91 replies to this topic

[Tim CH]

Dear all

I am looking for pics and details of Norm Beechey's blue 1965 Neptune Racing Team Mustang. I just found 2 (bad) picture of the car during races. The only details I could find where delivered by the 1:18 model I bought. It would be great if anyone from Downunder has some more details about this car, because I plan to build up a replica using my Mustang.

Thank you in advance,
Tim

[Gary Davies]

There's a nice picture of it here - http://www.aussieroa...m/Stanley2.html

[Terry Walker]

Nice pic on the site, I agree. Must be early though - when it raced at Caversham it was no longer on steel wheels, but massive 5-spoke mags.

EDIT - only catch might be that Beechey's car was right hand drive.

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Vanwall
There's a nice picture of it here - http://www.aussieroa...m/Stanley2.html

Thank you very much. I will check the picture as soon as I am home (the page is unfortunately blocked here in my office ).

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Nice pic on the site, I agree. Must be early though - when it raced at Caversham it was no longer on steel wheels, but massive 5-spoke mags.

EDIT - only catch might be that Beechey's car was right hand drive.

...the rims should be white painted "Torque Trust II" (check my wheels).

.-.and if the 1:18 models are correct, the Mustang was left handed!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Vanwall
There's a nice picture of it here - http://www.aussieroa...m/Stanley2.html

Not related to your request about the Mustang, but I just had a look at the site, terrific pics there of racing in the '60's but especially the candid shots of the GLTL cars of Jim Clark and Graham Hill, pity we cannot replicate the access and casual atmosphere in this age of the "fast cheque book".

Love the Cortinas with there wheels dangling in the air

[Ray Bell]

There's a pic (at least one!) on this forum already...



As you can see, the car was still left hand drive and I think it remained so through several owners.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Tim CH


...the rims should be white painted "Torque Trust II" (check my wheels).

.-.and if the 1:18 models are correct, the Mustang was left handed!

That is a very nice looking Mustang!

Henry

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Tim CH


...the rims should be white painted "Torque Trust II" (check my wheels).

.-.and if the 1:18 models are correct, the Mustang was left handed!

I used to travel to CH on business, and thought the exhaust/pollution laws were/are very strict, is the Mustang exempt or is there anything special that you have done to it? Oh...it is a beauty, love the wheels

[David Shaw]

I've had a look through my ATCC book and "FORD The racing history", and the only right hand drive Mustang that I have found a photo of was Robin Bessant's 65 version.

[Terry Walker]

Quite right: LHD. I was mislead by this picture, with Norm leaning well over to the right as he wrestles it around Caversham. The pic shows the later mag wheels, too.

[Leo D]

Tim,
If you have a look around Chris Meadens site in the 1960's pages you should find a few shots
http://members.tripo.../photo_page.htm

This is the Beechey Mustang after it was sold to Bryan Thomson (From the same site)

http://members.tripo...er_1967_web.jpg

As far as I know, Bryan Thomson was the next owner after Beechey. Thomson took the car to the UK to race for 12 months... The picture on the site is taken after it's return as far as I know. One of the interesting items being the inner hood lining which was covered with drivers signatures that Thomson had collected during his trip overseas.

Chevron Publishing are releasing a DVD on the history of Racing Mustangs in Australia

http://www.chevron.c...rd_mustang.html

I assume that since Norm Beecheys was the first of the breed here it will feature.

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


That is a very nice looking Mustang!

Henry

Thank you very much, Henry

The best thing is, it doesn't only look fast, it indeed goes like hell. I have restore the complete mechanic over 2 years. The engine (original block .60 overbore) has nearly 370 DIN HP, the transmission is an aluminum 4-speed manual out of a GT350 Shelby, it has a race ready suspension, new brakes, and so on... big fun to drive.

Regards,
Tim

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by sterling49


I used to travel to CH on business, and thought the exhaust/pollution laws were/are very strict, is the Mustang exempt or is there anything special that you have done to it? Oh...it is a beauty, love the wheels

...you are right, our laws are very restrictive but not for vintage cars. Authoritative is the law valid when the car was built - in my case 1965. So the Stang can have up to 92DB measured 7 meters on the side of the car. That's quite noisy.

As I mentioned the car is - except for the chassis which is rustfree Texas - completely restored (finished 2 weeks ago!). The exhaust is a 2 1/4" Flowmaster kit.
I will post some pictures as soon as I have uploaded them.

Tim

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Quite right: LHD. I was mislead by this picture, with Norm leaning well over to the right as he wrestles it around Caversham. The pic shows the later mag wheels, too.

Thanks a lot for the picture. Astonishing that he was driving without any roll bars!

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Leo D
Tim,
If you have a look around Chris Meadens site in the 1960's pages you should find a few shots
http://members.tripo.../photo_page.htm

This is the Beechey Mustang after it was sold to Bryan Thomson (From the same site)

http://members.tripo...er_1967_web.jpg

As far as I know, Bryan Thomson was the next owner after Beechey. Thomson took the car to the UK to race for 12 months... The picture on the site is taken after it's return as far as I know. One of the interesting items being the inner hood lining which was covered with drivers signatures that Thomson had collected during his trip overseas.

Chevron Publishing are releasing a DVD on the history of Racing Mustangs in Australia

http://www.chevron.c...rd_mustang.html

I assume that since Norm Beecheys was the first of the breed here it will feature.

Thanks a lot, Leo, for the history details. I didn't know anything of it.

All of you helped me a lot with your input. A great forum and an even greater community!

Best regards,
Tim

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Tim CH


Thank you very much, Henry

The best thing is, it doesn't only look fast, it indeed goes like hell. I have restore the complete mechanic over 2 years. The engine (original block .60 overbore) has nearly 370 DIN HP, the transmission is an aluminum 4-speed manual out of a GT350 Shelby, it has a race ready suspension, new brakes, and so on... big fun to drive.

Regards,
Tim

Yes, I understand about moving fast in an early model.


Henry

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Yes, I understand about moving fast in an early model.


Henry

...o.k. Henry, I am speechless!!
What a marvelous car, you own!! Congrats and just wow!

The Augusta International Raceway is just great. I wished we had such a track here in Switzerland, but after the big Mercedes race crash in 1955 the Swiss government banned all circle races in Switzerland. Thus there are no raceways in Switzerland. If we want to drive on a circle track we will have to travel to France, Italy, Germany or Austria. Luckily we are at least in between of all these countries ;-)

[Leo D]

Tim....

The ultimate performance upgrade for your Mustang would of course, be one of these...

http://www.members.t..._-_Repaired.jpg

[David Shaw]

I couldn't get the above link to work, and it wouldn't paste properly for me either, so:

[Leo D]

David....

Sometimes the links seem to work on here at other times they don't.... don't know why

The pic is again on the Chris Meaden site
http://members.tripo..._and_pieces.htm

If Tim has a good look around that site, he may also find the pic of Graham Moore standing beside the Camaro wearing a Norm Beechey Speed Shop Jacket....

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Leo D
Tim....

The ultimate performance upgrade for your Mustang would of course, be one of these...

http://www.members.t..._-_Repaired.jpg

Decals do make them go faster (or so it seems). This one is super glued to the fender of mine.

Henry

[275 GTB-4]

There is a nice shot of the Beechey Stang in the current issue of Australian Muscle Car.....

http://newspapers.is...D=2466&catID=17

I am currently devouring the 27 page feature on the Pete Geoghegan cars

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
There is a nice shot of the Beechey Stang in the current issue of Australian Muscle Car.....

http://newspapers.is...D=2466&catID=17

I am currently devouring the 27 page feature on the Pete Geoghegan cars

...unfortunately it is not really easy to get the magazine in Switzerland, but thanks for the hint.

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Decals do make them go faster (or so it seems). This one is super glued to the fender of mine.

Henry

...great tuning tips... I need more fast decals

...unfortunately Beechey obviously had not realy a lot of sponsor except for Neptune Oil

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Leo D
David....

Sometimes the links seem to work on here at other times they don't.... don't know why

The pic is again on the Chris Meaden site
http://members.tripo..._and_pieces.htm

If Tim has a good look around that site, he may also find the pic of Graham Moore standing beside the Camaro wearing a Norm Beechey Speed Shop Jacket....

Sounds interesting, I will check the link at home... as mentioned http://members.tripod.com pages are banned here in the office...

[Leo D]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
There is a nice shot of the Beechey Stang in the current issue of Australian Muscle Car.....

GTB.... So that'd be the picture on page 37, where Norm is in front of Pete?


Tim,
Don't let the lack of signage on the car lead you to think that there was a lack of sponsorship, although I'm sure he would have liked more.. what driver doesn't...Norm was one of the leading "Stars" of Australian Motorsport up until his retirement.
Before 1968 or pretty close to it, commercial signage on racing cars was not allowed by the governing body here, so to overcome this, the cars were usually painted in the corporate colour scheme...... "Neptune" Blue in Norms case..... White with "Total" stripe in Pete Geoghegans case for example....

There are a couple of DVD's available featuring Norm, which you may or may not be interested in..

http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/17985/
http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/17910/

He also makes an appearance on this one as well...

http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/16823/

[David Shaw]

It's just a shame that the Bloodwood Gully productions are somewhat short, those 3 that you have linked to Leo are 36, 23 and 30 minutes.

I have the Geoghegan's DVD and enjoy it thoroughly though.

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Leo D

Tim,
Don't let the lack of signage on the car lead you to think that there was a lack of sponsorship, although I'm sure he would have liked more.. what driver doesn't...Norm was one of the leading "Stars" of Australian Motorsport up until his retirement.
Before 1968 or pretty close to it, commercial signage on racing cars was not allowed by the governing body here, so to overcome this, the cars were usually painted in the corporate colour scheme...... "Neptune" Blue in Norms case..... White with "Total" stripe in Pete Geoghegans case for example....

There are a couple of DVD's available featuring Norm, which you may or may not be interested in..

http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/17985/
http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/17910/

He also makes an appearance on this one as well...

http://www.pitstop.n...uery/plu/16823/ [/B]

Thank you very much, Leo.
That's a very interesting information. I didn't know the decals were not allowed in this racing era.

The legal restictions of that time are anyway an interesting issue. Which modifications were allowed to the car/engine in 1965? Looking at the pictures, the body had to be untouched, modifications to engine, suspension and exhaust seem to be allowed. I cannot see a roll cage or speciel safety harness (as far as any is visible on these pictures). Are there any information around?

[seldo]

I'll see if I can dust off some of the archives in the back of my brain.....
Modifications were, as I recall ( and I know I'll make some mistakes here):
Engine: max .040" overbore, stroke standard, original 'head modified by removal of metal only, valves free, inlet and exhaust free except original type eg carb/injection, gear-box - manufacturer's options only, clutch free, brakes - free but of original type ie disc/drum, body - no mods, roll-cage - optional, interior - original or manufacturer's option, wheels - max of 8" wide provided track not increased by more than 2", diff - optional manuf ratios and LSD/locked, suspension - original type but springs, shocks, sway-bars free, additional locating arms free, original bushes, no weight reduction..... No advertising or decals except for the entrant's name in letters 2" high on the front guard. Nothing on the glass at all. One of the slightly amusing details is that the rules frequently referred to items having to be "identically similar to the original item...". I'd always thought that something was either identical, or similar...but not both...
Sorry, there's bound to be some errors there but it's pretty close... I'm sure Ray will straighten me out....;)

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Tim CH


The legal restictions of that time are anyway an interesting issue. Which modifications were allowed to the car/engine in 1965? Looking at the pictures, the body had to be untouched, modifications to engine, suspension and exhaust seem to be allowed. I cannot see a roll cage or speciel safety harness (as far as any is visible on these pictures). Are there any information around?

Tim,

At that time, the class was known as "Improved Touring Cars". I can't give you the "exact" rules of the class as I don't have them .....I only work from my memory of the period..
The main thrust though, was that commercially available passenger cars that met certain criteria regarding size and passenger configuration were eligable.
The body work pretty much had to be as it was in road going form.... no flared guards lightweight panels etc...
Interior trim.... as supplied by the manufacturer....that meant everything... carpets....door handles...whatever. If it had bench seats...then you drove it with bench seats... if it had bucket seats... then you drove it with those bucket seats. Roll cages.. in 1965 the question would be...what is a roll cage?.... seat belts? They didn't really appear in any competition car here until about 1968....
Suspension... well that was pretty much stock as well....
Wheels..... subject to some sort of dimension restrictions around 7"-8" width I think...
Brakes....what was fitted was what you used...
Engine.... As supplied but with modifications allowed within certain limits...
Transmission.... as supplied....

Hope this fills in the gap a little.....

[Tim CH]

Thanks to both of you.
It is always very interesting to learn about the old rules/regulations.

Have a great day,
Tim

[Ray Bell]

Full harness (ie. two shoulder straps and a lap belt in combination) were mandatory...

David has it pretty right with the mods, and while I'm sure there were a few cars had some sort of rudimentary roll bar, they weren't mandated until later.

I do have a photo of the Don Elliott Mustang at Longford somewhere. It was modified from a car that had come into the country for road use, hence the right hand drive.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Full harness (ie. two shoulder straps and a lap belt in combination) were mandatory...

Ray,

Just in regard to the belt issue.... and I'm not disputing you here, but the reason I was think 1968 was, wasn't that the year that John Harvey and Leo Geoghegan had their accidents at Bathurst and one of the causes of their respective injuries was that they didn't have seat belts/harnesses fitted.... although both teams concerned were in the process of heading down the seat belt/harness route?.... if that makes sense...
Seat belts/harnesses weren't mandatory in all classes at that stage?

Also, wasn't there a book about Australian Touring Car Racing?.... "25 years Of Australian Touring Cars" or something similar?.... maybe that would help Tim fill in the gaps on the evolution of touring car racing here?

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Full harness (ie. two shoulder straps and a lap belt in combination) were mandatory...

David has it pretty right with the mods, and while I'm sure there were a few cars had some sort of rudimentary roll bar, they weren't mandated until later.

I do have a photo of the Don Elliott Mustang at Longford somewhere. It was modified from a car that had come into the country for road use, hence the right hand drive.

Thanks for the addition, Ray.

You mentioned the harness with shoulder straps. I never saw a picture of the interior of Beechey's Mustang, but the 1:18 model shows full harness - the shoulder straps are somewhere mounted to the package tray. I have no idea how the harness could have hold back the driver but probably nobody really cared about these days.

Re. the roll bars: Due to the fact, that the Shelby's had roll bars in 1965, there might be some cars with a least roll bars.

[Tim CH]

Originally posted by Leo D


Ray,

Just in regard to the belt issue.... and I'm not disputing you here, but the reason I was think 1968 was, wasn't that the year that John Harvey and Leo Geoghegan had their accidents at Bathurst and one of the causes of their respective injuries was that they didn't have seat belts/harnesses fitted.... although both teams concerned were in the process of heading down the seat belt/harness route?.... if that makes sense...
Seat belts/harnesses weren't mandatory in all classes at that stage?

Also, wasn't there a book about Australian Touring Car Racing?.... "25 years Of Australian Touring Cars" or something similar?.... maybe that would help Tim fill in the gaps on the evolution of touring car racing here?

Are you talking about this book?

[Leo D]

Yep, that looks like the book I'm thinking of Tim......

As to the interiors of the model, I think you'll find that the one you have pictured ie. the Beechey version is the same as the Pete Geoghegan version and the Bob Jane version, all from the same model company.
My memory is that in real life, that big hump in the middle of the front dashboard was only in the Geoghegan car... it contained a large Tacho.... Of course I'm willing to be shot down in flames about this if anybody desires....

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leo D
Just in regard to the belt issue.... and I'm not disputing you here, but the reason I was think 1968 was, wasn't that the year that John Harvey and Leo Geoghegan had their accidents at Bathurst and one of the causes of their respective injuries was that they didn't have seat belts/harnesses fitted.... although both teams concerned were in the process of heading down the seat belt/harness route?.... if that makes sense...
Seat belts/harnesses weren't mandatory in all classes at that stage?

Also, wasn't there a book about Australian Touring Car Racing?.... "25 years Of Australian Touring Cars" or something similar?.... maybe that would help Tim fill in the gaps on the evolution of touring car racing here?

Check the search facility for further details about the mandating of harnesses for openwheelers and sports cars... 1968 was the big change in that regard...

But tintops had full harnesses at least back in 1961, probably before that.

Yes, the Chevron book on the ATCC would help somewhat.

[seldo]

As I recall, seat-belts were mandatory in the mid '60s, but even just a lap-belt was ok. Roll-cages were optional. I had a huge accident at the old Surfers Paradise track in the '68 12 hour race in a light-weight Volvo 122S which broke an axle and lost a back-wheel at the flat-out Dunlop Curve at the end of the main straight. The car did 3 end-for-ends and 5 barrel-rolls at about 120mph and was of course totalled. I walked away from it thanks to the latent strength of the car, Volvo factory race-seat and the standard road-fitment 3-point lap-sash belt...no roll cage...

[Ray Bell]

I'm surprised you should say that, David... as it used to be a bit of a bone of contention that cars with 3-point belts were not allowed to run. Or maybe it was a Series Production thing?

A lap belt was never okay... I'm sure of that...

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Leo D


Tim,

At that time, the class was known as "Improved Touring Cars". I can't give you the "exact" rules of the class as I don't have them .....I only work from my memory of the period..
The main thrust though, was that commercially available passenger cars that met certain criteria regarding size and passenger configuration were eligable.
The body work pretty much had to be as it was in road going form.... no flared guards lightweight panels etc...
Interior trim.... as supplied by the manufacturer....that meant everything... carpets....door handles...whatever. If it had bench seats...then you drove it with bench seats... if it had bucket seats... then you drove it with those bucket seats. Roll cages.. in 1965 the question would be...what is a roll cage?.... seat belts? They didn't really appear in any competition car here until about 1968....
Suspension... well that was pretty much stock as well....
Wheels..... subject to some sort of dimension restrictions around 7"-8" width I think...
Brakes....what was fitted was what you used...
Engine.... As supplied but with modifications allowed within certain limits...
Transmission.... as supplied....

Hope this fills in the gap a little.....

Your brief precis of the rules of the 1960's improved production era is exactly correct in your summary, i have just looked at the period C.A.M.S. manual..

[Ray Bell]

Yes, this is the category that began 1 January, 1965 and ran through until the end of 1972...

Prior to that time the regs allowed boring to the class capacity limit, but very little else was changed. That was Appendix J. Classes were changed along with the rules, however.

Previously (totally from memory, so it may only be a 'guide'), up to 750cc, 1000cc, 1600cc, 2600cc and over were the classes. With the Improved Touring Cars rules the divisions became 1100cc, 1500cc, 2000cc, 3000cc and over.

There was also a limitation on 2-door cars, I think it was about 1100cc, but this was dropped in '65 and so the Mustangs could run. This also explains why the Dan Gurney 1961 Impala (that showed the Jags what for in England) couldn't race, even though it was in the country and owned by a couple of racing drivers.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Leo D


Tim,

At that time, the class was known as "Improved Touring Cars". I can't give you the "exact" rules of the class as I don't have them .....I only work from my memory of the period..
The main thrust though, was that commercially available passenger cars that met certain criteria regarding size and passenger configuration were eligable.
The body work pretty much had to be as it was in road going form.... no flared guards lightweight panels etc...
Interior trim.... as supplied by the manufacturer....that meant everything... carpets....door handles...whatever. If it had bench seats...then you drove it with bench seats... if it had bucket seats... then you drove it with those bucket seats. Roll cages.. in 1965 the question would be...what is a roll cage?.... seat belts? They didn't really appear in any competition car here until about 1968....
Suspension... well that was pretty much stock as well....
Wheels..... subject to some sort of dimension restrictions around 7"-8" width I think...
Brakes....what was fitted was what you used...
Engine.... As supplied but with modifications allowed within certain limits...
Transmission.... as supplied....

Hope this fills in the gap a little.....

These are the era rules my mk1 BDA escort are built to and it competed under these rules until the end of 1972.

[Ray Bell]

By that time it would have had to have a main rollover hoop and stays to the back parcel shelf at least...

That car, or its predecessor, featured on the footage shown on ABC2. It was 'parked' in Paddock Bend at Warwick Farm mid-race, Richard Knight driving as I recall.

[cosworth bdg]

Ray you are very correct in your observations of the telecast........

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

That car, or its predecessor, featured on the footage shown on ABC2. It was 'parked' in Paddock Bend at Warwick Farm mid-race, Richard Knight driving as I recall.

Would this be the Stillwell car that we're talking about?.... Also driven at one stage by Tubby Ritter?

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'm surprised you should say that, David... as it used to be a bit of a bone of contention that cars with 3-point belts were not allowed to run. Or maybe it was a Series Production thing?

A lap belt was never okay... I'm sure of that...

I could be wrong about the lap-belt, but I am quite positive about the 3-point lap-sash belt. And, no - not Series Prod - Improved Tourers...or maybe both. I had a perfect imprint of the belt by way of a bright blue bruise for about two weeks...

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Leo D


Would this be the Stillwell car that we're talking about?.... Also driven at one stage by Tubby Ritter?

Yes..............................................

[Leo D]

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Yes..............................................

http://members.tripo..._1-3-71_web.jpg

[David Shaw]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
There was also a limitation on 2-door cars, I think it was about 1100cc, but this was dropped in '65 and so the Mustangs could run. This also explains why the Dan Gurney 1961 Impala (that showed the Jags what for in England) couldn't race, even though it was in the country and owned by a couple of racing drivers.

McKeown's Lotus Cortina was up and running by early 1964, so maybe the capacity limit was a bit higher for the 2-door cars.