141 replies to this topic

[Roger Clark]

I checked the use of engine number through 1939 and I found only these:

Eifelrennen: Von Brauchitsch, not used in the race

Belgium: Von Brauchitsch: 3rd

France: Caracciola, not used in race (car intended for Von Brauchitsch)

Nürburgring: Lang, not used in race

Nürburgring: Brendel, Retired (crash)

Bremgarten: Von Brauchitsch: 3rd

Bremgarten: Lang, not used in race

Bremgarten: Spare car (both M163 and M154)

Yugoslavia: Lang/Bäumer: Retired

Yugoslavia: Von Brauchitsch: DNS

 

Argentina 1951: Lang: 2 races: 2nd & 3rd

(3 M154's available and only one M163)

 

So although this engine is regarded as the ultimate pre-war Mercedes-Benz engine it never won a race. A few 3rd's and a 2nd in 1951, that's all

We shouldn't forget that the M154 engines were extensively developed in 1939, including the use of two-stage supercharging.  Full details, as mentioned earlier, are in Karl Ludvigsen's Quicksilver Century.

 

Karl also mentions that the steering fixing was modified, largely at Caracciola's request, to make removal easier.  This is especially poignant in view of the difficulty getting Seaman out of the car at Spa.

[cooper997]

This weekend, 40 years ago during a hot Aussie Summer, Sandown gathered together a number of siginificant cars and drivers for the 'Tribute to the Champions' meeting. W154, 250F, BT19, C Type, P3, 804, 908, T51, etc shared amongst Moss, Brabham, Hulme, Surtees, Gaze, Jones, Patterson and Hunt. Gurney was on the billing, but didn't arrive. Alfie Costanzo stepped in and drove the 804.

 

 

Above is the programme cover, image reversed I suspect. Inside revealing amongst the gathered Champions, my 17yo self was only brave enough to approach Jones for his autograph. What a fool was I!!!

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 12 February 2022 - 03:32.

[dolomite]

Interesting the shot of the three V-12 cars at Goodwood with the 165 in the distance. The un-numbered one on the foreground is one of the former-Schlumph museum cars with its telescopic front dampers, fitted for trials in 1950.

 

Here is another shot that I took of the Mulhouse car at Goodwood showing the modified front suspension

 

[cooper997]

A candid snap published in Racing Car News, from Sandown 40 years ago.

 

 

Eoin Young, Tony Gaze, John Surtees and Stirling & Suzy Moss.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Sports Car World Quarterly ran this Noel Tuckey (brother of Bill) coverage of the Sandown Tribute to the Champions meeting. As you can hopefully read there's mention of the W154 within...

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[Gary C]

Absolutely loving this thread, my interest in the pre-war Mercedes was piqued by the programme (maybe 30 years ago?), 'In Search Of The Silver Arrow'. Keep it up lads.

[cooper997]

First of three 1938 Donington-related pages liberated (not by me) from 28 Oct 1938 The Autocar.

 

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Here's the two other pages from 28 Oct 1938 The Autocar.

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[68targa]

These are the Mulhouse cars not long after the museum was opened up to the public c1978.  The unclothed W154 shows off the radiator arrangement - Water, Oil and fuel. I had assumed the small rad was for oil until I read somewhere  that cooling the fuel was necessary.  So is the small radiator for fuel with oil in the left third of the main radiator or the other way round ?    (One of them appears to be leaking)

 

 

The strange box mounted in front must be the air intake feeding through the radiator.

 

[Steve L]

Does anyone have records of chassis numbers linked to races please? I would like to know which chassis # was used by Caracciola in the 1938 Swiss GP. This chassis sometimes referred to (I believe) as the "deveopment" car in which new modifications were tried first.

[karlkars]

Caracciola used chassis number 14 in the 1938 Swiss GP. It was indeed a development car on which they were experimenting with different fuel-tank dispositions.

 

This is explained in my book "Mercedes-Benz Quicksilver Century."

 

Karl Ludvigsen

[Steve L]

Thanks for the confirmation.

So is this the car now in 1938 form? And back in the Mercedes Museum?

Wonder if it is a runner?

[Henk Vasmel]

Actually, it was chassis number 189444, referred to as Wagen 14 in short. The series started at 189431 (1) and was numbered consecutively up to 15. 16 was used after the war in Argentina, but it was 189443/16, so it was a renumbered 13.

The post-war Indianapolis car was 189439/9.

189433/3 was never seen at a race, so maybe was written off before it could reach a race weekend?

[Jahn1234567890]

Actually, it was chassis number 189444, referred to as Wagen 14 in short. The series started at 189431 (1) and was numbered consecutively up to 15. 16 was used after the war in Argentina, but it was 189443/16, so it was a renumbered 13.

The post-war Indianapolis car was 189439/9.

189433/3 was never seen at a race, so maybe was written off before it could reach a race weekend?

 

AFAIK chassis number 3 was only used for speed records.

[Henk Vasmel]

AFAIK chassis number 3 was only used for speed records.

That explains it. Thanks for the explanation.

[Lee Nicolle]

The unfortunately shortlived HR&R devoted quite a number of pages to the W154 with features by Mark Hughes and DCN.

 

 

 

Stephen

A chap called Fangio drove one at a very hot Sandown meeting probably 30 years ago. F5000 round from memory.

They also had other cars demonstrating inc a 60s Porsche with no door driven by a burly ex F1 champion.

[cooper997]

Lee, from your reference not the magazine cover car, Fangio drove a later W196 Mercedes Benz at September 1978 Sandown AGP (F5000s) and at November 1990 Adelaide AGP meeting.

 

 

Stephen

[JoBo]

The ex-Neal Corner-car is privately owned in Germany. I personally saw it there with some other absolutely great monoposti of all periods....

[cooper997]

Recently found 1939 The Motor with the Swiss GP report.

 

 

 

Stephen

[Roger Clark]

What is the General Classification that Farina won?

[ktrhe]

What is the General Classification that Farina won?

Voiturette Class

[Roger Clark]

Hartmann's Mercedes was second.

[ReWind]

Voiturette Class

Voiturette class is listed under "1,500 C.C. Results".

[Henk Vasmel]

There is a (small but confusing) error in the results as printed by The Motor. I compared the results with "Grand Prix Suisse" and came to the conclusion:

The 5 drivers in the middle column under Results are indeed the first 5 finishers in the final.

General classification underneath is also numbered 1 to 8, but these are actually finishers 6 to 13 in the final. So in that list, Farina is not first but sixth.

What triggered me is that it appeared that a W154 is supposed to have finished second behind an Alfa 158. That would be something that should be mentioned until the present day, but I could not remember that.

Farina, being 6th indeed won the Voiturette class, but here he is shown ahead of 4 3-litre cars, so this cannot be the Voiturette class.

Edited by Henk Vasmel, 15 March 2023 - 19:01.

[Roger Clark]

I does make sense that the "general classification" is actually positions 6-13.  Strange that The Motor got it wrong twice - also in their headlines.  A further anomaly is that the Golden Era website has Hartmann ahead of Farina, not the other way round. http://www.goldenera.fi/gp396.htm#22

[Vitesse2]

That very brief and not very informative report was written by Robert Fellowes, as Rodney Walkerley, who would normally have submitted as many as six pages, had already been called up as a reserve officer in the RASC. It was almost certainly transmitted by telephone, as Fellowes travelled on (via Stuttgart) to the International Six Day Trial the following morning. So someone at The Motor may have had to cobble it together with the aid of agency reports from Reuters, AP, AFP etc. The Autocar's report stretches to two pages, but reads as if it was written by someone who was viewing from the public stands and who may not have been present for practice. Possibly the freelancer Brian Twist, as John Dugdale was in Bonneville with John Cobb and Sammy Davis had also been called up as he was in the RNVR. However ...

 

The most comprehensive report in English of that race was actually published in May 1940 in The Autocar, written by someone called George Hobley, who may possibly be the journalist George F Hobley (1911-63), who hailed from Penrith and later edited the Cumberland & Westmorland Herald.

[Henk Vasmel]

I does make sense that the "general classification" is actually positions 6-13.  Strange that The Motor got it wrong twice - also in their headlines.  A further anomaly is that the Golden Era website has Hartmann ahead of Farina, not the other way round. http://www.goldenera.fi/gp396.htm#22

I checked 3 sources, just now, Grand Prix Suisse, Verstummte Motoren and the Black Book. They all credit Hartmann with only 28 laps, while Farina had 29.

[cooper997]

One issue, 3 x Mercedes Benz GP car-related snippets

 

 

 

refer botom of middle column for Universal's advert

 

All these can be found in 14/5/47 The Motor

 

 

Stephen

[Pullman99]

Simon Thomas in Ulster has just reminded me of this photo of Jenks trying the Czech National Technical Museum 1939 car for size during its lengthy stay at Donington c.1973-5.  

 

 

It had been loaned 'short-term' in exchange for Tom Wheatcroft's Mercedes-Benz 540K.  Unfortunately Wheatie had a world view which included little respect for "all them be'ind the Iron Curtains".  He thought that "...them in Cheshire-slovakia" would never know the significance of the Grand Prix car relative to that of the 540K...and would "forget about it".  But they did not.  Far from it.  Eventually the UK Foreign Office got involved and - most reluctantly - he had to give the 1939 car back...

 

At some stage during its decades in Czechoslovakia we thought that the 'Silver Arrow's bodywork had been varnished, because it came to Donington a patinated kind of gold/faint tan colour.  It was very distinctive, and immensely evocative.  If I recall correctly it had 'von B.' roughly painted on the seat bucket - and for any fan of original old racing tyres its rock-hard, cracking, Continentals were a sight absolutely to cherish... 

 

We just wished it could talk.  A truly wondrous artefact.

 

DCN

 

Truly wondrous indeed...and, as this thread now marches onwards, I thought I'd post a couple of pics I took in Prague just before Christmas.     I saw the car at Donington shortly after it arrived from Prague, and on subsequent visits, and was always very impressed by its originality.   It's been tidied up a bit since the mid-1970s.   Delays in the Christmas post to the North Pole obviously meant that Santa didn't receive my letter asking for a W154 but, on reflection, it would take a very big stocking.

 

The Národní technické muzeum is full of interesting artefacts.  The aircraft and aero engines on display include a Spitfire MkIX that was flown by a Czech pilot in RAF service in WW2 and the collection of railway objects, including locomotives, as well as a number of very original early cars makes this museum a must see attraction for visitors bored with the Charles Bridge and the Astronomical Clock.

 

 

 

Edited by Pullman99, 28 December 2024 - 16:46.

[Henri Greuter]

Another unusual photo provided by Simon Thomas, showing the ex-Don Lee car just before it was sold to the UK.

 

 

DCN

 

Late reply by me.

This must be the car as it looked after being fitted with a Jaguar engine when it was entered at Indy in 1957.

 

Nice too see so many clues to the Don Lee car  posted here

[funformula]

Regarding the Czech car, it seems while panel beating and refurbishing the nose section they unfortunately polished away the Mercedes-Stern.

[Pullman99]

Noticed this  - it's on a blog called Ferraris and Other Things - whilst looking for some more pics of Number 10:

 

https://hyde1841.blo...-benz-w154.html

 

Is this the ex-Neil Corner car?    The caption to the pic, taken in 1989, in the link above is a bit off the mark and I love the idea that the car was sent to Donington "for restoration"...

 

 

This is also from the same source as above.

Edited by Pullman99, 28 December 2024 - 17:51.

[Odseybod]

Not sure if this helps but this is the car driven (and then owned?) by Neil Corner at the June 1988 VSCC Silverstone meeting

 

 

And in company with the sister car and W196 brought by Mercedes to the same event, piloted by Messrs Surtees and Miles respectively.

 

Edited by Odseybod, 28 December 2024 - 21:39.

[cooper997]

Borrowed from 11/38 Speed

 

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

What follows is Simon Moore's feature from 5/87 Classic & Sports Car. Noting a different version of the 'Tommy Lee Indy' photo published in The Motor 1947 post 128

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[Henri Greuter]

Thank you Stephen.

 

 

Much appreciated

[MarkBisset]

Stunning article Stephen,

 

Thanks so much for circulating.

 

m

[cooper997]

Driver profiles (for Mercedes and others) as published 22/10/38 Donington International Grand Prix Race programme.

 

 

cooper997 collection

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

22/10/38 Donington International Grand Prix Race programme entry list , followed by race start photo that can be found in George Monkhouse's 'Mercedes Benz Grand Prix Racing 1934 - 1955'

 

cooper997 collection

 

 

Stephen

[Tim Murray]

(posted on behalf of silverdart; his words follow)

These photos relate to period when there were two Mercedes Benz 154s in Romania.

The first photo in the workshop shows Gabor Weibach (or Weinbach) with one of the cars in the Regional Car Transport Company workshops in 1951.

The second photo shows Joska Roman at the Feleac Hillclimb in 1956, prior to his accident which seriously damaged the car.

The third photo shows what is probably the other car, still with its ‘16’ race number.

I obtained these photos from a good friend who, many years ago, was involved in ‘liberating’ these cars from Romania.

I hope they are of interest.

[Gary C]

Goodness that car in the Joska Roman pic looks absolutely mint.

[Pullman99]

(posted on behalf of silverdart; his words follow)

These photos relate to period when there were two Mercedes Benz 154s in Romania.

Tim - these are splendid pics!

Just back from a trip to meet up with the team that operates the replica Fardier de Cugnot and the officialo dedication of their new museum in Void-Vacon. Stopped off at Mulhouse for my first ever visit to the former Musée National de l'Automobile à Mulhouse - Collection Schlumpf. The sole W154 on display (Chassis 6 presumably) was somewhat hidden behind the W125. Not very clear captions and, although the content is truly amazing, there is a need to five the vehicles some context. Great display on rallying, however. Coiple of my pics below (taken 25th Feb):