127 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Of course when German drivers were banned post-WW2 in international events Stuck decided he was Austrian.

It is a bit weird though that you had Germanophones like Lauda, Siffert, Rindt et al with great success in F1 (and other promising ones like Koinigg and Buerger) but comparatively fewer from Germany itself. Maybe if the likes of Mitter had concentrated on circuit single-seaters there could have been more of an impact from Deutschland.

[Chui]

Just take one look at the specs of their current passenger cars and you can see that they are becoming less & less Teutonic with each model update, unfortunately...

[Sakae]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chui
Just take one look at the specs of their current passenger cars and you can see that they are becoming less & less Teutonic with each model update, unfortunately... [/QUOTE How about you learning German, the language of Goethe instead? New skill could be an eye opener for you, as you might find people who are rich in history and culture. Schnitzel, by the way is a common dish in whole central Europe, originating (probably) in Austria. I thought that you might want to know that, should you decide to visit that beautiflul part of Europe.

In the case that your learning will be rather inadequate, you will find out that most of young Europeans do speak two or three languages quite fluently, and they will take care of you - just in case and you get lost.

[Speed_Racer]

Getting back to the topic, here is more evidence to support N3NP's observations :


The BMW rear wing @ the Brazilian GP, Interlagos this year :





And here's what Dr.T had to say about it : BMW motorsport chief Mario Theissen said: "The most successful driver of all time is retiring, he did a lot for the sport and because of him, especially in Germany, F1 is very popular.

"As a thank you to Michael Schumacher we have 'Thanks Michael' and 'Danke Michael' on the rear wings of our cars."

[Sizzle]

Originally posted by MiPe


In the case that your learning will be rather inadequate, you will find out that most of young Europeans do speak two or three languages quite fluently, and they will take care of you - just in case and you get lost. [/B]

Most young Europeans do.......not the young Germans though.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by Group B
Well Taffy von Tripps wasn't too shoddy, and in pre F1 days there was Rudi Caracciola, Rosemeyer, von Brauchitsch, Stuck, Lang, ....

Yes, but most of the above mentioned weren't even 2nd or 3rd in WDC and as you mentioned German drivers had early involvement in F1.

I'm not saying that drivers from any particular country are bad, by definition, only that it was strange not to have a German WDC before MS.

[Sizzle]

Haug must also be reading Atlas.....

http://www.f1-live.c...231143647.shtml

[metz]

Norbert is delusional if he thinks Ron will ever hire a German driver.
"I see no reason why we should not have a German driver in the cockpit," Haug said, "as soon as the opportunity arises and it makes sense."
The opportunity did arise and it did make sense. Nick Heidfeld comes to mind. He had earned the right as an outstanding test driver and beat Kimi on most criteria but right or wrong, RD would NOT have MB dictate drivers. And if Ron wanted Kimi, he could have had Nick the following year.
No, Ron won't have it. And that's how it will be.
So, Norbert can say what he wants. The reality is quite different.
edit: I hope he does read Atlas....

[Sakae]

Mercedes has invested a lot of Euro currency into this; why it should be surprising to anyone if the brass at Stuttgart ask a simple question, why our national cannot represent our brand. They must see something in the way BMW conducts their business, and it's probably good for them.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by metz
The opportunity did arise and it did make sense. Nick Heidfeld comes to mind. He had earned the right as an outstanding test driver and beat Kimi on most criteria but right or wrong, RD would NOT have MB dictate drivers. And if Ron wanted Kimi, he could have had Nick the following year.

Yes, McLaren has run a F3000 specially for Heidfeld.
Witmarsh was running it.
Nick rocked the place and still it was not enough to guarantee a F1 seat.

However Mark Webber thinks Mercedes would indicate him to a seat at McLaren, despite not being the fastest driver of the Mercedes' GT programe (Zonta ) and not having a F3000 team build for him.

[Peri_Piket]

And indeed the Germans are too self focused.

They don't translate their sites to English
F1Total.com
Auto Motor und Sport
Racing1.de

Also Autosprint doesn't have a decent site either.

[metz]

Originally posted by Peri_Piket

Yes, McLaren has run a F3000 specially for Heidfeld.
Witmarsh was running it.
Nick rocked the place and still it was not enough to guarantee a F1 seat.

However Mark Webber thinks Mercedes would indicate him to a seat at McLaren, despite not being the fastest driver of the Mercedes' GT programe (Zonta ) and not having a F3000 team build for him.

So Ron is interested in Webber, although Heidfeld clearly outperformed him at Williams.
I rest my case.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Peri_Piket
And indeed the Germans are too self focused.

They don't translate their sites to English
F1Total.com
Auto Motor und Sport
Racing1.de

Also Autosprint doesn't have a decent site either.

So much more reasons to learn their language then...

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by MiPe
So much more reasons to learn their language then...

Yes, they are very competent, indeed.

So I should learn Finish to read the Thunder Samurai? :

It's their problem, I will bring my virtual audience to other sites and they will make a profit with it in their adds, virtual store, signatures, etc...

[HoldenRT]

Originally posted by metz

So Ron is interested in Webber, although Heidfeld clearly outperformed him at Williams.
I rest my case.

You misread his quote.

What he meant was that Webber has recently said (the news story is very recent, check autosport news) that when he first entered F1, Mercedes would have given him a drive (because of his connections with them) but McLaren wouldn't have been interested. And that now that "might" have changed and Mercedes now might have more input into driver selection.

This is going back 6 years or so, nothing to do with what Ron thinks of Webber in 06.

He was arguing that Webber is wrong but I don't know enough about it to argue that part one way or the other. I do know enough about Webber vs Heidfeld but couldn't be bothered trying to change your opinion on it.

Just trying to let you know what he meant, Webber hadn't even driven for Williams at that stage.

The point is, Webber thinks Mercedes have more power in choosing drivers these days. And that is relevant to the topic because that might increase the chance of a German driver in the future, since Haug has said he'd like a German driver.

[united]

OK, Webber is talking again. This guy should host a talk show, really. Once I have a nice argument on this forum about drivers who crucially need to express his mind at least decently. That’s another case. How can a guy seriously believe he would have appeared in McLaren judging by some sportscar racing only?

Heidfeld can tell you a thing or two about drivers’ selection in McLaren. But instead of whining about the lost chances Heidfeld has really restored himself as the leader of a top team without anybody who could "have a say".

I suggest that Webber should really start performing in 2007 or his occasional revelations would be even more ridiculous.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Peri_Piket

Yes, they are very competent, indeed.

So I should learn Finish to read the Thunder Samurai? :

It's their problem, I will bring my virtual audience to other sites and they will make a profit with it in their adds, virtual store, signatures, etc...

In your post No. 111 you had mentioned only German sources, and my response is, should you be interested what the articles say, pehaps you could learn the language, and thus satisfy your intellectual curiosity, instead being lazy, and expected that everyone must serve you your daily dose of news with least amount of pain. You of course don't have to accept my advise, and continue to complain instead, solution that you probably will choose anyway.

[FreeRider]

Hello

I have a different opinion about the national preference within a Formula 1 team. I think it isn't a problem, maybe it is even a virtue because of creating a special personality which is the way to differ from those marketing focused international teams which are trying to act by the regulations (gain personal success, which might not even arise from results) and have no ambitions for being useful to the sport (unlike private teams like Jordan, Prost, Minardi that sadly don't exist anymore and seem never going to). Cultural differences only enrich Formula 1. I think most of you agree that new racing tracks are all similar and dull despite better overtaking spots, facilities, security etc. They just have a lack of that special aura which makes a race interesting even without too much action. The same goes to teams, which enables to gain a permanent fanbase. Even drivers are getting more "international." After losing Montoya, Schumacher and Villeneuve there seem to be a bunch of dogs that bark similarly and obey their masters (without SOME exceptions of course).

I don't want McDonalds' or Coca Cola in every part of the world, I don't want tracks that have all the same appearance and neutral minded attendance, I don't want teams that differ from each other only by their liveries.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Owen


I suspect the german 'focus' is a directive that comes from the top, i.e. the management is german. If the management had a more international flavour (like Mclaren or Toyota etc) then perhaps the bias would be less obvious? until then, it's Deutschland über alles!

You suspect right - regarding management. Otherwise you are wet behind your ears as one can get.

BMW is a German family owned company which does their business as they see fit. In contrast maybe to other countries, Germany has a lot of companies with business continuation and pedigree in excess of 100 years and longer. I don't see anything wrong with it.

I have purchased a cooking utencile - mainly for sentimental reasons - from a family owned company which is in business without interruptions almost 400 years. Now, that's good achievement.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by MiPe
In your post No. 111 you had mentioned only German sources, and my response is, should you be interested what the articles say, pehaps you could learn the language, and thus satisfy your intellectual curiosity, instead being lazy, and expected that everyone must serve you your daily dose of news with least amount of pain. You of course don't have to accept my advise, and continue to complain instead, solution that you probably will choose anyway.

You're right, I won't learn German... not because I'm lazy, but bcs I'm selective.

I would love to have those sites content, but I should rather study other issues related to my professional development than increase my dose of auto racing news.
AMuS is the only content I really miss, bcs I like European Cars and the american magazine is not enought for me.

I already know a bit of English and it is the closest thing to telephaty you can get.
I mean talking to other interesting "open minded" people around the world, that - like me - are wants to learn.

Have a nice year.

Ps. I understand your bad mood... the MS abstinence ;)

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Peri_Piket

You're right, I won't learn German... not because I'm lazy, but bcs I'm selective....

I wish you luck then.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by metz
Norbert is delusional if he thinks Ron will ever hire a German driver.
"I see no reason why we should not have a German driver in the cockpit," Haug said, "as soon as the opportunity arises and it makes sense."
The opportunity did arise and it did make sense. Nick Heidfeld comes to mind. He had earned the right as an outstanding test driver and beat Kimi on most criteria but right or wrong, RD would NOT have MB dictate drivers. And if Ron wanted Kimi, he could have had Nick the following year.
No, Ron won't have it. And that's how it will be.
So, Norbert can say what he wants. The reality is quite different.
edit: I hope he does read Atlas....

Hmm...I´d say Nick had two problems in 2001:

1) Kimi was rookie, with approx 20 junior formula races under his belt. Nick had 2 years of F3000, one year of McLaren testing, and one year of F1 racing.

2) Performance-wise, 2001 can be divided to 3 parts. In first races, Nick had the upper hand. But from there, Kimi catched him and was actually outperforming his teammate. That was the moment when McLaren made their driver choice. Immediately after the contract was announced, Nick got the upper hand again. It was later revealed by Kimi that equal treatment ended to the day when he choosed to leave the team (some of the newer parts were only given to Nick, possibly because of Sauber-Ferrari connection?).

So while Nick, at least judged by stats, was marginally better over the entire season, during the time McLaren had to find replacement for Mika, the less experienced Sauber driver was looking like better prospect for the future.

[Peri_Piket]

And just to give my final say about it...

Remember when Enzo was alive?
Ferrari used to be a tutto Italia team.
In those glory days he only used italian technicians, most of his suppliers were italian but not his drivers.
He finally realized sometimes he was short on technology or in key people.
Then right before his death he decided to allow his racing team to have the best no matter from were it cam from.
Enzo hired John Barnard and let him have a Ferrari branch in England.

That was the first step that allowed Ferrari to be what it is today.

What I mean is it's dull to restrict your resources and focus in a single country.
Ultimatelly you are just weakening yourself.
Whyle your competitors have the whole world to supply them with the best, you are stuck in your own trapp.

I don't think Super Mario fill fall in this trapp.
Herr Theissen will hire non-German people/parts whenever necessary.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by Spunout
So while Nick, at least judged by stats, was marginally better over the entire season, during the time McLaren had to find replacement for Mika, the less experienced Sauber driver was looking like better prospect for the future.

IMO, Kimi has more naturall tallent than Nick.
But Nick has been working harder than Kimi over the years, developing his skills and car set-up.
Therefore I wouldn't risk to say that nowadays Kimi is so much better than Nick.
I believe it's a very close call and Nick would fit the Ferrari workaholic style better than Kimi.

[Sakae]

It's an utter myth that Germans are nationalistic in their purchasing habits. If we must, I would associate such tendency with US citizens before anyone else. They are so obssessed with it, that even gardnen spatula bears US flag on it, just to make sure that consumer knows which spatula is "right to buy". Germans usually buy the best product they can afford, and it's that way for as long as my memory goes. It's mere coincidence, that many quality products are made right at home, in Germany. Not too many can say the same.

[Zoe]

One cannot (and should not) generalize, but in general (see ) I see the trend in Germany to buy cheap. At the same time complaining about German companies and factories closing down with all the production sites and jobs moving to asia, while clutching a box with the latest flat-screen TV in it labeled "made in china".

Luckily this trend is slowly changing again towards a more focused and sensible way of buying high-value stuff.

Zoe

[united]

Originally posted by Peri_Piket
Therefore I wouldn't risk to say that nowadays Kimi is so much better than Nick.
I believe it's a very close call and Nick would fit the Ferrari workaholic style better than Kimi.

I think some people in McLaren may really regret signing Kimi Raikkonen, because apart from sheer talent this guy in my opinion has little to offer.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Zoe
One cannot (and should not) generalize, but in general (see ) I see the trend in Germany to buy cheap. At the same time complaining about German companies and factories closing down with all the production sites and jobs moving to asia, while clutching a box with the latest flat-screen TV in it labeled "made in china".

Luckily this trend is slowly changing again towards a more focused and sensible way of buying high-value stuff.

Zoe

I am not much updated on the consumer market, but in terms of manufacturing technology investement - trust me, only the very best will do. That's what I see every day with partners I have.