108 replies to this topic

[RTH]

Gary C and myself spent a most enjoyable day yesterday looking around the whole Brooklands site.

We were puzzled by the function of some of the buildings, and just how original they were.



Near the footbridge at the bottom of the banking three strange brick built structures had been set in o the concrete supporting wall. We discounted signaling or marshal posts as the position at the inside apex of the corners gave no view of the action when you stood inside or tried to look out of the small holes. Strange.








At the top of the members hill there is a brick building ,three in fact in a Vee formation ,described in the guide as the Members Hill restaurant, these buildings that seem far too large for this and with few and high windows,especially on the far side out of shot, very thick walls with different brick and different roof types. Again strange , there must be more here that meets the eye ..




Right behind these buildings is the anti-aircraft re-inforced pre cast concrete gun platform .

These buldings are boarded up with keep out signs and no plans for any restoration. I don't doubt there was a restaurant there , but was what we now see there something added to during the war for military purposes. Again strange, I wonder if Bill Boddy has ever written on these topics.

Wish we could see him write on this forum.

[Cirrus]

I did one of the Brooklands winter "Ghost Tours" last year, and I'm sure those buildings were mentioned, but I've forgotten what the guide said. The ghost tours are very enjoyable BTW.

If we're talking about Brooklands buildings, what about that new Mercedes Benz edifice?

[RTH]

Having not been there for 15 years I was very sad to see the enormous amount of retail and industrial buildings that have been put up inside the bowl of the former circuit.

The Mercedes -Benz building whilst it must have cost a great deal of money and does have a car heritage connection sadly is build in their modern corporate corrugated grey metal style and I think looks very out of place so near to all the historic Brooklands buildings, bit of a planning failure I feel.

The exhibits both car, aircraft and buildings are fascinating, the clubhouse is beautifully preserved as a working building . It's still a magical place , pity the whole site could not have been protected from modern haphazard modern building development making it unrecognisable.

It's still a must visit though.

[Geoff E]

The small buildings by the banking appear to have reinforced concrete roofs and thick walls (thicker than sheds would need anyway) so were perhaps wartime constructions.

[RTH]

http://www.brookland...ing_history.cfm

[Cirrus]

I completely agree about the MB building - it looks totally out of place.

This is from the Heritage Centre website

Quote

Visitors to Mercedes-Benz World will enter an experiential and interactive world

.......a candidate for the "For Sure" thread?

[2F-001]

"experiential" qualifies it for Pseuds Corner in Private Eye.

[Gary Davies]

Two pics, taken on New Year's Day 2004. The first shows two old relics at Brooklands - the Members' Bridge and a miscellaneous relic. The second does not features structures (aside from the aforementioned bridge in the background) and is taken from the extremity of the current site, back to the fence, alongside which is the River Wey and the railway track. The camera fails to adequately represent the extreme angle of the banking at the top, not to mention the slipperyness of the poor, disused concrete in the dampness of winter. The (unseen) fence was the only way of scaling the heights on the day.





I must say that I was hugely thrilled to discover that it was possible to drive the Avis rentabomb from the car park onto the track - slowly and respectfully - and thereby lay claim to having driven on the Brooklands banking.

[kevthedrummer]

From July 2006:

[kevthedrummer]

According to this - http://www.peterrenn...t/archive3.html - the buildings at the bottom of the Member's Banking were for timekeepers. In the same article there is mention of a pre-war Ford chassis embedded in the ground. Does anyone know anything about this?

[simonlewisbooks]

Quote

Originally posted by kevthedrummer
According to this - http://www.peterrenn...t/archive3.html - the buildings at the bottom of the Member's Banking were for timekeepers. In the same article there is mention of a pre-war Ford chassis embedded in the ground. Does anyone know anything about this?

Sounds highly unlikely that they were for timkeepers for the reasons already mentioned (no view). I can't recall seeing a prewar shot of these structures in place and I have abvout two thousand Brooklands photos on file. They seem much more likely to be wartime buildings. The banking at this point was built on during the war and actually restored in the 70s or 80s when a hanger-like building was removed. There must be a connection I would think .

Comments at the time pointed out it actually took the workmen longer to make good the fairly small hole left in the banking than it had to build the whole track in 1905-6 !

[RTH]

It is a sort of reasonable assumption, but having been in them, it would be completely impractical unless it was all done electronically , with sensors on the cars as there is no line of sight at all.

100 years ago presumably it was all by eye and a mechanical stopwatch.
The construction really does not look part of any original track design.
I wonder if there are any photos of this exact area taken pre WW2 or indeed pre WW1 for that matter to see if they were in place then. I am yet to be convinced time keepers worked in there.
In the Morris Minor £100 car film of 1930 at the track testing it for 100 MPH they did have a mechanical timing system but that was positioned halfway down the straight between the bankings on the infield giving plenty of view, for the timekeepers working the system.

[RTH]

Quote

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


............ They seem much more likely to be wartime buildings. The banking at this point was built on during the war and actually restored in the 70s or 80s when a hanger-like building was removed. There must be a connection I would think .

Comments at the time pointed out it actually took the workmen longer to make good the fairly small hole left in the banking than it had to build the whole track in 1905-6 !

Now that is interesting because if you look at that area of track the quality of the concrete is very much better , smoother, less broken up and not so old looking . Possible it is 60 years old rather than 100, it does look like a "New " section right in front of the three boxes.

Maybe some big structure was set in to the hillside horizontally in this area during WW2 and reinstated by the government at the end of hostilities in 1945 when some people still had some hope of racing returning to Brooklands at some point post war. I wonder if there are any aerial photos during/post war of the site or from Vickers or the military that may give some clues.

[Paul Parker]

By the way kevthedrummer are you aware that clicking on your two Brooklands shots produced not only a larger image of the track but three thumbnails of luxury tartettes who can apparently be dated (numbers supplied) plus details of a Spanish holiday resort at La Manga.

Upon returning to the images these have now disappeared. I'm not exactly computer savvy so who's being targeted here, me or you?

[RTH]

Oh well that is just more "Ghosts of Brooklands " at work !

Incidently whatever happened to the "BROOKLANDS " feature film with was announced with such a fanfare a couple of years ago ( which Pete feared would be a 'Brillianteened Driven' ) It's all gone very quiet.

http://forums.autosp...ds feature film

http://forums.autosp...ds feature film

[David McKinney]

Did one of those small buildings have "Ladies" above the door and the other "Gents"?

[RTH]

[Vitesse2]

Quote

Originally posted by kevthedrummer
According to this - http://www.peterrenn...t/archive3.html - the buildings at the bottom of the Member's Banking were for timekeepers. In the same article there is mention of a pre-war Ford chassis embedded in the ground. Does anyone know anything about this?

This may be a confusion between the Members' and Byfleet Bankings. Between the Railway Straight Start and the Byfleet Banking there were five timing boxes situated on the inside of the track: the first was at the Railway Straight Start and the second at the Railway Straight Finishing Line (0.5 km from the start). There were further boxes at the half-mile, kilometre and mile.

See diagram 18 in Tony Hutchings' "Administration of Racing at Brooklands".;)

[Henk Vasmel]

Quote

Originally posted by RTH

[/B]

Is this really Concorde? Last time I was there (2004) it was in pieces, which allowed me to take some beautiful pictures of its entrails. But from your picture, I gather that it has been assembled and can be visited. OK, re-visit Brooklands as soon as possible.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[Alan Cox]

Those concrete-roofed buildings certainly have the look of wartime structures. Remember that canvas "decoy" buildings were plastered about the banking to disguise it.

My father worked for Vickers at Brooklands during the early years of the war before he joined the Navy, and recalls that the day that Brooklands was bombed, he was off sick. When he got in the next day he found that the place he used to hang his coat had been blown away!

[LotusElise]

Was there anything inside the small mystery buildings eg evidence of pumps, generators etc?

They look like they could be machinery sheds or perhaps storage magazines for something.

[kevthedrummer]

Quote

Originally posted by Paul Parker
By the way kevthedrummer are you aware that clicking on your two Brooklands shots produced not only a larger image of the track but three thumbnails of luxury tartettes who can apparently be dated (numbers supplied) plus details of a Spanish holiday resort at La Manga.

Damn! Why don't they appear for me? I must have a cheap computer

[kevthedrummer]

Quote

Originally posted by LotusElise
Was there anything inside the small mystery buildings eg evidence of pumps, generators etc?

They look like they could be machinery sheds or perhaps storage magazines for something.

I had a look inside one of them but, even on a sunny afternoon, they were extremely dark. I remember there were some old light switches still in place just inside the door and that the building was split into several smaller rooms. They also seemed to extend back a fair way. Next time someone from TNF visits a torch might be a good idea.

[kevthedrummer]

In light of my previous comment that the buildings extend back a fair way and are built into a bank, could they possibly have been air-raid shelters for employees of Vickers?

[Gary C]

we thought that, but really, they don't seem big enough for bomb shelters, the rooms inside look big enought for about 10 people, with a smaller room at the front, which put me in mind of a toilet, as it was small enough, and still had a door frame intact!

[2F-001]

Cirrus - do you know if the "Ghost Tours" still take place? (Or is it a 'members' thing?)
I was wondering if it was something the 'Weybridge' mob could do sometime. Could you bear to do it again?
I've not been to Brooklands for a couple of years or more.

Some years back we had a Lotus Seven Club meet there - I must dig out the pic of massed Sevens high on the Members' Banking.

[Twin Window]

I must say - I've not yet been there - that the venue does look potentially 'spooky'. So does it *feel* that way, when you're there in person?

I'm familiar with [some of] the old Monza layout, which is absolutely awe-inspiring, but - for me, at any rate - isn't really 'spooky'.

I must get down to Brooklands sometime; I've been past a few times, but on each occasion I was 'on a mission'...

[D-Type]

Quote

Originally posted by 2F-001
Cirrus - do you know if the "Ghost Tours" still take place? (Or is it a 'members' thing?)
I was wondering if it was something the 'Weybridge' mob could do sometime. Could you bear to do it again?
I've not been to Brooklands for a couple of years or more.

Some years back we had a Lotus Seven Club meet there - I must dig out the pic of massed Sevens high on the Members' Banking.

Sounds a good idea, tony.

You must post the Sevens picture - I can't think of a car less suitable for racing at Brooklands. The Seven has the aerodynamics of a brick; the light weight that would mean they'd be airborne half the time; Lotus's notorious fragility isn't compatible with the bumps; etc

[Cirrus]

I'll check up on the Ghost Tours. The website doesn't mention them, but there is a halloween torchlight tour. I would be surprised if they have stopped the ghost tours as when I went there were three or four groups, each with about twenty people. The evening was rounded off with a fish and chip supper, and the bar was open! It wasn't a members-only thing.

[RTH]

Quote

Originally posted by Twin Window
I must say - I've not yet been there - that the venue does look potentially 'spooky'. So does it *feel* that way, when you're there in person?

Yes it really does have that feel about it , certainly the parts discussed that clearly are untouched for at least 60 years, neglected, overgrown , no people about at all, its altogether a strange experience in this day and age where people and constant intervention is everywhere all the time,

Seems there is still much of the story to be unravelled, still a very big site , well worth a visit or two.

[Vitesse2]

Haunted Brooklands

[simonlewisbooks]

Quote

Originally posted by RTH


Now that is interesting because if you look at that area of track the quality of the concrete is very much better , smoother, less broken up and not so old looking . Possible it is 60 years old rather than 100, it does look like a "New " section right in front of the three boxes.

Maybe some big structure was set in to the hillside horizontally in this area during WW2 and reinstated by the government at the end of hostilities in 1945

Here's the reason. This was a shot taken in 1974 at the reunion showing the 'hanger' next to where those mystery building are. So the concrete here now is actually only late 70s vintage!

[simonlewisbooks]

I'm trying to find an aerial shot that shows the spot where the buildings are now but few ever seem to have been taken from the right direction. Here's the top end of the track before the Campbell circuit was built. It's not clear but I can't see any sign of those small buildings at the foot of the hill in the early 30s.

[simonlewisbooks]

Quote

Originally posted by RTH

I think this is a similar shot - with the hanger out of shot to the right- taken in 74 when rather more of the banking remained.....

[simonlewisbooks]

Found a better shot... taken 1977 and showing the hanger to the lower left, the lack of that famous bridge ( rebuilt much later - the one there now is a replica...) and the secion of banking that has been demolished in more recent years (between the gap and the Campbell Circuit) so someone could build another office block there.
You can also see the Campbell circuit and finishing straight (partly built over but visible)extending out of shot to the right.These sections have now vanished and the Vickers buildings (extended from the original Itala works) at the top right, which obliterated The Fork during the war, have now gone too.

You can see why some members of the Brooklands Society harboured hopes for many years that the banking,finishing straight and what remaining bit of Campbell circuit could be turned back into a short but usable track if the hangers were removed and the gap in the banking reinstated. Of course that never took Surrey land values into account...

[RTH]

Great photographs Simon.

It is just too much of a co-incidence, the three little track side block buildings have to be connected with the building in your '74 photo cut in to the banking , - its all right in the same spot and with the new track concrete. I feel sure they would have been a wartime addition and not there at all when the circuit was used for racing pre 1939. Great to see photographic evidence !

Who would have paid for and indeed done the banking restoration work post 1974 ? , - its a very good job and a huge area.

From the aerial shot you can see the sheer scale of those buildings on the top of the test hill far too big to be a restaurant - clearly the guide book is wrong here as well .

You can also clearly see the anti-aircraft gun concrete platform.

I wonder if there is any reference to Brooklands in military and RAF history books , we might find more from that direction ?

[RTH]

You can clearly see the new concrete area



view down from the top of the test hill



Hawker Harrier



The test hill in between the white railings ( with Gary C in the gateway ! )

[Hse289]

Very interesting thread, and i thoroughly enjoyed all of the pictures. I too was wondering about the little buildings at the bottom. Must visit again and take a torch.
I remember standing at the top of Test Hill last year and thinking what a fantastic view the fans must have had of the vast area.
Any news on the missing banking that should go across the river Wey. I think i read somewhere that it was going to be rebuilt. Paul

[f1steveuk]

I joined the Brooklands Soc' at the tender age of 12, having read about Percy Lambert and the ghostly goings on there, and the fascination that a whole track lay, unused not far from where I lived. I visited one I was fourteen, and was really annoyed when I was told I couldn't take a look. Then an old boy, who was the maintainance man for B A told the gaurds I was with him, and I spent four hours having a guided tour! This was when the "village" still existed, right down to the morgue, that still had a stained slab in it. The atmosphere around the whole place was weird, and it looked like someone had just said, "lets go have a war, leave everything here, we'll be back soon" My first visit was in 1974. I was told the buildings in the inside of the banking were war time additions and had something to do with the artifical buildings put on the banking to disguise the track from German bombers.He called them "control rooms". The V shaped building on top of the members hill is the Blue Bird Cafe, famed for being the source of tea trays used to tobogan down the test hill in winter!

Years later, as a member of the BS, I helped with track clearance, and days before Chuck and Di, sorry the Prince of Wales married Lady Diana Spencer, I was at the track, at the base of the test hill, weeding ready for the reunion. Suddenly, the chap I was with (about 85 I think!) and myself were aware of a droning noise, and a huge shadow over us, it was the Goodyear blimp. "Bugger me" said my old chum, "last time I was here and that happened it was the Hiddenburg going to fly over Wembley".....

[simonlewisbooks]

Quote

Originally posted by RTH

Who would have paid for and indeed done the banking restoration work post 1974 ? , - its a very good job and a huge area.

From the aerial shot you can see the sheer scale of those buildings on the top of the test hill far too big to be a restaurant - clearly the guide book is wrong here as well .

The job was, I believe, paid for by the then landowners who were one of the big brewery chains (the Distillers Group perhaps? I can't exactly recall) as part recompense for knocking down large numbers of listed buildings and bits of track at the far end of the site. They demolished the WW1 hangers, the world's first every airline ticket office, Parry Thomas' bungelow and so forth. MOTOR SPORT ran a lead story in 1978 headlined something like "The Rape Of Brooklands". A huge row resulted and from this was reached an agreement to build a replacement for the old bridge, lay the new concrete where than hanger had been and a few hollow assurances that "nothing else will be knocked down, honest guv! " which if course it was and continues to be.

There was large restaurant (or probabaly 'Tea room' in those days) on top of the test hill but maybe not either of the actualy buildings there now.The contemporary illustration below (unknown source, sorry) shows them along with grandstands and other buildings although as this is artwork rather than a photo one cannot be sure of it's accuracy.
Possibly the original buildings were wooden and simply bricked round during the war?

[Cirrus]

Great memories, Steve - did you know Bert Nicholls, one of the Brooklands Society founders? I worked at BAe Weybridge from 1979 to 1984, and there was still a lot of memorabilia lying around then. I seem to recall hearing that during one of the war years, 750 Wellington bombers were built at Brooklands - that's two brand new aircraft flying out nearly every day!

Incidentally, having had a painful encounter with a blackberry bush after tobogganing down the Brooklands banking on a tea tray, I shudder to think what sort of speeds would have been achieved down Test Hill!

BTW - Ghost Tours should start running again in late November until February/March

[Paul Parker]

Upon further reflection after viewing the various colour pics I was reminded of my visit in 1969 when I effectively broke in somewhere round the 'test hill' area and had to hide after being spotted and two large blokes in a Land Rover suddenly motored up.

What also sticks in my mind was seeing how thin the upper concrete surface of the banking was and the fact that it was sitting on a fairly lightweight steel mesh that was directly laid upon the earth underneath. No wonder it became so bumpy and lumpy after hard use and the damage done by solid wheeled army vehicles during WW1.

I also seem to remember that the deeds to the circuit were held by one of the officials during WW2 and he then sold Brooklands after the war before anybody could stop him including the Earl Howe and other significant worthies.

David Venables will know all about this if he's out there.

[h4887]

http://maps.google.c...042915&t=k&om=1

[Cirrus]

Sadly, that picture is very out of date. The Rape Of Brooklands continues, apparentlly without any moderating influence.

[Gary C]

quote from an early 50's newsreel : 'I'm afraid, Brooklands has had it.'

[Twin Window]

For the benefit of those who noticed, I unintentionally *closed* this thread a wee while ago.

I'm sorry about that; it was simply 'finger-trouble' on my behalf... (but a thank you anyway to those who prodded me about it!)

[RTH]

This is really all that is left of the site, not much when the circuit was about 3 miles in length





Some footage via youtube

Driving the test hill in a Frogeye Sprite



http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

[RTH]

Noticed on the way home nearby a new pub which looked all chrome and glass had opened in the high street called :-

"The Percy Lambert "

I wonder how many of the patrons have any idea who he was ?

............and I wonder how many other pubs are named after famous racing drivers or speed record holders ?



Is the Locke-King country house still in existence , presumably nearby as Brooklands was put in the grounds ? if so I wonder what use it is put to these days.

After the original building cost of the circuit was put at £20.000 which when it opened in 1907 had inflated to £150,000..............perhaps £50M ? in todays money.........a relative bargin in comparison with the £750M to rebuild Wembley Stadium today (latest is Wembley stadium is now to cost in excess of £850 Million Pounds ) ! Is that actually going to be open in time for even next years cup final - some 5 years late and over £500 M over the original quotation for the job .

http://www.brookland...ry_thetrack.cfm

The decision to build the track was only taken in the summer of 1906 ..........yet it was formally opened on 17 th June 1907 !!

[f1steveuk]

Bert Nichols? That name rings a bell, but I'm not certain why!

The old "flying village" was very spooky, but to go into Parry Thomas' Hermitage and actually sit at his work bench was something else! I was actually told by one guy there (in 1974) that his dog was descended from Thoma' dog, Togo!

Of course I was told how Lambert had crashed his Talbot and when they picked up his goggles his eyes were still in them!! Yeah, ok!!

The Brooklands Technical College uses Locke-Kings house, which I enjoyed knowing when I lectured there as no one else seemed to know.

Malcolm Campbell as head of the board of directors is tributed with effecting the sale of Brooklands to Vickers for £330,000 I think.

[f1steveuk]

Forgot!!!


So when I got home after my first visit to Brooklands, my mum sent me to the butchers. I lived in Eastbourne, and when I brought the sausages I had been sent for I began telling the lady behind the counter where I had been. "My great uncle raced there, he was killed there in his MG" She showed me the pictures, what a coincedence. There I was standing in Leesons in Eastbourne, looking at pictures of the remains of Mr Leeson's MG, upside down on the spot I had been standing on the day before, and years later I worked on the car as well. Cue music from the X files...............