48 replies to this topic

[molive]

The last race is one of them! Ok, maybe not totally chaotic, but for sure it was action-packed, fun to watch and with some susprise results.

Anyway, the 2003 Brazilian GP gets my vote as the most "chaotic" wet race of recent times.

I was reviewing the video, and there were so many lead changes, a bunch of cars parked in the same spot after the Senna S (including Schummy). There was Barrichelo parking it while in the lead (oh boy), and then that massive shunt by Webbo and Alonso at the end, which brought a red flag and gave a "on fire" (literally) Fisico the win (which was initially given to Kimi!).

Can't think of any other race that compare to that...

[Clatter]

Spa 98 has to beat them all.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Clatter
Spa 98 has to beat them all.

I'd agree with that.

If we are looking at the entire of F1 history though, I think a few others must be considered.

The one that Jean Beltoise popped up to in at Monaco in a BRM ('72?) sounded pretty insane, as did the craziness of '84 where Senna and Bellof were busy carving through the field and Mansell was chucking it away up front.

All good fun.

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by Clatter
Spa 98 has to beat them all.

Spa 98 gets my vote too. DC is often "blamed" for the massive pile up but it was actually Eddie Irvine that started it off by taging DC from behind. I'm sure Eddie admits it in his book.

[clampett]

Interestingly history forgot the extremely chaotic Nurburgring 1999 race. But it was a hair-raising one with retiring leaders and some big accidents. Definately one of those candidates...

[random]

Spa '98 was chaotic. But the 1996 race in Monaco was just as crazy.

Here is the full race report.

Olivier Panis was the winner and only FOUR cars managed to finish the event. The fewest number of finishers in F1 history. (fewer even than that '05 Indy nonsense)

[cheesy poofs]

Canada 1989 was a classic.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Canada 1989 was a classic.

Legend Cheesy Poofs
poof POOF POOF, good selection there, and I also like that as well. Canada gives the scent of Crescent Street through the herbs of the track

[911]

Although it wasn't exactly a "wet" race, I'd say the 1982 Monaco GP has to rank as one of the wildest. Even Patrese didn't even know he had won once he crossed the finish line.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by 911
Although it wasn't exactly a "wet" race, I'd say the 1982 Monaco GP has to rank as one of the wildest. Even Patrese didn't even know he had won once he crossed the finish line.

:up:Porsche 911
We should add Silverstone 1998 also, DC went off so many times, MS winning the race by diving through the pit to serve a penality, that was a f1 first wasn't iT! THE DRAMA!!!

[Twin Window]

Canada 1973 has to be in the reckoning, as does Adelaide 1989 ...

[WHITE]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Canada 1973 has to be in the reckoning, as does Adelaide 1989 ...

British GP 1975

[gerry nassar]

In the last decade, i'd say:

Spa 98
Brazil 03
Hungary 06
Nurburgring 99

[Shiftin]

Amazing you guys can rememeber that all. Of course I remember Spa 98. But that's the only one together with Malaysia 01,02? But that's only because Jos had the best race of his career.

[fisssssi]

Brazil 2003

[HoldenRT]

Originally posted by fisssssi
Brazil 2003

One of the rare races where Fisi can finish the race and not bin it in the wall/tyres.

[aisiai]

Monaco '96 should get a vote. Maybe not that much chaotic, but with so many retiring
while at the front and with only 4-5 finishers or so...

[mikedeering]

For action throughout and with the winner not being confirmed until days later, it has to be Brazil 2003. I think virtually every driver claimed they should have won afterwards - and most had a decent case.

Surprised Magny-Cours 99 hasn't been mentioned yet. Silverstone 88 was pretty good fun - especially Mansell and Nannini fighting through the field.

[ensign14]

Canada 73 MUST be the most chaotic as no-one is ABSOLUTELY sure who really won that race...the record books say Revson but there is a compelling case to be made for Fittipaldi and less compelling ones for Oliver and Ganley.

[Dudley]

I'm not sure Spa 98 really was that chaotic.

It was only one incident.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Dudley
I'm not sure Spa 98 really was that chaotic.

It was only one incident.

Remember the first start? I think that's why I can still remember Ricardo Rosset

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Dudley
I'm not sure Spa 98 really was that chaotic.

It was only one incident.

Massive shunt at the start, biggest I can remember, plus the MS/DC incident, still very much talked about.

[mtl'78]

I remember the Euro GP of 1999 being totally crazy, with 4-5 leading cars going out then the masters of the pitlane Ferrari having only 3 wheels ready for Irvine's car when he was looking at an easy victory. I think Herbert won it in the end for Stewart.

There was also one of the Malaysian GP ('02, '03?) where it started raining so heavily one lap that nearly half the grid spun off.

[HBoss]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Remember the first start? I think that's why I can still remember Ricardo Rosset

And then Fisichella on some japanese driver whose name I've forgotten.
Nakagima, maybe?

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by HBoss


And then Fisichella on some japanese driver whose name I've forgotten.
Nakagima, maybe?

Nakano. Fischella did a nice instant imitation of what happenend just before between Michael and Coulthard: http://www.forix.com...13&c=49&p=6&o=1

[WACKO]

Originally posted by Dudley
I'm not sure Spa 98 really was that chaotic.

It was only one incident.

Definitely not so. I was there. You could count the drivers that had not been in a crash or at least a spin on one hand. Mind you, Fisichella, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Barrichello, Schumacher & Coulthard, Irvine. They were all out through incidents. Not just by the crash through La Source. It was litterally flooded by incidents.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

What about Adelaide '91? So crazy they stopped it after 14 laps. The main straight was littered with debris at the time.

[man from martinlaakso]

Gerry Nassar, you wrote :"In the last decade, i'd say:

Spa 98
Brazil 03
Hungary 06
Nurburgring 99"


I agree with that list.

In Spa 98 DC lost his car immediately after the start and managed to bump to several other cars, so that half of the field was eliminated. In the second start MH tried to block MS, spun and crashed with another car. Later DC slowed in a totally wrong place to let MS to lap him, and Michael bumped to his car (DC's fault). The first lap incident was very impressive, it was like somebody had blown a bomb.

In Brazil 03 it seemed that the SC was on the track almost every now and then. Several drivers crashed including MS, the final crash ended the race prematurely. GF won, but without the several SC episodes, he would not have had any chance to get to the podoum. The Ferrari team managed to let RB without sufficient amount of fuel and he had a DNF because of that (because of faulty equpment the Ferrari team could not know, how much RB's car consumed fuel, so they made an estimate according to MS's car, and got it wrong).

The last race was a havoc, especially during the opening laps. Later the conditions improved.

In Nuerburgring the Mac team guessd the weather wrong and called MH in and changed wet weather tyres to him, although the rain stopped almost immediately when Mika came back to track. The team had to call him back and give him dry weather tyres and huge amount of fuel. When the rain restarted soon after that, Mika had some problems. DC had a better race, but when the team asked him to come in and change to wet weather tyres, DC refused and crashed out during the next lap.
Eddie Irvine was called in for wet weather tyres, but he changed his mind when he was a couple hundred meters from the pits. The Ferrari crew had to find dry weather tyres in a few seconds and one of the tyres was lost. Everything was OK, except one tyre was missing. However, it was found and soon after that EI passed KR, who at that stage was slower than a Minardi (wet weather tyres on an almost dry track are not optimal). EI came to his planned second pit stop and got wet weather tyres, but immediately when he was back on the track, the rain ended, and Eddie had to come to the pits once more, which gave MH the opportunity to catch him. Johnny Herbert won this race and when one sees the tape from this race, one might think, that both Ferrari and Mac teams made their very best effort to sabotage their driver's races.

[PCC]

Canada 1973 gets my vote. My father was one of the the PA announcers at Mosport in those days. Official timing and lapscoring were done downstairs in the control tower, but crammed into the upstairs announcing booth with my Dad were an unofficial lapsorer (a guy named Mike Wall, as I recall), and an unofficial timer (me). The race started wet, and as conditions dried cars started peeling off into the pits. Remember - this was a time when pitstops in F1 were only undertaken in dire emergencies; lapcharts were done by hand and their accuracy in such circumstances depended on the manual dexterity and speed of the person keeping the chart. To have the whole field suddenly tearing into and out of the pits was a nightmare. By the time the cars were all back on the track, everyone trying to keep a lapchart was in a daze... during gaps between cars, Mike tried frantically to re-build his tattered lapchart, and ended up pretty certain that Fittipaldi was leading. Others keeping charts nearby seemed to agree. My Dad announced the rest of the race based on that, and on lap 80, starter Wally Branston waved the chequered flag... to Peter Revson.

The resulting chaos was comical - at least to those who had no stake in the outcome. I remember Rob Walker (who was affiliated with Team Surtees at the time) later writing in Road & Track: "At the end of the race nobody knew who the hell had won it. We only knew it wasn't us." Someone else suggested that the win be awarded to James Hunt, as Lord Hesketh would be sure to throw the best victory party. Many hours later, Revson was declared the official winner, but to this day many are convinced that Fittipaldi actually won the race.

Historical postscript: the race was also memorable for being dominated in its early, wet stages by a young BRM driver who was almost unknown at the time - Niki Lauda, who later went on to considerable fame as owner of an airline. And it was also the last race driven by one JYS, the last driven by his brilliant and charismatic teammate, and the last win by Peter Revson.

Sorry if this really belongs on TNF, but since the race had already been mentioned....

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by PCC
Canada 1973 gets my vote. My father was one of the the PA announcers at Mosport in those days. Official timing and lapscoring were done downstairs in the control tower, but crammed into the upstairs announcing booth with my Dad were an unofficial lapsorer (a guy named Mike Wall, as I recall), and an unofficial timer (me). The race started wet, and as conditions dried cars started peeling off into the pits. Remember - this was a time when pitstops in F1 were only undertaken in dire emergencies; lapcharts were done by hand and their accuracy in such circumstances depended on the manual dexterity and speed of the person keeping the chart. To have the whole field suddenly tearing into and out of the pits was a nightmare. By the time the cars were all back on the track, everyone trying to keep a lapchart was in a daze... during gaps between cars, Mike tried frantically to re-build his tattered lapchart, and ended up pretty certain that Fittipaldi was leading. Others keeping charts nearby seemed to agree. My Dad announced the rest of the race based on that, and on lap 80, starter Wally Branston waved the chequered flag... to Peter Revson.

The resulting chaos was comical - at least to those who had no stake in the outcome. I remember Rob Walker (who was affiliated with Team Surtees at the time) later writing in Road & Track: "At the end of the race nobody knew who the hell had won it. We only knew it wasn't us." Someone else suggested that the win be awarded to James Hunt, as Lord Hesketh would be sure to throw the best victory party. Many hours later, Revson was declared the official winner, but to this day many are convinced that Fittipaldi actually won the race.

Historical postscript: the race was also memorable for being dominated in its early, wet stages by a young BRM driver who was almost unknown at the time - Niki Lauda, who later went on to considerable fame as owner of an airline. And it was also the last race driven by one JYS, the last driven by his brilliant and charismatic teammate, and the last win by Peter Revson.

Sorry if this really belongs on TNF, but since the race had already been mentioned....

Great story!

There was a thread at TNF some time ago http://forums.autosp...hlight=Canadian
Any thoughts about the lap chart posted there?

[Cplus]

Adelaide '89 cops my vote too.

16 Retirements and one angry French man not willing to even take to the track at the restart

Watching Cars do pirroettes on East Terrace (and keep going sometimes) over and over again

C+

[John B]

Look at the winning teams of recent wet races:

Prost
Jordan (Hill, HFF, GF)
Stewart
BAR

Combination of midfield teams seizing opportunities with normally dominant ones not executing under unusual conditions. Wonder if it's harder to react on the fly when you're used to easy dominance with scripted races/pit stops.....

[PCC]

Thanks for that link, Scheivlak! Believe it or not, I had forgotten about the pace car (as we then called it). After the Sheckter/Cevert shunt, the pace car (a Porsche 914 as I recall - now there's some real trivia!) made what can only be termed a 'surprising' choice of position from which to lead the field. Between that and the piststops, no one was left with a realy confident grip on what was going on.

It's fascinating to see that lapchart, but I guess all we can really say is that it accurately reflects what the person keeping it thought had occurred on the track. The Truth may be out there, but at this point it's about as retrievable as King Arthur's shoe size....

[clampett]

Originally posted by HoldenRT




One of the rare races where Fisi can finish the race and not bin it in the wall/tyres.

I suppose this thread didn't opened for trolling.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by Clatter
Spa 98 has to beat them all.

Not really, huge pile-up after start doesn't make race chaotic. Malayisa 2001 was great chaos...

btw: Hungary 2006 was not chaotic race at all...

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by SirSaltire

Spa 98 gets my vote too. DC is often "blamed" for the massive pile up but it was actually Eddie Irvine that started it off by taging DC from behind. I'm sure Eddie admits it in his book.

DC already did

[ZZMS]

There was another driver that DC put out of the race in Spa 98 (excluding 1st lap pile up and MS).

[SeanValen]

Rubens and Michael both going off on the same oil at Malaysia 2001, that was something, and of cource it gave us extra entertainment in seeing MS climb through the field, and Murray Walker's commentry that day was awesome" "THEIR OFF, THERE BOTH OFF!!!."

[molive]

What about Donington 1984? Not really chaotic, but was quite interesting as well.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by molive

What about Donington 1984?

1984...

Do you mean 1993?

BTW, nothing mentioned thus far has come even close to eclipsing Mosport Park 1973...

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by Tomecek
DC already did

DC already did what? Admit it was himself to blame or say it was Eddie to blame?

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by SeanValen
Rubens and Michael both going off on the same oil at Malaysia 2001, that was something, and of cource it gave us extra entertainment in seeing MS climb through the field, and Murray Walker's commentry that day was awesome" "THEIR OFF, THERE BOTH OFF!!!."

Added to that a surreal episode at the Ferrari pits with Michael waiting and waiting until Rubens had all his rain tyres....

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
DC already did what? Admit it was himself to blame or say it was Eddie to blame?

Admitted that he was to blame for his incident with MS at Spa. Wasn't that in the aftermath of his adventure with Alonso, Nurburgring 2003?

Edit - found it: http://forums.autosp...light=Coulthard

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Admitted that he was to blame for his incident with MS at Spa. Wasn't that in the aftermath of his adventure with Alonso, Nurburgring 2003?

I was talking about the chaos at the start of the race not MS ramming DC from behind.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
I was talking about the chaos at the start of the race not MS ramming DC from behind.

And I just answered: not for the start chaos.
IMHO clearly Irvine's fault.

[De Weberis]

I think it worth mentioning Suzuka 88.
The rain wasn't that strong but played a very important role in Ayrton first WDC.

[PCC]

Originally posted by Twin Window

BTW, nothing mentioned thus far has come even close to eclipsing Mosport Park 1973... [/B]

Agreed (although I'm obviously biased...).

Cars spinning into one another and whatnot is all very amusing, but not particularly 'chaotic.' Imagine if it happenned today - imagine reaching the end of a Formula One World Championship Grand Prix, with no agreement on who had won, or even who had led the last half of the race... Bernie would lay an egg!

I spoke to my father about it on the phone today - he's still 100% certain that Emerson was the real winner....

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by PCC


Agreed (although I'm obviously biased...).

Cars spinning into one another and whatnot is all very amusing, but not particularly 'chaotic.' Imagine if it happenned today - imagine reaching the end of a Formula One World Championship Grand Prix, with no agreement on who had won, or even who had led the last half of the race... Bernie would lay an egg!

I spoke to my father about it on the phone today - he's still 100% certain that Emerson was the real winner....

We should do a poll, "Who do you think did win it?".

Could be fun.

I vote for Ganley anyway . . .

[Dolph]

Originally posted by HoldenRT




One of the rare races where Fisi can finish the race and not bin it in the wall/tyres.

couldn't resist a snipe, could you?