19 replies to this topic

[yr]

I was just thinking that usually when teams have had test sessions shortly before GP weekend in any given track, it usually means boring races because everybody has found good set ups before race weekend even starts, so its only a kind of "fine tuning" in friday for everyone, qual and race then usually have only few or none surprises because fastest cars line up in front and run away in race.

This year all teams have 3 hours to find perfect set up in friday and they dont even need to look after their engines because friday engines are not the engines that will be used in saturday and sunday. Maybe I make a big deal out of nothing, but i worries me.

Your thoughts, please.

[917k]

My psychic is on vacation, so I cannot answer this question.

[FNG]

Could also work opposite. All teams will be on the knife edge ready to go rather than the odd team dropping the ball leaving one or two to walk off into the distance.

[sainsburypeter]

I think you're probably right yr. The new Friday test day, while good for fans on the day will give the teams a whole lot more information than in previous years in which to perfect setups and limit the possibility for 'surprises' come race day.

Its been on my mind that Friday form will be a much much more significant indicator than in recent times - especially now that teams are on one tyre and any variation in temperature come race day will probaly affect all teams the same.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by FNG
Could also work opposite. All teams will be on the knife edge ready to go rather than the odd team dropping the ball leaving one or two to walk off into the distance.

I like that kind of races (well prepared & closely fought). It's more professional, question of doing a good job, and not just lucking into it. But people claim it's boring and there is not enough overtaking.

[yr]

Originally posted by FNG
Could also work opposite. All teams will be on the knife edge ready to go rather than the odd team dropping the ball leaving one or two to walk off into the distance.

Hmm,I dont think it will work to opposite direction. I remember reading interviews before and after Barcelona GP where drivers/team bosses said that "it was/will be a boring race because everyone had/will test here so much, so everyone had/will have perfect set up."

Perfect set up means less driver errors and easier to drive a car closer to its limits. That means, drivers role will be lesser and cars role will be bigger... dont need a psychic or crystal ball to understand that.

[yr]

Originally posted by micra_k10

I like that kind of races (well prepared & closely fought). It's more professional, question of doing a good job, and not just lucking into it. But people claim it's boring and there is not enough overtaking.

Well, for sure races will be well prepared by all teams from now on but I´m not so sure about closely fought, that was the whole point of this thread.

[Gemini]

We remember the times when they had two hours on Friday and some teams had even 4 hours (?) if they signed testing limit. The racing was not that much different.

What can be noticed is the fact that there are much less offs in recent years then in past when Friday offs or even heavy shunts were nothing unusual. I think that change has more to do quantity and quality of pre-race simulation (that teams are doing now in comparison to let say 7 years ago), rather that with lenght of the Friday sessions.

I agree it will make them better prepared for the session. But the difference to very recent years is that they are on spec tyres now. When you don't come to the Grand Prix with a tyre that was specifically designed for your car and this circuit it means you have more job to be done with the car to dial both together.

My feeling is whatever it is: 3 hours or 3 laps... the outcome will be that leading teams will have gazilion of gigabytes analyzed prior to weekend, and they will always end up better.

What I like, besides obvious surplus for on track spectator, is fact that if there are technical problems with the car there is more time to fix it, so particular driver is not screwed.

On a side note: new format should really help rookies.

Last year rookies had sometimes really, really few laps to get their **** together prior they were send of for qualifying.

[jokuvaan]

Could new tyres provide more overtaking?

[yr]

Originally posted by Gemini
We remember the times when they had two hours on Friday and some teams had even 4 hours (?) if they signed testing limit. The racing was not that much different.

What can be noticed is the fact that there are much less offs in recent years then in past when Friday offs or even heavy shunts were nothing unusual. I think that change has more to do quantity and quality of pre-race simulation (that teams are doing now in comparison to let say 7 years ago), rather that with lenght of the Friday sessions.

I agree it will make them better prepared for the session. But the difference to very recent years is that they are on spec tyres now. When you don't come to the Grand Prix with a tyre that was specifically designed for your car and this circuit it means you have more job to be done with the car to dial both together.

My feeling is whatever it is: 3 hours or 3 laps... the outcome will be that leading teams will have gazilion of gigabytes analyzed prior to weekend, and they will always end up better.

What I like, besides obvious surplus for on track spectator, is fact that if there are technical problems with the car there is more time to fix it, so particular driver is not screwed.

On a side note: new format should really help rookies.

Last year rookies had sometimes really, really few laps to get their **** together prior they were send of for qualifying.

Lots of good points there.

Yeah, rookies will gain alot, three hours to get to know the track and find set ups. Thats huge improvement to last year when, for example, Nico had something like ten laps behind him in a track that was unfamiliar to him when qualification started.

[Gemini]

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Could new tyres provide more overtaking?

I can think of the one way in which theorethically it might improve overtaking. The braking distances should get longer with these new tyres. I could also expect that with less top power available from engines (19,000 rpm limit) teams might try one click less of downforce. This should also increase braking zones (but not comparable impact as from harder tyre).

But general obstacle in following car in front will remain as it is. Even more so as proportions of aerodynamic and mechanic grip might move away from mechanical.

So all in all my bet is that we won't see any improvement in overtaking.

[metz]

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Could new tyres provide more overtaking?

They didn't in 2005... :

[Clatter]

Originally posted by yr


Well, for sure races will be well prepared by all teams from now on but I´m not so sure about closely fought, that was the whole point of this thread.

I'm not sure we will see much difference from a spectator point of view.

None of the changes that have been made in the past have resulted in the championship being any more or less closely fought. It all comes down to the teams, if 2 or more get their cars right, then we will have a close fought contest, if not then someone will walk away with it.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by yr
I was just thinking that usually when teams have had test sessions shortly before GP weekend in any given track, it usually means boring races because everybody has found good set ups before race weekend even starts, so its only a kind of "fine tuning" in friday for everyone, qual and race then usually have only few or none surprises because fastest cars line up in front and run away in race.

This year all teams have 3 hours to find perfect set up in friday and they dont even need to look after their engines because friday engines are not the engines that will be used in saturday and sunday. Maybe I make a big deal out of nothing, but i worries me.

Your thoughts, please.

You're right, evidence (as you said) suggests it. Unfortunately racing is not all that is affected negatively. It also means that less adaptible driver (and teams) get closer to the better ones in terms of getting near to the car's limit. Similarly, it will be easier for rookies this year compared to last year. Last year was especially tough for Nico Rosberg because Williams ran so little during practice. This year the rookies will have plenty of track time. I don't like it. I like it better when drivers (including rookies) are really challenged to find a good enough setup quickly. Not only does it put more emphasis on driver feedback/setup skills, but also seat-of-the-pants driving (due to less than optimal setups drivers are forced to compensate with raw skill behind the wheel). F1 2007 will be easier than before.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by yr
I was just thinking that usually when teams have had test sessions shortly before GP weekend in any given track, it usually means boring races because everybody has found good set ups before race weekend even starts, so its only a kind of "fine tuning" in friday for everyone, qual and race then usually have only few or none surprises because fastest cars line up in front and run away in race.

This year all teams have 3 hours to find perfect set up in friday and they dont even need to look after their engines because friday engines are not the engines that will be used in saturday and sunday. Maybe I make a big deal out of nothing, but i worries me.

Your thoughts, please.

Didnt you watch F1 in the 90s? or 80s? Racing doesnt need gimmicks to be great unless your brain dead.

[Tomerell]

Didnt you watch F1 in the 90s? or 80s? Racing doesnt need gimmicks to be great unless your brain dead.

You are absolutely right, just get rid of all the stupid and complex rules where FIA tries to organice an "interesting" grid.
I loved the "old" way of free engine rule, free practice sessions on Friday and Saturday, free 1 hour qualifying and free 1 hour warmup before the race. This limited the luck out of the game, wich plays too big role in the race preparation at the moment...

[HBoss]

If we have 17 races like the last Spanish or British GPs, yeps.

[Owen]

Originally posted by Tomerell


You are absolutely right, just get rid of all the stupid and complex rules where FIA tries to organice an "interesting" grid.
I loved the "old" way of free engine rule, free practice sessions on Friday and Saturday, free 1 hour qualifying and free 1 hour warmup before the race. This limited the luck out of the game, wich plays too big role in the race preparation at the moment...

The bit that really grates is the engine change - drop ten places rule.

[Tomerell]

The bit that really grates is the engine change, drop ten places rule

You could not be moore right The 2005 WDC fight is the best example of that rules efect

[WACKO]

There's a reasoning in the fact that all teams will now line-up with the same tyres, the differences will be smaller and hence there would be less overtaking. Going back to 1999 and 2000 however, the last two pre-tyre war seasons, those were very competitive and over-all quite exciting (especially 2000). With only one tyre supplyer the nuances will be smaller, so it will be much more a question of managing the tyres and maximizing your strategy. Considering, engine powers will hardly differ through the limitation, small differences in setup may have a huge impact, so that overtaking should still be possible.