241 replies to this topic

[Andy Van De Burgt]

Dear all,

Every year Autosport publishes its list of the top 50 drivers of the season - from F1 to Le Mans through touring cars to GP2.

It's naturally highly subjective, so here's your chance to take issue with our selection.

50 Rinaldo Capello - 1st in ALMS, 3rd in Le Mans, 1st in Sebring and Petit Le Mans
49 Benoit Treluyer - 1st in Formula Nippon, 8th in Super GT
48 Augusto Farfus - 3rd in WTCC
47 Jorg Bergmeister - 1st in Grand-Am, 1st in ALMS (GT2), 1st in Petit Le Mans (GT2)
46 Bernd Schneider - 1st in DTM
45 Tom Kristensen - 3rd in DTM, 3rd in Le Mans, 1st in Sebring
44 Tonio Liuzzi - 19th in F1
43 Bruno Spengler - 2nd in DTM
42 Matt Kenseth - 2nd in Nextel Cup, 2nd in IROC
41 Sebastian Vettel - 2th in F3 Euroseries, 13 in Renault World Series
40 Paul di Resta - 1st in F3 Euroseries, 1st in BP Masters
39 Dani Sordo - 4th in WRC
38 Nico Rosberg - 17th in F1
37 Alex Premat - 3rd in GP2, 1st in A1GP
36 Takuma Sato - 23rd in F1
35 Tony Stewart - 11th in Nextel Cup, 1st in IROC
34 Marco Andretti - 7th in IRL, 2nd in Indy 500
33 Emmanuel Collard - 1st in LMS, 5th in Le Mans, 1st in Petit Le Mans, 7th in FIA GT2
32 Helio Castroneves - 3rd in IRL
31 Petter Solberg - 6th in WRC
30 Tony Kanaan - 6th in IRL, 5th in Indy 500
29 Jimmie Johnson - 1st in Nextel Cup, 1st in Daytona 500
28 Nelson Piquet Jr - 2nd in GP2, 4th in Le Mans (GT1)
27 Allan McNish - 1st in ALMS, 3rd in Le Mans, 1st in Sebring and Petit Le Mans
26 Justin Wilson - 2nd in Champ Car, 2nd in Daytona 24
25 Pedro de la Rosa - 11th in F1
24 AJ Allmendinger - 3rd in Champ Car, 2nd in Daytona 24
23 Andy Priaulx - 1st in WTCC
22 Juan Pablo Montoya - 8th in F1, 69th in Nextel Cup
21 Ralf Schumacher - 10th in F1
20 David Coulthard - 13th in F1
19 Sam Hornish Jr - 1st in IRL, 1st in Indy 500, 8th in IROC
18 Jacques Villeneuve - 15th in F1
17 Sebastien Bourdais - 1st in Champ Car, 1st in Sebring
16 Dan Wheldon - 2nd in IRL, 1st in Daytona 24, 4th in Indy 500
15 Felipe Massa - 3rd in F1
14 Nick Heidfeld - 9th in F1
13 Scott Dixon - 4th in IRL, 1st in Daytona
12 Robert Kubica - 16th in F1
11 Lewis Hamilton - 1st in GP2
10 Rubens Barrichello - 7th in F1
9 Jarno Trulli - 12th in F1
8 Marcus Gronholm - 2nd in WRC
7 Giancarlo Fisichella - 4th in F1
6 Mark Webber - 14th in F1
5 Jenson Button - 6th in F1
4 Kimi Raikkonen - 5th in F1
3 Sebastien Loeb - 1st in WRC
2 Michael Schumacher - 2nd in F1
1 Fernando Alonso - 1st in F1

[Cflores]

First thing that springs to mind: Massa, two wins, third in the championship, ranked #14 behind Heidfeld, Trulli, Webber, Fisichella, Button... Should be a little bit near the top don't you think?

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by Cflores
First thing that springs to mind: Massa, two wins, third in the championship, ranked #14 behind Heidfeld, Trulli, Webber, Fisichella, Button... Should be a little bit near the top don't you think?

No. He had a car that was guaranteed to give him a win or two. The only one i'd put behind him is Fisi, possibly. The others didn't. I think his position is very fair.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Where's Edd?

[selespeed]

ranked to low:
farfus
schneider
andretti
priaulx
bourdais
massa
hamilton
gronholm


ranked to high
liuzzi
sordo
rosberg
premat
solberg
de la rosa
montoya
coulthard
villeneuve
heidfeld
kubica
barrichello
trulli!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fisichella
webber
schumacher

[clampett]

Originally posted by Lifew12


No. He had a car that was guaranteed to give him a win or two. The only one i'd put behind him is Fisi, possibly. The others didn't. I think his position is very fair.

Yeah, yeah, put Fisi behind him. How dare some rate him above Webber, Trulli, Button, Ralf, Sato, Ide...

However the list makes no sense for me. Why is Webber and Trulli is that high?

[sainsburypeter]

Fisi doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the top 10. And why is Priaulx so low down despite being world champion.

[Owen]

Think JV is way too high.

[magicalonso]

Whenever Trulli was on course for a great result the car broke down (Monaco, Magny Cours, Brazil). Same thing could be said about Webber (see: Australia, Hockenheim, Monte Carlo) It is not unreasonable.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen
Think JV is way too high.

You should really post that in this thread:

http://forums.atlasf...?threadid=91887

(anyway...for once, I concur)

[jokuvaan]

Funny how different racing series are mixed together.

I dont know even half of these guys but that doesnt stop me:

Undervalued:

Marcus Gronholm
Lewis Hamilton
Pedro de la Rosa
Nico Rosberg
Bernd Schneider
Petter Solberg

Overestimated:

Giancarlo Fisichella
Jenson Button

And where's Mikko Hirvonen?!

[Owen]

Originally posted by RDM

You should really post that in this thread:

http://forums.atlasf...?threadid=91887

(anyway...for once, I concur)

You mean we agree?? I'm sorry I'll try and not let this happen again.

[Spyker MF1]

I think drivers that have won a series a far to low down when compared to people who have finished lower in a catorgorie. And 13 Scott Dixon - 4th in IRL, 1st in Daytona. and 16 Dan Wheldon - 2nd in IRL, 1st in Daytona 24, 4th in Indy 500 makes no sense to me : : : surely Wheldon should be higher than Dixon : : :

[MrAerodynamicist]

That struck me as the wrong way around too. Especially as Hornish is below the both of them, whereas I'd say Sam & Dan are definately the series two strongest drivers.

To be fair, although they frequently looked the class of the field, Dan & his pitcrew made enough mistakes to throw away the championship. Perhaps they were simply being highly critical of mistakes!

[Lorran]

I think Mark Webber is a cracking driver but i can't fathom how he can be 6th and Rosberg 38th!!!

Rosberg was a rookie and ran Webber very close and was faster than him on many occasions. Yes Rosberg made more mistakes but his car was very difficult and it was his first year.

I would reverse positions if anything.

[santori]

Webber ahead of Gronholm? *Boggles* And I know Solberg's had a rough year but thirty drivers better than him? No. Hirvonnen should be there, too.

I'm not really a NASCAR fan, but I'd rate its drivers considerably higher.

And I'd put Loeb first or second. '2nd at Le Mans', too.

[kayemod]

There's some very strange inconsistency here. This top 50, presumably the work of Andy Van De Burgt puts Mark Webber of all people at an astonishing no 6, ahead of the likes of Bernd Schneider, Tom Kristensen, Andy Priaulx, Dan Wheldon and many others who achieved far more, yet Nigel Roebuck's F1 feature elsewhere in the same issue doesn't even let Webber into his top 10. That's not too impressive out of 22 drivers, but what did Webber do to justify a higher ranking than say Fisichella or Marcus Gronholm, or even Lewis Hamilton? I'd say that as far as MW is concerned, the jury hasn't returned a verdict yet, sure he could be good, but we haven't seen too much hard evidence of that so far. Looks like there are people working at Autosport who aren't on speaking terms, I think we should be told. If we remember, the very same Andy Van De Burgt has come up with similarly indefensible rankings before. To save any of you skinflints having to rush out to buy the magazine, here's Nigel Roebuck's top 10 listing.

1 Fernando Alonso

2 Michael Schumacher

3 Kimi Raikkonen

4 Jenson Button

5 Felipe Massa

6 Giancarlo Fisichella

7 Rubens Barrichello

8 Jarno Trulli

9 Nico Rosberg

10 David Coulthard

I might move one or two of those up or down a space, but I can't really disagree with anything, my own listing would be pretty similar. Looks like I'd have a fun evening chatting to Nigel down the pub about this, but I don't think either of us would be inviting Andy Van De Burgt to join us.

[Lorran]

Originally posted by kayemod
There's some very strange inconsistency here. This top 50, presumably the work of Andy Van De Burgt puts Mark Webber of all people at an astonishing no 6, ahead of the likes of Bernd Schneider, Tom Kristensen, Andy Priaulx, Dan Wheldon and many others who achieved far more, yet Nigel Roebuck's F1 feature elsewhere in the same issue doesn't even let Webber into his top 10. That's not too impressive out of 22 drivers, but what did Webber do to justify a higher ranking than say Fisichella or Marcus Gronholm, or even Lewis Hamilton? I'd say that as far as MW is concerned, the jury hasn't returned a verdict yet, sure he could be good, but we haven't seen too much hard evidence of that so far. Looks like there are people working at Autosport who aren't on speaking terms, I think we should be told. If we remember, the very same Andy Van De Burgt has come up with similarly indefensible rankings before. To save any of you skinflints having to rush out to buy the magazine, here's Nigel Roebuck's top 10 listing.

1 Fernando Alonso

2 Michael Schumacher

3 Kimi Raikkonen

4 Jenson Button

5 Felipe Massa

6 Giancarlo Fisichella

7 Rubens Barrichello

8 Jarno Trulli

9 Nico Rosberg

10 David Coulthard

I might move one or two of those up or down a space, but I can't really disagree with anything, my own listing would be pretty similar. Looks like I'd have a fun evening chatting to Nigel down the pub about this, but I don't think either of us would be inviting Andy Van De Burgt to join us.

I must admit that i would suggest slight variations but I dont find anything objectional in Nigel's list.

[noikeee]

Trulli 9th, Ralf 21st?

I like Trulli, but he had a bad season and was overall beaten by Ralf in my opinion.

[Calorus]

Originally posted by kayemod
There's some very strange inconsistency here. This top 50, presumably the work of Andy Van De Burgt puts Mark Webber of all people at an astonishing no 6, ahead of the likes of Bernd Schneider, Tom Kristensen, Andy Priaulx, Dan Wheldon and many others who achieved far more, yet Nigel Roebuck's F1 feature elsewhere in the same issue doesn't even let Webber into his top 10. That's not too impressive out of 22 drivers, but what did Webber do to justify a higher ranking than say Fisichella or Marcus Gronholm, or even Lewis Hamilton? I'd say that as far as MW is concerned, the jury hasn't returned a verdict yet, sure he could be good, but we haven't seen too much hard evidence of that so far. Looks like there are people working at Autosport who aren't on speaking terms, I think we should be told. If we remember, the very same Andy Van De Burgt has come up with similarly indefensible rankings before. To save any of you skinflints having to rush out to buy the magazine, here's Nigel Roebuck's top 10 listing.

1 Fernando Alonso

2 Michael Schumacher

3 Kimi Raikkonen

4 Jenson Button

5 Felipe Massa

6 Giancarlo Fisichella

7 Rubens Barrichello

8 Jarno Trulli

9 Nico Rosberg

10 David Coulthard

I might move one or two of those up or down a space, but I can't really disagree with anything, my own listing would be pretty similar. Looks like I'd have a fun evening chatting to Nigel down the pub about this, but I don't think either of us would be inviting Andy Van De Burgt to join us.

Swap Trulli with Schumacher and I'd concur. But it's still junk, really...

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by kayemod
There's some very strange inconsistency here. This top 50, presumably the work of Andy Van De Burgt puts Mark Webber of all people at an astonishing no 6, ahead of the likes of Bernd Schneider, Tom Kristensen, Andy Priaulx, Dan Wheldon and many others who achieved far more, yet Nigel Roebuck's F1 feature elsewhere in the same issue doesn't even let Webber into his top 10. That's not too impressive out of 22 drivers, but what did Webber do to justify a higher ranking than say Fisichella or Marcus Gronholm, or even Lewis Hamilton? I'd say that as far as MW is concerned, the jury hasn't returned a verdict yet, sure he could be good, but we haven't seen too much hard evidence of that so far. Looks like there are people working at Autosport who aren't on speaking terms, I think we should be told. If we remember, the very same Andy Van De Burgt has come up with similarly indefensible rankings before. To save any of you skinflints having to rush out to buy the magazine, here's Nigel Roebuck's top 10 listing.

1 Fernando Alonso

2 Michael Schumacher

3 Kimi Raikkonen

4 Jenson Button

5 Felipe Massa

6 Giancarlo Fisichella

7 Rubens Barrichello

8 Jarno Trulli

9 Nico Rosberg

10 David Coulthard

Andrew makes it quite clear that these lists are subject to personal bias, and I don;t believe he is solely responsible for the top 50 at all. Likewise, Nigel's is his personal top ten, and does not have to toe the line with magazines top 50. If it dod, it would be absolutely pointless publishing the two.

Neither is saying that we have to agree with them, and simply becauseAndy's does not tally with Nigels does not say to the intelligent reader 'oh, they're not speaking'!

I might move one or two of those up or down a space, but I can't really disagree with anything, my own listing would be pretty similar. Looks like I'd have a fun evening chatting to Nigel down the pub about this, but I don't think either of us would be inviting Andy Van De Burgt to join us.

So, simply because you disagree with Andrews (or what you assume to be Andrews) picks you would not wish to associate with him? Let me ask, do you only associate with people you agree with on other subjects? I would say an evening down the pub with Nigel, and that list as the subject, would produce a very interesting conversation between the two of you along the lines of 'Nigel, I agree with your list' to which he would reply 'Thanks. Erm, nice weather.....'

With Andrew, however, you might have something to discuss.

I think your life must be very, very drab.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Lifew12
With Andrew, however, you might have something to discuss. [/B]

No, I think I'd be wasting my time, same as I probably would with you.

[KWSN - DSM]

This is truly the list of apples and oranges. We can't even agree on the best 5 in any one series, how are we going to rate all the various series?

For what it is worth I agree with 1, 2 and 3 on the Andy list. From then on I am as biased as everyone else.

1. Fernando Alonso
2. Michael Schumacher
3. Sebastian Loeb
4. Filipe Massa
5. Lewis Hamilton
6. Sam Hornish Jr
7. Robert Kubica
8. Jenson Button
9. Kimi Räikkönen
10. Jimmie Johnson

I can't make anything longer than 10, and even that is a stretch.

[liverpoolfc]

In my top fifty, I would have to put Mikko Hirvoren in the top 20! Can't believe he's not even mentioned.
Also, I would put Michael top of the list for going out in the last race with such a gritty performance.
Webber should be moved down significantly to me. He's not done much special this year apart from the Monaco GP. Rosberg was far too close to him i.m.o.
Dixon is too far up, and Piquet Jr a bit too far down for my liking. Oh yeah, and Andy Prialax should be way further up - doing the double shouldn't move him down - it should move him up.

Apart from that though, good selection.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by kayemod


No, I think I'd be wasting my time, same as I probably would with you.

Why, because you think you would disagree with me, too?

How terrible it must be to spend time in the company of one whose views you disagree with, especially if, like you obviously, you are so unwilling to hear the reasons why those utterly disagreeable decisions were made!

Instead of dismissing Andrews list in the totally offhand way that you have, have you considered asking him (I know, it must be a new concept to you) why, and how, he came to that conclusion, and beginning a debate, a discussion on the matter, much in the way you would with Nigel, very briefly, in the pub?

After all, thats what he posted the list for in the first place.

[Calorus]

The real top 3 is:

1. Alonso
1. Loeb
1. Priaulx


Everyone else failed.

[ezequiel]

You should consider Matías Rossi for that list. He won the TC2000 championship this year (considered as one of the 4 best touring car series in the world), Alain Menu said that he doesn't understand how this boy is not driving in Europe and he was also praised by WTCC Chevrolet boss (he would even being considered for a seat next year)

[Andy Van De Burgt]

kayemond,

Your ignorance of the editorial process of the magazine is amusing.

In point of fact, the list was the work of a number of people, with the reporters of all our championships consulted in the process. My part in this was to rank the GP2 drivers, as I've covered the series since it started.

You also accuse me of having written similarly indefensible lists before and that is simply not true. I have posted lists on this site that have also been published in the magazine, but none of these works have been written by me. I am the editor, I commission experts to write them for me. They get the brief, I try to generate feedback on them.

Fortunately I have the pleasure of lunching with Nigel Roebuck on an irregular basis and while it's true that we don't agree on everything, the conversations are always highly enjoyable affairs. They would be truely dull if I just nodded with agreementb after all.

All of these lists have to be subjective, they also have to be a bit of fun, so chill out and enjoy the debate.

I'll wait for a bit more feedback before defending the indefensible on some of these rankings...

[Calorus]

Absolutely MORTIFIED that Trulli's ahead of Schumacher.

[Group B]

Originally posted by paranoik0
Trulli 9th, Ralf 21st?

I like Trulli, but he had a bad season and was overall beaten by Ralf in my opinion.

Only the JT fan club could be him 12 places ahead of Ralf; at best he was about level, and I'd say behind.

[mclarensmps]

Shneider 46th is laughable...

And Gronholm should be right up there in the top 10...

[Calorus]

Originally posted by The Big Guns
Shneider 46th is laughable...

And Gronholm should be right up there in the top 10...

Yup, I think Priaulx, too.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by The Big Guns
Shneider 46th is laughable...

And Gronholm should be right up there in the top 10...

You still there Andy Van De Burgt? I think comments like these are putting me well ahead on points.

[Ciao]

Webber 6TH!!!!!!

He better destroy DC at RB, because his status as the most hyper never was in F1 cannot last for ever. Ok, he is fast, but didn't really destroy young Rosberg and ranking him 6th with no results (even if Williams is mostly to blame, who developed and tested that car? Alonso? ) is ludicrous. This is the most absurd of all the rankings in this list. I mean how did this bloke get ahead of:

19 Sam Hornish Jr - 1st in IRL, 1st in Indy 500, 8th in IROC
17 Sebastien Bourdais - 1st in Champ Car, 1st in Sebring
16 Dan Wheldon - 2nd in IRL, 1st in Daytona 24, 4th in Indy 500
15 Felipe Massa - 3rd in F1
111 Lewis Hamilton - 1st in GP2

Please, illuminate me!!!!!!

[JForce]

Without listing the criteria used (if any), the list is meaningless unless you take it completely at face value, the "best" drivers of 2006.

In either case, it is an absolutely appalling list.

[Calorus]

Originally posted by JForce
Without listing the criteria used (if any), the list is meaningless unless you take it completely at face value, the "best" drivers of 2006.

In either case, it is an absolutely appalling list.

I agree - however the fact that the Trulli and Schumaher are placed as they are - in spite of the fact that they were objectively judged in identical machinery this year is most damning.

[Group B]

Would be interesting to hear the compiler's justification for JT/RS; it's clearly the one that most bothers most people.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ralf Schumacher is arguably disliked by association, and the fact that he is of a rather morose / petulant nature makes him harder to "like".

He is however in my opinion a vastly underrated driver, obviously no Michael Schumacher. But surely a top 10 driver of the 2007 grid.

He has "handled" Trulli two seasons in a row, and basically held his own against Juan Pablo, does not have the ultimate speed of Juan Pablo, does not have freakish one lap speed of Jarno.

But a much much better racer than both of them.

I can think of no reason that he and Jarno are rated as they are on this list, compared to each other. And I can think of no reason that the expert hired by Andy, which must be a regular F1 contributor, to look at the 2006 season, and think that Jarno in any way outperformed Ralf.

Mark Webber's position is incomprehensible.

[MortenF1]

Roebuck's list makes sense I'd say apart from Rosberg being in ninth, and no Mark Webber!! Very odd I have to say.

(Edit- ....thinking about it a little more, I would also say that Barrichello is put too close to Button. His performance did not warrant that IMO.)


About the top 50 list, obviously I think that DC should be higher up, and the same goes for Ralf Schumacher, who had a very good season, better than Trulli, and that's taking Trulli's mishaps into account.
Webber is where he should be I think; sixth seems about right in that list.

[Calorus]

Originally posted by race addicted
Roebuck's list makes sense I'd say apart from Rosberg being in ninth, and no Mark Webber!! Very odd I have to say.

About the top 50 list, obviously I think that DC should be higher up, and the same goes for Ralf Schumacher, who had a very good season, better than Trulli, and that's taking Trulli's mishaps into account.
Webber is where he should be I think; sixth seems about right in that list.

Maybe we should try this the other way 'round...

Anyone think of a good reason for JT to be above RS, AT ALL?

[Group B]

Er, alphabetically? fluency in Italian? age? hair length?

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by Calorus


Maybe we should try this the other way 'round...

Anyone think of a good reason for JT to be above RS, AT ALL?

No not really, not since it is a "top 50 - 2006" list.

[Riker!]

Originally posted by Lorran
I think Mark Webber is a cracking driver but i can't fathom how he can be 6th and Rosberg 38th!!!

Rosberg was a rookie and ran Webber very close and was faster than him on many occasions. Yes Rosberg made more mistakes but his car was very difficult and it was his first year.

I would reverse positions if anything.

Did you even watch the races this year?? faster than him on many occasions??? what drugs are you on???

[KWSN - DSM]

Webber is to high on the list, Rosberg to low. But Webber did have a better season than Rosberg.

However the Jarno / Ralf ranking indicate that this is not all that is needed to be the better placed driver.

[LB]

Trulli is way way way way too high, Seabass is probably too low and Rick Kelly should be in there somewhere. Nascar is under represented too.

[JForce]

Craig L should be on there, ahead of Kelly, he simply drove better than him all year.

[rghojai]

From an American perspective.... Say what you will about NASCAR and I've my share of issues with it, but it is a damned long, tough season on a fairly diverse collection of tracks and extremely competitive. It strikes me as warped that J. Johnson is rated so low--and behind any number of people who did relatively little in terms of titles or major wins.

[V8 Fireworks]

MW's position does seem rather generous.

And Gronholm's should be higher, the Focus is good but not that good, Gronholm drives the rally car like hell and only he can battle with Loeb.... some mistakes are likely with those two driving at such a higher level than other WRC drivers.


I don't agree with Calorus that only FIA World champions should be the top 3...... Are there not many complaints of how rubbish championships are when FIA is stuffing around with them?

Do World Tourers drive like the British tourers, or anything like the DTM? 2L 4/5cyl is a limited market of car...... the world touring format could just as easy be 3.0L 5/6 cyl medium not medium-small class cars so add as extra 250 kg and it would be a whole different ball game. I'm told the World tourers don't crash each other out as much as the British tourers..... very different styles of racing so the world champion of a mainly European title is hardly the champion of all touring cars in the world. Whereas for F3/Gp2/F1 ladder open-wheelers it could truly be said that F1 is the true world title for this class.

[slapstick]

Fisichella's and Massa's positions should be swapped on the list. Loeb could be second or even first but suffers from the sad state of WRC.

[Pikachu Racing]

Kevin Harvick isn't on top 50 list. He won 5 times finishing 4th in the championship along with 9 wins in the Busch series and winning the championship. He took a more grueling schedule driving a combine 71 races competing full time in both series. In few races he have to fly from race to race because NASCAR and Busch were at different tracks. He deserves to be in top 10.