30 replies to this topic

[Tony Kaye]

Three high quality historic racing magazines were launched in England between 1992 and 2001. The content was tailor-made for TNF’ers, but as far as I know each one in turn failed.

The first issue of ‘Historic Race & Rally’ was July/August 1992 and it continued as a bimonthly until at least late 1993. The editor was Clive Richardson and regular contributors included Graham Gould, David McKinney, Doug Nye and Brian Harvey.

In 1994 it was ‘replaced’ by the similarly titled ‘Historic Racing’ under the editorship of Graham Gould with Mckinney, Nye and Harvey also moving to the new publication. It started as a bimonthly with the August/September issue of 1994 and was produced on a monthly basis thereafter. The last issue I have seen was Volume 2, number 2 of 1995.

Graham Gould is nothing if not persistent, for in 2000 he had one final fling with ‘Historic Motor Racing’. The first issue was probably August/September 2000, but this time Brian Harvey was the only member of the original group to make regular contributions.

Please, can anyone provide more details of these fine magazines? In particular, which was the last edition of each one? I have a few duplicates if anyone would be interested in a straight swap to fill my gaps. (I also have dozens of duplicates of other racing magazines going back to the 1940’s which I’d like to swap. You can contact me at limerocker@hotmail.com,)

Was an index ever produced for these three magazines? Without it, their wonderful content will be ignored by future historians, both professional and amateur. That would be a great shame.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Tony - sorry that I cannot help 'cause I don't know how to collect those interesting magazines you mention. Instead I have only numerous copies of old magazines, my oldest dates back to 1900.

[2F-001]

"Historic Race & Rally" does not appear to have been strictly bi-monthly in a continuous sense;
they are datelined thus:
Vol 1, issue 1, Jul/Aug 92 (I don't seem to have that one, but Tony -above- gives the detail)
Vol 1, issue 2, Sep/Oct 92
Vol 1, issue 3, Dec 92/Jan 93
Vol 1, issue 4, Feb/Mar 93
Vol 1, issue 5, Jul/Aug 93
Vol 1, issue 6, Oct/Nov 93

That's as late as I have to hand here - have vague recollections of a later issue, but could well be mistaken.

In its time, a very well-produced magazine and still enjoyable to re-read now. Much missed for something so short-lived.

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"Historic Racing"
The issues I knowingly have stop one short of yours, Tony, so can't help there - though for the moment I can't find Vol 1. No.2 - what was in that one?

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"Historic Motor Racing"
I'm not sure I even remember seeing that... could you tell us little more about it?

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[Gary C]

I've got all of these somewhere..........apart from the one which featured an in-depth examination of the Lotus 72, an early issue of 'Historic Race & Rally'?? I lent it to a friend and, of course, never got it back. If someone has a spare of that, I would LOVE a copy.

[2F-001]

That's Vol 1, Issue 5, Gary - "July/August 1993".
Fourteen pages of Lotus 72s!
It will be difficult to scan (if not technically illegal!) without damaging the spine (the so-called "perfect" binding) - but I'll have a go if a copy doesn't turn up - are they especially rare? Whatever, you could certainly borrow it sometime if you can't find one ( assuming you are more reliable than your friends! )

[Gary C]

would love to borrow it, Tony, if I can't come up with a 'new' copy.

[Paul Parker]

Clive Richardson's original effort, Historic Race & Rally was fantastic in every respect, even the paper was de luxe but inevitably it had no real commercial market or appeal beyond those persons who are/were actually involved with the genre.

It was sadly doomed from the get go and I recall that even early on the publication dates were more than somewhat inconsistent. I do wonder having had some experience in this area whether or not the publishers had trouble getting it distributed into the major newsagents etc., as there was a status quo in operation that precluded certain journals on the basis of shelf space/life.

Anyway the articles were wonderful and well researched and it was more like a serious book in installments than a magazine. I've got every copy plus the successors and a lot more, I really ought to get rid of a lot of this stuff because it weighs literally tons and I'm running out of space.

[Vitesse2]

Vol 2/2 was the last Historic Racing. Someone not a million miles from this keyboard had a letter published in it ....

[Gary C]

Paul, if you have a spare copy of vol.1 issue 5, then please contact me!!

[2F-001]

So, we've established that "Historic Racing" had six issues (Vol 1, Nos. 1-4; and Vol 2, Nos 1-2).

Paul, can you confirm how many issues there were of "Historic Race & Rally"?
ie: Were there any beyond Vol 1, Issue 6?

[Sharman]

Why don't you ask Graham who was involved with all of them?

[2F-001]

That's cheating!

(Seriously though, Paul said he had them all, and was online, so I thought that would be a shortcut...
I don't know if any of these are painful memories or frustrations for Graham?)

[David McKinney]

There were six issues of Historic Race & Rally, the last being "Issue 6 Volume 1"

[D-Type]

Does anybody have a spare Historic Racing Volume 1 No 3. I can offer half a dozen Octanes in exchange. I reckon it's about the same quantity of useful writing.

[Graham Gauld]

Oh the pain of it all !!!

Yes, I was a contributor to Historic Race and Rally but had nothing to do with the management etc.

Regarding Historic Motor Racing we published 5 issues and I have the discs of the pages of issue 6. The financial backer pulled the plug on the magazine at very short notice and I was left to sort out the financial mess.

The one area that is often overlooked by people who are not familiar with publishing is that one of the key factors is the role of the magazine distributor. One of the major magazine distributors indicated that they would be interested in handling Historic Motor Racing but waited until exactly one month before publication of the first issue to advise that they had had a board decision and would not now take on any new magazine unless it had potential gross annual sales of £1 million! How ridiculous can you get.

Also there are so many magazine out there that bookshops want time to decide whether the mag has a future. In our case after four issues the huge Barnes and Noble outlet in the United States agreed to handle the magazine but by then it was too late.

Any new specialised magazine such as this needs to have capitalisation of around £3 million in order to produce the magazine for at least two years with no appreciable income as every potential advertiser wants his ad published in the early issues for buttons until they know the magazine is a success. You need that kind of budget to stick to your advertising rate guns.

If anyone is interested in copies of Historic Motor Racing check out my sons web site www.smrh.co.uk
and you can obtain copies of some of the issues. For issue 5 the publisher cut the print order drastically which is why there are not of these left.

[Gary C]

And thank you, Graham, for persisting and giving it a try!

[Gary C]

Thanks anyway, Graham, for persisting and keeping on trying!

[Gary C]

double post- what IS wrong with me?? lol

[MCS]

I've never heard of - or seen - these publications, but then I'd rather fallen away from the sport at that time.

Who was the publisher?

I'd be interested in seeing them (are there any on ebay, I wonder?)

Clive Richardson is responsible for the Audi magazine these days - something I always look forward to.

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by D-Type
Does anybody have a spare Historic Racing Volume 1 No 3. I can offer half a dozen Octanes in exchange. I reckon it's about the same quantity of useful writing.

Not happy about the swap at all, the HR content is too good, major article on Neil Corner's W125 plus DCN history of all the cars, plus Sebring MGC stuff, plus good Can Am article. It is what the current breed of comics, esp those with the budget , should aspire to.

Nice to know that some of the back issues are availble.

Highly recommended as a publication, was was HR&R, from what I recall.

Roger Lund..

[D-Type]

That's why I want it!

Octane generally has one half decent article per magazine, maybe two if you're lucky. Hence the quantity is comparable to one copy of Historic Racing . As to quality - that is highly subjective, but when browsing in WHS I have noticed the name of at least one TNF subscriber. So I reckon it's a fair swap ( well I would wouldn't I? )

And as it's nearly Christmas I'll throw in a copy of Motor-racing's Strangest Races - Yes I'm trying to clear a little space on my bookshelf, just in case santa has taken a hint or five.

[Tony Kaye]

What a wonderful response! All my questions answered and even replies from Graham Gould and David McKinney. Thanks, everyone.

So there were six issues of Historic Race & Rally, six of Historic Racing and five of Historic Motor Racing. And finally there is that tantalising sixth issue of the latter, which never made it to print.

Just to illustrate the kind of articles which appeared in these 17 magazines, here’s a list of articles which I took the liberty of copying from Graham’s son’s web site.

The Quiet Belgian - Paul Frere story.
The Alfa Romeo 1900 - The evolution of one of Italy’s finest racing saloons.
A Fast Bumpy Ride - Dan Gurney in the Can-Am series.
Quick Vic and the 917's -Vic Elford was the only racing driver to race every 917 model.
Porsche and the Can-Am - Bill Ourslers fascinating story.
The Lotus 15 Story
Alfa's twin-engined racer - The type A that featured two engines side by side.
Jaguars of Ole Sommer - Dane, Ole Sommer, has an enviable collection.
The Early Alta Racers - Background to the pre-war models.
Kansas City Flash - Masten Gregory article.
Forget Crocodile Dundee - Here's Frank Gardner.
Nine Day Wonder - The 1921 Italian Grand Prix.
Two Rare Ones - The De Sanctis and Bizzarini sports cars.
The Cars of Masao Ono - Remember the Kojima and Maki GP cars ?
The Charming All-Rounder - Biography of Bernard Consten.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Just a few articles from only three of the 17 magazines.

Tony P asked about the contents of issue number 2 of Historic Racing.
Jacky Ickx and Ferrari – He tells of his years with the prancing horse
Giancarlo Baghetti – The Grand Prix driver in the record books
Those Lotus Indianapolis cars – Part 2 1964-1966
The Disco Volante – Alfa Romeo’s sports racing cars of the 1950’s
Cars I have raced – by Roy Salvadori
Pininfarina Sigma – 1968 F1 concept car
Nurburgring Oldtimers – by David McKinney
Skulduggery – Doug Nye talks to Jenks, Len Terry and Count Maggi
Etc. etc. etc.

I have a duplicate copy of that issue and it’s crying out for a new home! I also have a spare copy of the fifth issue of Historic Race & Rally, I think that’s the one that Gary C needs – the one with a dozen pages on the Lotus 72. For my part I need the first issue of Historic Race & Rally.

“Oh the pain of it all.” No way Graham. The GLORY of it all.

[Alan Cox]

Having been an occasional contributor with the odd race report and photos to Historic Race and Rally and Historic Racing, I was fortunate in having complete runs of both only to acquire nicely bound copies of each at an autojumble for just £5 per volume! Days like that don't come around too often.

Never did get hold of any copies of Historic Motor Racing but the first two titles are definitely "must haves".

[Roger Clark]

I have complete runs of Historic Racing and Historic Motor Racing. They were definitely comparable with the early Automobile Historique in terms of what such a magazine should aspire to. I still believe that such a magazine, combined with Motor Sport's brand recognition and distribution connections could do surprisingly well. It never pays to underestimate the intelligence of your customers.

When Historic Motor Racing folded, all outstanding subscriptions were returned. That was not the case with a French rival, and was much appreciated.

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I still believe that such a magazine, combined with Motor Sport's brand recognition and distribution connections could do surprisingly well. It never pays to underestimate the intelligence of your customers..

With you 100% on that Roger. It is not as if there is any shortage of interesting material about which to write, and certainly no shortage of persons well qualified to write. Vintage racecar come up well every month, IMHO, as do the VSCC quarterly, in what is admittedly a niche demographic.

Perhaps Graham might think it worthwhile publishing all of those magazines on a compilation CD. i am sure there would be a market. Never underestimate... as Roger says, plus extra copies can be done on demand, quod vide Terry Walker's CD version of his book, and picture reproduction is no problem on CD

Roger Lund.

[Paul Parker]

Graham raises the same point as I did in more detail. To succeed you need more than just a good product and the shennanigans involved in getting your magazine/consumables/durables etc., onto shelves is an education.

Magazine distribution was/is not a level playing field. Where books are concerned how many people here realise that some bookshops have deals in place with wholesalers who supply all their books but place a ceiling RRP of £25 on the books.

As for my collection I will sometime in the next 6-9 months get to grips with this but I will probably retain my runs of HR&R, Supercar Classics and the better stuff. Still let's see how much space I have when the time comes.

[ianselva]

Originally posted by 2F-001
So, we've established that "Historic Racing" had six issues (Vol 1, Nos. 1-4; and Vol 2, Nos 1-2).

?

I have a spare copy of Vol 2 Iss 1 if anybody is interested in a swap

[Bjorn Kjer]

I am looking for a side in Motor mag. 17/6 1972. Any help ?

[Alan Cox]

Full set for sale here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
Full set for sale here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem



What a bargain!!

RL

[Vitesse2]

And it went to a TNFer too ....

novbubs!!

[Not his Atlas name, of course]