88 replies to this topic

[Racer.Demon]

There have been three totally different 312B3s in the history of Ferrari. Two of them have been regular Championship cars in 1973 (a disaster) and 1974 (a success) but the third one (or in fact the first to bear the name) never raced. I've heard it was nicknamed the Snow Plough. I can imagine why (I suspect a quaint nosejob) but I have never seen a picture of it.

Does anybody have one? And more importantly, why did it never race? It can't have been worse than the actual 1973 car!


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[Don Capps]

I am in the middle of getting ready to shift to my new job, but I will scan a foto or two for you tomorrow.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, 009 was not raced. Apparently it was a real dawg. BTW, Ickx massacred a rabbit in test at Monza - the rabbit went straiht thru a radiator intake and as a result Ickx was covered by a bloody mess...


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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 12-05-1999).]

[Don Capps]

Check your email, I sent you a picture of 009. You might want to post it here if you wish.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[Racer.Demon]

I've finally come round to posting Don's pic, after he's explained to me how it works...

So here it is:



The origin of the nickname is very obvious! And what is clear to see is that the wheelbase is very short. Was that one of the reasons the car was a total failure?

Or did it have something to do with the new 1973 deformable structure regulations? I know the 1973 racing version of the B3 was Ferrari's first monocoque and that it was designed to meet these regulations.

Another question: did Forghieri pen the original B3? And was its failure the reason for banishing him from the race design department for the season, leaving Colombo to do the honours?

I should get hold of a *good* Ferrari book which actually explains all this stuff!


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[This message has been edited by Racer.Demon (edited 12-08-1999).]

[Todd]

Help,

I have questions that begin with the second 312B3 and extends throught the 126C3. When did Ferrari do away with tube frames? The deformable structure 312B3's have been described as "true monocoques" by David Hodges. He also said that the visibly broad 312T4&T5 were built on narrow monocoques. If they didn't have stressed skins, how were they monocoques? American Heritage Dictionary defines monocoque as "A metal structure such as an aircraft, in which the skin absorbs all or most of the stresses to which the body is subjected." If the Ferrari 312T4 was a true monocoque, what did Hodges mean when he wrote, "in mid-1981 Ferrari took on Harvey Postlethwaite to design a new monocoque, to get them on an equal footing with the British 'kit-car constructors'" about the 126C2? A very knoweledgeable correspondant of mine says that Ferrari was using tube frames reinforced with aluminum sheeting until 1982. That sounds more like a space frame to me. Could the truth be somewhere in between? Maybe there was a true monocoque surrounding the driver which located the 'hard' mounting points for engine and suspension, but tube subframes supporting the bodywork including the crucial ground effect tunnels? Can anyone clear this up? Could they have gone from their first space-frameless car in 1982 to the carbon fiber monocoque of the 126C3 in only one year?

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 12-11-1999).]

[Todd]

Can anyone answer the above question? Please.

[Marco94]

I believe the facts as you summerizes them to be true. As far as I know, Ferrari did indeed use a hybrid stressed skin, tube frame construction method until the 126C2.

[Honza]

Hallo for everybody,

When i browsing on the web, i found Ferrari prototyp car 312 b3 - Spazzaneve 1972/73
Know anybody something interesting about this car ,reasons why wasnt this car use in race and differences between classic b3 and this car.

Historical photo is pleasant
And for modelling i need some photos of rear parts, from museum.

H.

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Honza
Hallo for everybody,

When i browsing on the web, i found Ferrari prototyp car 312 b3 - Spazzaneve 1972/73
Know anybody something interesting about this car ,reasons why wasnt this car use in race and differences between classic b3 and this car.

Historical photo is pleasant
And for modelling i need some photos of rear parts, from museum.

H.

Depends on what you call `classic B3`
the designation 312B3 was used in both 1973 and 1974 but even these two cars were entirely different animals to see and in results. They used the same monocoques but otherwise...


The first car you ask about was shelved because, if my memory is correct, nobody but designer Forghieri had faith in the low polar moment concept of the car. Ironicly, the concept of low polar moment was picked up again later on with the 1974 versions of the B3 and then it did work quite well after all.


Henri

[f1steveuk]

Ah the low polar moment concept, best ask Robin Herd about that in around 1971/72!

Without a picture, isn't the Spazzaneve the snow plough?, which from memory just didn't work in the aero department

[Graham Gauld]

As far as I am aware the car is still owned by Guido Ferrari ( No relation) who lives in Reggio Emilia.

[Macca]

There was a big article about the 'snowplough' in Motor Sport magazine for December 2002 in the UK, but it had hardly any decent detail photos (it seemed to be written to help Bonhams sell the car........where have I seen that before?

There was something in Ferrari World once, I'll look it out.

Paul M

[Arjan de Roos]

The Spazzaneve (italian for snow plough) has indeed never raced. It was a test car. In fact it was the first B3 build as you look at chassis number. This is #009 in a line of Ferrari F1's, that started with the first 312 B build. Today we have #250 soon.

This car was made in a time Ferrari was having to sort out many things. The Scuderia was running both F1 and Sports Prototypes at the time. So they had to juggle with their efforts and money. Still Mauro Forghieri kept on bringing new ideas in his cars. With the Spazzaneve he tried to take advantage of a low polar moment at the extreme and wheeltrack/base as large as possible.

Indeed it was maybe a bridge to far.

Presented to the press in august 1972. It was tested at Fiorano, Monza and Paul Ricard (Ickx and Merzario driving) in several configurations: rear wing and air inlets on side pods being the most noticable differences.

The nick name was given for its snoot resembled a snow plough so much.

Forghieri couldnt get this car to work and was set aside. A new chassis was developped in England (as suppliers in Italy were on strike). This chassis was raced and proved to be a start for a very bad year for Ferrari (no wins). Many bad results and developments followed. Forghieri was brought back and used his experience to develop the 1974 B3 and the even more succesful 312 T.

It was sold on through the years: Bamford to Hayashi to Hamilton to Obrist (who disliked it and kept it under wraps in the basment) to G. Ferrari (Monaco Orion 1990 auction). Went on sale with Bonhams in 2002 at Gstaad but was not sold. The car was shown in demonstration runs, which it deserves.

Described a ugly by some, still important for the development of Ferrari succes in the seventies.

Check out this pro-site with good contemporary pics:
http://www.jacky-ick...hp?idx=121&id=1

In good Ferrari F1 books you can find more on #009

[macoran]

photo from Jonathan Thompson's book Boxer

[lustigson]

Googling on "spazzaneve" gives me this:




and this, too:

[j-ickx-fan]

Originally posted by lustigson
Googling on "spazzaneve" gives me this:

Please, don't do a hot link to photos which are on my website because it won't work.

Thanks.

Julien

[Bonde]

Check out the Ferrari page on Remi Humbert's excellent and frequently updated 'Gurney Flap' image site of racing cars in their present state: http://www.gurneyfla...la1ferrari.html
There you'll find some close-ups of the B3.

[Doug Nye]

I had the 'Spazzaneve' together with an ex-Reutemann 312T2 for a few weeks. Without a garage they lived under tarpaulins on my front drive. I know, isn't that dreadful! Here are the cars at Farnham HQ - 'Spazzaneve' left, 312T2 right... circa 1983 (ish)?... They were ex-Bamford/JCB and were bound for the Hayashi Collection in Japan.



DCN

[Arjan de Roos]

Doug, you didn't go out for shopping in them, did you?

"Look what Santa brought me this year...."

I always liked the Spazzaneve, with the 1977 T2 possibly the most beautiful F1's Maranello made in the seventies.

Wasnt the Spazzaneve using wooden planks to support the air intakes on its sidepods?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I had the 'Spazzaneve' together with an ex-Reutemann 312T2 for a few weeks. Without a garage they lived under tarpaulins on my front drive.

DCN

Blimey. Imagine that these days.... if they can nick a three-ton Henry Moore sculpture, what about a pair of 550kg F1 cars?;)

[David Beard]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Blimey. Imagine that these days.... if they can nick a three-ton Henry Moore sculpture, what about a pair of 550kg F1 cars?;)

Yes, the thieves went to all that trouble to get that three ton blob: what lengths would they go to to steal works of art?

[Doug Nye]

The T2 was indeed lovely - the Spazzaneve a real plug ugly little mongrel - I don't remember any timber in its structure - our narrow lane was the real security feature - backed up by a resident couple of wildly enthusiastic and noisy Springer spaniels...

DCN

[oliver-alexander]

Does someone know what brand of tires was fitted on the Ferrari 312B3 spazzaneve?
Was it still Firestone or already Good Year?
On all the pics i can find, it has the Avon used in Historic GPs.
Thanks,

Oliver

[Cris]

Mr. Nye had the car in his possession at one point. Unfortunately, the photos have gone missing from the thread it was mentioned on:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=84116

Cris

[David M. Kane]

I'm pretty sure it had Goodyears when it was announced to the public.

[JB Miltonian]

The "spazzaneve" 312B3 as pictured in Thompson's Ferrari Formula One Cars (page 174) is on Firestones (at least the RF can be identified as a Firestone).

[canon1753]

If it were built between 1972 and 1973, Ferrari were on Firestones in 1972 and switched to Goodyears in 1973. It might also have depended on whether the photos were at a test session or just around the shop. At the shop they may have used last years tires just to roll the car around. Also important may be when the Firestone contract ended and the Goodyear one began.

[SWB]

The 'spazzaneve' was definitely rolled out on Firestones in 1972 (Boxer - Ferrari Flat 12 racing and GT cars, by Thompson page 48), and as JB Miltonian says, the name is quite visible on the RF. And while the RR doesn't seem to carry a Firestone logo, it does have the typical Firestone bands running around the sidewall.

[oliver-alexander]

Thanks to all for your nice answers.
It's great to know Mr Doug Nye visits this forum.
I wonder if this car could have used both brands as it was run between 2 contracts.
And Mr Enzo Ferrari was not always happy with Firestone: at Monza during practice, J Ickx's 312B2 was fitted
with GoodYear tires while being in contract with Firestone.

[macoran]

Originally posted by SWB
The 'spazzaneve' was definitely rolled out on Firestones in 1972 (Boxer - Ferrari Flat 12 racing and GT cars, by Thompson page 48), and as JB Miltonian says, the name is quite visible on the RF. And while the RR doesn't seem to carry a Firestone logo, it does have the typical Firestone bands running around the sidewall.

I have an identical pic on file RF clear Firestone logo on the tyre, RR nothing visible.
Then I also have an early 73 test pic with Goodyears all round.....??

[David Beard]

Isn’t it tedious, this tires/tyres contretemps? One would think that at least within motor sport, and the discussion thereof, a spelling could be agreed upon…..

[macoran]

Originally posted by David Beard
Isn’t it tedious, this tires/tyres contretemps? One would think that at least within motor sport, and the discussion thereof, a spelling could be agreed upon…..

No tongue in cheek meant in my post David.
I am used to spelling it both ways, depending the side of the pond I am at.

I only sometimes forget which side of the pond spells it which way.

[SWB]

Then I also have an early 73 test pic with Goodyears all round.....??

Forghieri described the Spazzaneve as a mobile test bed, but as the new B3 was introduced in February 73 on Goodyears, it must have been very early in the year, unless they carried on developing components in the the earlier car. I kind of have an inkling that it wouldn't have been a straight forward job changing from Firestones to Goodyears, and it is perhaps gaining this much needed experience that the Spazzaneve was used for?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by macoran


No tongue in cheek meant in my post David.
I am used to spelling it both ways, depending the side of the pond I am at.

I only sometimes forget which side of the pond spells it which way.

Wasn't getting at you, Marc!

[arttidesco]

Wiki makes know mention of the tube framing in the 126C indicating that the 126 chassis almost identical to the (monocoque) T5 but howstuffworks suggests that Ferrari reprised the tradition of using tube frame with overlaid aluminium. The later seems very unlikely but maybe this was at the heart of the 126C's handling issues ?

Seems like a mystery that can only be solved with a cut away drawing or some very close photographs.

[raceannouncer2003]

According to "The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing" by Cimarosti, the 1980 T5 and 126 CK were both tubular frame with stressed skins, as was the 1981 126 CK. The 1982 126 C2 is described as alloy monocoque.

Vince H.

[arttidesco]

Good find raceannouncer200... so were any of the 312 B models alloy monocoques ?

I thought when the 312 B3 was introduced in 1973 Ferrari had monocoques made in England by 'Thompson', not sure if that was TC Components or TC Prototypes (are they one and the same ?) does "The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing" by Cimarosti give any indication when Ferrari 'reprised' the tradition of using tube frame with overlaid aluminium RA200... ?

[john winfield]

There have been three totally different 312B3s in the history of Ferrari. Two of them have been regular Championship cars in 1973 (a disaster) and 1974 (a success) but the third one (or in fact the first to bear the name) never raced. I've heard it was nicknamed the Snow Plough. I can imagine why (I suspect a quaint nosejob) but I have never seen a picture of it.

Does anybody have one? And more importantly, why did it never race? It can't have been worse than the actual 1973 car!


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I noticed the return of a 'Snow Plough' thread - if anyone is interested, there are lots of others on TNF if you search on 'Spazzaneve'. In this one there's a useful link to lots of photos on the Jacky Ickx site, plus the revelation that Doug Nye had one in his drive. Under a tarpaulin.

http://forums.autosp...p;hl=spazzaneve

I have an Autosport cutting from early 1973 (March / April) in front of me showing Ickx and the 'new' B3, the replacement for the unraced (Forghieri designed?) Spazzaneve. I don't think it made its debut as planned at the International Trophy, rather at the Spanish GP at Barcelona, where I think it scrapped with George Follmer's Shadow.

The cutting distinguishes this second B3 from the first by labelling it the 'BCR' (Boxer Colombo Rocchi); apparently Sandro Colombo was in charge and Rocchi worked on the design. What I was wondering is whether, when Forghieri was brought back to help improve the B3 in late 1973, was he developing the Rocchi design, resurrecting and revising his Spazzaneve, or taking ideas from both to create what, in 1974, became a very quick race winning B3, unrecognisable from the lump that plodded around Silverstone in July 1973?

If this has all been discussed at length elsewhere, apologies, and I'll read the appropriate threads and books!

Edited by john winfield, 25 May 2010 - 08:26.

[arttidesco]

Doh! Just seen the Ferrari 312B3 'Spazzaneve' prototype thread was started 6 years after this one was started I wonder if they can be merged to stop any further confusion ?

[gouldo]

Doh! Just seen the Ferrari 312B3 'Spazzaneve' prototype thread was started 6 years after this one was started I wonder if they can be merged to stop any further confusion ?

The ugliest ferrari ever built? Certainly in the top 4.

[Hamish Robson]

Here it is at Goodwood for the Festival of Speed 2008.

[arttidesco]

Thanks for posting the pic Hamish :-)

I have already professed my love of 2CV's as visual beauties else where, and I may well be a sucker for the low polar momentum school of thought but if there was one Formula One Car I'd love to drive this is it :-)

Can't think of any car that sums up 1973 more emphatically :-)

It even has gold coloured suspension arms ! just love it :-)

[werks prototype]

My own encounter with said 'Beast' less its cowling. (Purposeful looking and beautiful in an abstract sense are the terms I would use to describe it). I watched as the mechanics were cutting by hand a tread in to the rears.

Ferrari 312 B3S Spazzaneve 1972, 3-Litre Flat 12

Edited by werks prototype, 25 May 2010 - 11:51.

[arttidesco]

My own encounter with said 'Beast' less its cowling. (Purposeful looking and beautiful in an abstract sense are the terms I would use to describe it). I watched as the mechanics were cutting by hand a tread in to the rears.

Gorgeous pics thanks :-)

It's lines are so simple it could have come straight out of a Skid Solo comic strip :-)

[RStock]

What I was wondering is whether, when Forghieri was brought back to help improve the B3 in late 1973, was he developing the Rocchi design, resurrecting and revising his Spazzaneve, or taking ideas from both to create what, in 1974, became a very quick race winning B3, unrecognisable from the lump that plodded around Silverstone in July 1973?

It's my understanding that Forghieri did exactly that , using ideas from the "Spazzaneve" .

There is a pretty good article at this site , which is a bit of a rough translation from Italian , but good enough to understand what was going on at the time and answers many of the questions asked here better than I could .

http://www.connectin...ticolo_eng.html

I believe the fellows responsible for that site are members of TNF , so perhaps they will happen by and help .

[David M. Kane]

Yes perhaps it is ugly in a way; but is a very well thought out attack on beauty. I'd of had the guts to bring her to the dance.

[john winfield]

It's my understanding that Forghieri did exactly that , using ideas from the "Spazzaneve" .

There is a pretty good article at this site , which is a bit of a rough translation from Italian , but good enough to understand what was going on at the time and answers many of the questions asked here better than I could .

http://www.connectin...ticolo_eng.html

I believe the fellows responsible for that site are members of TNF , so perhaps they will happen by and help .

Thanks Red - that's a very interesting link. Forza Forghieri!

[raceannouncer2003]

Good find raceannouncer200... so were any of the 312 B models alloy monocoques ?

I thought when the 312 B3 was introduced in 1973 Ferrari had monocoques made in England by 'Thompson', not sure if that was TC Components or TC Prototypes (are they one and the same ?) does "The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing" by Cimarosti give any indication when Ferrari 'reprised' the tradition of using tube frame with overlaid aluminium RA200... ?

Yes, the 1973 Ferrari monocoques were apparently made by John Thompson of TC Prototypes. And apparently by 1975, the T5 used tubular frame with stressed skins.

Vince H.

[arttidesco]

Yes, the 1973 Ferrari monocoques were apparently made by John Thompson of TC Prototypes. And apparently by 1975, the T5 used tubular frame with stressed skins.

Vince H.

Thanks for looking it up Vince :-)

I wonder why Ferrari made the switch back to the older, and given the T5 appalling results, inferior technology ?

Something to do to do with Ferrari being most proud of their engines perhaps ?

Or just a bad day at the office when the decision was made to reprise tube frames with stressed skins ?

[raceannouncer2003]

I wonder why Ferrari made the switch back to the older, and given the T5 appalling results, inferior technology ?

Lauda won the championship in it.

Vince H.