295 replies to this topic

[cheesy poofs]

I always wondered what would have happened if James had not voiced his sentiment so loudly on this accident ? Would any of the other drivers involved have said anything ?

[FLB]

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
Nigel Roebuck wrote a piece on Riccardo Patrese in the July issue of Motorsport. This is a part of that article:

Well, I can pretty well imagine why Patrese was put on the black list of some of the drivers. Monza 1978 had a context:

1. The Arrows fiasco. Arrows was formed by some dissenting elements of Shadow, to the point that their first was enventually judged illegal because it was a clear copy of the DN9. Not exactly the best way to enter F1, isn't it?

2. Kyalami. Riccardo Patrese would have won that race hadn't it been for an engine problem. He was a young hot shoe and it was thought he could make a lot of people look bad. He was part of a new breed (Villeneuve, Tambay, Arnoux, Rosberg, Pironi, etc.) coming the shove the old generation out (Lauda, Fittipaldi, Hunt, Peterson, Reutemann, etc.). He was also someone who didn't play the political game. He had an attitude that some felt needed correcting. Remember what Andretti told Rosberg at Kyalami ("Oh, by the way, see that you learn the ropes? Do it like we all do", paraphrased from Roebuck's Grand-Prix Greats, 1985, PSL).

3. Sweden. At the Swedish GP, Patrese and Peterson had one helluva fight. Patrese came on top, on Ronnie's home turf. Peterson publicly said Patrese tried to kill him (mind you, he had said the same thing about Gilles Villeneuve earlier in the season).


If you take all of it into consideration, there weren't that many reasons for the Old Guard to LIKE Patrese...

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by FLB
1. The Arrows fiasco. 2. Kyalami. 3. Sweden.
If you take all of it into consideration, there weren't that many reasons for the Old Guard to LIKE Patrese...

Riccardo Patrese had made a very favourable impression on James Hunt in South Africa. Hunt described his performance as "extremely impressive" which suggests there was no problem between the newcomer and the established stars at that point.

The GPDA sought to ban Patrese from Watkins Glen, not for events at Monza alone, but (in Patrese's own words) "because they didn't like my attitude over the season, but by timing it when they did, it looked as if they were punishing me for the Monza accident." In an article called Dr Jekyll or Mr Hyde (Autosport 28-9-78) Chris Hockley listed the the 'incidents' Patrese had been involved in up to Monza to examine if the ban was justified. His list was as follows:

Brazil: Banged wheels with Watson. Two pit stops. Finished 10th.

South Africa: Crashed in practice. Walked down pit lane in tears after blowing up while leading by a mile in the race.

Long Beach: Sixth. Clipped a wall, but otherwise steady drive.

Monaco: Two crashes in practice. Said one was brake problem, other driver error. Tenacious drive to sixth after race-long duel with Pironi.

Belgium: Start line shunt with Hunt, who was pitched into the wall and retirement. Lying fourth when rear suspension broke.

Spain: Retired when fifth with engine seized. Said he was expecting it as gauges had been in the red for some time.

Sweden: Watson spun into retirement - he said Patrese missed a gear in front of him and he had a 'problem' trying to overtake him. Tangled with Jones, who spun into the sand at the same place as Watson. Finished second a nosecone ahead of Peterson, who accused him of weaving.

France: Fine drive to eighth in an unbalanced car.

Britain: Lying second when rear tyre punctured. Drove so quickly back to the pits that his rear suspension was wrecked.

Germany: Spun during race and several drivers said they had problems getting past him. Finished ninth.

Austria: First time out in new A1 car. Left road in downpour that ended 'first' race. In second race Watson stalled on the line and in the confusion Patrese tangled with Ertl and spun out of race.

Holland: Collided with Pironi as the Tyrrell hurtled off the road on the first lap.


If those are the reasons the GPDA were seeking to ban him then it is hardly a convincing case.

According to Autocourse he "tangled" with Watson on lap three in Brazil. In Belgium the startline incident was casued by Reutemann who missed a gear, Scheckter then hit the back of Lauda's Brabham and Patrese hit Hunt. In Sweden the criticism was probably justified. Patrese missed a gear and Watson spun in avoidance. Later in the race the Arrows hit the back of Jones's Williams which then went off, and towards the end of the race Patrese employed what Peterson later described as F3 tactics to hold on to 2nd place. Given that he was heading for his team's best finishing position perhaps his actions were understandable. In Austria Watson stalled on the grid - most found a way through but Patrese and Ertl did not. Finally, in Holland Pironi was hit from behind by Stuck and spun in front of Patrese who could not avoid him.

The impression, given by some, of Patrese as some kind of crazy hooligan does not stand up to examination. He was young, fast and confident - nothing wrong with that. J-P Montoya is receiving much praise for displaying the same attitude. Perhaps where he suffered was the way he seems to have presented himself to journalists and his fellow drivers. At a time when the printed word was far more influential than television interviews his apparent arrogance did not gain him favourable press.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Buford
On the tape Peterson was interviewed before the race. He discussed the accident he had from a very high speed in practice when he lost the brakes. He was in the 78 because he had crashed is primary car.

This brings back a few unpleasant memories. IIRC in Italy Peterson has basically handed his Dutch GP car. He was expected to practice and qualify (and possibly race) with his Dutch Grand Prix race engine. Back then only a few of the really top-funded teams did motor changes between qualifing and the race - but most everyone changed engines between Grand Prixs. The only work that had been done was that his rear brake-pads (which failed during that later stages in Holland) were replaced. Between his Dutch Grand Prix race engine exploding (and soaking his clutch with motor oil), being sent out with some oddly "staggered" Tyre Preasures, and his rear brake pads falling off the car (inadvertantly not installed properly ?) causing his brake pedal to sink to the floor, its no wonder that he only qualified 5th with the 79.

A former three time winner at Monza, Peterson was heavily favoured to do well.

He never even bothered to setup the 78 for the race. The 79's brake failure was on a race day warmup practice session, and the whole front structure was bent upwards - not fixable in time for the race. Given all this, I dont think Peterson was really tring to do anything more than bring the 78 home in a top 6 position, hence his rather poor start.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
I always wondered what would have happened if James had not voiced his sentiment so loudly on this accident ? Would any of the other drivers involved have said anything ?

I think its now pretty much universally accepted that (right or wrong) Hunt blamed himself very deeply for Ronnie's death, and that his blaming and insulting Patese's driving (which continued until Hunt's death in the early '90ies), was a mechanism for attempting to transfer some of this guilt. As Hunt was very much respected, his anti-Patese sentiments were initially accepted without question.

While most of the other drivers (including Peterson) had encountered issues with Patese at one point or another in the '78 season, I personally feel that his questionable passing manouver at Monza while rather risky, was perhaps not as far out of line as Bufford seems to suggest.

[AlesiUK]

I think Patrese move was a fair one,it was hard racing but fair,i know we like to say how much better driving standards were in those days,and to an extent they were,but they still raced hard,there is nothing unfair in moving over once you are passed an opponent.

One thing i would like to know,does the whole accident happen before the braking for the 1st turn starts?from what i can see it does.If ricardo had moved infront of james and then imediately started braking than i could understand james swerving left.but from the footage i have seen it appears Patrese is still on the gas as he moves over so there was no need for James to move as he did.

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by AlesiUK
One thing i would like to know,does the whole accident happen before the braking for the 1st turn starts?

Yes it does. The accident begins at the 250 / 300 metre mark. Peterson's car finally comes to a stop at the 200 metre mark.

Originally posted by...me
The first four drivers on the grid get a clean start. Nobody seems to get an advantage over any of the others. Peterson - who starts fifth - has a very poor start. He moves over to his left to fend off Watson while Scheckter - who sits behind the Irishman on the grid - goes to Peterson's right. Scheckter moves ahead of both Peterson and Laffite while behind them Patrese goes around Hunt who is trying to get by the slow starting Lotus - which has come back to the middle of the race track- trying to fend off others behind him. As the field approches the first turn bottleneck, Patrese ( over the line ) moves to his left to tuck in behind the Wolf. Hunt sees the Arrows and turns sharply into the Lotus of Peterson. The left front wheel of the McLaren hits the right rear wheel of the Lotus, sending him off infront of the McLaren and straight into the fast approching gardrail. Peterson's car explodes upon impact and bounces back into the path of the on-coming field.

If you look at the above pitures. Where is Reutemann ? As I said - Could he have been to Ronnie's left - causing him to move slightly into Hunt's path ??

The puzzle is shaping up...

Reutemann is slighlty ahead of the Lotus when Hunt makes contact with Ronnie. I always thought Hunt clipped the rear wheel of the Lotus with his rifgt front wheel...? What really happens is; the left rear wheel of the McLaren actually goes over the right front wheel of the Lotus and veers sharply into the path of Reutemann while the Lotus spins towards the barrier...

[ensign14]

Regardless of the causes of the accident, you still should not die from a broken leg. Were the Monza facilities really poor or was it just circumstance?

[mikedeering]

Ronnie's legs and ankles were fractured very badly in hundreds of places - it wasn't the matter of just a clean break!

As it was Monza, the inital scenes were very chaotic, with lots of people running about where they shouldn't. The medical team were slow in reaching Ronnie at trackside as a result of all the melee - I believe Prof Sid Watkins was not ablt to get to Peterson at the trackl and had to go direct to the medical center. Once Ronnie was moved there, he was able to get attention and transfered to the local Niguardia Hospital. Watkins had to drive to the hospital, and followed Andretti's Rolls Royce in a Fiat hire car!

All this time he was conscious and aware of his surroundings, according to Prof Watkins. Once at Niguardia he was operated on and at midnight on Sunday he appeared stable - Chapman, Watkins and Andretti left for their hotels and all was assumed to be OK - Ronnie was obviously badly injured but not life threatened. Between midnight and 4am however his condition worsened greatly - blood clots built up in his legs, lungs and brain, and it was from this that he died. During all this, a call was made to Barbro, Peterson's wife in Monaco by an unidentified man. He informed Barbro that the Italian doctors were killing her husband! No one knows who placed the call, but Prof Watkins belives it was a hoaxer who had got in the hospital.

All these details are in "Life at the Limit" by Prof Watkins. He wasn't critical of the meidcal attention Ronnie received - I think, unfortunately, it was one of those things....

All the same, it was the incidents at Monza 1978 that led to the introduction of a medical car following the field around on the opening lap of each GP to ensure a fast arrival at any accident - prior to that no such facility existed.

[Mickey]

Clay Regazzoni was interviewed on an Italian radio station about F1 safety on the day after volunteer fireman Ghislimberti died at the 2000 GP at Monza.

Clay somehow blamed Prof Watkins for the tragedy, saying something like he's an old drunk who cares little about improving safety. To illustrate his point, he mentioned the death of Ronnie.

He said that Prof Watkins got to attend to Ronnie extremely late because he was getting drunk at a bar at the track.

What is people's opinion on this?

It sounds like personal hatred from Clay to me...

[mikedeering]

Well, Watkins account doesn't mention that...but then it hardly would eh!

Back in 1978, Watkins was only just getting invovled in F1 - I think his first race was Sweden that year. He was more an advisor, unlike in later years where his role was formalized and he was THE medical head in F1. He simply didn't have the authority back in 1978 that he has now - so to blame him in any way for Ronnie's death is wrong IMHO - he was not involved in Ronnie's treatment. He didn't even accompany Ronnie in the helicopter to the hospital!

He was not able to get to Ronnie at trackside as the police forced him back, so it is not correct to blame him. Anyway, Ronnie did not die at the track - he was conscious and able to talk, so I don't feel a lack of medical attention at the scene of the crash was to blame for his death. That occurred many hours later as a result of complications that set in after being operated on. Watkins himself was only an observer at the operation - and he joined it late on as well according to his account.

The comments from Clay left me wondering - he was paralyzed from the waist down at Long Beach in 1980. Was Watkins involved in his treatment then - I suspect he was as his role in medical affairs grew after Monza 1978. Is Clay resentful of Watkins actions after his own accident?

I was certainly of the view that all other F1 drivers from the 1980s onwards were full of nothing but praise for Sid Watkins and his work on improving safety. I also understood that Sid was the one guy who Bernie Ecclestone would listen to at all times - so he is obviously held in high regard.

[Viss1]

Originally posted by ensign14
Regardless of the causes of the accident, you still should not die from a broken leg. Were the Monza facilities really poor or was it just circumstance?

Someone mentioned in the previous thread that the medical technology available in 1978 was probably not able to track or predict blood clots of that type.

[Rediscoveryx]

Originally posted by Viss1

Someone mentioned in the previous thread that the medical technology available in 1978 was probably not able to track or predict blood clots of that type.

That's true. If that accident had happened today, Peterson would have had very good chances of survival. There was a Swedish program on this incident a few years ago, and one doctor estimated that Ronnies chances of survival if the accident had happened today would have been close to 100%.

[Lutz G]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs

The puzzle is shaping up...

Reutemann is slighlty ahead of the Lotus when Hunt makes contact with Ronnie. I always thought Hunt clipped the rear wheel of the Lotus with his rifgt front wheel...? What really happens is; the left rear wheel of the McLaren actually goes over the right front wheel of the Lotus and veers sharply into the path of Reutemann while the Lotus spins towards the barrier...

Yes, I always thought "isn't Hunt's Mclaren a little bit up in the air after contact - like as jumping over a wheel?" I think it happened just exactly how you described it. BTW: Can you see it that way on the footage you got? Mine has some poor quality - so it's very difficult to see details.

@Viss1

"Someone mentioned in the previous thread that the medical technology available in 1978 was probably not able to track or predict blood clots of that type."

Here's a what a doc (?) posted some years ago at rasf1 about how they handled it at the hospital:

"I have to re-do the medical infor here,although I covered it in some
(gory?) detail just a couple of weeks back.RP died from surgical comp-
locations known as fatty embolism,ie fat globules from the broken bone
marrow forming arterial "clots" and shutting down the critical blood
supply to the kidneys,lungs and heart (as well as the brain).This is
a well-known (and still feared) complication to all injury involving
fracture of the major bone structures of the body.The whole case was
probably handled less than optimally by the hospital,but without access
to hospital records it's difficult to know.And,of course,we are all
given the gift of hindsight nowadays....
Doc"

Well, "less than optimally". Hans "Striezel" Stuck comes to my mind. He was in that hospital too after the accident (a tire hit him) and he was laying for a short time right to Ronnie. His only thought was "I must get out of here" - he had no trust in this particular hospital


@Mickey

"Clay somehow blamed Prof Watkins for the tragedy, saying something like he's an old drunk who cares little about improving safety. To illustrate his point, he mentioned the death of Ronnie."

Quote from "Motorsport Aktuell" (13.9.78)

"After the accident Clay Regazzoni and Bernie Ecclestone had some words. After Peterson was out of the car there were no doctors around. Dr.Raffael Grajales-Robles (Fittipaldis "own" doc) was not allowed (by Bernie) to come to the races anymore. So Ecclestone brought his doc (Watkins). Watkins was not as fast as he should (Quote Clay) at the accident. Clay was *very* furious about it.

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by Lutz G
Yes, I always thought "isn't Hunt's Mclaren a little bit up in the air after contact - like as jumping over a wheel?" I think it happened just exactly how you described it. BTW: Can you see it that way on the footage you got? Mine has some poor quality - so it's very difficult to see details.

Yes, the footage I have is very clear. You can clearly seen the McLaren go over the RF wheel of the Lotus. On video, the impact is misleading because you think it is the Lotus going up in the air...not Hunt's car ! Have a look at this Hunt / Andretti crash from 1977 ...almost an identical replay of what happened at Monza !

[Viss1]

There's an article in this month's (November) Car & Driver about Sid Watkins. Sid is very critical of the actions of the police and track officials at the accident scene, and the medical treatment afterwards. In particular, Watkins confirms that the police held back he and members of other teams, and that there was an unacceptable and indefensible delay in getting Peterson out of the car and on his way to the hospital.

What was most interesting, though, is his assessment of the attending doctor's actions. Watkins states that he disgreed with the decision to immediately set Peterson's shattered legs, stating that an operation of that magnitude can be too much for an already-traumatized patient to handle. In addition - and perhaps most contradictory to consensus here - is that even in 1977, failure to notice and treat a fatty embolism was a "stone age" mistake.

The article also contains other anecdotes and insight that may shed some light on other topics discussed in TNF. Highly recommended.

[AlesiUK]

Quote from "Motorsport Aktuell" (13.9.78)

"After the accident Clay Regazzoni and Bernie Ecclestone had some words. After Peterson was out of the car there were no doctors around. Dr.Raffael Grajales-Robles (Fittipaldis "own" doc) was not allowed (by Bernie) to come to the races anymore. So Ecclestone brought his doc (Watkins). Watkins was not as fast as he should (Quote Clay) at the accident. Clay was *very* furious about it. [/B]

this would appear to be incorrect,wakins clearly refer's to Grajales-robles being at the medical centre on that day.

he is also as the above article suggest;s very critical of the initial response to the accident,aparently the estimate's of how long it took to remove ronnie from the car ranged from 11 to 17 minutes.which even in those days was unaceptable.

[Buford]

aparently the estimate's of how long it took to remove ronnie from the car ranged from 11 to 17 minutes.which even in those days was unaceptable.
========================================================

There is something wrong there. The other drivers (Hunt and Depallier), and his own efforts in diving most of the way out of the car on his own through the missing front end, got him out in a minute or less.

[Leif Snellman]

I found a mpeg of the accident at http://tbk.fameflame...itted_Part9.php a few weeks ago. It is actually the first time I have taken a look at a film of the crash from that angle since September 10th 1978. There are a few comments I would like to give:

1) After Watson passes Ronnie on the left side Ronnie seems to move towards the middle of the track coming very close to Laffite. Now after Laffite passes Ronnie the latter seems to move right again, towards Hunt, just as shown on Doug Nyes picture. (Reutemann is coming up fast from behind but he hasn't anything to do with the situation).

From the film I get the feeling that Ronnie is trying to come into the slipstream of Laffite's faster car and/or line up behind him for the chicane. What do you think?

2) Scheckter is crossing the track sharply from left to right, and then immidiately back towards Laffite from the other side than Peterson. Again the camera angles can give a wrong impression but isn't Scheckter for a brief moment as far to the right as Patrese (or even further?) ? At the moment of Doug's picture Scheckter has already moved back across the line. Comments?

[LittleChris]

Ronnie died 24 years ago today. It seems like yesterday to me.

11th September is not a good day

[Lutz G]

I just had a look at the whole Monza '76 GP on tape. Fantastic battle for the lead btw - between Depailler in the 6wheeler and Peterson. 3 (!) Ferraris (Lauda, Regazzoni, Reutemann) on the grid - Lauda fastest Ferrari pilot in his first GP after the accident!

The start looks strange - just like some cars at the back of the grid were still moving when the light went to green. I wonder if it was the same starter who pressed the button two years later...

[cheesy poofs]

Yersterday, I came upon a the latest issue of a french magazine called "Automobile Historique " and in it, was the second part of a Ronnie Peterson profile which covered the years 76-78.
Unfortunately, I do not recall the name of the journo who wrote the article but, he writes that Peterson's accident was triggered by Hunt's car colliding with him...

I guess some people still think that this is the case, isn't it ?
Oh well...

[ffiloseta]

Just a thought in view of Tomas Enge's recent indictment. Could Hunt have overreacted from seeing Patrese appear from his right side because he was driving under the influence (as many have said before) ?

That would explain in part Hunt's excessive zeal in blaming Riccardo.

Maybe I'm wrong and all this antidoping thing is necessary after all...

[Schummy]

Peterson 11th september, Gonzalo Rguez 11th september, and then 2001... actually sept 11th looks doomed

[ffiloseta]

Originally posted by Schummy
Peterson 11th september, Gonzalo Rguez 11th september, and then 2001... actually sept 11th looks doomed

[AlesiUK]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Yersterday, I came upon a the latest issue of a french magazine called "Automobile Historique " and in it, was the second part of a Ronnie Peterson profile which covered the years 76-78.
Unfortunately, I do not recall the name of the journo who wrote the article but, he writes that Peterson's accident was triggered by Hunt's car colliding with him...

I guess some people still think that this is the case, isn't it ?
Oh well...

actually i dont think there has ever been any doubt that the accident was caused by hunts car touching Ronnie's car.the debate is over the relative position of patrese's car to hunt's

[tifoso]

Originally posted by Mickey
Clay Regazzoni was interviewed on an Italian radio station about F1 safety on the day after volunteer fireman Ghislimberti died at the 2000 GP at Monza.

Clay somehow blamed Prof Watkins for the tragedy, saying something like he's an old drunk who cares little about improving safety. To illustrate his point, he mentioned the death of Ronnie.

He said that Prof Watkins got to attend to Ronnie extremely late because he was getting drunk at a bar at the track.

What is people's opinion on this?

It sounds like personal hatred from Clay to me...

I think his point about Peterson is bogus. 1978 was the first year Watkins acted as surgical advisor to F1. It wasn't until after Monza that Bernie agreed he needed to take a more active role. And over time and much resistence, his position changed to what it is today. Perhaps Regazzoni blames Watkins for not being on hand when he had his horrible accident at the 1980 US Grand Prix at Long Beach? Watkins says in his book Life at the Limit that he was unable to do so because of problems of radio communication and that race control never released him to go to the scene. He met Regazzoni at St. Mary's Hospital.

Here's what Professor Sid Watkins had to say about Peterson's accident and cause of death -- from the same book:

I set off to reach the scene of the accident but was prevented from getting further up the circuit by police and carabinieri who had formed up across the track. There seemed to be no way through and there was a good deal of shoving and pushing. Nigel Roebuck later preported in Autosprint that Peter Briggs of Team Surtees had been rewarded with a truncheon blow to the side of the neck when trying to find out about the condition of Vittorio Brambilla, his driver. One of the Italian officials who was with me tried to explain to the carabinieri that we should be allowed to go to the accident but to no avail. Just then James Hunt appeared walking back to the pits and told me that Peterson was injured and that an ambulance and doctor were with him. I turned and set off to the medical centre. I didn't know at the time that it was James who had, in fact, pulled Ronnie out of the car and out of the flames.

I arrived at the medical centre at the same time as the ambulance with Peterson. There was a huge crowd of tifosi outside the security rails of the centre and spilling over the access roads. Ronnie was quite conscious and rational, but both his legs were badly smashed, and he had some superficial burns on the shoulder and chest. We got several intravenous infusions up into the arm veins and his blood pressure was surprsingly normal. The medical team was busy splinting the leg fractures, many of which appeared to be technically compound. There were a lot of peple in the medical centre by now, including a person who was trying to take photographs through my legs. I rewarded him with a kick, following which he desisted but not before he attempted to get me by the short and curlies. The scene settled down, and Ronnie was talking sensibly. He was very anxious that I should come to the hospital as soon as I could and that I promised. In fact he said, "Please don't leve me, Prof."

We took him on the stretcher across the walkway to the waiting helicopter. There was a great murmur from the crowd as we crossed the walkway and a struggle when the tifosi tried to touch the injured Peterson, as if he were some holy relic. Dr. Rafael Grazales-Robles had come to the medical center to help, though he was nominally the personal doctor of Emerson Fittipaldi. I asked if he could go to Niguardia with Ronnie but he felt commited to stay, as I did, at the circuit for the restart. As the copter prepared to leave, Lotus owner and designer Colin Chapman turned up and I told him the score and to which hospital Ronnie had gone.
(...)
Towards the end of the race we heard from the hospital that a threat had developed to the blood supply of Ronnie's leg, and it was thought necessary to try to deal with this crisis by replacing the fractured bones and securing them in the correct position with internal or external pins and nails. By now Ronnie's manager Staffan Svenby was with him, and Staffan later told me that Ronnie had been rational, calm, and composed when the decision to operate was taken.
(...)
We finally got to the hospital...They told us that Ronnie was still in the operating theatre, where he had been for some hours. I was invited to change and join the operating team. All seemed to be going well, and the surgeons were working on the last fractures to be immobilized. I talked to the anaesthetist and Ronnie's vital signs were all fine. The blood transfusion with the correct blood group was in progress. Looking at the X-rays, I counted about 27 fractures in both legs and feet. The surgeon in charge indicated that he thought all was going to plan and that they would be finished shortly. Thereafter Ronnie was to be transferred to the ICU where Brambilla had already taken up residence.
(...)
I returned to the group [Andretti, Chapman, and Staffan] quite satisfied that everything was under control...About 4 in the morning Staffan woke me by telephone to say that the hospital had called to tell us that things had taken a bad turn for Ronnie...On arrival at ICU the neurosurgeon met me and said that Ronnie had developed breathing difficulties and was now being ventilated on a machine to try to keep up his blood oxygen levels. A chest X-ray showed that he had developed multiple emboli (small obstructions due to blood clots or fat globules) in his lungs. His kidney function had also declined, and urinary output had deterioriated. He was unconscious, and neurological examination showed that he had signs of severe brain damage. Using an ophthalmoscope and looking into his eyes I identified fat globules obstructing the small arteries in the retinas of both eyes. The outlook was pretty hopeless and the neurosurgeon agreed to my suggestion that we should get an electroencephalogram -- an electrical recording of brain function -- to get objective evidence of brain function in addition to our neurological observations.
(...)
A few days later I heard from the neurosurgeon at Niguardia that the autopsy confirmed fat embolism as the cause of Ronnie's deterioration and death; fat globules were evident in the lungs, kidneys and brain.

It seemed to me that the start and the response of the rescue team to the accident had been a shambles. Various estimates of the delay in getting Ronnie out of the car and the arrival of the ambulance range from 11 to 18 minutes. Subsequently, Bernie came to the conclusion that my authority had to be extended to supervising the rescue arrangement on the circut, instead of merely being the surgical advisor to Formula One.

Fat embolism syndrome (FES) follows long bone fractures. Even today many aspects of the fat embolism syndrome remain poorly understood and there is disagreement between physicians about treatment. Patients with fractures involving the middle and proximal parts of the femoral shaft are more likely to experience fat embolism. Age also seems to be a factor in the development of FES: young men with fractures are at increased risk. I found this from the New York University Medical Center web site:

Two events promote entrance of marrow contents into the circulation following a fracture: movement of unstable bone fragments and reaming of the medullary cavity during placement of an internal fixation device. Both of these cause distortion of and increased pressure within the medullary cavity, permitting entry of marrow fat into torn venous channels that remain open even in shock because they are attached to the surrounding bone.

The two events described above sound to an untrained person like what the surgeons were doing when they were immobilizing Peterson's fractures.

[Rediscoveryx]

Thanks for posting that Tifoso!

[David M. Kane]

I think it is grossly unfair to accuse a driver of Hunt's caliber of drugs
and drink in a race car. First I think you need some pretty outstanding evidence otherwise you are being extremely unfair. I knew the man and I have been around him at several USGP at Watkins Glen and he was stone sober. What is your source on this?

[ffiloseta]

I have read elsewhere -and many people have referred to- that Gerald Donaldson, James Hunt's biographer, has claimed that Hunt regularily drove the car stoned. That is not a hard reference, but I'm sure there are better informed people out there. After all, Hunt does have this reputation.

[David M. Kane]

Well that shocks me frankly as he was the type of guy who didn't need any
stimulus at all as he was pretty high tick! Maybe he took a shot or two to calm himself a bit since he got so excited?

During the Bev Bond F3 era apparently some of the drivers tried uppers and found they were very counterproductive as they started over driving the cars too much and were crashing left and right.

American professional footballers have for ages taken uppers particularly
the linemen where violence is at a premium (spelling?).

[DOHC]

I have my doubts that Hunt ever drove "stoned," in particular because I think that not even Hunt would have managed that.

But I think Lauda once told a story that Hunt had been partying most of the night, then came to practice hungover, drove a while and then pulled off the track and fell asleep there. Perhaps just another anecdote, but it sounds bad enough to me.

[cheesy poofs]

Yersterday, I came upon a the latest issue of a french magazine called "Automobile Historique " and in it, was the second part of a Ronnie Peterson profile which covered the years 76-78.
Unfortunately, I do not recall the name of the journo who wrote the article but, he writes that Peterson's accident was triggered by Hunt's car colliding with him...

AlesiUK,

Thanks for pointing this out to me.
I meant to write that the journalist was saying that the whole event was triggerd when Patrese made contact with Hunt.

I hadn't noticed my mistake.

[Maldwyn]

In the light of events in 1978 it is interesting to see the start of the 1979 Italian GP:

http://www.stopandgo...ri5/1979it1.jpg

[Gary C]

frankly, I have a very low opinion of Donaldson as an author.

[Lutz G]

First I have to quote myself about Monza 1976:

"The start looks strange - just like some cars at the back of the grid were still moving when the light went to green. I wonder if it was the same starter who pressed the button two years later... "

I just found in my '79 yearbook that Restelli was the man who switched to green in 1978. And I guess he had the job also in '76. Can anybody confirm that? In 1979 (no surprise) they had a new starter (Maffezzoli, a former police officer).

Originally posted by Maldwyn
In the light of events in 1978 it is interesting to see the start of the 1979 Italian GP:

http://www.stopandgo...ri5/1979it1.jpg

Because of the Brabham (?) going wide on the outside?

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by Lutz G
Because of the Brabham (?) going wide on the outside?

Exactly. Not sure if it is Lauda of Piquet but they are clearly over the white line and off the designated track, probably passing slower starting cars. It is a recipie for a similar accident to the year before but fortunately nothing happened this time.

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by DOHC
I have my doubts that Hunt ever drove "stoned," in particular because I think that not even Hunt would have managed that.

But I think Lauda once told a story that Hunt had been partying most of the night, then came to practice hungover, drove a while and then pulled off the track and fell asleep there. Perhaps just another anecdote, but it sounds bad enough to me.

The Donaldson book suggested Huntdrove stoned at the 1978 British GP (at Brands Hatch). There were apparently rumours he was smoking a joint in his motorhome before the race.

In the actually race, IIRC he crashed out after a few laps in strange circumstances - the car just snapped sideways for no apparent reason on the straight, and James could not explain why afterwards.

This is all from memory - so the details could be wrong, but I think that covers it.

On the Hunt episode of him falling asleep in testing - that's also from the Donaldson book. Hunt and Lauda were both due to test at Paul Ricard during their McLaren-Ferrari days, and Lauda had offered Hunt a lift to the track in his plane, which was due to take off early the next day (I think the two were in Germany). So the next morning Lauda is waiting with his pilot, anxious not to be late, when a car comes screeching up the runway, and out falls James, giving a scantily clad girl a lingering kiss as he goes. Hunt then sleeps all the way to Paul Ricard.

The test starts, and after a while silence falls over the track, with Hunt seemingly missing. Lauda and others hop into a van and travel around the track searching for James. On the Mistral straight, they spot the McLaren parked at the side of the road, and James asleep - I think by the side of the car!

[ThomasR]

Originally posted by mikedeering

So the next morning Lauda is waiting with his pilot, anxious not to be late, when a car comes screeching up the runway, and out falls James, giving a scantily clad girl a lingering kiss as he goes. Hunt then sleeps all the way to Paul Ricard.

The test starts, and after a while silence falls over the track, with Hunt seemingly missing. Lauda and others hop into a van and travel around the track searching for James. On the Mistral straight, they spot the McLaren parked at the side of the road, and James asleep - I think by the side of the car!

can't stop laughing.
You have imagine this picture. There parks a F1 car and the driver lying next to it sleeping like a baby

But it's damn dangerous, imagine he fell asleep while approaching Verrieres or Les Signes

btw, Murray Walker published a book recently and there was an excerpt printed in the german F1 racing. He writes there that James came totally drunk to the race when he was Murray's co-commentator and had two more bottles red vine with him.
It was right at the beginning of James' TV career and they had just one mic and when James wanted to say something rude against his "special friends" like Patrese (he couldn't do more) he tried to hit Murray in order to get the mic, but then the crew took James away

[LittleChris]

Reminiscent of the times that " James has just popped over to the far side of the circuit to check something " during the BBC broadcasts in the early 80's. Murray's waY of saying that Hunt had gone off for a quick spliff !!!

[Lutz G]

Monza 1979:

Originally posted by Maldwyn

Exactly. Not sure if it is Lauda of Piquet but they are clearly over the white line and off the designated track, probably passing slower starting cars. It is a recipie for a similar accident to the year before but fortunately nothing happened this time.

BTW: The new starter Maffezzoli told everbody before the race that who will cross the white line on the right will get the black flag. Also nobdoy should provoke a sort of rolling start....

@mikedeering

"The Donaldson book suggested Huntdrove stoned at the 1978 British GP (at Brands Hatch). There were apparently rumours he was smoking a joint in his motorhome before the race.
In the actually race, IIRC he crashed out after a few laps in strange circumstances - the car just snapped sideways for no apparent reason on the straight, and James could not explain why afterwards. This is all from memory - so the details could be wrong, but I think that covers it."

I got this race on video - perhaps they showed this accident. I'll have a close look.

BTW: I know that Hunt got the reputation *after* the races - but driving stoned is hard to believe.

Who is this Gerald Donaldson? Was he a close friend to James - or just another guy who did a book about Hunt?


Lutz

[David M. Kane]

The night I went drinking with James Hunt he was still in F3. I, however, did not get the impression that he was other than a guy who liked a good time. I've been around a lot of heavy drinkers and a lot of heavy drug users over the course of my life and I did not and do not perceive him as the type of personality who didn't keep himself zipped-up. BUT, how much can you really tell about a person from being with them three times. BUT,
when you are trying to sell a book...

[Lutz G]

Originally posted by Lutz G

And Patrese had his part - but is IMO not to blame for Peterson's death.

@Barry Lake

"Should a large portion of blame go all the way back to whoever made the decision to give the flag to this particular gentleman "

And to the man who switched to green himself. He had a *big* responsibility in these days - and he could have said "no" before taking this job.

I just went through some old mags (Motorsport Aktuell) from 1978. I seems not every driver was pointing his finger on Patrese only (like Lauda did right after the accident). His teammate John Watson wrote one week after the tragedy "it was 80 percent the fault of the starter". (I can't quote his whole statement cause this issue is missing in my collection - this Watson quote is from the MSA-Mailbag - 4.10.78)

Lutz

[Mohican]

Being a total Ronnie Peterson fan, I have read this whole thread with great interest - even if i find the speculation about James Hunt's drinking habits absolutely deplorable.

As somebody pointed out earlier, all this happened more than 24 years ago - and surely while we mourn Ronnie, we can also recognise that another very fine driver, Riccardo Patrese, has had his entire life and career blighted by this same story. at the very least, it is clear today that he was very unfairly treated in 1978 and for many, many years afterwards.

I like to think that people should be given the benefit of the doubt, and I am firmly in the Mario Andretti camp on this one.

[Maldwyn]

In an article for CAR magazine (Sept 1991) Nigel Roebuck wrote one of his many pieces about Riccardo Patrese and it included the following from Riccardo:

"I never had and problems with the accident itself, except that Ronnie had been my hero, and I was very sad at his death. But I knew very well what had happened - and that it hadn't been my fault. It was some years before I was officially cleared of blame, but by that time I'd turned in on myself, became a loner. It wasn't the answer, of course, but a trauma like that is bound to change a man. It certainly made me stronger, I'm sure of that."

"You know, all the drivers who banned me from the race eventually came to say sorry, Riccardo, we were wrong. Except for James Hunt."

[BS Levy]

Sure is easy to sit outside the cockpit after the fact (more than two decades after the fact, no less) and make jugments, pronouncements, pontifications and lay blame as to what may or may not have happened. What on earth is to be gained? I think Jacky Ickx got it pretty right when he answered a journo asking him about the risks of motor racing when he said: "Racing's a dangerous sport. That's the way it's built."

[masterhit]

Yeah, it was a racing accident. Peterson would have lived if it weren't for poor medical treatment.

[Ray Bell]

While it's probably true that the treatment could have been better, and that it certainly would have been in Britain or Australia, you can't actually say that.

[masterhit]

Probably Ray - like you say again it's too easy to just lay blame just for the sake of it.

My posts are best seen as a "two pennies worth" comment, often made on the spur of the moment, rather than taking days. I change my mind more often than my socks! I will contradict myself not just in the same thread but often in the same post, and that's even after susequent re-edits!

Edit: I was trying to think of something poignant and meaningful to say, but on second thoughts, I realise that I genuinely have nothing of insight to this subject to add other than yet more judgement and opinion, which it certainly does not deserve as it is too emotive and significant.

[maxie]

Speaking of Colin Chapman treated his drivers like "HIRED HITMEN", was it because of the death of Jim Clark? They had a close bond and Clark's death must have devastated him. I remember watching a clip interviewing Chapman, and he kind of said that after Clark's death, he learned that he should never have too close a relationship with a driver.