And in thinking along Stan's lines, I would much rather see the Lotus 39 back in the white and green of Castrol with a Repco V8 in the back which it ran with over numerous seasons in the Tasman Series and the Gold Star. As well as winning the Japanese Grand Prix at Fuji.
I understand that it was originally driven by Jim Clark who is regarded by many as the best ever to drive in Formula 1, but it was not a successful beast when he drove it in the Tasman Series and I don't see that as an overwhelming reason to see it in its original configuration and livery.
Australian motorsport; is it in decline? (merged)
Started by
Stan Patterson
, Sep 14 2006 21:26
364 replies to this topic
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#352
Vicuna
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 05:56
Originally posted by Vicuna
When it was white and blue?
Once again I manage to piss people off without even trying...
1. I never saw 'Patto' race.
2. I don't believe I have ever seen a colour photo of his racing cars in a book
3. I have an unusual form of colour blindness where it is difficult to differentiate some dark colours.
4. For example, I always thought Rindt's helmet was black, not green.
5. Could anyone that cares note the ?
6. I was merely wanting to ensure I had the 'Patto' colour scheme in mind. It appears I did.
Note to self: When I get old, and therefore probably grumpier - keep a sense of perspective and don't allow yourself to burst a boiler over relatively minor matter.
PS Painting a Lotus Formula Ford green with a yellow stripe, or every Cooper dark green with white fore and aft stripes etc etc has always struck me as a cop out. I have recently discussed this with a fellow who has painted his McLaren M4A papaya...
Severe lack of imagination in my book.
#353
Stan Patterson
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 06:13
Mr Vicuna
I beleive an apology is in order..
I was unecessarily harsh in my response to your posting, due no doubt to the passion of the subject we were discussing.. please accept my unqualified apologies.
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
I beleive an apology is in order..
I was unecessarily harsh in my response to your posting, due no doubt to the passion of the subject we were discussing.. please accept my unqualified apologies.
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
#354
Stan Patterson
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:10
Hopefully, this picture may help
Sandown 1982..note the Surtees Honda behind the Patto Cooper
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
Sandown 1982..note the Surtees Honda behind the Patto Cooper
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
#355
Stan Patterson
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:48
url=http://imageshack.us]
[/url]
If it works you will see the vey car Mr Vicuna, with Anglus Hyslop seated..Sandown Park March 1962
Stan
[/url]If it works you will see the vey car Mr Vicuna, with Anglus Hyslop seated..Sandown Park March 1962
Stan
#356
Stan Patterson
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:50
url=http://imageshack.us][/url]
[/url]
#357
Terry Walker
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 10:56
Patterson, Caversham, AGP, 1962.
Pale blue stripe over white. While colour reproduction from ancient slides can be dubious, the blue of his Dunlop racing overalls is about right, so I guess the pale blue stripe is about right too.
However, in its long history the car has undoubtedly had several colour schemes. Bill Patterson chose to run it under his own livery for a while. I can see no reason under the sun why Vicuna can't now run it under his own livery.
Pale blue stripe over white. While colour reproduction from ancient slides can be dubious, the blue of his Dunlop racing overalls is about right, so I guess the pale blue stripe is about right too.
However, in its long history the car has undoubtedly had several colour schemes. Bill Patterson chose to run it under his own livery for a while. I can see no reason under the sun why Vicuna can't now run it under his own livery.
#358
Ray Bell
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:47
Originally posted by Stan Patterson
#359
seldo
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:36
Stan......whilst we all understand your passion for this subject.....take your afternoon pills and relax a bit and don't post after you've started your evening nip....or four....
Silly old bugga....;) (from one to another);)
Silly old bugga....;) (from one to another);)
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#360
cosworth bdg
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 04:01
I agree totally........Originally posted by seldo
Stan......whilst we all understand your passion for this subject.....take your afternoon pills and relax a bit and don't post after you've started your evening nip....or four....
Silly old bugga....;) (from one to another);)
#361
Alan Cox
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 16:54
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Are wins in 'historic racing' really significant?
I meant "significant" in terms of historic racing which, I know, is insignificant in the overall scheme of things, but I was trying to indicate that Rod has done the car as much justice as it is is possible to do in modern times.
#362
Stan Patterson
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 04:59
Stan......whilst we all understand your passion for this subject.....take your afternoon pills and relax a bit and don't post after you've started your evening nip....or four....
Silly old bugga.... (from one to another)
Seldo,
Does this mean I can't post after 12 noon each day?
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
#363
seldo
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- 2,600 posts
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 06:14
What...Originally posted by Stan Patterson
Seldo,
Does this mean I can't post after 12 noon each day?
Stan Patterson
Old Aussie Grump
a late starter..? Didn't you know the pubs open in NZ 3 hrs earlier than us...?;)
#364
Stan Patterson
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- 682 posts
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 08:23
Terry,
Thank you for a brilliant and evocative picture...it brings back many memories.. I hope Mr Jolley has seen it.
Patto...three wheeling at Sandown while as Ray has said, chasing newer Coopers, Patto ..sliding through The Cutting at Bathurst, fist shaking as he storms past backmarkers and then thunders down Conrod at 169 mph......reminds me of that scene in Lawrence of Arabia,... "Take No Prisoners!"..sorry Seldo it is after noon after all....
That car can never be any other colour.......bear in mind..it was a spare works car 1959 and then spent the rest of its "long' life, both competitive and retirement, in Bill Patterson's ownership.
And in my humble opinion, that is how ithe car should now be presented ... it should not be tarted up in colours in which it never raced.
Stan Patterson
Much Nicer Old Ausse Grump
Thank you for a brilliant and evocative picture...it brings back many memories.. I hope Mr Jolley has seen it.
Patto...three wheeling at Sandown while as Ray has said, chasing newer Coopers, Patto ..sliding through The Cutting at Bathurst, fist shaking as he storms past backmarkers and then thunders down Conrod at 169 mph......reminds me of that scene in Lawrence of Arabia,... "Take No Prisoners!"..sorry Seldo it is after noon after all....
That car can never be any other colour.......bear in mind..it was a spare works car 1959 and then spent the rest of its "long' life, both competitive and retirement, in Bill Patterson's ownership.
And in my humble opinion, that is how ithe car should now be presented ... it should not be tarted up in colours in which it never raced.
Stan Patterson
Much Nicer Old Ausse Grump
#365
275 GTB-4
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Posted 04 February 2009 - 12:26
I wonder if young Stanley has suffered yet another disappointment in life?? 
Melbourne's Naval and Military Club raises white flag
THE nation's most famous military club, which once boasted members such as General Sir John Monash and Field Marshal Sir Thomas Blamey, is on the brink of collapse.
The 127-year-old Naval and Military Club in Melbourne is saddled with debts of more than $10 million as a result of failed property deals and a fast-shrinking membership base.
An independent audit report obtained by The Australian has found that the private club, which once hosted the Duke of Gloucester, Earl Mountbatten and Field Marshal Sir William Slim, could soon be forced to close its doors.
"In our opinion, there exists material uncertainty as to whether the Naval and Military Club will be able to continue as a going concern and therefore whether it will realise its assets and meet its liabilities in the normal course of business," says the auditor's report, dated November 28. The report states the club is sagging under the burden of "very high interest rates" on its debt, a "significant drop in member patronage" and an "ageing membership base".
The club's general manager, Major Steve Pilmore, yesterday admitted his club faced big challenges and that its future was uncertain.
"I'm not sure what is next," he told The Australian. "These are difficult times for all clubs, there's no doubt about that."
Major Pilmore said many older established clubs in Australia were struggling to remain relevant to younger members while the current financial crisis was also having an effect on memberships of private clubs.
"We have a club with a fabulous tradition, but we also have a falling membership of about 1200," Major Pilmore said.
"A big pile of those are World War II guys and while they are the lifeblood of the club spiritually, they are too old to come here much and from a business point of view that makes it difficult."
While Melbourne's Athenaeum Club remains locked in a bitter debate about admitting women members, the Naval and Military Club opened its doors to females, and those of non-military background, in the 1990s, but it has still struggled to replenish its ageing membership base.
"Those clubs which are surviving in Melbourne at the moment in this climate are those with external income streams (beyond membership fees)," Major Pilmore said.
"This club should have them as well, but we don't."
The auditor found the club made an operating loss of $1.5million in 2007 following a $1.7 million loss in 2006 and that its financial liabilities last year totalled $10.17 million.
In order to meet its debts, the club has been forced to put its building in Little Collins Street up for sale, hoping that its estimated worth of about $11.8 million will be sufficient to wipe out its debts.
The Naval and Military Club was established in 1881 and became a pillar in Melbourne's social and military life.
In the 1960s, the club had a membership of 4000 and a waiting list of five years.
The club's debts have soared since 2007 as a result of several failed attempts to sell its premises to developers to build a 24-storey office tower on the site. Major Pilmore said it was unclear what the club would do once it had sold its premises.
He said it was possible that itwould merge with another large club but declined to say if any merger discussions were being held.
Melbourne's Naval and Military Club raises white flag
THE nation's most famous military club, which once boasted members such as General Sir John Monash and Field Marshal Sir Thomas Blamey, is on the brink of collapse.
The 127-year-old Naval and Military Club in Melbourne is saddled with debts of more than $10 million as a result of failed property deals and a fast-shrinking membership base.
An independent audit report obtained by The Australian has found that the private club, which once hosted the Duke of Gloucester, Earl Mountbatten and Field Marshal Sir William Slim, could soon be forced to close its doors.
"In our opinion, there exists material uncertainty as to whether the Naval and Military Club will be able to continue as a going concern and therefore whether it will realise its assets and meet its liabilities in the normal course of business," says the auditor's report, dated November 28. The report states the club is sagging under the burden of "very high interest rates" on its debt, a "significant drop in member patronage" and an "ageing membership base".
The club's general manager, Major Steve Pilmore, yesterday admitted his club faced big challenges and that its future was uncertain.
"I'm not sure what is next," he told The Australian. "These are difficult times for all clubs, there's no doubt about that."
Major Pilmore said many older established clubs in Australia were struggling to remain relevant to younger members while the current financial crisis was also having an effect on memberships of private clubs.
"We have a club with a fabulous tradition, but we also have a falling membership of about 1200," Major Pilmore said.
"A big pile of those are World War II guys and while they are the lifeblood of the club spiritually, they are too old to come here much and from a business point of view that makes it difficult."
While Melbourne's Athenaeum Club remains locked in a bitter debate about admitting women members, the Naval and Military Club opened its doors to females, and those of non-military background, in the 1990s, but it has still struggled to replenish its ageing membership base.
"Those clubs which are surviving in Melbourne at the moment in this climate are those with external income streams (beyond membership fees)," Major Pilmore said.
"This club should have them as well, but we don't."
The auditor found the club made an operating loss of $1.5million in 2007 following a $1.7 million loss in 2006 and that its financial liabilities last year totalled $10.17 million.
In order to meet its debts, the club has been forced to put its building in Little Collins Street up for sale, hoping that its estimated worth of about $11.8 million will be sufficient to wipe out its debts.
The Naval and Military Club was established in 1881 and became a pillar in Melbourne's social and military life.
In the 1960s, the club had a membership of 4000 and a waiting list of five years.
The club's debts have soared since 2007 as a result of several failed attempts to sell its premises to developers to build a 24-storey office tower on the site. Major Pilmore said it was unclear what the club would do once it had sold its premises.
He said it was possible that itwould merge with another large club but declined to say if any merger discussions were being held.
