cheaper price in fact. Yes the build quality and indeed the plastics quality of the supposedly not-plastic BMW [how can a BMW have superior plastics if the other brands are plastic!!!??? explain please] are superior, but who cares when the HSV is a better car to have at the price.

I think you have missed the point by a mile. Appreciation of BMW (looks, feel, stability, passive/active safety) comes forward in winter on roads with iced road patches, just as in summer, when you are hauling 150 km +, and you need to go through an evasive maneuver. I have survived such event (including my heart stopping for a few seconds). I have also owned an American vehicle for a few years and had one or two hot moments. Based on comparative experience I think I prefer BMW on any day. (By the way I own BMW, and drive an American car on business). If you want to go racing, why would you compare a family sedan with a muscle car? Take M5 on a controlled race track, and use it for a while before you slander whole brand.

[N3NP]

BMW Motorsport is searching for new talent in September in Germany, on a German circuit for
20 invited kart drivers, see underneath, as stated on their own website.


"As a building block in their active talent promotion programme, BMW Motorsport in partnership with the ADAC is organising an open day – the “Formula BMW Experience Day”.

From 12 to 13 September on the premises of the Michelin Driving Centre in Gross Dölln near Berlin, around 20 invited kart drivers will be able to take part in two “taster days”. From around 3 to 7 p.m. on Tuesday these young motor racing enthusiasts will be taught the theory behind the Formula car, and on Wednesday they can familiarise themselves with the 140 bhp racer by taking some driving exercises. Instructors from BMW will be on hand, and some of the Formula BMW Germany drivers will also be dropping by during the event ".

Will those 20 invited kart drivers all be German, or will BMW look further and
will some of those invited kart drivers be international, time will tell.

[Ilaya]

Originally posted by N3NP
BMW Motorsport is searching for new talent in September in Germany, on a German circuit for
20 invited kart drivers, see underneath, as stated on their own website.


"As a building block in their active talent promotion programme, BMW Motorsport in partnership with the ADAC is organising an open day – the “Formula BMW Experience Day”.

From 12 to 13 September on the premises of the Michelin Driving Centre in Gross Dölln near Berlin, around 20 invited kart drivers will be able to take part in two “taster days”. From around 3 to 7 p.m. on Tuesday these young motor racing enthusiasts will be taught the theory behind the Formula car, and on Wednesday they can familiarise themselves with the 140 bhp racer by taking some driving exercises. Instructors from BMW will be on hand, and some of the Formula BMW Germany drivers will also be dropping by during the event ".

Will those 20 invited kart drivers all be German, or will BMW look further and
will some of those invited kart drivers be international, time will tell.

You really should be looking a bit further instead of just stupidly trying to prove a non existing point about BMW.

This is part of the BMW Motorsport Formula BMW program, which btw runs in Asia, USA, UK and Germany.
It is designed to give young drivers 13-16 a first chance in motorsport after karts. now it would be obvious for BMW to scout talent for the German Formula BMW program in Germany, now wouldn't it?

Aargh, what the hell, find out for yourself you might start here and please stop posting BS about non-existent double nationalities and BMW's global attitude until you have some proof.

[BRG]

I think there must be a strong suspicion that BMW is favouring German drivers.

Look at their touring car efforts. For several years, the two 'official' BMW drivers in the ETCC and now the WTCC have been Germans - Jorg and Dirk Muller. Other lesser nationalities are put into the semi-works teams. Yet the final ETCC and first WTCC champion was Briton Andy Priaulx in a semi-works BMW.

He has repeatedly beaten the official drivers and is doing it again this season. So why haven't BMW promoted him to be a official driver? We don't know - but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - shoot it!

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by BRG
I think there must be a strong suspicion that BMW is favouring German drivers.

Look at their touring car efforts. For several years, the two 'official' BMW drivers in the ETCC and now the WTCC have been Germans - Jorg and Dirk Muller. Other lesser nationalities are put into the semi-works teams. Yet the final ETCC and first WTCC champion was Briton Andy Priaulx in a semi-works BMW.

He has repeatedly beaten the official drivers and is doing it again this season. So why haven't BMW promoted him to be a official driver? We don't know - but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - shoot it!

C'mon. "Andy Priaulx was selected by BMW UK, the British arm of BMW, to represent them in the 2003 ETCC after his brief but successful period in the British Touring Car Championship (BTCC). Finishing 3rd in his first year of ETCC, Andy then won the 2004 ETCC and the subsequent 2005 WTCC title" http://www.andypriau.../wtcc2006.shtml

Performancewise Andy's BMW is as works as the German BMWs.
Hasn't it crossed your mind that keeping Andy in a British team is simply based on British focused PR strategy?

BTW -
"Although on the BMW Team UK national team in WTCC, Andy was part of the BMW works team who won the prestigious Nurburgring 24 hours. He was also an official test driver for BMW Williams F1" http://www.andypriaulx.com/ap/
Wouldn't surprise me if he'll do more F1 testing now Jacques is gone.

[BRG]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Hasn't it crossed your mind that keeping Andy in a British team is simply based on British focused PR strategy?

It isn't a British team. If you had read on a bit further on his website, it says:- "Andy’s BMW Team UK race car is engineered and run by crack Team RBM from Belgium and their inspirational team principal, Bart Mampaey." The UK has a lot of touring car expertise - there are plenty of UK teams, yet BMW Team UK is Belgian. : So much for the British focused PR strategy?

These 'BMW Team Somewheres' are subsidiary teams supported by the local BMW company or importer, not by BMW proper. So we have Zanardi as BMW Italia and so on. They are not the annointed, official, works BMW Bavaria team (Schnitzer). They may get equal equipment, but then the Super 2000 formula used in WTCC doesn't permit of much in-season development anyway. Neverthless, they are second flight teams. It must be really galling for the boys in Munchen that one of them keep mullering the Mullers. The point remains that BMW haven't brought the WTCC champion in-house to their most favoured team. Why not?

I suspect the testing for Williams was as much due to Williams as it was to BMW. Priaulx hasn't tested a BMW-Sauber has he?

[Hyatt]

Originally posted by bnlflo
being German myself, I could well live without the Schumacher brothers, and I don't need Heidfeld on the grid either. Rosberg and Sutil would be enough.

dito ... but add Glock to the list

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by BRG
The point remains that BMW haven't brought the WTCC champion in-house to their most favoured team. Why not?

He's doing perfectly allright as it is, and brings BMW points for the constructor's championship. And those Belgians are doing a perfect job for BMW UK, there's no reason to think that any other would do better.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by BRG

I suspect the testing for Williams was as much due to Williams as it was to BMW. Priaulx hasn't tested a BMW-Sauber has he?

He had a go at spinning the F1 car in the BMW Pitlane Park in Silverstone. Does that count?

[BRG]

Originally posted by scheivlak
He's doing perfectly allright as it is

Yes, he is, and more power to him.

But it does make you wonder why BMW continues to favour two German drivers over a more successful non-German driver - which is the theme of this thread.