76 replies to this topic

[Bill Becketts]

Who remembers the original Silverstone Club Circuit..?

Specifically, Woodcote Corner





I have very fond memories of Woodcote,(It still commands real respect today) and I'm sure others think the same.

[Alan Cox]

Is it Mansell/Riley/Devaney/Sears?

Looks like one of Peter Scott-Russell's "....typical Silverstone finishes..."

I particularly remember a Mini 850 finish where about 8 cars were all in with a chance of victory at the final corner - and they all got round!

[Bill Becketts]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
Is it Mansell/Riley/Devaney/Sears?

Looks like one of Peter Scott-Russell's "....typical Silverstone finishes..."

I particularly remember a Mini 850 finish where about 8 cars were all in with a chance of victory at the final corner - and they all got round!

You mean like this...?



There were so many races like this, every couple of weeks. We were spoilt, I suppose.

[2F-001]

I fondly remember lots of those well-subscribed meetings on sunny Sunday afternoons through those fine summers in the 70s.
The meetings kicked off quite late, so we could have an early Sunday lunch at home and still get to the circuit before the first grid formed up.
Some of the FF1600 races, in particular, featured packs of cars rushing down that loooong straight into Woodcote lap after lap. Jim Walsh always seemed to work his way through the throng to somewhere near the front! (Crompton Lighting Royale, wasn't it?)

[RTH]

Ronnie in the snow in a 72.

[2F-001]

No, sorry - I missed Ronnie's 72 in the snow at Woodcote on the Silverstone Club circuit...

[Andrew Kitson]

Now you're talking! What a great corner, what drama, with the spectators close to the action.
It created atmosphere, a very special one unlike anywhere else, the anticipation of a pack of Formula Ford's on their last lap with no idea who would cross the line first. It was all down to the 'tow' into the Woodcote braking zone. When that corner went, so did all the atmosphere at Silverstone. The only place to watch was that wonderful final corner.

The chance of overtaking now, into Brooklands, is so far away from the stands there is no atmosphere ( unless you are a BRDC member of course in their own grandstand or BRDC suite right by that crucial overtaking point.).

Don't think it is David Sears in that Argo in the first pic. Is it Guerrero?

[Andrew Kitson]

Excuse the quality of this, but 3 shots that I crudely pieced together back in '86.
We used to sneak up in the Dunlop Tower, pretending to be from 'Radio Oxford' or something for a better view, until Les Dickens turfed us out!
The field storms down the club straight and miraculously appear in the same picture at Woodcote too.
Note how open Silverstone looked.

[Allan Lupton]

It was a corner that was tailor-made for exciting finishes to handicap races: if we had got our sums right, most of the field would be taking Woodcote together, and an exceedingly brave scratch man could (and on one occasion did) nip round on the inside of the rest of them to win.
Mind you, had he failed to get round the corner, he would have taken about 15 others off with him.

[Andrew Kitson]

Of course, Silverstone would not be the same without "Silverstone Syd" Herbert would it?
He told me recently he still lives in the village and if he hears anything going around the circuit, he has to pop in, just to see what it is.

[Simon Arron]

Overlooking the old Woodcote from the rickety press box - part of what was the Dunlop Tower - was one of life's greatest privileges. Period.

[simonlewisbooks]

The view from the stands was always great. If you sat in the right place, you got to see the entire club straight to watch the FF1600s weaving about and getting into position for that long final bend and then watch them all the way down to Copse.

The VSCC events with 7 or 8 ERAs all blasting round Woodcote in various stages of opposite lock(Brian Classic, Donald Day,Venables-Llewelyn etc. etc), and that wall of rasping ERA engines as a soundtrack,were always wonderful to watch. I do recall one poor guy losing the braskes on his Vauxhall 30/98 and ploughing into the sleepers right in front of me at considerable speed, being flipped out on the rebound - to the gasps of the crowd - then getting up and walking away!

The later layouts of the club circuit have never been as exciting to watch.. or it that just a sign of age? And of course back then you got to hear the much missed Peter Scott-Russell in full voice. Is it me or was it Peter's demise that signalled the end of the old style Silverstone and all it's rustic charm ?

[Stephen W]

My first visit to Silverstone was with my father for the 1967 British GP. On the Friday when we arrived the car was parked up behind the grandstands and wandered into the Woodcote Grandstand as F1 practice was already underway. The first cars I saw were Jochen Rindt in the Cooper-Maserati closely followed by Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 - I was hooked!

I also made several visits to 'club meetings' - mainly F3 races - always going to Woodcote, that is until they put in that ridiculous chicane.

Woodcote, before the chicane, was a fantastic corner either on the full circuit on the Club version. It is forever etched in my memory and with good old Peter Scott-Waffle in full flow it will be forever my favourite place to have watched F1 cars in anger!

After the installation of THAT chicane I found Stowe a much better vantage point for race days! However I was still drawn back to Woodcote always watching at leasy one practice session from the stands.

[Andrew Kitson]

Of course it wasn't just FF1600s which were dramatic. The corner produced some wonderful opposite lock drifts from all sorts of classes, sometimes ending upon the grass (or in the pit wall!)
Formula Libre was great with thundering F5000s or McLaren Can-Am cars passing much smaller cars at an alarming rate on the club straight, sometimes being passed themselves under braking or cornering by far more nimble F2 machinery. Also those wonderful un-silenced days when the noise at the start
would ring around those grandstands.

[f1steveuk]

Woodcote? To me, (and as a car nut!!) will always mean Barry Sheene (RG500) Kenny Roberts (OW31) and THAT scrap...............

[Andrew Kitson]

Yes that was something else agreed, however again a Woodcote GP circuit moment, this thread is about the club circuit.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Now you're talking! What a great corner, what drama, with the spectators close to the action.
It created atmosphere, a very special one unlike anywhere else, the anticipation of a pack of Formula Ford's on their last lap with no idea who would cross the line first. It was all down to the 'tow' into the Woodcote braking zone. When that corner went, so did all the atmosphere at Silverstone. The only place to watch was that wonderful final corner.

The chance of overtaking now, into Brooklands, is so far away from the stands there is no atmosphere ( unless you are a BRDC member of course in their own grandstand or BRDC suite right by that crucial overtaking point.).

Don't think it is David Sears in that Argo in the first pic. Is it Guerrero?

Yes Andrew definitely Guerrero, 1979, the works JM3 backed by Roldan Autos. By the looks of the B47 nose, it would be a late-summer meeting, perhaps August Bankie Monday.

[Huw Jadvantich]

At least once a month. Que for Dad to to pay the man on the gate, drive to find a car space, "quick dad come on I can hear the racing cars", dad's hand goes towards the ignition switch to turn it off and we have already bolted - he'll find us. We will be sitting on those amazing canvas seats that bounce the next person up when you sit down, and we will have picked the seat where you can see all the way down the club straight and all the way down to Copse.
We will be glued to our seats , he will turn up later having browsed through the caravan bookshop behind the stands. We will lose a)the programme b) our cold sausage sandwiches or c) Dads binoculars through the gaps in the grandstand floor, and nobody wants to move to go and retrieve
(particularly the binoculars incident).
Then when I was old enough to drive myself, if I could hear the racing cars as I aproached a car park space it was as much as I could do to lock my much valued car before dashing towards the stands to see what was going round.
Woodcote GP circuit was a good corner. Woodcote Club circuit was simply the best-motor racing circuits do not have to be complicated - a simple triangle provided the best motor racing I have ever seen.
When the old woodcote club circuit went, so did I, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been back to Silverstone. I went to Castle Combe - unfortunately that has been emasculated now too.
Now my local circuit is Pukekohe, where the public are no longer alowed to stand in the best viewing positions, and you don't get Silverstone finishes -nowhere else I've been can you get a Silverstone club circuit finish.

[Andrew Kitson]

Huw, great post...lost my programme, sandwiches etc many times as they dropped through the gap, having to crawl underneath to retrieve them. Yep, remember those cloth seats well, especially if the only ones available were down the front, soaking wet after overnight rain!


A pic I took with those seats in shot, my father and young brother with friends of my Dad's who came along. Taken at the Martini International for Interserie cars in May 1973. The guy on the left with the long hair was Canadian, used to seeing the Bruce & Denny show and big Can-Am grids. He was a bit bemused by the processional racing and lack of quality that was Interserie at that meeting! At least the other races were typical Silverstone - great! However on the GP track.

Another thing I remember well about that day was the fact we all went in a minibus. My dad managed to spin it coming out of a corner where a farm gate crossing was, it had cow s*** all over the road!

[simonlewisbooks]

Nicely put Huw. It all goes to show the secret of a great RACING circuit is a simple layout with room to manouver and a chance to get out of third gear....

[Andrew Kitson]

Just showed Syd this picture, interestingly he had this to say about it:
'The horns where fitted as standard but the wing on the back was fitted the night before the TT by the lad from Broadspeed, to stop the FIA asking about the one on the Big Cat. The wheels were given by Wolfrace, they were the ones that failed as I turned into Becketts some years later'.

[James Page]

Was this version of Woodcote lost when the GP circuit was changed? So, 1991-ish? I have very dim recollections of the V16 BRM being demonstrated on the Club circuit but can't remember when…

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Bill Becketts

[/B]

I just took a second look at this photo and it struck me the angles that F3 cars could corner at in 1979 is amazing! It's how I remember it but you do tend to think your mind has exaggerated after all these years.

You simply do not see this now. Even modern F Fords don't corner in this fashion. I wonder if it's not so much the cruder aerodynamics but the fact racing tyres in those days were all cross-ply and the suspension was more supple ?

Has the radial tyre, rather than wings, taken the spectacle out of modern single seater racing?

[Andrew Kitson]

No before that James. I think it must have been '89. The left hander at Brooklands was put in roughly where the paddock entrance was off the club straight, then a new short straight to meet the new chicane dog-leg by the Daily Express bridge. Even then it was not as dramatic as the proper Woodcote, however at least there was a grass bank on the paddock side that you could watch from. Spectators cannot get anywhere near Brooklands now due to the BRDC Grandstand and hospitality boxes by the new assembly area.

[James Page]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
No before that James. I think it must have been '89. The left hander at Brooklands was put in roughly where the paddock entrance was off the club straight, then a new short straight to meet the new chicane dog-leg by the Daily Express bridge. Even then it was not as dramatic as the proper Woodcote, however at least there was a grass bank on the paddock side that you could watch from. Spectators cannot get anywhere near Brooklands now due to the BRDC Grandstand and hospitality boxes by the new assembly area.

I think it must have been that grass bank that I was watching from. I can certainly remember spectating from 'inside the triangle' of the Club circuit.

[JSF]

Radials have a big part in it Simon, the slip angles for a crossply are much greater and the working area either side of the ideal slip angle are also greater with a crossply. It means you can get the cars far further out of shape before losing lateral traction and also you run with the car at more of an angle to the straight ahead at it's optimum traction point.

This makes it look far more demanding and exciting to drive, but it's actually much harder work running at the limit of a radial tyre due to it's narrower slip angle charicteristics.

Formula Fords still use a crossply tyre, the ACB10 from Avon.

[Alan Cox]

I agree with Andrew, this is a great thread, Bill - witness 26 posts in less than 24 hours.

I knew Dan would confirm the identity of the F3 gaggle.

[Bill Becketts]

Yes Andrew definitely Guerrero, 1979, the works JM3 backed by Roldan Autos. By the looks of the B47 nose, it would be a late-summer meeting, perhaps August Bankie Monday

I have the date 1st July 1979 on the back of the photo.


The wheels were given by Wolfrace, they were the ones that failed as I turned into Becketts some years later'.

I was Marshalling at "Becketts Inside" that day....We all felt sorry for Syd as his Jag was dragged off the track after he beached it on the kerb (On the racing line!)- No really we did

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Bill Becketts
The wheels were given by Wolfrace, they were the ones that failed as I turned into Becketts some years later'.

I was Marshalling at "Becketts Inside" that day....We all felt sorry for Syd as his Jag was dragged off the track after he beached it on the kerb (On the racing line!)- No really we did

He sometimes used to overtake the back markers into Copse in VSCC races, a scandalous thing to do, and I reckon one of them made wax effigies of those wheels and . . . .

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

...we all went in a minibus. My dad managed to spin it coming out of a corner where a farm gate crossing was, it had cow s*** all over the road!

He's a legend!

[Bill Becketts]

Can anyone shed light on the history of the club circuit, like when was the first meeting held?

I always understood that to become a member of the BRDC, you not only had to be invited to join but you also had to be able to complete a lap of the circuit in under one minute...

Was there any truth in this, or was it just another urban myth?

[Sharman]

[i]Originally posted by JSF

This makes it look far more demanding and exciting to drive, but it's actually much harder work running at the limit of a radial tyre due to it's narrower slip angle charicteristics

.

Formula Fords still use a crossply tyre, the ACB10 from Avon. [/B]

Those of you who have only known radials cannot imagine what a bloody fright I got when I first put Xs on a tweaked Minor 1000. ON THE ROAD a nice little bend which was normally taken at 60 on crossplies felt very secure at 70 on the Michelins until suddenly the things broke away at the back. Not expecting a violent event like that I lost it completely and swapped ends happily not even touching the verges and continued with some 2000 revs less on the counter much chastened

[picblanc]

Sorry Stuart,(put it on MCRNF if you must!!) but my memory of Woodcote is from 1975 seeing one Barry Sheene and one Johnny Cecotto absolutely on the edge of adhesion flat out cranked over with the back squirming around looking for grip during the F750 race fantastic!!! The corner is not quite the same now though is it!!? that goes for the rest of the completely ruined track!!

[picblanc]

Originally posted by picblanc
Sorry Stuart,(put it on MCRNF if you must!!) but my memory of Woodcote is from 1975 seeing one Barry Sheene and one Johnny Cecotto absolutely on the edge of adhesion flat out cranked over with the back squirming around looking for grip during the F750 race fantastic!!! The corner is not quite the same now though is it!!? that goes for the rest of the completely ruined track!!

Oh the Club circuit? missed that bit anyhow Woodcote was still the most ballsey? corner!!

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Bill Becketts
Can anyone shed light on the history of the club circuit, like when was the first meeting held?

According to the BRDC website:

1952 – The pits are relocated to the straight between Woodcote and Copse Corners. Work also includes resurfacing parts of the track; also digging ditches and building earth banks on the outside of corners. On the track itself, widening and easing the line at Copse and Becketts changes the lap length to 2.927 miles. The Silverstone Club Circuit, for smaller meetings, is also born.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by 2F-001
Some of the FF1600 races, in particular, featured packs of cars rushing down that loooong straight into Woodcote lap after lap. Jim Walsh always seemed to work his way through the throng to somewhere near the front! (Crompton Lighting Royale, wasn't it?)

Jim was always very quick at Silverstone, cheered on by Crompton Lighting's guests in their hospitality suite on the inside of Woodcote. His sponsor from Brush Fusegear (parent company of Crompton Lighting) was a terrific fellow and at many meetings from the late 70s to late 80s would invite several of us on the scene during this period for a post race drink as would the terrific SDC Builders guys (from the neighbouring suite who also sponsored several FF cars at Silverstone from '77 to '90). Infact you could almost do a pub crawl - from Crompton to SDC to the Silverstone clubhouse bar just across the track on the outside of Woodcote, trying not to stagger into the catchfencing on the way! Apart from Jim, Royale's Alan Cornock, John Village, John 'Butcher' Booth, Mike Blanchet, Adrian Fernandez, Gil de Ferran, Bernard Dolan, David Wheeler, Bernard Devaney, motorcyclist Keith Huewen and Bob Juggins are a few I remember staying back at Crompton and SDC at various times, with mechanics and wives/girlfriends in tow. Carl was Jim's sponsor, however most affectionately called him 'Basil Brush' as he was from Brush Fusegear! Occupants of those two suites were always the last to leave, often very late in the evening with the whole site in darkness.
As you can tell from this thread, I have very fond memories of the proper old Silverstone!

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Bill Becketts
Can anyone shed light on the history of the club circuit, like when was the first meeting held?

I always understood that to become a member of the BRDC, you not only had to be invited to join but you also had to be able to complete a lap of the circuit in under one minute...

Was there any truth in this, or was it just another urban myth?

Never heard your urban myth before!

The date given in the BRDC website for the Club circuit we are writing about would be right, but there was an earlier Club circuit (which used Club Corner, hence, presumably, the corner's name but didn't visit your eponymous corner) more or less from the start. It used also some of the infield runways, as did the long GP circuit on at least one occasion, although the all-peri-track version prevailed.

[Bill Becketts]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton


He sometimes used to overtake the back markers into Copse in VSCC races, a scandalous thing to do, and I reckon one of them made wax effigies of those wheels and . . . .

He still does Allan

Going back to Mr Kitsons efforts at "doing a David Hockney" in Post No 8

Also Andrew, As a marshal, we all knew Les Dickens and his smiling, happy go lucky outlook on life as we helped him and his team rebuild the catch fencing after EVERY ( or so it seemed) race.

Woodcote took no prisoners....ask Tim Harvey who suffered a career changing accident in his "Daily Express" sponsored Formula Ford car, during the early 80's

[lil'chris]

Never heard your urban myth before!

The date given in the BRDC website for the Club circuit we are writing about would be right, but there was an earlier Club circuit (which used Club Corner, hence, presumably, the corner's name but didn't visit your eponymous corner) more or less from the start. It used also some of the infield runways, as did the long GP circuit on at least one occasion, although the all-peri-track version prevailed.

I was looking through the 1950s Motor Sport DVD last night specifically at the July 1951 copy and this made reference to the Silverstone club circuit being 2.2 miles in length referring to Copse and Stowe as part of the layout. I wonder if this early club circuit used runways from Club to Copse then the perimeter road through Maggotts, Becketts, Chapel and Stowe back down to Club. I think that would be in the region of 2.2 miles.

[David McKinney]

That does ring a bell, LC

[lil'chris]

Look what I found on Darrens site, two club circuits of which I was previoulsy unaware

http://www.silhouet....ks/silvclub.jpg

http://www.silhouet....ks/silv1950.jpg

Edited by lil'chris, 19 June 2009 - 12:58.

[Allan Lupton]

I was looking through the 1950s Motor Sport DVD last night specifically at the July 1951 copy and this made reference to the Silverstone club circuit being 2.2 miles in length referring to Copse and Stowe as part of the layout. I wonder if this early club circuit used runways from Club to Copse then the perimeter road through Maggotts, Becketts, Chapel and Stowe back down to Club. I think that would be in the region of 2.2 miles.

My paper Motor Sport for July 1951 has a report of the Eight Clubs which only mentions Stowe; June 1951 has a report on the VSCC meeting which also only mentions Stowe: I deduce that their reporter (WB?) watched from Stowe.
I can't find your other references to corners or track length in July 1951, but the link above shows the Copse/Becketts/Stowe circuit (which I don't recall seeing before) so I'm not arguing!
I have somewhere a map of the Club circuit that I referred to above, but can't find it for the moment.

[lil'chris]

Allan,

It was an article by WB on an RAC Rally Time Trial. Stowe is mentioned numerous times and Copse once, but no mention of Club

[d j fox]

Give me a sunny day in the 1970's with a Silverstone“"big sky"”, Woodcote corner, Peter Scott-Russell and a typically fraught Formula Ford Final. Can I make that my Ground Hog Day please?

Edited by d j fox, 19 June 2009 - 15:15.

[alansart]

Give me a sunny day in the 1970's with a Silverstone“"big sky"”, Woodcote corner, Peter Scott-Russell and a typically fraught Formula Ford Final. Can I make that my Ground Hog Day please?

I marshaled at Woodcote on many occasions. Watching the snake of FFords hammering down the Club Straight and thinking "how are that lot ever going to get round the corner" will be embedded in my memory banks for ever!

Edited by alansart, 19 June 2009 - 15:34.

[Doug Nye]

Oh dear...

By and large, I detested the place.

DCN

[Allan Lupton]

Allan,

It was an article by WB on an RAC Rally Time Trial. Stowe is mentioned numerous times and Copse once, but no mention of Club

Ah, yes I just saw RAC Rally and skipped it!

Again as Stowe gets the most mentions in connection with incidents, WB must have been watching there. I used to like Stowe too and watched many races on the original GP circuit there.

[David McKinney]

By and large, I detested the place.

One of the first thing I discovered about British enthusiasts when I arrived in 1985 was that half of them were Silverstone people and the other half Brands Hatch...

[Allan Lupton]

One of the first thing I discovered about British enthusiasts when I arrived in 1985 was that half of them were Silverstone people and the other half Brands Hatch...

I have a foot in both halves!
At around 45 miles it is my nearest circuit and it was where I did most of my handicapping because the Eight Clubs, MGCC and BDC race(d) there. So I am a Silverstone person in that respect.
When I first went there in 1958 I thought it wasn't too bad for a dead aerodrome, but then I'd never been to another circuit. The first law of aerodromes applies in that they can be both windy and foggy (not usually at the same time, but . . .)! I have been colder at an April Silverstone than anywhere else.
As time passed the facilities have got better, but each "improvement" made it less suitable for Club racing and none of them seems to have addressed the track drainage problem.
Brands Hatch was o.k. when I last went there (probably 20 years ago), apart from the problem of getting there with London in the way which the M25 has not solved.

[Gregor Marshall]

I have lots of memories of standing outside the old BRDC clubhouse on the astro turf watching Dad through Woodcote - generally waving to me as he went past which once did lead to a los of control (in his MGB) for a moment and a 2nd instead of a win and of course afterwards it was my fault, lol!!
Have got some great in-car footage of Dad in an Opel Monza in '86 in the pouring rain - I think the only way he got it through Woodcoote was sideways, very little braking!! Mr Kitson has seen it and I'm sure he'll agree it's a sight to behold.
Agreed with some of the above comments on Silverstone being the coldest and wettest circuit in the UK, no other place compares to it in my experieince!!