20 replies to this topic

[Arjan de Roos]

Today I found a good site from a dutch Cecotto fan:

http://www.johnnycecotto.com/

Many photo on two and 4 wheels. His son is also active as a racer.

In F1 Johnny looked promising. Would he have won a GP?

[f1steveuk]

I liked Johny, and always thought in the right car he would have won races. Always struck me as someone who raced because the want to, not because he had to.

[BRG]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
I liked Johny, and always thought in the right car he would have won races.

Agreed. He was almost immediately competitive when he moved from bikes to F2 and took 2nd in the F2 championship with some wins. So, given a decent car (not a Theodore or Toleman) and some time to settle down, I am sure he could have been a GP winner. Maybe not a WDC, but definitely a front runner.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by BRG
So, given a decent car (not a Theodore or Toleman) and some time to settle down, I am sure he could have been a GP winner.

What was wrong with the Monaco GP-winning and repeat podium finishing Toleman? He was obliterated by Senna* and his record was not as good as Johansson's when the latter took over.

I'd put him down as decent but no better than a number of other drivers swishing around F1 then - the Fabis of this world.

* OK, that's no disgrace...

[BRG]

Originally posted by ensign14
What was wrong with the Monaco GP-winning and repeat podium finishing Toleman?

It was a complete barge. And it never won anything, unless you are taking the revisionist viewof F1 history! And Cecotto only had it for about 6 events* in which it repeatedly let him down before it bit his legs and put him out of F1 for good.

I agree that he was never going to challenge Senna, but in, say, a McLaren, do you think Cecotto wouldn't have managed a few wins?

*the early season races were in the Belgrano B

[ensign14]

Originally posted by BRG
I agree that he was never going to challenge Senna, but in, say, a McLaren, do you think Cecotto wouldn't have managed a few wins?

Probably anyone in the '84 field could have done.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
I liked Johny, and always thought in the right car he would have won races. Always struck me as someone who raced because the want to, not because he had to.

I think that's the key though, Johnny had already reached the top in one branch of the sport and it takes someone who needs to race to get right to the top in another. Surtees needed to race and managed it; Hailwood, by the time he moved over to cars fulltime, only wanted to race; his natural talent took him a long way, but was he prepared to be JYS to get there? Was he heck!

Johnny was extremely good in cars - infinitely better than say Agostini whose motivation for moving to four wheels always seemed suspect - but I think he realised that it wasn't everything in life

[Fiorentina 1]

If he would have gone to America, like Guerrero, I think he would have done very well. Maybe not an F1 race winner, but then again who knows what would have happened in 85 if he didn't get hurt at Brands Hatch in 84.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Fiorentina 1
If he would have gone to America, like Guerrero, I think he would have done very well. Maybe not an F1 race winner, but then again who knows what would have happened in 85 if he didn't get hurt at Brands Hatch in 84.

He'd've been stuck. Toleman did not start the season and had he not been retained where would he have gone? Team managers would have seen a chap scoring maybe 20 fewer points than a rookie team-mate and which driver would have been dumped to make way?

He could have had a remarkable finish to the season, but it would have needed something special to retain his F1 place.

[Andre Acker]

Well, guys, you may have any opinion you want (and it is due to this that TNF is so interesting, a free space to express yourself) about Johnny but he will be always THE hero for a bunch of Brazilian guys who were 14 to 18 in 1972 (or it was 1973 ?). At that time he was as young as us, he came to Brasil to take part in a motorbike international event and he destroyed the oposition.
Then he went to Europe to race the world championship and won it.
I have marvelous memories from those years ...

Formula 1 is not everything in life, most of you may remember how exciting Group C and the BTCC were (before FIA/Ecclestone etc destroyed them), I would say far much better than F1 has been in the last 15 years.

Johnny was wonderful in Touring cars, always racing for BMW.

Just to say something about Johnny in F1, you have to consider that Toleman was a very little team TOTALLY concentrated on Senna. Not very easy or very fair to compare them under these conditions.

Now, how many motorbikes race did Senna, Stewart, Schumacher, Prost etc win ?
Oh, they never tried it ! But they could have done it !

Not easy or fair to compare people, each one is one of a kind ...

VBR.
André Acker.

[Dieoff]

Simply.......................... another time, another cars........but he was a excellent pilot! but Brands Hath 84 , In Venezuela he is a Idol........

Regards!

[HiRich]

Originally posted by Fiorentina 1
...if he didn't get hurt at Brands Hatch in 84.

A propos nothing in particular, just one of those moments that sticks with you.

We were a little late arriving at Brands on that day in '84. First practice had started as we came through the main entrance by Clearways. There was one car on track, and with a little skill one could place it on track by the sound - volume & pitch. Hairs on the back of the neck were up, and all, and we were hurrying to find a place to dump the car and get on with it. Then it fell silent, and we knew we hadn't heard a car touring in.

VERY strange feeling - and twenty years on I can remember damn near every detail.

[Fiorentina 1]

Where did he crash and what exactly happened? Is it simular to what happened to Michel Trolle in 1988?

[380W]

Johnny Cecotto was a great driver, both in bikes and in cars. But he was enough unluck to be born in Venezuela, where he didn´t get help in his F-1 adventure..............look at his cars and tell me if they carried Venezuelan sponsors. He always used proudly the Venezuelan flag on his cars, but his country didn´t give him all that he deserved.................

[Paul Rochdale]

"It was not easy staying ahead of Senna and at the British GP Cecotto pushed too hard in qualifying and crashed head-on into a guardrail at Brands Hatch. The barrier was moved back five feet in the 100mph impact. Ceceotto suffered broken ankles and a dislocated knee which effectively ended his hopes of an F1 career."

Quote.

[LittleChris]

Cecotto went off at Westfield Bend ( as it was before they heavily reprofiled the corner to create some run off ). Trolle crashed at the Dingle Dell chicane 4 years later

[subh]

“Although the skies were overcast, conditions were dry and reasonably warm on Friday morning and there was no reason to doubt that the weekend’s activities were going to get off to a good start. Certainly, when it came round to 10 o’clock, there was no lack of enthusiasm apparent from the drivers, many of whom were ready and waiting to go straight out. However, it appeared that Cecotto, who had never driven a racing car around the Kent circuit before, was a little too enthusiastic and possibly went too quickly on cold tyres or, at least, failed to take into account the somewhat dusty and slippery track conditions. Whatever, on only his third lap the Venezuelan suddenly lost control of his new Toleman on the way through Westfield Bend and was unable to prevent it from careering off the track and charging, head on, into the guard-rail on the left-hand side at Dingle Dell. With hindsight, Cecotto was perhaps fortunate even to survive the shunt for the impact was so great that not only did it smash the front of the Toleman but it also demolished a large section of the barriers. Even so, he was still in a bad way with two severely broken ankles and a damaged right knee cap and, after eventually being cut free from the wreckage, had to be rushed off by helicopter to Sidcup hospital to undergo an emergency operation. Furthermore, the injuries were such that, sadly, they were to bring about a premature end to his Grand Prix career.”

- Mike Lang, Grand Prix! Volume 4


I have revived this thread because I wanted to ask the bike racing fans about Johnny Cecotto’s 500cc Grand Prix career. He had most success in 350cc and 750cc racing, of course, as well as a couple of 250cc wins. But how good was he on a 500, and why is it that he was never quite a title contender in that class? He only had one points finish in 1975/76, but that was a second place at the beginning of only his second GP season. However, I don’t think he went into the 500s full time until 1977. His best couple of 500 seasons followed, with three race wins, and it looks like he could have challenged Barry Sheene in ’77 if he had managed a full season. I think he had the same works Yamaha support as Kenny Roberts in 1978, but was not that close to Roberts and Sheene in the points. Then in 1979/80 he doesn’t seem to have been a real contender. What is the story here?

[Twin Window]

One I took of him at Mantorp Park, 1981;

[fines]

I was a bit young, back then, and followed mainly car racing, but what I recall is that Cecotto didn't have works bikes in '79 and '80. Yamaha had come under a lot of pressure due to Suzuki's success with the RG500, and when Roberts won the Championship in '78, basically riding a works bike in his own team, Yamaha stopped entering an official works team. Cecotto was still very young in '78, and perhaps not settled enough to withstand the challenge from the no-nonsense Roberts, and I believe he had a bad fall with injuries, too, in one of those years ('79?). As much a victim of politics as anything else, I suppose.

He was competent in F1, but didn't really look like a potential champion, I agree. But then you look at his Touring Car record...

[subh]

Here we go: I have compiled the motorcycle stats on Cecotto, top six results in world championship racing, 1975-80. All machinery: Yamaha. I don’t have all the figures for pole positions and fastest laps:



You were partly right. Cecotto was only entered by Yamaha Motor Co. for 500 GPs in 1977-79. He was back with Venemotos in 1980. The season he missed several races was 1977, because of a multiple rider accident in the Austrian 350cc race (when Hans Stadelmann was killed).

PS: The Yamaha picture above has been doctored, as he only raced number 4 in 1979.

[flat-16]

Johnny also raced a Dolomite Sprint on the Giro d'Italia. Anyone who races a Dolly Sprint is cool with me :-)


Justin