98 replies to this topic

[Richard Jenkins]

Yes, I know this is the TNF but it is worth mentioning the sheer number of historic achievements following what was probably the best race in aeons. Certainly, it's been the first time since Nurburgring 1999 that I have stayed riveted the whole way through watching the action:-

1) First win for Jenson Button
2) The 200th WC GP win for a British driver
3) The first English driver to win since Damon Hill in 1999.
4) The first new English driver to win since Johnny Herbert in 1995.
5) Honda's (and Japan's) 1st win since John Surtees won in 1967.
6) The first British driver to win since Coulthard in 2003.

7) Pedro de la Rosa's first podium
8) BMW's first ever podium

9) Kubica became the first ever Polish driver to score points (on his debut too)

10) The first GP neither Schumacher or Alonso have finished in the points since 2004. (I think)

I'm sure there were more. How long has it been since someone who qualified lower than 14th won a GP, for example?

[Twin Window]

Nine days short of thirty years since a GP was won by a driver sporting a beard.

Hill's last win was 1998, BTW.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins

I'm sure there were more. How long has it been since someone who qualified lower than 14th won a GP, for example?

Without checking - the 2000 German GP (another crazy race) with Rubens coming from something like 18th or so?

Nice to hear that Japanese anthem for a change!

[FLB]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
I'm sure there were more. How long has it been since someone who qualified lower than 14th won a GP, for example?

Edit: I forgot about Germany 2000... (Barrichello did go from 18th to first)

First Grand Prix win for a Honda V8 (I'm including the ill-fated 1968 effort).

[frogeye59]

Speaking as someone who has largley been ambivalent about modern Grand Prix for a decade or so, that was un doubtedley the most exciting and action packed for ages. It's some time since Ive been out of my seat shouting at the tele for a GP, but the pass Fernando put on the German in the wet was right out of the top drawer, outstanding.

And a British win to boot, yeeeees, Go Jenson Go, knew he would do it !!!




David

[Wolf]

ISTR wins from 16th or 18th place in recent years- Hockenheim for Barrichello (2000?) and 16th for MS in '95...

Ineteresting race- and I do feel the 'historic' context is a bit overhyped (appropriate considering who the winner was ). I'm not 'taking a dig', Richie- it was thoroughly enjoyable race and the rarity of such occurences demands historic perspective to take a back-seat to savouring the moment.

BTW, I was actually enjoying 'old fart' MS tigering it and taking the gamble 'on the track'- pity he was Schumachered costing him all, but refreshing sight none the less.

[Bjorn Kjer]

First time for a long time I did not fall asleep.....you are all 3 right , but Richtchie your no. 8 :
correct would be BMW Sauber (this year only ?)

[macoran]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Nine days short of thirty years since a GP was won by a driver sporting a beard.

1st ever win for a driver with chin fuzz

[Bjorn Kjer]

sorry RICHIE !

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
First time for a long time I did not fall asleep.....you are all 3 right , but Richtchie your no. 8 :
correct would be BMW Sauber (this year only ?)

As far as I'm concerned, the team is BMW. If it was Sauber-BMW maybe, but it ain't and old man Sauber has happily retired. Seeing as they didn't make any podiums in their brief foray in the 1950's, I count this as their first podium. But that's me.

Wolfie, I would actually rather PDLR had won meself, so this isn't a jingoistic thread, but one to say that this really was (and will be) a historic race.

Sorry about the Hill mistake. Old age.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Nine days short of thirty years since a GP was won by a driver sporting a beard.

Call that a beard? And, "sporting a beard?" By jove, what a frightfully quaint turn of phrase. ;)

[DetroitFlame]

Originally posted by Vanwall


Call that a beard? And, "sporting a beard?" By jove, what a frightfully quaint turn of phrase. ;)

You call that mess on his chin a beard........ .....................But to say Congratulations Jenson Button for a job well done........Finally you got there. Lets hope there are many more to come.

[Gary Davies]

Seconded!

[DOHC]

Great race, some really good driving, changing conditions and changing fortunes, exciting until the finish line.

[ensign14]

Tyrrell's first win since Detroit 1983.

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
2) The 200th WC GP win for a British driver

Only the 190th, I think.

It's still the highest national total - next up being Germany on 101, then France and Brazil tied on 79.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Tim Murray

Only the 190th, I think.

It's still the highest national total - next up being Germany on 101, then France and Brazil tied on 79.

No, it's 191st in WDC events since 1950. Generally, there should be much more if one takes all GPs since 1950 and even more if one takes in regard pre-war GPs. And, of course, less if one counts only current Championship (from '81).

Richie, I know it's not about blowing one's trumpet.

[soubriquet]

Excellent race. Japanese TV were wetting themselves afterwards. There was a slight problem in that the programme is sponsored by Toyota.

Congratulations Honda, true racers. Congratulations JB.

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Wolf
No, it's 191st in WDC events since 1950.

Are you sure, Wolf? I checked the figures several times before posting, and got 190 each time (plus double-checking by adding all the countries' scores to give the current WC GP total of 752).

[David M. Kane]

Pitpass had a contest and I picked Jenson to win and to have fastest lap. Turns out he had 4th fastest lap. The 1st one is what really counts.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Tim Murray

Are you sure, Wolf? I checked the figures several times before posting, and got 190 each time (plus double-checking by adding all the countries' scores to give the current WC GP total of 752).

Tim- I'm not.;) Here's the link to the french site I've bookmarked (they have lap charts).

EDIT: Seeing there's Edmund Irvine on the list, shouldn't those listed be United Kingdom rather than British wins? Just out of curiosity is official name still UK of GB and NI?

[LB]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
3) The first English driver to win since Damon Hill in 1999.

Johny Herbert Nurburgring 1999

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Wolf


Tim- I'm not.;) Here's the link to the french site I've bookmarked (they have lap charts).

EDIT: Seeing there's Edmund Irvine on the list, shouldn't those listed be United Kingdom rather than British wins? Just out of curiosity is official name still UK of GB and NI?

I just noticed their error (it was in the first place I looked)- they count Moss/Brooks '57 British GP win for two.

EDIT: In current C'ship Germany leads with something like 98 wins against British/UK 78.

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Wolf

I just noticed their error (it was in the first place I looked)- they count Moss/Brooks '57 British GP win for two.

That would explain the discrepancy - I did wonder if that might be the reason.. Thanks for checking that one out, Wolf.

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Nine days short of thirty years since a GP was won by a driver sporting a beard.

Hill's last win was 1998, BTW.

Wattie had a beard.

Bonnier had a beard.

I had a better 'beard' than JB when I was 14...

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins

9) Kubica became the first ever Polish driver to score points (on his debut too)

Only to be disqualified due to an underweight car...

Originally posted by Vicuna

I had a better 'beard' than JB when I was 14...

Bless him - it's the best he can do!

[Vicuna]

Do you think James Allan actually did climax?

[Bjorn Kjer]

The F1 team racing with BMW engines and the drivers Heidfeld and Villeneuve/Kubica is the old Sauber team which was bought by BMW , reorganized and made bigger in Germany and Suisse. The name of the team is:

B.M.W-Sauber

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by ensign14
Tyrrell's first win since Detroit 1983.

Aye, I could picture a retired "Uncle Ken" sat out in the back garden dividing his attention between the Test match and the GP.... Still think BAR treated him and his staff in a phenomenally shabby way. RIP Chopper.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by LB


Johny Herbert Nurburgring 1999

That's the last time I post about historic achievements, without consulting FORIX first.

[macoran]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Pitpass had a contest and I picked Jenson to win and to have fastest lap. Turns out he had 4th fastest lap. The 1st one is what really counts.

Mighty brave of you to do so...........

Would you have told us if he hadn't won ??

[David M. Kane]

Macoran:

I guess, but would we be having this conversation if he hadn't won? Let's remember, in the past, I probably trashed him more than others; but I went to the USGP this year and I was in the infield during qualifying...I was impressed by actually seeing his smoothness and the Honda seemed in the right direction. I think Ruben and Gil have been a big help too.

Lastly, I have trashed Nick Frye without mercy. He has kept his composure under enormous pressure, so let's give him a little credit too.

[HDonaldCapps]

[ensign14]

Originally posted by David M. Kane

Lastly, I have trashed Nick Frye without mercy. He has kept his composure under enormous pressure, so let's give him a little credit too.

I think he got a bit lucky with his calls - in that there seemed to be 1 pit stop too many. Had Fred not blown his whatever JB would have lost by the distance of a pit stop...

Seems that Honda, at last, has got its stuff together. Whatever was wrong with the wind tunnel seems to have been sorted, though - it's the 2nd race on the trot that they've looked competitive.

BTW, Don, whatever you do don't go here...I fear you might explode.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by ensign14

Whatever was wrong with the wind tunnel seems to have been sorted...

I believe a 1/2 scale got loose and propelled itself into tho mechanism. With some force...

The thread you linked to just about sums-up the contemporary fanbase for me.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I believe a 1/2 scale got loose and propelled itself into tho mechanism. With some force...

I'd heard that as well, only it was a full scale chassis that was written off...I guess it increases with each telling.

[Twin Window]

It's probably me getting it wrong, Ens - frankly I couldn't give a toss, so I probably wasn't listening that closely.

[bigears]

Giancarlo Fisichella and Jenson Button share a similar feat.

They won their first GP in their 7th year of racing in F1 and they certainly won in similar circumstances!

(Fissi won at the wet Interlagos race in 2003 with his Jordan-Cosworth)

[LB]

Originally posted by Wolf
ISTR wins from 16th or 18th place in recent years- Hockenheim for Barrichello (2000?) and 16th for MS in '95...

Kimi won Japan last year from 17th so you don't have to go that far back

[Wolf]

Originally posted by LB


Kimi won Japan last year from 17th so you don't have to go that far back

[mode=lame excuse]Actually, I didn't watch that race[/mode]. Last season I must've missed half a dozen races, JPN being one of them- and I figure it's more than I missed in a whole decade (very close to matching the total in those years)... Come to think of it, only in '96 and '89 I was close to matching so many missed races, both times because I was in the army (first time compulsory 1yr service, 2nd being drafted for 7 months).

[LB]

I missed Japan last year too. I was at work on the boat in the med and the start time conflicted with me actually having to do something on my shift. I missed 99% of the race. I got home hoping that my parents had taped it as agreed. They had - they just taped China over the top...So I still haven't seen it

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps

[Andrew Kitson]

Well done to Jenson and all at Brackley including my old pal Gil.
I always thought JB was an awesome talent in FF in '98 and F3 in '99, but like many
wondered if Honda could ever give him the chance to win.
Very pleased that promise has finally produced a GP win and hopefully the first of many.
Never having followed karting much I hear that his main rivals on the kart track were
Dan Wheldon and Anthony Davidson. Anthony did a great job on the commentary I
thought, now let's see someone put him in a race seat where he belongs so he can
race against JB again, not decide on the tyre choice for him on a Friday as Honda
third/test driver.

[Bjorn Kjer]

To me it has been a pleasure to follow this thread , it has confirmed my feelings that on the TNF discussions are mostly done in a much friendlier tone than on "the other". I think as on most iTNF threadsi ts an exchange/share of views and again some small faults has been corrected, so
its to me nice that a "latest race" can be that nostalgic.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
... its to me nice that a "latest race" can be that nostalgic.

Oh not so quick, you can just about guarantee there will be harrumphing telephone calls and furtive meetings in smoky bars even as we speak amongst the chassis number brigade!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
To me it has been a pleasure to follow this thread , it has confirmed my feelings that on the TNF discussions are mostly done in a much friendlier tone than on "the other". I think as on most iTNF threadsi ts an exchange/share of views and again some small faults has been corrected, so
its to me nice that a "latest race" can be that nostalgic.

We used to do these "Historic Grand Prix of ..." threads quite regularly, Bjorn. But of course, in the past few years less and less of historic significance has occurred. It's just been "same old same old"

The last one I can remember was also from Hungary, all of three years ago:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=60574

It contains a particularly prescient comment from Maldwyn!

[jph]

First GP that I've stayed awake through for ages - including this year's British GP where I actually managed to doze off in the grandstand. Irrespective of the result, what the race demonstrated more than anything else is how much more interesting (or even, dare I say it, exciting) it is when overtaking is possible and pit stops involve more than just bolting on and filling up with more of the same. The weather and incidents in Hungary seem to add further weight to the argument that in normal (dry) conditions aerodynamic grip plus electronic driver aids have killed the spectacle. We saw more racecraft yeaterday - rather than pitcraft - than in just about every other race this season combined. Ironic that it should have happened at one of those circuits where 'overtaking is impossible'.

[BRG]

Does this mean that Jenson Button is now statistically a better driver than Chris Amon?


[enters blast bunker and locks heavy steel door]

[Gary Davies]

A good point. What I think I saw was a rare occasion in the contemporary form of the sport in which the equation shifted from 90% car and 10% driver to what ... 75% car and 25% driver?

Whatever ... my issue for a long time has been that whereas +or- 40 years ago the very best technology (DFV, monocoque chassis) still provided for the driver to be a significant part of the equation.

(Edit. One was referring to jph's post, not BRG's bold but otherwise excellent post. )

[john aston]

Am delighted at Button's win; I watched him in FF and F3 and rated him, but not as highly as Davidson and Sato( who is the most exciting driver I have ever seen in F3).Jenson's fluid style is so beguiling to watch compared to the sturm and drang of a Raikkonen - or anyone unfortunate enough to be driving a Midland .But the best thing about Hungarian GP was the opening laps and watching Alonso- utterly and completely on top of his game.Loved his approach to taking different lines - looked as though he had a bigger race track than anyone else to play on.