309 replies to this topic

[OO7]

Hello

I think this is an interesting excerpt from the Autosport 'Q & A with Lewis Hamilton' interview.

"Q. What are the differences between an F1 car and a GP2 car?"

"LH: There is quite a big difference, although a lot of drivers say it is quite similar. The driving style is fairly similar, although in GP2 you don't have traction control; you have to control the car a lot more. In F1, you have to use the electronics a lot more to help you, and get the car on the limit.

Driving the car around and doing reasonable times is not such a problem, but getting the car on the edge is tougher and way beyond anything I've driven in the past. So I need to make sure I am mentally prepared and ready to understand everything that goes on over a GP weekend. I need to understand the car as much as Fernando does; setting up the car and getting it on its edge. That will be the main challenge."

Obi

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by Obi Offiah
Hello

I think this is an interesting excerpt from the Autosport 'Q & A with Lewis Hamilton' interview.

"Q. What are the differences between an F1 car and a GP2 car?"

"LH: There is quite a big difference, although a lot of drivers say it is quite similar. The driving style is fairly similar, although in GP2 you don't have traction control; you have to control the car a lot more. In F1, you have to use the electronics a lot more to help you, and get the car on the limit.

Driving the car around and doing reasonable times is not such a problem, but getting the car on the edge is tougher and way beyond anything I've driven in the past. So I need to make sure I am mentally prepared and ready to understand everything that goes on over a GP weekend. I need to understand the car as much as Fernando does; setting up the car and getting it on its edge. That will be the main challenge."

Obi

From this I conclude that TC does not make it easier, it just moves the limit of car performance further.
The challenge to find that limit and consistently drive at that limit still remains.

[imaginesix]

Originally posted by Timstr11
From this I conclude that TC does not make it easier, it just moves the limit of car performance further.
The challenge to find that limit and consistently drive at that limit still remains.

What 'it' does TC not make any easier? It makes the driving easier and the setup harder: "The driving style is fairly similar, although in GP2 you don't have traction control; you have to control the car a lot more. In F1, you have to use the electronics a lot more to help you, and get the car on the limit." That means that in GP2 you have to control the car more, in F1 you don't have to so much. In F1 you have to use the electronics more, and of course that is going to happen in the setup, not in the driving.

The challenge will always remain since F1 is by it's nature a competition. The objection with TC is that it is less of a driver's challenge and more of an engineer's challenge, and Hamilton's quote only supports that assertion.

[Stian1979]

Originally posted by RDV

can you quote me the last 5 winners of the manufacturers championship off the top of your head?

Renault, ferrari, mclaren, williams, beneton,williams,mclaren. into the 80's it's a litle hard

[Fat Boy]

Originally posted by imaginesix
What 'it' does TC not make any easier? It makes the driving easier and the setup harder.....you have to use the electronics a lot more to help you, and get the car on the limit." In F1 you have to use the electronics more, and of course that is going to happen in the setup, not in the driving.

..The objection with TC is that it is less of a driver's challenge and more of an engineer's challenge, and Hamilton's quote only supports that assertion.

I don't take young Lewis' comments in the same vein. I take it as in corner exit is spoken for, the electronics will take care of that. The difficult part of driving now is to concentrate on having the car on the edge in the entry/coasting phase of the corner. Since the power side of the corner has been addressed, now you have to carry a god-awful amount of speed into the corner. The trick is learning how to do that as efficiently as possible.

The entry portion of the corner is always the most difficult, so I'm not convinced that it makes things less difficult. It simply changes the focus.

[angst]

Originally posted by Fat Boy


I don't take young Lewis' comments in the same vein. I take it as in corner exit is spoken for, the electronics will take care of that. The difficult part of driving now is to concentrate on having the car on the edge in the entry/coasting phase of the corner. Since the power side of the corner has been addressed, now you have to carry a god-awful amount of speed into the corner. The trick is learning how to do that as efficiently as possible.

The entry portion of the corner is always the most difficult, so I'm not convinced that it makes things less difficult. It simply changes the focus.

Well I would disagree. I think that he is talking about set-up. Indded I believe thsi is more and more what F1 is about. It's not just the TC, see, it's the electronic diff as well. And the way tyre design has gone along with developments in electronic control is such that the human ability to hang the car on the edge is no longer good enough. There won't be anything like enough warning/feel from the tyres about the approach of their reaching their limit. Everything that drivers have learned through their junior career seems almost wasted in this environ.

So "Since the power side of the corner has been addressed, now you have to carry a god-awful amount of speed into the corner. The trick is learning how to do that as efficiently as possible." is right, but it's that the 'how' in that sentence is more to do with setting up than anything else.

[imaginesix]

Originally posted by Fat Boy
I don't take young Lewis' comments in the same vein. I take it as in corner exit is spoken for, the electronics will take care of that. The difficult part of driving now is to concentrate on having the car on the edge in the entry/coasting phase of the corner. Since the power side of the corner has been addressed, now you have to carry a god-awful amount of speed into the corner. The trick is learning how to do that as efficiently as possible.

The entry portion of the corner is always the most difficult, so I'm not convinced that it makes things less difficult. It simply changes the focus.

You always have to carry a god-awful amount of speed into the corner, TC doesn't affect the performance capability at that point. As soon a the driver hits his braking point he is commited to a particular line through the corner (if he's any good) and TC just means that if he's still on course when he transitions back to the throttle, the rest is a cake-walk.

[imaginesix]

I can't believe none of us thought of this earlier, but apparently we didn't. If TC is impossible to regulate against, why do we still see drag races lost as a result of wheelspin? Huh? Huh?

[desmo]

I think they use essentially spec powertrains in TF nowadays don't they?

[imaginesix]

So now you're saying it IS possible to ban TC, you just don't like the side-effects. That's fine, but my question 309 posts ago specifically excluded the argument of whether such a ban is desireable. Besides, you should understand that it is perfectly reasonable to be against TC and at the same time be against a ban on TC. There is no contradiction there. It is exactly like being against Saddam Hussein and also against the war in Iraq, the idea is simply that the proposed cure may be worse than the disease.

Another issue that I linked to 309 posts ago which remains unanswered until now was the possiblility that a TC module may be miniaturised to such an extent thaf it could be made integral to the coil or even spark plug wires so it could never be detected. TF racing appears to show that this is a lie.

Anyways, I apologise in advance for spiking this thread with more of my geopolitical ideological ramblings, I guess it just shows you where my head is at.

Also, love the sig desmo.