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Does anybody miss DSJ?


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#351 Sterzo

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 14:51

Another year on.
I wonder what he would have made of modern F1 antics, or the state of modern histeric racing?

I liked DSJ's idea that the many recreations and continuations should simply be called "fakes."



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#352 john aston

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 17:32

I don't doubt he would have made some caustic comment and I would have enjoyed reading it, even if I disagreed with him as much as I did when he was still writing.. I lose no sleep - not even a wink - at continuation cars  and replicas . If the originals are around still , as some are, they would need substantial work (safety stuff, tyres, tanks,seats etc) to be race worthy and that alone  turns them into something different .Most are left in their air-conditioned secret barns , funded by some kleptocrat or dot.com billionaire who was too busy making money even to know what a D Type was until his billionaire mate bought one  and FOMO applied . I'd never see such cars anyway as riff raff like me (who don't wear scarlet corduroy trousers or affect Panama hats ) don't get invited to salons prive or concours d' elegance at Pebble Beach or (spare me ) The Honourable Artillery Company 

 

I had never seen a GTO on track, nor a Bizzarini , nor Corvette Grand Sport ,nor a Lotus  25,nor a Ferrari 512M  nor even a BMW 1800Ti in period ,  and I'd only seen two Cobras . The fact that I can watch such cars , replicas or not, being driven and raced hard at  myriad historic events now might get Jenks spinning in his grave, but I like to think that some less jaundiced figures from the past  would  enjoy the  spectacle as much as I do . It may not be real, but you cannot recreate the past- and in many respects I am delighted we can't .    



#353 PCC

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 18:05

I liked DSJ's idea that the many recreations and continuations should simply be called "fakes."

Replicas are just that - replicas. They're only 'fakes' if they're trying to fool people into thinking they're originals.



#354 Doug Nye

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 18:13

Yes....

 

Indeed...

 

:cool:

 

DCN

 

PS - Nearly 98-year-old Jenks might well - I suspect - present a contrarian argument to a TNF-type audience that, today, real car guys put their enthusiasm and skills into building and running competitive Historic-racing replicas - while in contrast Formula 1 has totally fallen victim to a bunch of profiteering hobbledy-hoys and computer nerds.  Next day - to an F1-type audience he might harangue them all for not having gone far enough...     Give him another day and before lunch he might energetically promote W-series female-only racing before a sceptical male audience - then in the afternoon excoriate it before strident feminists.     There might be a pattern emerging here...    


Edited by Doug Nye, 29 November 2018 - 18:24.


#355 D-Type

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 18:56

Yes....

 

Indeed...

 

:cool:

 

DCN

 

PS - Nearly 98-year-old Jenks might well - I suspect - present a contrarian argument to a TNF-type audience that, today, real car guys put their enthusiasm and skills into building and running competitive Historic-racing replicas - while in contrast Formula 1 has totally fallen victim to a bunch of profiteering hobbledy-hoys and computer nerds.  Next day - to an F1-type audience he might harangue them all for not having gone far enough...     Give him another day and before lunch he might energetically promote W-series female-only racing before a sceptical male audience - then in the afternoon excoriate it before strident feminists.     There might be a pattern emerging here...    

 

An interesting view from one who knew him as 'Jenks' and not just as 'DSJ'

On the other hand I think today is a good day to repeat one of my favourite quotes, first seen on here.  Namely:

"The 1955 Mille Miglia was won by Denis Jenkinson in a chauffeur-driven Mercedes-Benz"



#356 Roger Clark

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 23:46

Yes....

Indeed...

:cool:

DCN

PS - Nearly 98-year-old Jenks might well - I suspect - present a contrarian argument to a TNF-type audience that, today, real car guys put their enthusiasm and skills into building and running competitive Historic-racing replicas - while in contrast Formula 1 has totally fallen victim to a bunch of profiteering hobbledy-hoys and computer nerds. Next day - to an F1-type audience he might harangue them all for not having gone far enough... Give him another day and before lunch he might energetically promote W-series female-only racing before a sceptical male audience - then in the afternoon excoriate it before strident feminists. There might be a pattern emerging here...

Brilliant! Yet he was, in his writings at least, always consistent about who could drive, what was a serious racing car, and what was a proper racing circuit.

I exclude from that his list in Motor Sport of the top 10 drivers with no mention of Fangio. I’m sure that was a desire to be controversial!

#357 Alan Baker

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 10:42

I've recently been re-reading some Motor Sports of the fifties and early sixties and it almost hilarious (especially with the benefit of hindsight) to read DSJs sniffy attitude to "modern" developments. In his report of the 1954 Le Mans 24hrs he asserts that the leading Ferrari had better braking than the D-type Jaguar because Ferrari had fitted "grand prix brakes" to it, whereas it is fairly generally acknowledged that the Jaguar's discs were far superior to any drum brake at the time. Later in the decade his writing clearly give the impression of his disdain for rear engine GP cars, in his view a proper grand prix car had a front mounted multi cylinder engine and a de dion rear axle. In his description of the new BRM V-8's first appearance at Monza in 1961, he says that BRM had had to fit Lucas fuel injection as they could not get hold of Weber carburettors and nobody in Britain was making "proper racing carburettors". He could also be somewhat inconsistent on other matters, such as dismissing Spa-Francorchamps as having been turned into a "speed circuit" rather than a road circuit and then a couple of years later waxing lyrical about it being the finest road racing circuit in Europe. Of course, with Jenks you never knew how much of this was genuinely held belief and how much was a wind up!



#358 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 12:47

DSJ reported on motor sport for so long and observed a lot of change. When he stopped as an F1 writer, an awful lot of nonsense was already being reported and I like to imagine how he'd challenge some of the things written today.

 

I think he'd have a few words about meaningless terminology. I don't mean jargon or shortcut language; I'm thinking about undercuts and prime tyres, expressions which are designed to create an environment of "insiders" (fans who think they know more than they do) versus the rest, terms which only exist for F1. 

 

He'd probably laugh at descriptions of the dimensional accuracy of an F1 chassis. First, they make a buck out of wood and epoxy resin which is machine tooled within fractions of a millimetre. Typically, the buck is cut in half from front to back to create top and bottom bucks. Then more moulds are made and those fractions of a millimetre grow at every stage. Carbon fibre sheet is meticulously cut, then diligently inserted by hand and eye. Metal inserts are added by hand and eye. Top and bottom chassis halves gradually form until they can be put together on a metal jig -- diligently made by hand, eye and micrometer...

 

I doubt he'd pay much attention to "exclusive access to pit wall computer data". He understood that weather and track conditions mean that data from two cars or drivers is pretty meaningless unless the reporter has spent six months studying the particular characteristics of a car or driver. Even in a world of near-perfect manufacturing replication, some sets of tyres are better than others. The magical thing about F1 and other high performance motor sport is how a driver or rider can find speed unattainable by others.

 

DSJ's lifestyle makes me think he was unlikely to have paid much attention to "live timing" and "live performance" of F1 cars -- a huge screen with digital representation of how a car is behaving on 60 digital dials. A dash top display of oil pressure, tyre pressure but never driver pressure. When a mechanical failure occurs, we should presume that the event was happening on the 61st dial. (For the record, I am not a luddite; I just don't need to watch dials telling me that everything is normal; I'm more interested in dials which tell me about the unexpected.)



#359 kayemod

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 15:17

DSJ reported on motor sport for so long and observed a lot of change. When he stopped as an F1 writer, an awful lot of nonsense was already being reported and I like to imagine how he'd challenge some of the things written today.

 

I think he'd have a few words about meaningless terminology. I don't mean jargon or shortcut language; I'm thinking about undercuts and prime tyres, expressions which are designed to create an environment of "insiders" (fans who think they know more than they do) versus the rest, terms which only exist for F1. 

 

 

"Quali".



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#360 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 15:28

"Purple sector time".



#361 Sterzo

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 15:36

Loved DSJ's writing. He made you feel like you were there, at the race he was reporting, standing alongside a knowledgeable but slightly cantankerous friend who loved what he was watching, but wouldn't admit it.



#362 Allan Lupton

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 15:48

The other side of the coin might be to ask if any current scribe has any history of participation in motor sport at all, let alone experience as a champion sidecar "passenger" ore pacenoteman in the winning car of the Mille Miglia.

Is any of them on such good and familiar terms with most of the Grand Prix drivers he writes about?

Come to that is any of them an ordinary member of his local motor club as Jenks was of Hants & Berks MC?

 

As implied above, I would have enjoyed Jenks' take on the relative softness of soft, super-soft and hyper-soft or prime tyres



#363 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 15:52

I think that   the post from  'Sterzo' is  possibly true of D.S.J  and could well apply to lots of us old guys except in my case I am happy to admit that I no longer actually love it.



#364 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 16:10

The other side of the coin might be to ask if any current scribe has any history of participation in motor sport at all, let alone experience as a champion sidecar "passenger" ore pacenoteman in the winning car of the Mille Miglia.

 

I don't think many journalists meet those criteria. Ever.



#365 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 16:32

I don't think many journalists meet those criteria. Ever.

 

Paul Frère perhaps fitted that bill, winning Le Mans and a second place in his home Grand Prix driving a Ferrari should qualify him. But on the whole you are right, DSJ was a one off....................


Edited by SamoanAttorney, 30 November 2018 - 16:32.


#366 john aston

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 16:56

The other side of the coin might be to ask if any current scribe has any history of participation in motor sport at all, let alone experience as a champion sidecar "passenger" ore pacenoteman in the winning car of the Mille Miglia.

Is any of them on such good and familiar terms with most of the Grand Prix drivers he writes about?

Come to that is any of them an ordinary member of his local motor club as Jenks was of Hants & Berks MC?

 

As implied above, I would have enjoyed Jenks' take on the relative softness of soft, super-soft and hyper-soft or prime tyres

I can think of several - and behind the wheel as opposed to being in the chair . Two - Meaden and Harris are highly competent racers - and I an think of one TNF scribbler  who has not only raced for fun but has a long history of GP reportage as well as of FF1600 chassis... Further back the excellent Roger Bell drove as well as he wrote - and that is praise indeed . I do not think we remember DSJ for his insight , nor his prose , but because he was an enthusiast's enthusiast and , like many of us , talked utter bollocks sometimes - but very entertainingly .



#367 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 17:12

Paul Frère perhaps fitted that bill, winning Le Mans and a second place in his home Grand Prix driving a Ferrari should qualify him. 

I have read enough Frere to understand that he was born at the wrong time, not enough money, but always around at the right time for the next deal.



#368 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 17:27

I can think of several - and behind the wheel as opposed to being in the chair . Two - Meaden and Harris are highly competent racers - and I an think of one TNF scribbler  who has not only raced for fun but has a long history of GP reportage as well as of FF1600 chassis... Further back the excellent Roger Bell drove as well as he wrote - and that is praise indeed . I do not think we remember DSJ for his insight , nor his prose , but because he was an enthusiast's enthusiast and , like many of us , talked utter bollocks sometimes - but very entertainingly .

Meaden is a better than average driver, and has enough charm to win a seat.

 

Harris is the child who memorised the top speeds of all cars when he was six years old, and he'll let you know about it.



#369 john aston

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 18:08

And pilots a T70 with the verve I saw him display in a Seven years ago . And so what if he's an anorak?  MeToo



#370 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 18:30

And pilots a T70 with the verve I saw him display in a Seven years ago . And so what if he's an anorak?  MeToo

I don't know whether you mean Meaden or Harris, John. 



#371 Doug Nye

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 22:22

Our little friend always derided live TV coverage and could never accept that the TV viewer actually saw far more of an event overall than any trackside observer possibly could.  

 

When it comes to racing writers who have actually competed, there have really been precious few who were ever good enough to compete at significant International level, which to my mind is the only one that counts.

 

Tommy Wisdom was one, 'Sammy' Davis another, Gordon Wilkins a third, and Denise McLuggage a fourth.  But they all found entry to those levels when one's social standing and private means could make the difference, and were Wisdom and dear old Gordon really "racing writers"?  Motoring journalists, certainly, but that's the dull end of our rough trade...  In contrast, my friend Tony Dron has been both a fine and diligent racing writer and a potentially top-class International-standard racing driver.

 

Otherwise the one writer-driver who really springs to mind is Paul Frere - who won at both Le Mans and in Formula 1 if you count the 1960 South African GP as a worthwhile F1 race.  At one Motor Show test day in France he showed me the way around the Montlhery road circuit - and I promise you that was a humbling experience.  After the first two significant corners he'd simply vanished from my sight. But when it came to writing - for my taste, sadly - Paul was a master in making such unique experiences as driving a Porsche 908/3 or a 917 most dreadfully, deadly, boring...

 

Since Jenks didn't actually drive at that level - or ride his motor-cycle or sidecar combination at that level - he doesn't qualify.  But as an acutely perceptive and analytical observer - he became blessed by his experience of watching two genuinely world-class standard-setters at work from a vantage point right alongside each of them - Eric Oliver and Stirling Moss.

 

There have have been more significant racing-writers dotted through sporting history - like Charles Faroux in France or Giovanni Canestrini in Italy, or W.F.Bradley,  each of whom shone as promoters/entrepreneurs/Mr Fixits...  But that's a rather different role.

 

I always rate Harry Mundy very highly - a good and readable technical editor for 'The Autocar' and with his practical (and actual) engineering experience at ERA and BRM, followed by his collaboration with Wally Hassan at Coventry Climax and Jaguar, he was one who really could carve memorable notches on his drawing board - up to and including his twin-cam cylinder head for Colin Chapman's Lotus Ford engines.

 

Harry's significant career was in stark contrast to his far more purely academic counterpart, Laurence Pomeroy, over at 'The Motor'.  Perhaps curiously - given Harry's celebratedly prickly nature - I believe the two of them actually got on very well together.  Certainly, both really enjoyed a bottle of fine wine (and stronger)...

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 30 November 2018 - 23:20.


#372 john aston

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:42

I don't know whether you mean Meaden or Harris, John. 

Harris- but Meaden is also handy in a T70 

 

And may I add the name of Sam Posey to the list of writer racers? He was not quite from the top drawer of drivers but good enough to race at International level for many years. I loved his book,  'Where the Writer meets the Road' , an anthology of his work .  Some very finely observed prose and very , very stylish .  


Edited by john aston, 01 December 2018 - 07:46.


#373 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 08:31

Indeed.  Point taken...

 

DCN



#374 bradbury west

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 08:45

DCN, on the subject of Tony Dron, a man whose skills I have admired for decades - one of the safest and quickest pair of hands in serious historic race cars- I was delighted to see that he was recently given a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Historic Motoring Awards for his work.
Roger Lund

Edit. Some of us recall Jenks' regular practice of hitching a ride with top drivers in appropriate cars on circuits to gain first hand experience of their skill, and he was always very keen on trying quick stuff like the occasional dragster and bike motor bikes etc, so he knew that of which he spoke.

Edited by bradbury west, 01 December 2018 - 08:50.


#375 Stephen W

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:21

Our little friend always derided live TV coverage and could never accept that the TV viewer actually saw far more of an event overall than any trackside observer possibly could.  

 

 

To a certain extent I agree with DSJ. As a TV viewer you get very little chance of observing battles down the field as the TV Director plays follow the leaders. This was made even more of a problem when one of the top four was "a local". Once I had a video recorder I would record the "live TV transmissions" to watch usually on Monday evening. It was obvious to me that the viewer sat at home saw a different race to the one I did at the trackside.  



#376 Sterzo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 14:01

Innes Ireland is surely the most accomplished driver who went on to write professionally. I suspect there are several from the motor cycling world too, Matt Oxley being an obvious one.



#377 john aston

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 17:30

in 2016 I interviewed a well known racer who knew Jenks well and was very fond of him . Just looked up what was said ' Bloody awful driver , all over the place, terrible tailgater '.  But said with a smile from my then near octogenerian interviewee - who was still racing .



#378 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 20:27

:lol:  :up:  :up:



#379 opplock

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 20:40

Loved DSJ's writing. He made you feel like you were there, at the race he was reporting, standing alongside a knowledgeable but slightly cantankerous friend who loved what he was watching, but wouldn't admit it.

 

I can still quote sections of DSJ's report on 1968 Monaco GP. As you say he made it seem as though you were standing next to him and not, in my case, reading his report (at least 20 times) a year later and 12,000 miles away. He conjured up visions of a world far away that to a 13 year old seemed infinitely more exciting than that I inhabited.     

 

I suspect he'd be persona non grata in todays F1. Imagine someone writing only about what he'd witnessed instead of regurgitating PR material. No pages of "blah blah" said Wolff, "blah blah" said Bottas, "blah blah" said Vettel in a DSJ report. OK, teams didn't employ armies of PR types in his day but I imagine he'd have found alternative uses for the paper they generated.

 

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall on the occasion (early 80s?) that a driver of moderate ability asked DSJ to mention that he'd scored a point in that day's GP. From memory his reply was reported to be something like - What are you going to do with it? Frame it and hang it on the wall?   



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#380 Gary Davies

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 13:38

Help! This is a bit of peripheral DSJ-ness. 

 

I have it in my head that somewhere, sometime, I read - from DSJ - a report that Ecclestone had proposed a Grand Prix - at Paul Ricard I think - which would emphatically exclude the hoi polloi. Sort of "No crowding 'cos there's no crowd."

 

I have all my Motor Sports from 1962 and despite scouring Continental Notes and Letter from Europe, I'm blessed if I can find any such reference.

 

My wife thinks I'm loopy and she's undoubtedly a fine woman. Can any TNF-ers confirm my sanity or otherwise?



#381 opplock

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 14:59

I'm sure meetings were held at Paul Ricard without spectators after Bernie bought it. Not a GP however. 

 

Unfortunately I'm one of those who gave him the idea. Bernie emerged from the Hotel de Paris early on Thursday morning of 1984 Monaco GP weekend and was subjected to barracking by those of us in the Casino Square grandstand. The only chant I remember was  "How many TV cameras can you can get in this grandstand?" 



#382 Stephen W

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:11

I thought that the "quote" was part of an article that concerned TV coverage where either the journalist or Ecclestone suggested that it would be possible to run an event at Paul Ricard without spectators. It may even have been speculation on the journalist's part that that might be what Bernie would prefer.



#383 group7

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:48

One of my favourite DSJ stories was brought up by DCN in the the other thread "Denis Jenkinson" from March 23rd. 2005,  it was to do with a F1 launch and Setright was there attired in a outlandish getup, and Jenks comment on Setright's monocle  :lol:

I couldn't figure out how to  copy and paste it here, perhaps Doug or some one else could do so.



#384 john aston

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 05:48

I wonder if history records Long John Kickstart's views on Jenks' sartorial elegance? 



#385 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:02

Here’s the LJKS anecdote mentioned by Group7:

Re LJK Setright - I shouldn't really share this story, but it happened. During one of his foppish (insecure?) phases LJKS arrived at a new F1 car launch clad in what appeared to be pale cream suede jodhpurs, riding boots and a matching pale cream suede jacket, handlebar moustache tips waxed, monocle screwed into eye. DSJ spied him - giggled "Look at that prat" and pushed through the crowd to greet him. I didn't catch what his opening line was, but the great intellect was plainly not too impressed by the bearded little gnome's greeting. Whereupon ( hand on heart this is true ), Jenks said to the tall dandy, confidentially, - "Do you know Leonard, if you had another lens up your arse you'd make a damn fine telescope".

Sorry... :blush:

DCN



#386 group7

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 16:06

Thanks Tim, and also DCN , that's the one   :up:   



#387 AAGR

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 22:24

And yet it's amazing how many other people still think that Setright was a great writer. I suppose they are right, just as long as 'writer' is spelt 'p o s e u r ...'

 

AAGR



#388 RogerFrench

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 17:38

Come now, there's room for all sorts. I have Setright's "The Grand Prix car 1954 to 1966" on my bookshelves alongside Jenks, Nye, Ludvigsen and many others. His style is reflective of an age and attitudes that you might find in a P.G. Wodehouse novel. I find it amusing, I like the odd Latin interjections and so on. My father used similar Setright-like devices in his writings about special-building, many thought them humorous, others irritating.

#389 Doug Nye

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 19:37

Jenks had no tolerance whatsoever for what he referred to as 'side' or 'swank'.  He felt that Mr Setright displayed both - it never occurred to him that, to the literary-minded, his own use of language was severely restricted - while in sharp contrast LJKS's was often florid to the extreme.  The latter was condemned thereby as "a show-off".  Worse, he seemed to be intent upon out-classicising Laurence Pomeroy who had first deployed such high-flown prose in writing about greasy, smelly, boring old motor cars...  For many of us, Graham (AAGR) above is absolutely right.

 

And 'Car' magazine for whom Leonard wrote was simply hated by the old guard at 'Motor Sport'; Jenks, The Bod, and the owner, Old Man Tee... As a junior enthusiast, I simply spectated - but Jenks often made me laugh, The Bod seldom did so, and Mr Tee - well - I found nothing even faintly amusing about Mr Tee.   :cool:

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 11 December 2018 - 22:37.


#390 RogerFrench

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 20:22

No, I don't think Setright would make me laugh, and you're right, Jenks could. Maybe we need a topic on amusing writers, so as not to derail this one?

#391 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 20:44

I would remind you that the last time we discussed LJKS it drew the ire of his daughter ...



#392 john aston

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:37

And yet it's amazing how many other people still think that Setright was a great writer. I suppose they are right, just as long as 'writer' is spelt 'p o s e u r ...'

 

AAGR

 It is an awful indictment to call somebody a poseur simply because he had the education to deploy the language he had learned . . I adored Setright - so what if he threw in the odd quotation? Are only writers who are accessible to the lowest common denominator acceptable in our sport ? Setright wrote exquisitely , and used imagery and metaphors which the likes of Bill Boddy couldn't have  created in a lifetime . If Boddy and his coterie enjoyed taking the p*** out of LJKS it say far more about them than it does him I'd suggest - and for Jenks to poke fun at Setright's sartorial style is a little rich , for reasons too obvious to be spelled out.

 

Setright may have been sui generis  but writing about the sport should be as broad a church as the sport itself.

 

But I can see why CAR  was loathed by Bill Boddy in its heyday  - unlike Motor Sport of that era it was iconoclastic, immensely stylish. beautifully designed and  illustrated and had a wealth of great writers .   Most importantly of all, it picked up the Sixties ' zeitgeist - whilst Bil Boddy was still enthusing about the' Wartime Diaries of an RFC Officer'- all 298 instalments of them . or so it felt.



#393 Nick Savage

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 11:38

Oh ! There were at least 491 chapters of 'RFC Officer's Dreary Diaries' , finally petering out in 1981 (don't know when they started, 1956 or 1856 probably). That was the year I gave up buying MS after 20 years devoted readership, and "RFC" was one of the reasons. In the early Sixties, it was just the thing for me, an omnivorous reader of anything to do with the sport. It was without competition (I could not afford both Autosport and MS) and had a beguiling mix -  restoration and discovery stories , White Elephants, Continental Notes (DSJ description of the Targa Florio sticks in the mind) and so on. Later on I was less tolerant of the lousy design, ever decreasing font-sizes, continued on p94 and etc. By then I was buying CAR (starting with 'Small Car' and other earlier iterations). John A is right -  great page design, always experimenting, very interesting and unusual writers. CAR showed how far MS has slipped behind. LJKS felt fresh, though some of his engineering judgements were as downright eccentric as DSJ's anti-safety crusades were quixotic.

Also  -  the article "Spectators  -  are they necessary ?" by DSJ is in the Jan 1981 Motor Sport.

Nick

 It is an awful indictment to call somebody a poseur simply because he had the education to deploy the language he had learned . . I adored Setright - so what if he threw in the odd quotation? Are only writers who are accessible to the lowest common denominator acceptable in our sport ? Setright wrote exquisitely , and used imagery and metaphors which the likes of Bill Boddy couldn't have  created in a lifetime . If Boddy and his coterie enjoyed taking the p*** out of LJKS it say far more about them than it does him I'd suggest - and for Jenks to poke fun at Setright's sartorial style is a little rich , for reasons too obvious to be spelled out.

 

Setright may have been sui generis  but writing about the sport should be as broad a church as the sport itself.

 

But I can see why CAR  was loathed by Bill Boddy in its heyday  - unlike Motor Sport of that era it was iconoclastic, immensely stylish. beautifully designed and  illustrated and had a wealth of great writers .   Most importantly of all, it picked up the Sixties ' zeitgeist - whilst Bil Boddy was still enthusing about the' Wartime Diaries of an RFC Officer'- all 298 instalments of them . or so it felt.



#394 Roger Clark

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 15:21

Am I alone in enjoying Motor Sport and Car, Boddy, Jenkinson, Setright, Nichols, Blain and Fraser, not to mention Nye, Robson, Pomeroy and Mundy while (hopefully) recognising the strengths and weaknesses of all of them?

#395 Kpy

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 15:36

Am I alone in enjoying Motor Sport and Car, Boddy, Jenkinson, Setright, Nichols, Blain and Fraser, not to mention Nye, Robson, Pomeroy and Mundy while (hopefully) recognising the strengths and weaknesses of all of them?

You're not alone Roger. I've enjoyed them all, whilst putting up with the weaknesses.



#396 bradbury west

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 19:02

It may be worth noting that yesterday marked 98 years since our little hero was born.

I often think that Jenks was a bit like the Revival. You either get it or you do not.
I have read very little LJKS, but some years ago he did, IMHO, a series of excellent iconoclastic, ( - just for John Aston ) articles in one of the comics debunking the perceived myths of Ferrari, Bugatti and Chapman, et al, which I have kept for future references. But then, that all depends if you are disposed to believe those perceived myths in the first place. As in everything, it is all subjective.

I always understood the secret of good writing was the ability to have your reader understand clearly the topic about which you wrote. That is why Jenks was always regarded as the enthusiast's enthusiastic pal who was telling you about what had happened, helping you to feel that you had been there. That is why his Mille Miglia report has assumed legendary status and perhaps why the description of the final run into Brescia was so pertinent and well received when Canon Webber read it at his funeral. A first hand narrative embodying everything he represented.

We have discussed over the years here the vagaries of Motor Sport over the years as a magazine, to the point of tedium, I am sure. I remain bemused by how many people seem to have read it for so long whilst finding it not to their taste. It was of its time, in its time, and was the best we had readily. I speak as one who first read it in January 1960, and who has renewed for a further 2 years . As with the others to which I subscribe currently, I travel more in hope than expectation these days. The world has changed.

As an aside, as a youth and in later years, I found the peripheral Bod articles, Cars I have Owned, VEV etc., introduced me gently but clearly to a very broad church of knowledge about a whole range of motoring topics. But again, that is all very subjective.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 12 December 2018 - 20:48.


#397 RogerFrench

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 19:17

Am I alone in enjoying Motor Sport and Car, Boddy, Jenkinson, Setright, Nichols, Blain and Fraser, not to mention Nye, Robson, Pomeroy and Mundy while (hopefully) recognising the strengths and weaknesses of all of them?


No, you are not!

#398 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 20:53

Jenks would simply have loved to follow this thread.

 

I have little doubt he would have sided with John and Nick above. 

 

:cool:

 

DCN



#399 ridgemount2008

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 17:39

Jenks used to write a piece for the BRDC Bulletin for years. When I was Secretary I instigated the publishing of a book containing every one. I am not sure if it is available but if

you can find one it is a very good read.



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#400 D-Type

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 18:30

Jenks used to write a piece for the BRDC Bulletin for years. When I was Secretary I instigated the publishing of a book containing every one. I am not sure if it is available but if

you can find one it is a very good read.

That will be:  Jenks - A passion for motor sport.  Motor Racing Publications Ltd 1997.  ISBN 1-899870-22-9 ?  Available secondhand for £30-£40


Edited by D-Type, Yesterday, 14:44.