I was only a young kid who read about the car in the magazines. I can tell you that from our side of the Pond, it only made Gurney that much bigger than life.
What a time!
ZOOOM
Gurney's 1961 Impala
Started by
teegeefla
, Sep 22 2006 00:57
81 replies to this topic
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#52
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 April 2009 - 00:23
Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
A little of the subject but 409s on the hills. Norm Beechey used his restored 4 door pillarless for a period at the hillclimbs, classic rallys etc. It was quite spectacular to watch at Collingrove and reasonably quick.The bench seat must have been terrible. I think that car is a 62?
That car is a '62...
#53
klemcoll
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Posted 01 April 2009 - 22:30
hardy wanted to see one of the Chevrolet Chevy II's that ran out of Alexander Engineering in 1962. This is Charlie Kelsey approaching South Tower with one of the Equipe Endeavour Jag 3.8's pushing him hard.
#54
55tbird
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Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:06
Does anyone have a copy of the three page story on the Gurney Impala that ran in the July '61 issue of Sports Car Graphic, or any race reports covering the Silverstone race (or other photos of car?)Thanks for any help.
#55
Ray Bell
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Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:36
Pretty sure the owner of the car has those...
#56
teegeefla
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Posted 31 August 2010 - 00:25
Does anyone know how the Impala qualified at Silverstone? Was it significantly quicker than the Jaguars?
#57
HistoricMustang
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Posted 31 August 2010 - 19:42
My guess for the license plate fram, would be La Habra (top) and Don Steves (bottom). Don Steves Chevrolet was, and still is, a Chev dealer in La Habra, California:
www.donsteveschevrolet.com
They sponsored Dave MacDonald's Corvette in 1961, but looks like they are more into drag racing now.
Vince H.
Speaking of MacDonald...........................a nice home video of his '62 in action.
http://www.youtube.c.../11/RP_DLNofoo8
Edited by HistoricMustang, 31 August 2010 - 19:45.
#59
David McKinney
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:38
Autosport doesn't say, and neither does MotorSport, though the monthly does say Graham Hill (Jaguar 3.8) shared the lap record with the Impala
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#60
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 22:34
One consequence of the Impala invading England...
The Jaguar regulars were ready to face Bob Jane when he turned up the next year.
The Jaguar regulars were ready to face Bob Jane when he turned up the next year.
#61
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:47
I love the way it arrives at the track, flat towed on an A bar it appears. Who needs a transporter ? or even a trailer.Speaking of MacDonald...........................a nice home video of his '62 in action.
http://www.youtube.c.../11/RP_DLNofoo8
#62
GMACKIE
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Posted 30 June 2011 - 22:39
Ray, just as you say, Laurie drove the Impala [and also the beautiful Zagato Aston Martin] that day at Silverdale. I was a bit peeved, as he beat my VW time [45.77], although he was in a different class, and my Appendix J record was safe. Laurie was NOT KIND to either of those cars, by the way!Apparently not...
If it had been a Pontiac, Olds, Caddy or something else, yes... but Chevrolet were too much of a sausage machine, apparently.
Still pursuing this, but here's an interesting one for you all to contemplate. At least, those of you who know Silverdale Hillclimb, anyway.
Laurie O'Neil did a 43.96sec run up that climb in September 1962 in this car!
#63
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:32
Did he run the Aston there twice?
#64
cooper997
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Posted 02 July 2011 - 01:15
The Dan Gurney entry for his monster Chev at Silverstone's Saturday, May 6th, 1961 International Trophy Meeting is very briefly announced in the May 1961 issue of Motor Racing. In 'Pit Patter' it states, "Dan Gurney plans to drive a Chevrolet Impala in the 12-lap saloon car race at Silverstone on May 6." This issue being published mid-April 61.
The race programme entry list for the 'International Production Touring Car Race' has the following details in the 'Over 3000cc Class'.
37 Dan Gurney Chevrolet/Driver 6702
In the same class there was 7 Jaguars entered, with notables such as Salvadori, McLaren, Graham Hill, Parkes, etc.
The programme's lap score chart filled in for the race has car #37 leading ten of the 12 laps, until as previously mentioned in this thread, there was the wheel issue with the Gurney Chev. Allowing Jaguar's to take the first 5 places - Hill, Parkes, Dennis Taylor, McLaren & Sir Gawaine Bailey (going by the programme's listed results).
Also, in the event's programme there is an article from The Autocar's then editor, Maurice A Smith, 'Racing Saloon Cars - a realistic approach'. Some of the information mentioned in this would have meant Dan was potentially pushing the envelope, even with Chevrolet sausage factory production techniques. Hence it becoming a one race wonder for him. This is what Smith wrote generally on the subject of racing saloons for 1961.
"Technically speaking, the rules say that cars may be modified in accordance with Group 2 of Appendix J - which is a section of the International Sporting Code. What does this mean is less esoteric terms?
So far as a engine is concerned, reboring may be carried out to a limit of 1.2mm - which amounts roughly to the manufacturer's recommended maximum rebore tolerance. If the resulting increase in capacity is sufficient to raise the engine of the car above the top limit of its capacity class, then up it goes into the next class. The compression ratio may be raised - but only by machining the cylinder head, or fitting a thinner gasket: special high compression pistons are forbidden, unless they are offered as optional equipment by the manufacturer - in which case, before they are acceptable, at least 1000 identical cars must have been equipped with them during 12 consecutive months. This "minimum fabrication" rule, incidentally, applies to the whole car and every part of it. The rules state that "They must have been manufactured in a series at a rate of 1000 units in 12 consecutive months, and be indentical so far as mechanism and coachwork are concerned".
Apart from these basic tuning operations, the rules go on to permit: "All perfecting operations, by finishing or machining original parts - but not by their replacement..." It is also laid down that it must always be possible to ascertain unquestionably the production origin of all parts so treated. The carburettor jets and chokes may be changed, but not the number or type of carburettors originally fitted to the car. The gearbox and rear axle ratios may be changed - but only when the production model is available with these ratios, at the regular price.
Certain modifications are permitted in connection with the suspension and brakes, but these are concerned more with increasing the safety of the car at prolonged racing speeds. The greatest of these concessions is the modification of road springs. or their replacement with springs of "unrestricted origin" - but the attachment points must remain unaltered. It is also permitted to fit an anti-roll bar. So far as the brakes are concerned, an increase of braking power is allowed, provided the manufacturer's original operating system is retained. This is understandable enough; brakes that will operate lightly and comfortably at touring speeds, at the touch of a stiletto-heeled shoe, will probably take exception to repeated hard applications at racing speeds - particularly on a circuit that gives the linings few opportunities to cool down.
With an eye, primarily, to increasing safety, certain minor modifications are allowed to other chassis parts - the method of attaching the wheels, for example, may be strengthened, and the wheels themselves may be balanced. Finally, the weight of the car must be within 5 percent of the average weight of five identical production cars of the same model - so the indiscriminate shedding of bumpers, rear seats, window frames, and so on, is definitely "out"."
So no doubt within all that Jaguar's Lofty England went to work to see off the Chev. The 1000 identical units would have finished it, I would have thought.
Stephen
The race programme entry list for the 'International Production Touring Car Race' has the following details in the 'Over 3000cc Class'.
37 Dan Gurney Chevrolet/Driver 6702
In the same class there was 7 Jaguars entered, with notables such as Salvadori, McLaren, Graham Hill, Parkes, etc.
The programme's lap score chart filled in for the race has car #37 leading ten of the 12 laps, until as previously mentioned in this thread, there was the wheel issue with the Gurney Chev. Allowing Jaguar's to take the first 5 places - Hill, Parkes, Dennis Taylor, McLaren & Sir Gawaine Bailey (going by the programme's listed results).
Also, in the event's programme there is an article from The Autocar's then editor, Maurice A Smith, 'Racing Saloon Cars - a realistic approach'. Some of the information mentioned in this would have meant Dan was potentially pushing the envelope, even with Chevrolet sausage factory production techniques. Hence it becoming a one race wonder for him. This is what Smith wrote generally on the subject of racing saloons for 1961.
"Technically speaking, the rules say that cars may be modified in accordance with Group 2 of Appendix J - which is a section of the International Sporting Code. What does this mean is less esoteric terms?
So far as a engine is concerned, reboring may be carried out to a limit of 1.2mm - which amounts roughly to the manufacturer's recommended maximum rebore tolerance. If the resulting increase in capacity is sufficient to raise the engine of the car above the top limit of its capacity class, then up it goes into the next class. The compression ratio may be raised - but only by machining the cylinder head, or fitting a thinner gasket: special high compression pistons are forbidden, unless they are offered as optional equipment by the manufacturer - in which case, before they are acceptable, at least 1000 identical cars must have been equipped with them during 12 consecutive months. This "minimum fabrication" rule, incidentally, applies to the whole car and every part of it. The rules state that "They must have been manufactured in a series at a rate of 1000 units in 12 consecutive months, and be indentical so far as mechanism and coachwork are concerned".
Apart from these basic tuning operations, the rules go on to permit: "All perfecting operations, by finishing or machining original parts - but not by their replacement..." It is also laid down that it must always be possible to ascertain unquestionably the production origin of all parts so treated. The carburettor jets and chokes may be changed, but not the number or type of carburettors originally fitted to the car. The gearbox and rear axle ratios may be changed - but only when the production model is available with these ratios, at the regular price.
Certain modifications are permitted in connection with the suspension and brakes, but these are concerned more with increasing the safety of the car at prolonged racing speeds. The greatest of these concessions is the modification of road springs. or their replacement with springs of "unrestricted origin" - but the attachment points must remain unaltered. It is also permitted to fit an anti-roll bar. So far as the brakes are concerned, an increase of braking power is allowed, provided the manufacturer's original operating system is retained. This is understandable enough; brakes that will operate lightly and comfortably at touring speeds, at the touch of a stiletto-heeled shoe, will probably take exception to repeated hard applications at racing speeds - particularly on a circuit that gives the linings few opportunities to cool down.
With an eye, primarily, to increasing safety, certain minor modifications are allowed to other chassis parts - the method of attaching the wheels, for example, may be strengthened, and the wheels themselves may be balanced. Finally, the weight of the car must be within 5 percent of the average weight of five identical production cars of the same model - so the indiscriminate shedding of bumpers, rear seats, window frames, and so on, is definitely "out"."
So no doubt within all that Jaguar's Lofty England went to work to see off the Chev. The 1000 identical units would have finished it, I would have thought.
Stephen
#65
RJE
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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:33
Sorry to 'butt' in slightly off track but mention of the Chevy 11s here in Britain brought back a few memories. I saw the Brands race in 1962 so it was with some interest that a couple of years later I got involved with one of the cars. It had been brought to Toronto in Canada by the Fejer Brothers and was later sold to a guy by the name of Barry Webb.
While in Barry's possession I helped him run the Chevy, now and then, including making a rather crude spoiler on the boot (Sorry, trunk) lid. During this period I had the 'pleasure' of driving the car at a test session at Harewood. By this time the car was fitted with a fearsome 327 motor with Hilborn injection that had the reactions of a sink tap, it was either on or off and was still running on the rather narrow and old Dunlop tyres. It was one of the most frightening things I have ever driven. I considered it to handle like a blancmange with 400 horsepower. I recall it would step out of line if you blew on the throttle pedal sometimes after a slight delay while the fuel decided where to go. Great fun, but I really gained a respect for those who raced the cars.
Does anybody know the fate of those two Chevys?
While in Barry's possession I helped him run the Chevy, now and then, including making a rather crude spoiler on the boot (Sorry, trunk) lid. During this period I had the 'pleasure' of driving the car at a test session at Harewood. By this time the car was fitted with a fearsome 327 motor with Hilborn injection that had the reactions of a sink tap, it was either on or off and was still running on the rather narrow and old Dunlop tyres. It was one of the most frightening things I have ever driven. I considered it to handle like a blancmange with 400 horsepower. I recall it would step out of line if you blew on the throttle pedal sometimes after a slight delay while the fuel decided where to go. Great fun, but I really gained a respect for those who raced the cars.
Does anybody know the fate of those two Chevys?
#66
Paul Parker
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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:49
A vague memory stirs in the back of the old brain box about Gurney and the Chevy.
Wasn't a disgruntled letter sent to Autosport by Gurney (or similar) at the time complaining about the homologation fit up? I saw it once a long time ago and I'm not in reach of my archive just now but somebody better informed will know I'm sure.
As an update here is what I noted in RACES FACES PLACES thus:
Dan Gurney and the Chevorlet Impala gave Jaguar a rude shock at the May International Trophy Silverstone meeting in 1961, seriously threatening the Coventry concern’s hegemony in British saloon car racing. Had he not lost a wheel Gurney, who started from pole, would have won the race, shown here being closely pursued by Graham Hill in one of the Equipe Endeavour Mk2 Jaguars who went on to win and set fastest lap. There was an unfortunate postscript when Gurney entered the Impala at the British Empire Trophy meeting in July only to discover just two days before the race that apparently the car was not homologated (even though Gurney was accepted at the May meeting and held the necessary acceptance papers from the F.I.A. committee in the US). The papers had been sent to the C.S.I. of the F.I.A. (bureaucracy it never fails to frustrate and deny) in Paris who admitted they had the documents but now claimed it was too late to act. This prompted Gurney to contact John Eason Gibson at the BRDC but Eason Gibson subsequently received a telegram from Paris one hour later saying “Chevorlet not homologated”. According to a letter from Dan Gurney published in Autosport magazine on 21 July 1961, the RAC knew 10 days beforehand about the homologation problem but failed to inform Gurney in time. Unsurprisingly Gurney was very upset and stated in print that “I will in time get over the fact that I had spent a lot of time and money in bringing the Impala to Great Britain, but I will not readily forget the suspicion that there may have been some behind-the-scenes sabotage to prevent the Chevorlet from running at Silverstone”. He ended the letter by stating “I say again that our car is very standard and that it does comply with the rules and regulations”. No official response appears to have graced the pages of Autosport and it was left to a Wim Hoeksma of Purley, Surrey who wrote in the following week to state that Mr. Gibson owed the paying public and Mr. Gurney an explanation.
#67
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:08
Pretty obvious that Dans Chev was not pukka, it is not British.
And I bet those Jags had more cheats than a monkey has fleas!
And looking at those pics above the Jags looked so old and dated in comparison to the American cars.
There is a 61Coupe here in Adelaide and supposed to be 409, it is manual. Wether it is original ofcourse is another story. But looks the part
edit 3/5. The Coupe her in Adelaide is a tripower 348 4 speed. And a original genuine car.
Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 May 2019 - 00:02.
#68
Ray Bell
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Posted 09 May 2012 - 13:52
The Dan Gurney car is not in Adelaide...
Let's not start rumours that might inhibit the acceptance of the real car among those who are trying to deny its true heritage.
Let's not start rumours that might inhibit the acceptance of the real car among those who are trying to deny its true heritage.
#69
group7
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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:54
hello, this message is for RJE, I know some time has past, but I read with interest the story on the gurney impala. but your mention of the chevy 11's intrigued. me. and your involvement, when one of the cars came to canada. I found a couple of pictures on the net, one in colour of the webb car at tremblant 1966. and two black and white , at mosport in 1965, don't know if this is the same car ? you might already know them. can't seem to add photos to posts ! brain block with computers ! would be interested in your comments. can send them to you if you were to p.m. me.
mike in ontario
#70
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:07
I never said that it was. Chevy made far more than one! And over 50 years many people have 'engineered' their own clones of cars.The Dan Gurney car is not in Adelaide...
Let's not start rumours that might inhibit the acceptance of the real car among those who are trying to deny its true heritage.
#71
klemcoll
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Posted 07 December 2013 - 21:09
I think that RJE is referring to the Chuck Kelsey Chevy II, originally built up by Bill Thomas. It would be nice to find that car again. It was originally a light blue color. My car, born of Jim Rathmann and Smokey Yunick, was destroyed, I was told, in a garage fire on Cape Cod in the late 1960s.
#72
Basic GPa
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Posted 02 May 2019 - 14:54
Good morning,
Thanks to everyone who helped me put together my latest article on a pair of Chevy IIs that raced in British saloon car racing\g during 1962. They were driven by Peter Sachs and Chuck Kelsey. Both cars had Corvette V8s, a Rochester FI one in Kelsey's car and a carbureted version in Sachs'. They appeared eleven times that year, taking home a pair of victories.
The article appears in the May/Jun issue of "Vintage Motorsport" magazine under the title "Chuck and Pete's Excellent Adventure". The magazine is available on newsstands, by subscription or online on their website www.vintage motorsport.com .
Enjoy the read!
Take care,
Mike
#73
jeffbee
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Posted 02 May 2019 - 15:45
Good morning,
Thanks to everyone who helped me put together my latest article on a pair of Chevy IIs that raced in British saloon car racing\g during 1962. They were driven by Peter Sachs and Chuck Kelsey. Both cars had Corvette V8s, a Rochester FI one in Kelsey's car and a carbureted version in Sachs'. They appeared eleven times that year, taking home a pair of victories.
The article appears in the May/Jun issue of "Vintage Motorsport" magazine under the title "Chuck and Pete's Excellent Adventure". The magazine is available on newsstands, by subscription or online on their website www.vintage motorsport.com .
Enjoy the read!
Take care,
Mike
I recall seeing them race at Crystal Palace. The Palace was a little too tight for them!!
#74
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 03 May 2019 - 00:12
Chevy Nova afaik only had small block engines. A true medium sized car with a double wishbone suspension not unlike a Falcon. Reputedly very early ones were available with Rochestor efi.
I have a customer with a 64 that he is barstadising with an LSX and 6 speed. Car is a factory 327 4 speed with drum brakes.
These are a car that should be great as a Nb racecar [pre 65] here in Oz but it seem have never been succesfull. I understand disc brakes were an option so should be a true Mustang protaginist.
#75
Ray Bell
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Posted 03 May 2019 - 00:32
I don't think they'd have had discs in '64, Lee, and that's the cutoff...
Yes, a shame if someone is doing that to a genuine V8 4-speed car. There wouldn't be many of those in Australia, possibly only that one?
Yes, a shame if someone is doing that to a genuine V8 4-speed car. There wouldn't be many of those in Australia, possibly only that one?
#76
KBY191
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Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:40
Some in period detail in respect to the Gurney car
#77
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 03 May 2019 - 10:31
The comment about the wallowing Pussy Cats is very true, every pic you see of them they are on the doorhandles.
They do seem a LOT better now!
I suspect the Jag is near as heavy as the Chev as well. Anyone know what those things weighed in period?
They had to ban the car as it made them look bad.
A bit like a V8 Stupidcar team owner here in Oz currently!
#78
KBY191
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#79
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 05 May 2019 - 13:32
No doubt a fabulous thing!
Very good clip, I had been going to suggest it but my computer skills are beyond posting a link.
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#80
cooper997
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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:15
From 11/61 Motor Racing's Alan Brinton interview with CSI's M Hubert Schroeder with Impala discussion.
Stephen
#81
Lola5000
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Posted 06 October 2021 - 08:47
If one Googles "Dan Gurney Chev 409" their is 4 Youtube clips on the car which is now back in the UK.
#82
Gary C
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Posted 06 October 2021 - 13:28
...and if you look VERY carefully at those clips, you'll see my archive footage from Silverstone back in the day!
