38 replies to this topic

[GT Racing Online Magazine]

I'm opening a new thread on this one since I haven't seen anything about it in the other threads, and because the other Hakkinen threads are dilluted to say the least.

So, TS reports on the background to the McLaren test and it's a bit crazy to say the least. However, the reporter Heikki Kulta has a good track record regarding inside news from McLaren:

"According to information given to TS Hakkinen was lured back, in a serious effort, to F1 racing-but not by McLaren. The test last Thursday was at this stage working as a substitute. Gerhard Berger had tried to employ Hakkinen as a race driver at Toro Rosso.

Berger has not been satisfied by Vitantonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed, neither driver has been confirmed for next year. Toro Rosso's future looks brighter next year as it gets Ferrari engines and a Newey chassis. Last July Berger contacted Hakkinen, offering him a test, based on which negotiations would have proceeded. Berger being well aware that Hakkinen wants to race, on a serious basis, and that he has not been fully satisfied with DTM.

According to our information, Hakkinen turned again to his confidant, McLaren director Ron Dennis. Dennis was not overly joyed by his fomer star driver racing against mcLaren and thus on short notice constructed a special project for Hakkinen at McLaren. In other words, he ensured that Hakkinen was not on the driver market."

ANother article from yesterday also states that Hakkinen is the reserve driver for McLaren for next year (if Hamilton does not work out) and not de la Rosa. Howver, this article has a more speculative tone than the Toro Rosso one.

[911]

I'm not sure why Berger would be that disatisfied with Liuzzi & Speed. I thought those two did pretty well this year given their package. IMO, if Berger really thought he could lure Mika into that ride, then I don't think he's being realistic. Coming back to drive for McLaren would be risky enough for Mika, let alone driving for a weaker team like STR.

[Visionz]

Originally posted by 911
Coming back to drive for McLaren would be risky enough for Mika, let alone driving for a weaker team like STR.

How come?

I mean, where is the risk?

Driving weaker with STR would not make his past any less impressive if thats what you guys are referring to here in all the comeback threads... A come back would be great from Häkkinen with any team - it would just be interesting... even more so now that MS is away and F1 has all the new faces.

Even if he was a crappy driver nowadays, it would still be interesting.

[Blue]

Turun sanomat was quite confident when stating that Toro Rosso was he reason. Could it be though that they (Toro Rosso) only wanted to get media time by allowing Mika to test?

[jcbc3]

Originally posted by 911
I'm not sure why Berger would be that disatisfied with Liuzzi & Speed. ...

Count the spins.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Visionz


How come?

I mean, where is the risk?

Driving weaker with STR would not make his past any less impressive if thats what you guys are referring to here in all the comeback threads... A come back would be great from Häkkinen with any team - it would just be interesting... even more so now that MS is away and F1 has all the new faces.

Even if he was a crappy driver nowadays, it would still be interesting.

Because he'd still have a teammate.

Who might very well kick his ass.

[scheivlak]

So Mika Hakkinen, recently instated as an official ambassador for Johnny Walker and deeply tied to Merdeces for such a long time, would drive for a team sponsored by a different beverage company who sponsors Mercedes' main rival in the DTM?

Not very likely.

[911]

Originally posted by jcbc3



Count the spins.

I agree they've had their share of spins, but these two guys are young & quick.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by scheivlak
So Mika Hakkinen, recently instated as an official ambassador for Johnny Walker and deeply tied to Merdeces for such a long time, would drive for a team sponsored by a different beverage company who sponsors Mercedes' main rival in the DTM?

Not very likely.

No, not anymore, but the point was that Berger/Toro Rosso is what started this whole thing, but Ron Dennis would have none of it and gave Mika a McLaren job (or whatever) instead.

[GT Racing Online Magazine]

Originally posted by scheivlak
So Mika Hakkinen, recently instated as an official ambassador for Johnny Walker and deeply tied to Merdeces for such a long time, would drive for a team sponsored by a different beverage company who sponsors Mercedes' main rival in the DTM?

Not very likely.

actually it is likely (if we take the report to be correct). The Diageo deal is part of the "project" that Dennis sew up for Hakkinen, and the Toro Rosso negotiations were in July-August... the report as posted above explains the test and the Diageo deal, it does not state that the Toro Rosso negotiations are ongoing or recent (on the contrary)

[kamix]

Originally posted by 911


I agree they've had their share of spins, but these two guys are young & quick.

They're certainly young ...

[Cojayar]

Originally posted by 911


I agree they've had their share of spins, but these two guys are young & quick.

Yes.

But the have not (yet) delivered. They are loosing (slowly) his credit.

Young is relative, and if they don't shine this year they will have to make room for other younger or at least newer. There is always someone younger than you prepared.

Fast is not enough. Too much errors, too much incidents. Somehow not bad for Red Bull as a brand. They got the young wild drivers. But in this life results count too. The famous sentence "to win a race you have to finish first" is not so stupid. Fast and without errors is what they need to be. The positive difference a driver can make (0.2 or 0.3 a lap) is much less than the negative (a spin, beaching or damaging the car).

[jokuvaan]

Häkkinen needs all testing time there is to be a reserve driver of Mclaren. Overall it sounds like Häkkinen
blackmailed Dennis who doesnt want his icon to drive in another team.
Because I really cant believe that Häkkinen wanted to race in non-top team, it was main reason why he left in the first place, not good enough car.

Is DTM btw always different weekend than F1?

[tkulla]

^^ Yes, the DTM schedule fits into the gaps in the F1 schedule.

[Oho]

Originally posted by Dudley


Because he'd still have a teammate.

Who might very well kick his ass.

And.... The bottom line is that most people seem to have their opinions on the man cast in steel reinforced concrete. And what if as seems quite possible he doesn't worry about it.

[qwazy]

Originally posted by Cojayar

Yes.

But the have not (yet) delivered. They are loosing (slowly) his credit.

Young is relative, and if they don't shine this year they will have to make room for other younger or at least newer. There is always someone younger than you prepared.

Fast is not enough. Too much errors, too much incidents. Somehow not bad for Red Bull as a brand. They got the young wild drivers. But in this life results count too. The famous sentence "to win a race you have to finish first" is not so stupid. Fast and without errors is what they need to be. The positive difference a driver can make (0.2 or 0.3 a lap) is much less than the negative (a spin, beaching or damaging the car).

Gosh, whatever happened to the days when it took time to hone your craft completely?

I think with todays F1, everyone expects these young guns to be perfect, on the dot within their first seasons. When in reality, more experience is needed for them to come into their own.

Give them time, they're in their early 20's. Let's not write 'em off just yet. Let's not forget that this topic is about a nearly 40 year old guy makin' a comeback.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Spyker MF1

clicky

Is the Hakk gonna be back in 2007 maybe 08?

Those guys are seriously getting MH back to F1. As a fan of Mika I’m not even sure if I hope that he would come back.

[Oho]

Originally posted by Blue


Those guys are seriously getting MH back to F1. As a fan of Mika I’m not even sure if I hope that he would come back.

I read the same piece but why cannot it be De La Rosa or Paffet for that matter. Even then Häkkinen could be pivotal as it may hinge on his future role within McLaren.

[firebone]

Toro Rosso- out with liuzzi and speed and in with mika and jacques?

[Visionz]

In the end the case doesn`t come to the opinion of any of us.
Any good reason might not prevent Mika from wanting to drive once more.

Bottom line is that Hakkinen was the happiest when he was driving a F1 car and since then hasn`t found something to fill his life with. Driving DTM just aint the same.

If driving a F1 car is the only thing making him happy, then that is what he will do if a chance is offered. No one can prove that he wont be competitive and if someone could - he might still do it just for the fun.

I know from my experience that if you miss something really bad, then youre going to try to get there again, no matter if you know that things would have changed as time has passed.

Sometimes you just need to go to that place one more time to see for your self that things have changed and to make sure how they are nowadays. Until you go there for one last time, you wont get peace and rest from your thoughts and memories.

I think that is what Mika needs to do, see things for himself for the last time. Quit beacuse he has to, not because of any other reason. Only racing once again can give him the answers he is looking for and make him sure of how things are nowadays.

He might lose to the ones like Hamilton etc. or he might win like he used to. Anyhow, he will get to have the experience he needs to close the circle.

[qwazy]

Originally posted by Visionz
In the end the case doesn`t come to the opinion of any of us.
Any good reason might not prevent Mika from wanting to drive once more.

Bottom line is that Hakkinen was the happiest when he was driving a F1 car and since then hasn`t found something to fill his life with. Driving DTM just aint the same.

If driving a F1 car is the only thing making him happy, then that is what he will do if a chance is offered. No one can prove that he wont be competitive and if someone could - he might still do it just for the fun.

I know from my experience that if you miss something really bad, then youre going to try to get there again, no matter if you know that things would have changed as time has passed.

Sometimes you just need to go to that place one more time to see for your self that things have changed and to make sure how they are nowadays. Until you go there for one last time, you wont get peace and rest from your thoughts and memories.

I think that is what Mika needs to do, see things for himself for the last time. Quit beacuse he has to, not because of any other reason. Only racing once again can give him the answers he is looking for and make him sure of how things are nowadays.

He might lose to the ones like Hamilton etc. or he might win like he used to. Anyhow, he will get to have the experience he needs to close the circle.

I like that, good take.

It's almost like when Jordan came back for the second time.

[CWeil]

Originally posted by firebone
Toro Rosso- out with liuzzi and speed and in with mika and jacques?

[No brain no pain]

I do think Mika H. will do a comeback. My bet is that he will be testing on a more or less regular basis through 2007 with McLaren, and then go to Prodrive-Mercedes (or badged Chrysler if this company is not sold off by Mercedes..) along with either Gary Paffett or Sebastian Bourdais.

[kodandaram]

I would be shocked if Hakk replaced any of the two young guns at STR . Both have been impressive enough not be replaced by a comeback champion.

I don't know what the fat dentist is talking about - McLaren just announced Hamilton . Does he think they will show a public no-confidence in him by announcing he will be moved to Spyker and Hakk will replace him ? What a joke.

I think Mika is just as confused as to what to do as are the others who are confused as to how to deal with his motives. He seems to want to comeback but is not committing it seems.

[Cheap Wine Alesi]

Originally posted by kodandaram
I would be shocked if Hakk replaced any of the two young guns at STR . Both have been impressive enough not be replaced by a comeback champion.

Exactly how have liuzzi and speed been impressive?I see nothing special about either one.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by Cheap Wine Alesi
Exactly how have liuzzi and speed been impressive?I see nothing special about either one.

Yeah, they have massively underperformed what the car is capable of. And on the occasion whenthey are driving fast enough, they spin or crash...

With better drivers I think they could have run Red Bull close in points.

[kodandaram]

Originally posted by Cheap Wine Alesi

Exactly how have liuzzi and speed been impressive?I see nothing special about either one.

So have they performed so badly that the have to be replaced by a former champ who will be 5 secs off the pace when he turns a wheel competitively ?

[Cheap Wine Alesi]

Originally posted by kodandaram


So have they performed so badly that the have to be replaced by a former champ who will be 5 secs off the pace when he turns a wheel competitively ?

firstly Häkkinen was 3,5 seconds off the pace, in his first run for 5 years in a totally unfamiliar car. give him some testing time and he would be up to Liuzzis time, im quite sure of that.

That said, i never stated anywhere that they should be replaced with Häkkinen, there are plenty of young drivers around more talented than Speed and Liuzzi, they should replace these 2 duds

[F1 Tor.]

Originally posted by kodandaram


So have they performed so badly that the have to be replaced by a former champ who will be 5 secs off the pace when he turns a wheel competitively ?

It depends if you take Mika at his word or not. He kept repeating after his test that trying to set a fast time would be foolish/dangerous and that wasn't what he was trying to do over his 80 laps. If you believe him then there's a lot of fight left in the old dog, as there's loads of room for improvement. If you don't, then he's basically wasting his time. I still haven't figured out his motives and I'm not getting excited until the dust settles and we get clear answers. Anyway. I'm off for two weeks, so a Happy Holidays to everyone on the board. See you in Jan/07, where we might have some answers, but I doubt it.

[Dudley]

Of course all of this overlooks the fact there isn't a hope in hell that Hakk would take a drive with STR.

Or anyone for that matter.

[K-One]

Good that Mika has found some off-season activities as he seems to be full of energy despite his age. But I wouldn't call him flamboyant

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/6230415.stm

[pixelpunk]

Reading between the lines in this article to me it seems like Häkkinen has a great relationship with Dennis who might just be happy to see his former champion compete in F1, regardless of team. And, from the quotes of Berger, he probably would enjoy getting back to racing F1's. If Häkkinen is not overly prestigous (ie not concerned about getting in on another WDC) why shouldn't he get in the seat of a nice team such as Toro Rosso? Just to get back racing this kind of machinery on the tracks he's used to.

If he doesn't contend for championships due to the car (or whatever) so who cares? Obviously he will have a good time and if he delivers within the team it's great, if not back to DTM maybe or quit racing all together.

I'm all for it.

Edit: s/Redbull/Toro Rosso

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by micra_k10



With better drivers I think they could have run Red Bull close in points.

And what evidence do you base this on other than wishful thinking?
The fact that Red Bull's car was an overheating mess during parts of 2006 allowed STR to run as close they did not the brilliance of STR's (year old Red Bull '05) car.





as for Hakk ever returning to F1.....

C'mon folks Berger is and always has been a prankster and piss taker- a true "character" . This man once replaced Senna's passport photo with a picture of a penis (resulting in Senna being held in Argentina for 24 hours). So feel free to go ahead believe whatever he says.

[Tolyngee]

Originally posted by 911
I'm not sure why Berger would be that disatisfied with Liuzzi & Speed. I thought those two did pretty well this year given their package. IMO, if Berger really thought he could lure Mika into that ride, then I don't think he's being realistic. Coming back to drive for McLaren would be risky enough for Mika, let alone driving for a weaker team like STR.

Although he's been gone a few yrs, but an experienced driver can make a difference in a car that you should think doesn't have much of a chance...

Take 1993 Senna at McLaren... I mean, that yr Benetton was getting the top Ford engine, NOT McLaren... Senna was so unconvinced of McL's possibilities that for most of that season he was a on race-per-race contract basis... And he was never able to convince Ford (altho their contract with B may have been it also...) to give him the better engine...

But, know what? He made a season out of it... Finished 2nd in the DC, and was only eliminated from DC contention in the last few races... this was against Prost in a car that should have done a Mansell and just drove away with the DC in...

And Senna scored 73 pts that year, Benetton TEAM scored 72... Senna _HIMSELF_ secured McL's 2nd place in the CC that yr... Which, against Williams, was realistically the best result possible...

If Senna had performed any better that yr, it wouldn't have been seen as so much a triumph for Senna as a pathetic performance from Williams... (they did make a lot of errors that yr, Prost and Hill...)

I think the only thing that works against Hakkinen is being away a half-decade...

[Dudley]

Yes but senna was a genius at the top of his game, Hakkinen has driven 1 day in 5 years.

[312 PB]

give him a season to reacquaint himself with the machinery, politics, atmosphere and tracks and then see what's what in 08

[Spunout]

Originally posted by Tolyngee


Although he's been gone a few yrs, but an experienced driver can make a difference in a car that you should think doesn't have much of a chance...

Take 1993 Senna at McLaren... I mean, that yr Benetton was getting the top Ford engine, NOT McLaren... Senna was so unconvinced of McL's possibilities that for most of that season he was a on race-per-race contract basis... And he was never able to convince Ford (altho their contract with B may have been it also...) to give him the better engine...

But, know what? He made a season out of it... Finished 2nd in the DC, and was only eliminated from DC contention in the last few races... this was against Prost in a car that should have done a Mansell and just drove away with the DC in...

And Senna scored 73 pts that year, Benetton TEAM scored 72... Senna _HIMSELF_ secured McL's 2nd place in the CC that yr... Which, against Williams, was realistically the best result possible...

If Senna had performed any better that yr, it wouldn't have been seen as so much a triumph for Senna as a pathetic performance from Williams... (they did make a lot of errors that yr, Prost and Hill...)

I think the only thing that works against Hakkinen is being away a half-decade...

That McLaren was WAY better than next year´s Toro Rosso - as displayed by Senna and inexperienced Häkkinen.

Mika already turned down Williams seat few years ago, partly because he wasn´t sure if Frank & co would be competitive enough.

Now, after 5 years of absence, he comes back to race for low end team? I don´t think so.

[Tolyngee]

Originally posted by Spunout


That McLaren was WAY better than next year´s Toro Rosso - as displayed by Senna and inexperienced Häkkinen.

Mika already turned down Williams seat few years ago, partly because he wasn´t sure if Frank & co would be competitive enough.

Now, after 5 years of absence, he comes back to race for low end team? I don´t think so.

Since Hakkinen had more laps in that car that yr, I don't quite understand the "inexperienced" part... His experience with the car, and all of the testing at Portugal (his race debut in '93 in the McL), is why he qualified ahead of Senna...

I really prefer to wait until all the cars hit the track on a race weekend before jumping the gun on assuming what car is way better than another...

I don't know what his DTM career's been like, but if he is not happy, eh dunno...

Anyway, I wonder if karma concerns also kept him away from Frankie boy...

But, after MS's comments on why he ever doubts his own return (you just can't leave F1 and expect to return and be at the top of your game, etc etc), I really can't understand what Mika's toying around with here... But, if it makes him happy...

But, even if he got the top seat, his half-decade absence is still the biggest obstacle anyway... I can't see a return anywhere for that reason alone...

But considering Ron's supposed Finn-fetish, who the hell knows?

[No brain no pain]

All and everything goes off topic here.. I just give in.