104 replies to this topic

[Legolaz]

i mean yes because if you look at the figures:
of the 6 races he was in, he didnt score any point except in Monza, and he never finished in front of where he started except Monza.

In all races (only Monza no) he throw his car off the road...
I think this is too much for calling him for rookie of the 2006.

Rosberg had better races and he drive all 2006 season.

[prty]

I think that not a bit, and he'll prove it next season.

[giacomo]

Yep, Kubica only scored once in 6 races. And Rosberg scored twice in 18 races. Not so much better, I am afraid.

BTW, I really would like to hear more details about the "better races" Rosberg allegedly had.

[Modern Lover]

He did a stirling job at Monza, no doubt, but hailing him as a future WDC after that perfomance is going a bit overboard IMHO.
Rosberg too got rave reviews after the flyaways. Look where he is now, Vettel and Kubica have taken the air out of his baloon, stolen his thunder etc etc.
Nevertheless, lets not take anything away from him. Its still very early days in his hopefully long and porsperous carreer.

[SeanValen]

I would be worried if he was underatted. Takes time for the hype to match race long career consistency, give it 1-2 seasons, then we'll have a clear picture.

[kodandaram]

The media always overhypes a new driver if he is half good . Honestly Kubica has at least matched what Villeneuve could have hypothetically done on an average if he had been kept for the remainder of the season .

There is also the element of some ppl in the paddock and media wanting to justify Kubica's promotion so the hype was always going to be there . But he has driven well . Monza was a superb drive. He is young . He is quick - he shows maturity on track - and he defends well - Brazil for example on the opening lap - something his predecessor -JV seemed to have forgotten in the last few races.

I think he is one for the future but I wouldn't put him down as a champioship material just yet - he has to learn a lot and he seems to be progressing.

[MortenF1]

There's a lot of potential there, definately.
It would be logical if he progressed to becoming faster than Heidfeld consistently next year, and if he can manage that, he's an extremely good driver.

[Legolaz]

Originally posted by giacomo
BTW, I really would like to hear more details about the "better races" Rosberg allegedly had.

2x 7th place is more than one luckly 3rd (because FA and FM car damange).

I dont want bash RK but I think people overated him on this board. Sorry fanboys but he show nothing.

Mayby he is good driver but he have to prove it.

Some fans will call me as troll but I want to show you all that I dont understand why Rosberg is no rookie of the year. I cant.

he defends well - Brazil for example on the opening lap

sorry my friend but mayby Im blind...
What defend in Brazil ? 3 times easy overtake by MS ?

[Modern Lover]

Originally posted by kodandaram
The media always overhypes a new driver if he is half good . Honestly Kubica has at least matched what Villeneuve could have hypothetically done on an average if he had been kept for the remainder of the season .

There is also the element of some ppl in the paddock and media wanting to justify Kubica's promotion so the hype was always going to be there . But he has driven well . Monza was a superb drive. He is young . He is quick - he shows maturity on track - and he defends well - Brazil for example on the opening lap - something his predecessor -JV seemed to have forgotten in the last few races.
I think he is one for the future but I wouldn't put him down as a champioship material just yet - he has to learn a lot and he seems to be progressing.

I don't know if he (and 80% of the field for that matter) defended with any quality at all when a certain, now retired driver appeared in their mirrors
BTW, I think it is time we all gave poor old JV a break. I am sure he would have done as well, if not even better than Kubica had he had the drive

[Jackman]

Kubica also scored in his first race, but was disqualified because of his tyres.

[Modern Lover]

Originally posted by Jackman
Kubica also scored in his first race, but was disqualified because of his tyres.

IIRC, underweight car.

[Taxi]

not a fan of Kubica but he sure seems very very competitive. I mean.... Look what he did to JV former WDC legacy... Rookie of the year for me. Speed and Rosberg did well too.

[jokuvaan]

Every media and person rates Kubica in different way so its impossible to know is he over-rated.

[Imperial]

To answer this thread's question all depends on who is rating him, what he is being rated as, and why.

As it stands, he has had only six races (with a couple of tracks he had to learn on race weekend) and has scored a podium already.

It's actually good going for a rookie who has come from relatively nowhere and is in a relatively average car.

He certainly didn't ride into F1 on a wave of hype the way somebody such as Montoya, for example did, with his CART title in his debut year and an Indy 500 win.

What is it that's really upsetting people - that some kid has been given his F1 break at the expense of Jacques Villenueve or that he is being expected in some quarters to be winning every race he enters already?

I don't think Kubica asked for either of those things, yet that is all that seems to be upsetting people about him.

And why the constant comparisons to Nico Rosberg?

They have entered F1 having different backgrounds (Nico made it up as far as GP2 Champion - Kubica didn't go that far), in different circumstances (Nico has the benefit of winter testing knowing he was a race driver, and has just done a full season - compared to Kubica's winter knowing his place is solely as a tester, then being thrown in at the deep end with only a handful of races left in the season, taking a World Champions seat), and teams (Nico is in the poor Williams so gets applauded for taking rookie points, Kubica is in a fairly decent-ish BMW so gets slagged off for not getting major results in ever race, despite being a rookie).

I fail to see why anybody actually had any expectations on Kubica anyway, considering he is only a rookie (previous tester or not, he's still a rookie) and had only six races to show for 2006. Let's not forget he hadn't actually raced in anything this year prior to those six outings.

I therefore can't understand why people could be disappointed in him or say things like he is overrated. Who is rating him based on what?

And why is he being singled out?

Because he replaced JV?

Because he is in a BMW?

Because he was a tester and therefore must be amazing? (In which case why not sack all the race drivers and swap them with the testers?).

Because he isn't Nico Rosberg?

What is it? What makes Kubica such a huge topic of discussion just because he didn't manage to win the World Drivers Championship during those first six races of his?

[Arrow]

Kubica seemed to be faster than Heidfeld in every race, so no I dont think hes over rated. He looks very good.

[magicalonso]

Alonso has said he (RK) is the most talented driver currently. I also happen to think he is the real deal - he has been extremely impressive on race pace so far especially when compared to Heidfeld who everybody agrees is a consistent performer with solid race pace. Qualifying could use some work, but he'll improve with maturity. IMO he's a dark horse for WDC next year [all depends on the car, but I can see him delivering] and certainly a league above Rosberg.

[Bucza]

Kubica was 7th on his debut. He scored 2 points. They were taken from his, and we know why. But it wasn't Robert fault. Not the tyres. Extinguisher Valve in his car failed !! And that was his first contact with F1 on the wet.
He was 3th in his 3rd race. After great start (from 6 to 3rd position) !! Why some people writing about Felipe? He was all the race behind RK ... for 3/4 of the race he was unable to overtook Pole. And Kubica show in Italy, that he know how to driver under pressure.
Of course he made rookie mistakes. For heaven's sake is rookie ! He had only 6 races in F1. He wasn't Indy 500 winner, USA series champion or GP2. He was WorldSeriesbyRenault (WorldSeriesbyNissan) winner and work as a tester in F1 was something unexpected for him. Remember that.
He show that he is true figther on the track ... i like itd. He made mistakes in China (wrong tyres choice) or in Japan (off the track excursion) ... but his pace was great. For most of the time his pace was better than Nick. And that's great for the future.

As a rookie, he:

- was 5th time (on 6) in top ten after qual.
- he finished all six races !! (great achievement)
- 7th on debut, 3rd in 3rd GP
- 3:3 to Nick when we talk about races
- He has never been on F1 track at China, Bahrain, Japan . He has to learn tracks in 2 days.

Of course, Nick could be better driver at this point. He is more experienced, and not making mistakes like Kubica. But Robert has better pace (race) and if he gain some experience, he could be a really good driver in the future. Much better, than Nick.

[Rene]

Kubica drove well, and always looked on it, in terms of results on more than one occasion the team gave him a risky strategy which did not pay off, so his results were not as good as they could have been. For a young driver to come in during a season filling a former WDC's seat, I give him full props for his drives. The proof will come next year as to how he rates.

[Mauseri]

With some experience he should beat Heidfeld easily. Doesnt reflect Heidfeld and the ex-teammate alive-eater Webber in too good light. Newer thought they were top drivers. Alonso was always better than Webber and Kimi was always going to be better than Heidfeld.

[Menace]

Originally posted by race addicted
There's a lot of potential there, definately.
It would be logical if he progressed to becoming faster than Heidfeld consistently next year, and if he can manage that, he's an extremely good driver.

Well said. I'm going to stay off the bandwagon 'till then.

[peroa]

Nice picture:

[Peri_Piket]

IMO, Kubica is the best rookie since Kimi.
Interesting.
Both had Heidfeld as his firt teamate, racing almost on pair.

But Kubica had a podium finish and Kimi didn't.

Shall we wait for a whole season, to have a say about Kubica?

[lukywill]

alonso is devaluating rosberg value because he wants his place at williams.

and notice the rk is kr, just change the letters.

[speedmaster]

Kubica is good, Rosberg also... as Massa they were rushed into driving in F1 and not everyone is a Senna or a Kimi. They will show it up when they get a good car and settle down a little gaining more experience... I've said it before, 2007 is a transitional year... 2008 will be "the year"... Rosberg, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Piquet Jr, Hamilton... We should see the last year of Rubens, Fisi, DC, etc.

Cheers

[zooropa21]

I like the guy . His presence kept me from falling asleep in the final races of the season.


Zooropa21

[armonico]

Originally posted by magicalonso
Alonso has said he (RK) is the most talented driver currently.

That's right, magicalonso, which means that Kubica is over-rated since Alonso is quite underrated and he rates Kubica very very high.

[lukywill]

Originally posted by speedmaster
and not everyone is a Senna or a Kimi.

Cheers

did you mean a ms or alonso? lol

[Leyser]

Originally posted by Menace


Well said. I'm going to stay off the bandwagon 'till then.

Sensible, but too late for me - I've commited myself to the cause already - RK rules!

And why is he being singled out?

Because he replaced JV?

The OP practically flooded the Brazil live thread with anti-RK (and pro JV, IIRC) rantings, make of that what you will.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Legolaz
i mean yes because if you look at the figures:
of the 6 races he was in, he didnt score any point except in Monza, and he never finished in front of where he started except Monza.

In all races (only Monza no) he throw his car off the road...
I think this is too much for calling him for rookie of the 2006.

Rosberg had better races and he drive all 2006 season.

Welcome back xChema, I like the new nick.

I don't think the comparison to Rosberg is a good one. Rosberg had some really bad races, often qualifying poorly, made many mistakes, and his stock went down over the course of the year. Fair? Maybe not but he earned it with his driving. Kubica threw it off of the road a few times, most notibly in his first wet race, but had, to me anyway, better races than Rosberg. Definitely better qualifying.

Both are rookies though. Look for more inconsistencies next year. By 2008 we should know if either is the real deal.

[CONOSUR]

Is Kubica over-rated?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if a Brit were asking this (with a word ending in a vowel followed by a word beginning with a vowel), shouldn't the question be, "Is Kibiker over-rated?"

[Juan Kerr]

What a stupid thread, the guy fully earned a podium at Monza and has showed very good speed throughout the year, even an ex-world champion struggled to get it in the points let alone a podium and Nick Heidfeld is very very good as a comparison.

[Legolaz]

"repeat reapeat"



those video killin me lol lol

Rosberg cant do anything with his bad car.
Sorry but RK have much better car.

But 2007 season will great. Hamilton, Kovalainen, Rosberg, Masa vs Alonso, Kimi, Buton, Ralf, Fisi, Rubens.

Damm I cant wait for it.

[firebone]

First of the next big ones.

If BMW produces the car I think he could definitely deliver wins and a WDC down the road. Hes got the balls, the speed, and the oh so magic intuition.

[Exit716]

He came in and replaced a faded champion and made the team quicker overall and lit a fire under Nick's butt.
My new favourite F-1 driver.
Kubica had the advantage of driving for a better team as well, but I expect big things from him in the future.

[wingwalker]

a quick recap of rk performance

hungary: rk goes out twice in the first 20 laps of the race, but that is hardly surprising as this is his first time driving a f1 car in wet conditions (and first f1 race, too). he has some good moves (from what i remember he overtook massa and r. schumacher twice). finishes 7th, gets dq'ed. heidfeld has a very solid (and faultless, which was a key word in those conditions) race and finishes 3rd.

turkey: nh is ****ed straight from the begining, rk is doing really (i think he was 5-7th) well untill the first pitstop, after which he looses pace completely, eventually finishes... 12th? also, he goes off track on the turn 7 (together with half of the grid)

monza: nh: starts 6th, overtakes 3 cars during the start, looses position to alonso in pits, but luckily gets it back. is under massa/alonso preassure during the entire race but doesn't make a mistake. nh looses positions on the first laps and gets a drive-through (cause of pitlimiter malfucntion?)

china: nh has a very good drive, and is ****ed at the last lap. still, he finishes in points. rk is absolutely amazing in the first part of the race (overtakes 10 cars if i remember correctly, and scores the fastests lap at some point) but decides to switch to 'slicks' to quickly, and looses all he gained and more. still, imo first 25 laps were much more impressive than his drive in monza.

japan: rk starts 12th, finishes 9th, goes off and is very lucky to get back on track. he is visibly faster than his team-mate who shows not much more than reliability.

brazil: starts and finishes 9th, and overtakes nick on the first lap.


overall: it could have been much better with a bit of luck, but still it's pretty damn good for any driver, and really impressive for a rookie. he seems to be on a same level as nick (if not slightly higher). so, is he over-rated? i don't think so.


and just for the record: rk held back massa for the entire race in monza, not only after massa damaged his car. and it was massa, not rk, who panicked after alonso's engine went kaboom.

[metz]

Originally posted by Arrow
Kubica seemed to be faster than Heidfeld in every race, so no I dont think hes over rated. He looks very good.

There are only a hand full of drivers faster than Heidfeld.
But none are smarter and non have better racecraft than Nick.
Awsome in the wet, which to many is the true measure of a driver.

Heidfeld must be sick and tired of defending himself against the Next Great Thing.
He has beated (sometimes marginaly) EVERY teamate (bar HHF) so far.

Come to think of it, I'm also tired of defending against another guy that "seems" faster.
Last year Webber and Pizzonia. This year JV and Kubica. Next year Vettel and who knows.
I hear Zanardi is being fitted for the BMW.

No other driver has been tested as many times as Nick.

I like Kubica. I think he has great potential. Ask me again this time next year.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by metz
Come to think of it, I'm also tired of defending against another guy that "seems" faster.
Last year Webber and Pizzonia. This year JV and Kubica. Next year Vettel and who knows.
I hear Zanardi is being fitted for the BMW.

For starters, it's not you who has to defend against another guy that "seems" faster. That's Nick's job, and if he doesn't do it he's going to find Vettel occupying his berth before long.

As for Zanardi. You weren't being serious about that surely? (in that he's a consideration for a drive).

Alex Zanardi has been waiting for his promised "test" in a BMW powered car (BMW.Williams.F1 made the original offer to him, then BMW alone) since around 2000 - and he is still waiting for that "test".

[armonico]

I didn't like his attitude in the Brazilian GP though, when he pushed Nick needessly in the first lap, allowing MS to pass both and then surrender as if he was his team mate to MS on his two passes to him later in the race.

[Pacific22]

Originally posted by Exit716
He came in and replaced a faded champion and made the team quicker overall and lit a fire under Nick's butt.
My new favourite F-1 driver.
Kubica had the advantage of driving for a better team as well, but I expect big things from him in the future.

lit a fire under Nick's butt?

JV out qualified NH 7 to 5
NH out qualified Kubica 5 to 1

The car was quicker at the end of the year but was it due to replacing the faded champion or was the car just getting better?

"My new favourite F-1 driver."

I'm leaning that way also, but may go with Vettel if he gets a seat.

[Bruce]

Can't say that I'm all that impressed with Kubica...

He is probably a very talented guy - but the press, in their continual bid to make headlines have, I think, overhyped him. He certainly has not entered the sport with the same effect as one of the greats like Villeneuve (Gilles), Prost, Senna or Schumacher (I mention GV becuase of his quite impressive maiden race for mcLaren).

Honestly? Unless the guy improves considerably (which of course there is alot of time for) we will find that he is somewhere in and around Fisichella or Trulli - fast and good but not great.

[Defkes]

I was just thinking the same thing. Indeed, he scored in only one race, but when I look at his qualifying results, I must say, they are at least impressive. He outqualified Quick Nick several times and imo that's a great performance. During the race, he does make mistakes, but I think that's his overenthousiasm speaking.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by Bruce
He certainly has not entered the sport with the same effect as one of the greats like Villeneuve (Gilles), Prost, Senna or Schumacher.

It's easy to look back on those early careers with rose tinted spectacles though, because they were so long ago, the drivers were/are so revered (in the present day), and because of their subsequent success rates in later years (less so GV obviously).

But the plain facts look thus:

G Villenueve - a podium finish in his 15th race.

Prost - a podium finish in his 14th race (assuming his 'Did Not Start' and 'Did Not Participate's' are not counted)

Senna - a podium finish in his 5th race (or 6th if his non-qualification at San Marino is counted)

M Schumacher - a podium finish in his 8th race.

Kubica - a podium finish in his 3rd race.

Ignoring his ludicrous (although legitimate) disqualification in his debut race, only Kubica and Prost (from this group) finished in a points position on their debuts.

As Kubica subsequently beat Prost (and the others in this group) to a podium position, it could be legitimately argued that Kubica had an equal if not better entry to the sport than all the others.

It's only because Kubica's career is being scrutinised as it happens that his career thus far isn't held in the same or higher esteem than some other drivers, such as whom you have mentioned.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by Imperial


It's easy to look back on those early careers with rose tinted spectacles though, because they were so long ago, the drivers were/are so revered (in the present day), and because of their subsequent success rates in later years (less so GV obviously).

But the plain facts look thus:

G Villenueve - a podium finish in his 15th race.

Prost - a podium finish in his 14th race (assuming his 'Did Not Start' and 'Did Not Participate's' are not counted)

Senna - a podium finish in his 5th race (or 6th if his non-qualification at San Marino is counted)

M Schumacher - a podium finish in his 8th race.

Kubica - a podium finish in his 3rd race.

Ignoring his ludicrous (although legitimate) disqualification in his debut race, only Kubica and Prost (from this group) finished in a points position on their debuts.

As Kubica subsequently beat Prost (and the others in this group) to a podium position, it could be legitimately argued that Kubica had an equal if not better entry to the sport than all the others.

It's only because Kubica's career is being scrutinised as it happens that his career thus far isn't held in the same or higher esteem than some other drivers, such as whom you have mentioned.

Yeah - and Jacques Villeneuve won his fourth race ever, and very nearly won his first - but as much as I like JV, he was no Senna, Schumacher, or Prost...

Also, in 6 races, he had outqualified Heidfeld once - in his first chance at Hungary (9th to NH's 10th) other than that heidfeld had him. In races, again, Heidfeld beat Kubica in every race they both finished except Monza and Turkey - Monza where NH had a drive-through penalty and Turkey where NH's race was compromised by being hit by GF and the subsequent need for a new nosecone. In the remaining races, Heidfeld beat Kubica.

I think that the third at Monza had a lot more to do with a very powerful engine suited to Monza than any great talent on Kubica's part. Yes he absorbed pressure from those he was holding up, but the podium had more to do with the quality of the car and it's suitability to the track than it did with outright skill imho.

Kubica has been unfairly hyped as a testdriver by going out on Fridays and setting quickest times against all comers in a superlight car when the others weren't trying. Mario Theissen has used this as an excuse to promote the guy to the BMW seat. I wonder how long it is until he is replaced by Vettel? ;-)

[Imperial]

Originally posted by Bruce


Yeah - and Jacques Villeneuve won his fourth race ever, and very nearly won his first - but as much as I like JV, he was no Senna, Schumacher, or Prost...

I agree wholeheartedly, that's why I don't think comparing three world champions and the much loved Gilles Villenueve to Robert Kubica and his six debut races (after almost a full season of not racing) is either a very fair or a logically possible comparison.

I agree on your other points as well to be honest, but (as with the Monza comments) the same can be said of any or many a driver, that results rely heavily on quality of the car/engine.

After all, with your previous examples (Prost/Senna/Schuey) the really good results didn't start coming until the really good cars were beneath them.

I'm not particularly a Kubica fan I must say though.

I'm coming more from the point of view that he of course hasn't taken a WDC or even a race win yet, but he has looked pretty good so far given the car he has at his disposal, and he definitely hasn't disgraced himself in any way.

Hyperbole from the media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of pretty much life in general. It's what sells copies of Autosport.

There is a lyric in a song by The Cure in which Bob sings: "Please stop loving me, I am none of these things".

Maybe Bob Kubica feels the same way as Bob Smith !!

[Jordan191]

How many rookie drivers got a car the caliber of the 1996 Williams in their rookie season again?

[Bruce]

Originally posted by Imperial



I'm coming more from the point of view that he of course hasn't taken a WDC or even a race win yet, but he has looked pretty good so far given the car he has at his disposal, and he definitely hasn't disgraced himself in any way.

I agree - Kubica has looked OK - and the media storm surrounding his promotion ot F1 is hardly his fault.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by Bruce


Also, in 6 races, he had outqualified Heidfeld once - in his first chance at Hungary (9th to NH's 10th) other than that heidfeld had him. In races, again, Heidfeld beat Kubica in every race they both finished except Monza and Turkey - Monza where NH had a drive-through penalty and Turkey where NH's race was compromised by being hit by GF and the subsequent need for a new nosecone. In the remaining races, Heidfeld beat Kubica.

Hang on a second.
At Hungary Kubica was faster in the race in many parts.
At Monza he was ahead, before Nick got the drive through. (nicely ignored by you)
At China he was ahead of Nick before the wrong tyre call, wasnt he?
At Japan he was way faster.
At Brazil he was ahead all race and beat him.

[GrzegorzChyla]

Originally posted by Bruce


I agree - Kubica has looked OK - and the media storm surrounding his promotion ot F1 is hardly his fault.

media storm? You have not seen media storm. You are not reading polish press (I am)

And about Kubica?
I see it that way: when there is pure driving - he is fast.
But then his lack of experience shows: look at his pit adventure on Monza - FA simply outsmarted RK.
I may be wrong, but RK lost position twice when restarting from safety car. Or at last he was close to.
He definitely needs experience - and there is only one way to gain experience - by taking part in races.

Grzegorz

[Bruce]

Originally posted by Arrow


Hang on a second.
At Hungary Kubica was faster in the race in many parts.
At Monza he was ahead, before Nick got the drive through. (nicely ignored by you)
At China he was ahead of Nick before the wrong tyre call, wasnt he?
At Japan he was way faster.
At Brazil he was ahead all race and beat him.

Yeah - he's a star - the next Senna...

Believe what you want mate - he hasn't dominated Heidfeld.

In Japan if he was so much faster, why didn't he beat heidfeld? - Oh yeah - cause he drove off the track...

At Monza, he got the better start (kudos) but NH outqualified him by 3....

At Brazil you conveniently ignore the fact that NH retired with suspension damage. At Hungary, Kubica may have been faster than Nick "at many parts" as you suggest - who finished third tho? I seem to remember Kubica driving into the undergrowth several times? I suppose if you are going to drive off the track once every thirty laps you'd better be quick, eh?

And of course at China the team screwes him....

Write me back when he's won a WDC - I'm not holding my breath. He looks really good - if he's even coming close to competing with Heidfeld he must be...

But not great.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by GrzegorzChyla


media storm? You have not seen media storm. You are not reading polish press (I am)

And about Kubica?
I see it that way: when there is pure driving - he is fast.
But then his lack of experience shows: look at his pit adventure on Monza - FA simply outsmarted RK.
I may be wrong, but RK lost position twice when restarting from safety car. Or at last he was close to.
He definitely needs experience - and there is only one way to gain experience - by taking part in races.

Grzegorz

So is there a media storm in the Polish press? I suspect they are even more unbiased then the rest....

He is fast - well done. He does need experience, and he is doing very well.

The problem is that the press want to find the next "Senna" or "Schumacher" in every new driver who shows ANY talent whatsoever. I think that is tough on the driver - who needs that comparison?