65 replies to this topic

[Tmeranda]

Anyone have a list of the whereabouts of the existing Ford GT mk4's with serial numbers?

[A E Anderson]

Originally posted by Tmeranda
Anyone have a list of the whereabouts of the existing Ford GT mk4's with serial numbers?

Well,

The Gurney/Foyt Mk IV LeMans winner has been in the possession of the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn Michigan for better than 35 years, occasionally being placed out on loan to other museums around the US (it was on display in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Museum for a couple of years in the early 1980's).

Art Anderson

[scags]

Jim Glickenhaus, who posts here, owns one of the others.

[steinbacher-hohl]

I have no clear information of Ford Mk4 now.

But I think there are 2 Ford Mk4s at Carrol Shelby museum.


And from 2003 Monterey Historic Automobile Races.
All machines were there !!

http://www.pac1.net/...es/DSCN0213.jpg

[T54]

At least two have been assembled from parts leftover and newly manufactured parts sometimes in the 1980's.
My friend Tom Malloy owns one, painted like the Gurney-Foyt car.
The other one is yellow if I recall.

[raceannouncer2003]

Apparently:

J4 - Larry Miller

J7 - Steve Volk (Shelby American Collection)

There are four others? (plus the other ones more recently assembled?)

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

[philippe7]

Originally posted by T54
At least two have been assembled from parts leftover and newly manufactured parts sometimes in the 1980's.
My friend Tom Malloy owns one, painted like the Gurney-Foyt car.

Probably this one , then ? I took this photo at the 2000 Australian Grand Prix, in the "Supersports" support race .

[Stoatspeed]

Originally posted by scags
Jim Glickenhaus, who posts here, owns one of the others.

Per Jim's name on the forum, he owns J6

[sterling49]

I don't know how up to date it is, but have you tried the book GT40 an Individual History and race Record by Ronnie Spain......lists J1 to J8......
just loved the Essex Wire cars and the John Wyer cars.......

[Rainer Nyberg]

This is the situation according to my records (although there is some debate about the '67 Le Mans winner...)

J1	J car		1966	Prototype J-car. 1966 Le Mans Trials with McLaren/Amon. Later crash-tested,	 				unclear what happened with the remains.				J2	J car		1967	Prototype. Ken Miles crashed fatally and wrote off the car.			J3	J car/Mk IV	1967	Prototype. Converted to Mk IV specs by Kar Kraft. 1967 Le Mans Trials with					McLaren/Donohue. Now with Nick Soprano.					J4	J car/Mk IV	1967	Breadvan/Can Am mix. Returned to Kar Kraft and rebuilt to MK IV specs.					Won 1967 Sebring with McLaren/Andretti. Now with George Stauffer.		J5	Mk IV		1967	Won 1967 Le Mans with Gurney/Foyt. Now with Jim Glickenhaus.J6	Mk IV		1967	1967 Le Mans, McLaren/Donohue, 4th. Donated to A.J. Foyt,  later bought by Les Lindley. Now in Ford Museum, Dearborn, painted up as the ’67 Le Mans winner.J7	Mk IV		1967	1967 Le Mans, Andretti/Bianchi, DNF. Currently at Shelby Museum in Boulder.	J8	Mk IV		1967	1967 Le Mans, Ruby/Hulme, DNF. Now with Fred Simione. 			J9	Mk IV (G7A)	1967	Open cockpit Can Am car.							J10	Mk IV (G7A)	1969	Open cockpit Can Am car. 1969 Mosport Park, Revson, DNS. 				1970 Riverside, Cannon, DNF.						J11	Mk IV		1969	Spare tub, complete Mk IV car later built up from leftover components.	J12	Mk IV		1969	Spare tub.

[Macca]

Jim Glickenhaus owns J6, not J5 - painted yellow as it was at Le Mans - and a fairly good proof is the dent in the driver's door cill made when Bruce McLaren threw down his helmet while he collected the tail clip that had flown off:



So J5 is the red one in the Ford museum.

Paul M

[Rainer Nyberg]

Okey thanks for the correction, as I said, I also got tangled into the mess...

[Stoatspeed]

Originally posted by Macca
- and a fairly good proof is the dent in the driver's door cill made when Bruce McLaren threw down his helmet while he collected the tail clip that had flown off:

Now that's what I call provenance! Hopefully that aspect of the history is so well documented that future owners will never be tempted to "restore it out" in the name of showroom perfection. We know that it's in safe hands now, of course

[Frank S]

Which, if any, would this be (Petersen Automotive Museum, November 2004)?


More Phil Hill Tribute photos, 11 November 2004

[raceannouncer2003]

This would be Tom Malloy's J11...he was #59 at the Le Mans Classis that year...great photos!

Vince H.

[raceannouncer2003]

The following from the 2003 Monterey Historics pretty well sums things up:

http://media.ford.co...m?release=16098

...but J4 now belongs to Larry Miller, as shown here:

http://www.gt40s.com...45&highlight=J4

Vince H.

[Big Jim]

There was a dark copper colored Mk.IV at Watkins Glen a few years ago. I'll see if I have a picture later.

[Tmeranda]

I asked this question because I just returned from Road America's VSCDA's event last weekend where a gentleman by the name of Bill Peters raced a red Mark IV which he claims was J1. Said he found it dismantled in a basement in Milwaukee. Anyone know anything about this?

[MKIVJ6]

J1 Was totally destroyed at Fords instructions by Holman and Moody and it's shredded pieces were
scrapped. All that exists is a clam shell J1 nose which is in the Shelby museum ownership of which is disputed. (Lee Holman vs. Museum) Bill's car is a PURE replica. Title to J1 is owned by Lee Holman.

J2 Totally destroyed, shredded and scrapped by Holman and Moody at Fords request. All that remains is it's automatic gearbox which I own.

J3 Nick Saprano

J4 Larry Miller. Sebring Winner

J5 Henry Ford Museum. Foyt/Gurney 67 winner Le Mans

J6 Donohue/McLaren 4th OA Le Mans Me. Will not be sold in my life time nor do my children have any intention to sell it.

J7 DNF Le Mans Steve Volk

J8 DNF Le Mans Fred Simione

J9 Can AM Agapou

J10 Three owners Can Am being restored as MK-IV

J11 replica on never used in period spare tub.

J12 replica on never used in period spare tub.

(Note J5 is missing it's original engine/steering wheel/and radiator as well as other parts and it's chassis plate)

J6 is complete and original.

[Big Jim]

Some pics from Watkins Glen a few years ago.

[Doug Nye]

Do please tell us more about Bruce McLaren throwing his helmet down onto the sill of J6 - and why - and when - and where the story came from? It sounds really interesting.

DCN

[Tmeranda]

Big Jim,

Did you get the chassis number of the car in your great photos? Looks like the car is red, when it should have been maron. What color do your photos show?

Bruce threw down his helmet in disgust when the rear body work flew off! He had to drive back to the pits and pick up duck tape then go back and tape the rear body work back onto the car. Hardly reissuring when going over 200 mph down the straights. He later said, now he knew what "GT" ment...."Grey tape". Shelby told Ford that the rear body work should pivot back to front, but was over ruled in their desire to have th 427 more accesable. Bruce was later killed in a simular incendent with his M8 in testing.

[Big Jim]

Sorry, I didn't get a chassis number for this one. I never got close enough to it in the pits to get any close-ups. However, it is not red. It is a dark bronze metallic color. Please correct me if I am wrong, I think this was the color driven by Andretti at Le Mans.

BTW, have any of you read John Horsman's book - "Racing In The Rain"? There is a short bit in there where Bruce M lost the bonnet on the Mk.IV, came into the pits and was quickly sent back out to find and replace the bonnet with tape because the Shelby pits didn't have a spare bonnet.

[SCHKEE T332]

J1 Was totally destroyed at Fords instructions by Holman and Moody and it's shredded pieces were
scrapped. All that exists is a clam shell J1 nose which is in the Shelby museum ownership of which is disputed. (Lee Holman vs. Museum) Bill's car is a PURE replica. Title to J1 is owned by Lee Holman. How can it be proved that it was destroyed ? How did they shred it ? How do we define "title"? I'm not addressing whether or not Bill's car is a replica, but I am questioning the presentment of the destruction of J1 as a fact. You can say "reportedly destroyed" or "commonly accepted as no longer in existance", but what if the guy that took it to the shredder did not shred it? If he stole it he would lie about it as well.

J2 Totally destroyed, shredded and scrapped by Holman and Moody at Fords request. All that remains is it's automatic gearbox which I own.ditto

J3 Nick Saprano what condition is this car in and did it race ?

J4 Larry Miller. Sebring Winner This car was in excellent original condition when I last saw it.

J5 Henry Ford Museum. Foyt/Gurney 67 winner Le Mans

J6 Donohue/McLaren 4th OA Le Mans Me. Will not be sold in my life time nor do my children have any intention to sell it. what if you go crazy and they sell it to pay your psychiatrist ?

J7 DNF Le Mans Steve Volk is this the bronze one ?

J8 DNF Le Mans Fred Simione what color is this one ?

J9 Can AM Agapouis this the honker II ?

J10 Three owners Can Am being restored as MK-IV

J11 replica on never used in period spare tub.

J12 replica on never used in period spare tub.

(Note J5 is missing it's original engine/steering wheel/and radiator as well as other parts and it's chassis plate)

J6 is complete and original. how do you know you have the original engine ? Do any others have the original engine ? What does original engine mean ?

[MKIVJ6]

Originally posted by SCHKEE T332
J1 Was totally destroyed at Fords instructions by Holman and Moody and it's shredded pieces were
scrapped. All that exists is a clam shell J1 nose which is in the Shelby museum ownership of which is disputed. (Lee Holman vs. Museum) Bill's car is a PURE replica. Title to J1 is owned by Lee Holman. How can it be proved that it was destroyed ? How did they shred it ? How do we define "title"? I'm not addressing whether or not Bill's car is a replica, but I am questioning the presentment of the destruction of J1 as a fact. You can say "reportedly destroyed" or "commonly accepted as no longer in existance", but what if the guy that took it to the shredder did not shred it? If he stole it he would lie about it as well.

Legal Title transferred from Ford Motor Co. to Holman and Moody for J1. Lee has the document and he has not transferred or sold that title.

Ron Falconer an employee of Ford placed J1's tub on a chassis dyno at Kar Kraft and added weight until it broke. He then cut up/shredded the remains and threw them out. This was done in front of witnesses who confirmed the story. Feel free to give him a call. Ford was insistent that the chassis be completely destroyed and scrapped and confirmed that it was for liability reasons. This is officially confirmed by Ford and referenced here:

http://media.ford.co...m?release=16098

J2 Totally destroyed, shredded and scrapped by Holman and Moody at Fords request. All that remains is it's automatic gearbox which I own.ditto

After Ken's fatal accident there wasn't much left. What was left was taken back to Holman and Moody and destroyed/shredded/scrapped. This was documented as well and witnessed by Lee Holman. (See same reference)

J3 Nick Saprano what condition is this car in and did it race ?

See same reference. Did not race began as a J modified with a MK-IV body.
Good condition. J Car tub not MK-IV tub. (J1 and J2 were J Car tubs as well)



J4 Larry Miller. Sebring Winner This car was in excellent original condition when I last saw it.

Tru Dat.

J5 Henry Ford Museum. Foyt/Gurney 67 winner Le Mans



J6 Donohue/McLaren 4th OA Le Mans Me. Will not be sold in my life time nor do my children have any intention to sell it. what if you go crazy and they sell it to pay your psychiatrist ?

He's been prepaid.


J7 DNF Le Mans Steve Volk is this the bronze one ?

Yes. Repaired after Andretti Le Mans crash.



J8 DNF Le Mans Fred Simione what color is this one ?

Metallic Blue.

J5 and J6 were prepared by Shelby and differ from J7 and J8 which were Holman and Moody prepared. One interesting way is that the Shelby cars used radiator exit air to keep the brakes warm during the long straight where they became too cool in the Holman and Moody cars and cracked more often due to thermal stress.

J9 Can AM Agapouis this the honker II ?
No.

J10 Three owners Can Am being restored as MK-IV

J11 replica on never used in period spare tub.

J12 replica on never used in period spare tub.

(Note J5 is missing it's original engine/steering wheel/and radiator as well as other parts and it's chassis plate)

J6 is complete and original. how do you know you have the original engine ? Do any others have the original engine ? What does original engine mean ?

I have the complete set of Ford Documents as well as all ACO documents for all of the Fords as well
as ACO documents for every car that raced at Le Mans in 66 and 67 and the block stampings match both the ACO documents and Fords shipping documents for J6. By original engine I mean the Block/heads/carbs/ that ran at Le Mans. I also have the internals but they are not currently in the engine.

I also own all of the Kar Kraft MK-IV spares as well as the original body molds and some VERY rare first set of Alum. MK-IV Tunnel port heads that were not used at Le Mans and a spare MK-IV unused dry deck block. I also own the original Dyno map of Le Mans that Ford used to run the race on the dyno before the race to determine what rpms/gearing they needed to win.

[SCHKEE T332]

"Prepaid" = funny one !
Interesting about the brakes !
Terms like original, scrapped, and even title are open to interpretation.For instance , paper title would perhaps be void if the vehicle were to be abandoned or sent to a scrapper. Scrapping is hard, if not impossible , to prove. It is much easier to prove that something does exist rather than
no longer exists. If they had told me to scrap it, I would have kept it. If I had scrapped it, I would not have kept the title. If scrapped, I wonder how much of it survived ? I'm just not able to view the scrapping of the entire car with any sense of reality. There were uprights, a transaxle, brakes, wheels, seat, steering wheel, radiator, a battery that would spark, fuel that would go everywhere,
etc.
That stuff was in such great demand that they had to strip some of it off the Lemans winner.

Ah ha, maybe they just scrapped the serial tag, steering wheel, and engine, wrapped in the
fiberglass bodyshell, and then pilfered replacement parts from the Lemans winner !

[MKIVJ6]

All tru but the J car tubs were much more destroyable due to their honeycomb/carbon/ aluminium/sandwich construction than tube frames like the one in 0846 which Ferrari has conceded was thrown out/scrapped not rendered non existent. There are also for example the differences in rows of rivets between J car chassis and MK-IV chassis which J1 had two not three of...

[SCHKEE T332]

I'm really talking in general and not about J1. I'm saying that racers/fabricators/car builders are a scavenging bunch, and
they do odd things. The McLaren drivers used to make sure to throw away the uprights after each race so they would not have to race on them twice. Other teams might pick them out of the trash and use them, at least as spares.
It is easier to add rivets than hide rivets....see what I mean ?
Bill Peter's car looks great and he had it out on the track running in the Can Am reunion race, while my Gurney T70 did a quick honorary pace lap and then returned to the pits because it was "too original to race". If Bill Peters thinks his car might be J1, or if he knows it is not J1 and wants to be able to run it with SVRA, or if it really is J1 and Bill Peters is really Bill Ford, the end result is still the same in that it is him out there doing laps in front of cheering fans in a car that will pass the tech inspection. I did drive in the race in a different car and enjoy sharing the track with Bill Peters, but I was mostly trying to comment on my confusion over what, in general, the term original means these days. It is not the same as real or genuine, and it does have its drawbacks.
By the way, I was offered the chance to drive George Stauffer's MK IV around Sebring 2 years ago
for the vintage portion of the 12 hour race. I had a cold and felt it it would be best to do it
"next time". Crap, do you think Larry Miller is going to call me or what ?

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Tmeranda
Bruce threw down his helmet in disgust when the rear body work flew off! He had to drive back to the pits and pick up duck tape then go back and tape the rear body work back onto the car. Hardly reissuring when going over 200 mph down the straights.

Oh well that would be right then. Just puzzles me because drivers of Bruce's experience and period wore their crash helmets by habit and in a race situation seemed absolutely oblivious to doing so. So for one of them to remove his crash helmet at trackside when he still has a fit car seems hugely unlikely. So is the notion that Bruce unfastened his crash helmet and removed it by the Le Mans trackside, crashed it down onto the car sill - whereas drivers of Bruce's experience habitually handled their crash helmet with some care as second nature, because their lives might depend upon it - retrieve the body section - then put his crash helmet back on, re-fasten it - clamber back into the driving seat and only then return to the pits? Just sounds like hooey to me accepted unquestioned.

By the way, it's Nick Soprano - not 'Saprano' - and Fred Simeone not 'Simioni'. Doctor Fred is far and away one of the world's most knowledgeable, committed and discerning car connoisseurs, with an admirably open and welcoming attitude to the uniniated public - and especially younger generations - examining and enjoying the cars in his great collection.

Schkee describes race car workers I certainly recognise. One of McLaren's early employees was known by his mates as 'Steptoe' after the TV rag and bone/scrap merchant characters who would collect anything against a potential future value, and another bloke who used to wander in and out of their early 'shop with his eyes - and swag-bag - always wide open was nicknamed the 'Boa Constructor' - because he was always swallowing discarded or scrap parts which might be useable in the racing car he was building for himself. I'm pretty sure it is absolutely right, however, that these early honeycomb J-series tubs were indeed cut up and crushed or binned, and even if a panel section did end up in a staffer's personal collection of memorabilia it would require tremendous imagination to see it ever reconstituted as a Real Car.

DCN

[MKIVJ6]

Once again it comes down to the metal. Just as P3 chassis are different from P4 chassis J1-J3's chassis are different from J4-J8's chassis. If you go to GT 40's .com and look up his posts you'll find a photo of Bill's tub. (Search JWHAT? Bill's handle) Count the rivet lines. Two or Three? Bill's Wildwood Brakes speak to another point. My car has Kelsey Hayes Brakes. They unlike modern Wildwood Brakes really don't do much. Racing J6 against JWHAT with it's modern brakes really wouldn't be that interesting. That said I think it great that Bill enjoys his car and you're quite right that the crowd does, just as the crowd enjoys the many replica's that are allowed to race across the world. I think this is why the FIA is addressing this issue and simply insuring that if Bill wants FIA papers (Not the Historical Ones) his car is build to the standards of the day and doesn't have modern components that give it an unfair advantage.

The repairs were made in the pits. Bruce retrieved the tail and returned to the pits where the tail was "American Scotched/GT" back on. Of course Bruce was wearing his helmet track side. The repair took 30 Minutes and Bruce went back out. Ferrari an ever so careful a follower of rules noted that the taped tail no longer hinged as required and mentioned this to the officials who quickly flagged J6 back to the pits. Discussion ensued. Repairs were only allowed to be made from materials at hand in the pits. Time and Victory were slipping away. Tempers rose. Keri removed Carrol's alligator belt, cut it up and created a hinge. Perhaps when Bruce was Black Flagged after the first repair he thought his race was over...

[2F-001]

Carroll's 'modified' belt must then be one of the more extraordinary and obscure historical artifacts; do you know if it still exists?

[Pat Clarke]

This thread reminds me of an incident that happened three odd years ago.
I had just returned from FSAE in the US and was at a trade show in Melbourne.
I ran into Allan Moffat and we wandered the show talking mostly about Carroll Smith, who had recently passed away.
We stopped to look at a blue Roaring Forties GT40 replica on show and Allan mentioned that on one of his Mustang related visits to Autokraft he was looking at the collection of used and broken GTs just arrived back from the successful LeMans foray.
He was offered one at a throwaway price should he want to bring it back to Oz to race.
He ruefully admitted that he had dismissed the offer out of hand, but wondered what such a car would be worth now.
Although it is reported that the parting of Moffat and Smith was acrimonious, Allan was truly upset at Carroll's passing. He freely admitted he would never have had the success with the Falcon coupe at Bathurst without CS input.
Wasn't CS also involved with the famous LeMans victory?
Regards
Pat Clarke

[MKIVJ6]

Originally posted by 2F-001
Carroll's 'modified' belt must then be one of the more extraordinary and obscure historical artifacts; do you know if it still exists?

When I bought J6 I also received boxes and boxes of spares, documents, and other interesting items. Over the years I've looked through some of them but not all of them. Next spring I'm planing to go through the rest of the boxes. So far they've yielded many interesting things. I remain hopefull...

[MKIVJ6]

Me driving J6 at the FOS and on the street.

[Tmeranda]

JMG,

Great Pix.

Looks like your car has acquired a Gurney bump somewhere along the line.

When are you going to exhibit it again, I would love to see it.

[MKIVJ6]

Hi

Yes. After Le Mans all of the MK-IV's were returned to Holman and Moody and for various auto shows Ford told them to paint them all like the winner. The bubble was added to J6 and she was painted as the winner and sent around. At the time everyone thought chassis J6 was the winner so when Ford gave the "Winner J6" to Foyt and he said it was the car he drove, the myth continued. When I got the car I thought it was unlikely that it was the winner and began an investigation that proved J6 was the Donohue/McLaren 4th place car so I restored her to her proper colors but left on the bubble as it was an interesting part of her post race history.

Best

[watkins]

Thought you would like to see some photos I took of the Ford Js at Watkins Glen from the last few years.



Watkins Glen Vintage weekend 2003
Watkins Glen Vintage weekend 2004
Watkins Glen Vintage weekend 2001
Watkins Glen Vintage weekend 2001

[Tmeranda]

Watkin,

Can't seem to open this pix. Are they posted elsewhere?

JMG,

This is really getting interesting. To help me sort all this out, I just got and read Trevor Legate’s “Ford GT40” book. He can’t seem to make up his mind about which car won the ’67 LeMans race. In the text he writes that J6 was the winner and that Mark and Bruce drove J5. However in the back of the book where he lists where all the GT went to, he cites J5 as the winner and J6 as the yellow car. What convinced you that you had the yellow car and not the LeMans winner? It surly must have been overwhelming proof to convince you not to claim the winner car.

PS in the text, Trevor also writes that Gurney/Grant drove the car!!!

[watkins]

The links should work. If they don't you can find the photos on my web site:
GlenPhotos.com
I'll try to get one on here...

[watkins]

And here's one more...

[SCHKEE T332]

Great website ! I've been looking at the concert stuff for a couple of hours.

[MKIVJ6]

Originally posted by Tmeranda
Watkin,

Can't seem to open this pix. Are they posted elsewhere?

JMG,

This is really getting interesting. To help me sort all this out, I just got and read Trevor Legate’s “Ford GT40” book. He can’t seem to make up his mind about which car won the ’67 LeMans race. In the text he writes that J6 was the winner and that Mark and Bruce drove J5. However in the back of the book where he lists where all the GT went to, he cites J5 as the winner and J6 as the yellow car. What convinced you that you had the yellow car and not the LeMans winner? It surly must have been overwhelming proof to convince you not to claim the winner car.

PS in the text, Trevor also writes that Gurney/Grant drove the car!!!

The confusion began at Le Mans where the paper work submitted to the ACO scrambled the cars and the drivers. After the race J5's chassis plate was stolen which didn't help. Fords painting J6 to the winners colors, adding the Gurney bubble and giving "The Le Mans Winner" to AJ didn't help either.
AJ claimed he knew what car he drove and the one he was given by Ford was the winner (J6) further clouded the issue.

After buying J6 I went and looked at car in the Ford Museum. The key was, as it always is, in the physical object. The pit ID light was a clue. It was orange. (J6's was blue) The floor of the cockpit was lowered to give more headroom and the "Gurney Bubble" was cut through in the rear for more head room as well. I had a talk with the curator and we both agreed that even without it's chassis plate, original engine, and radiator that the car in the museum was J5 and it was the winner. Sadly over the years J5 has lost more of it's parts including it's orange pit ID light and has, due to lack of maintenance, corroded past the point of use. I doubt J5 will ever run again and it's so corroded that even pushing it around is a chore.

I went home and immediately restored J6 to her proper colors.
At this time all of the books still had it wrong, switching J5 and J6.
I got in touch with the authors and the books were changed.
David Hodges even gave me a nice acknowledgement in his next edition which was the first to correct the error as have others.


The previous owner of J6 saw me years later and exclaimed that I was the only person he knew of who had turned a car he owned that everyone thought was a Le Mans winner into a 4th place finisher. As always what is, is what is.

[Big Jim]

MKIVJ6,
There is some mention in this thread about replica Mk.IV's. Do you know if the #3 in watkins and my photos is the real deal or a replica. I never got close enough to ask that year.
Jimmy

[T54]

Bruce threw down his helmet in disgust when the rear body work flew off! He had to drive back to the pits and pick up duck tape then go back and tape the rear body work back onto the car. Hardly reissuring when going over 200 mph down the straights.

There is no way in the wide world of fantasy that a helmet thrown with maximum force will ever make that kind of mark on a piece of sheet aluminum.
Just try it, you will see what I mean. Anyone with experience in aluminum forming knows that this story is patently untrue.
Also why in the world would Bruce have removed his helmet? For what unfathomable reason?

T54

[GreenMachine]

The bronze No3 above, there must be quite a breeze coming in that door top frame - I hope the gap didn't get any bigger before it got home ;)

[MKIVJ6]

Originally posted by Big Jim
MKIVJ6,
There is some mention in this thread about replica Mk.IV's. Do you know if the #3 in watkins and my photos is the real deal or a replica. I never got close enough to ask that year.
Jimmy

Hi

#3 is restored J7. Note that it seems to be missing the channel that the door top fits into which keeps the door top from flapping up.

#2 is me driving J6 at the Donohue reunion.

The panel in question can be dented by a thrown object, it deflects when you step on it but a dropped object will dent it. People who were there said that's what happened. 50% of eyewitness reports 5 minutes after an event according to the FBI are wrong so it's possible they were mistaken.

Best

[T54]

The panel in question can be dented by a thrown object, it deflects when you step on it but a dropped object will dent it.

This panel, no doubt, has a dent it in it. However it was never caused by a thrown helmet.
For proof, get a piece of sheet alloy of the same gauge and tension it in the same way. The get a standard 3-lb motorcycle helemt, roughly corresponding to the weight of Bruce's period Buco, and throw it as hard as you can on the panel.
There will be a mark indeed, but NEVER of the round shape and as deep as shown on the picture. It will merely be a dent pointing straight down, but almost unnoticeable.
McLaren was not the Incredible Hulk either.

[watkins]

This photo is from the Ford GT reunion in 1989 at Watkins Glen. It had an off-course event early in the weekend damaging the rear end and had to be removed on a flatbed. As I remember, I never saw this car on the track again that weekend.



The arrow points to a dented rear panel (hard to see).

[MKIVJ6]

Originally posted by watkins
This photo is from the Ford GT reunion in 1989 at Watkins Glen. It had an off-course event early in the weekend damaging the rear end and had to be removed on a flatbed. As I remember, I never saw this car on the track again that weekend.



The arrow points to a dented rear panel (hard to see).

Hi

That is J6 before I restored her to her proper colors. I beleive Moss was driving her at the time for her previous owner.

Best

[watkins]

MKIVJ6,
I'm sure you're right about Moss. I remember seeing him at Watkins, for a vintage event at about that time, and I think it was during the Ford GT reunion. Your Ford MarkIV (number 2) is beautiful! Hope to see it again at the Glen. Here's one more MarkIV that was there for the 2004 vintage weekend.



With all the changes on these cars through out the years I'm not sure which one this is.