39 replies to this topic

[MPea3]

In today's local paper, the Atlanta Urinal & Constipation (okay, Journal & Constitution), journalist Rick Minter writes a story about Toyota's entry into NASCAR. In the article, he says "The last time a foreign make (an MG) competed in a Cup race was in August 1963."

What??? Is this true? I assume what he means by "Cup race" is NASCAR's premier division.

I tried a TNF search, but it won't allow a search for a word of less than 3 letters.

[ensign14]

Well, some foreign marques did participate in Grand National races in the 50s, on the road courses; indeed Al Keller won one in a Jag in 1954 with various Austin Healeys and MGs and Morgans in the field. Can't find an MG as late as 1963 though.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by MPea3
In today's local paper, the Atlanta Urinal & Constipation (okay, Journal & Constitution), journalist Rick Minter writes a story about Toyota's entry into NASCAR. In the article, he says "The last time a foreign make (an MG) competed in a Cup race was in August 1963."

What??? Is this true? I assume what he means by "Cup race" is NASCAR's premier division.

It's true!

And it was in NASCAR's premier division (then known as Grand National).

Of all places, it was at Bowman-Gray Stadium's quarter mile paved oval. As I recall, there were two or three "foreign" entries, which were quite uncompetitive. I'll check the Fielden volume, or perhaps someone will beat me to it.

I wonder if Mr. Minter (and some others) are actually using the press accessible only NASCAR data I read about. If so, good. If not, it's even more impressive

[RTH]

What model was it and do we have any pictures ?

[ensign14]

Full results

Smokey Cook's only other NASCAR start was same venue, same marque (same car?) three years earlier - he completed precisely one lap. There were a few more unAmerican entries but similarly unsuccessful. (Although note Joe Weatherly in a Valiant.)

[CoulthardD]

Details of the "Liquid Suspension MG Special" can be found here!

http://www.mgcars.or...ws/news476.html

DC

[CoulthardD]

I've just thought... that's not NASCAR is it?

DC

[HistoricMustang]

Old Smokey Cook had a rough time in the little MG.

Thirteen total laps in two different NASCAR events.

Henry

http://racing-refere...ver?id=cooksm01

[HDonaldCapps]

The Bowman-Gray Stadium events tended to be, er, unique even for NASCAR.

Utter, complete lunacy and usually far more entertaining than you would ever expect. And, not a bad seat in the house....

It was a TD in the 1960 event, but not sure if it was the same car in the 1963 race. However, I will put this on my list of items to check when I go to ASU later this year. I want to say that there are at least several pictures of the Smokey Cook MG in the rags that covered this event.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by ensign14
Full results

Smokey Cook's only other NASCAR start was same venue, same marque (same car?) three years earlier - he completed precisely one lap. There were a few more unAmerican entries but similarly unsuccessful. (Although note Joe Weatherly in a Valiant.)

Obviously I confused the 1960 and 1963 events. Thanks ensign14 for posting that. I should have remembered the '60 event as the one with multiple entries and '63 being just the MG. I still have great recall (and, besides, I don't want anyone thinking I'm perfect ).

I'll bring up another one that hasn't come up. In addition to the road races, there were some "foreign" makes in a NASCAR GN race on the dirt mile circle at Langhorne. Off the top of my head, at least one Jaguar.

[Rosemayer]

Did anyone have any luck finding a picture?

Cheers Rosey

[Hugewally]

The announcers on TV all week have been asking if anyone out in TV land has a picture of the MG as after all these years, no one seems too...

BTW - The Bowman-Gray Stadium track started life as what most of us would know as a gym class running track...

[canon1753]

I "raced" this track in ICR2. The word "tight" has a new definition. IIRC the track started as a running track around the high school football (American football) field. They used to run a Busch series race up until a few years ago.

[Todd]

Originally posted by ensign14
There were a few more unAmerican entries but similarly unsuccessful. (Although note Joe Weatherly in a Valiant.)

Weatherly's Valiant was a US Plymouth like this one.

[HistoricMustang]

The announcer$ on the Great American Race last evening mentioned that a photograph of the MG has not been found.

Of course the are not aware of TNF..............surely we can beat them to the punch!

And, speaking of the Great American Race, funny how the yellow was not displayed in Mark's situation. NA$CAR simply threw him out with the dish water!

Henry

[WDH74]

Originally posted by Hugewally
The announcers on TV all week have been asking if anyone out in TV land has a picture of the MG as after all these years, no one seems too...

BTW - The Bowman-Gray Stadium track started life as what most of us would know as a gym class running track...

Wasn't Bowman-Gray still in use for track and field events while it was being used for automobile racing? I mean, the running lanes were still painted on and whatnot!

Come to think of it, if an MG was going to do at all well in a Grand National event, Bowman-Gray would be the place for it to happen!

-William

[Todd]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
The announcer$ on the Great American Race last evening mentioned that a photograph of the MG has not been found.

Of course the are not aware of TNF..............surely we can beat them to the punch!

And, speaking of the Great American Race, funny how the yellow was not displayed in Mark's situation. NA$CAR simply threw him out with the dish water!

Henry

From what I understand, position when the yellow comes out is now determined by transponders read at a plethora of locations around the track. By the time people were wrecking, Harvick's car was already ahead of Martin's, so it wouldn't have effected the winner of the race, just the positions of some of those behind them.

[Jim Thurman]

Maybe we should change this to the Bowman-Gray Stadium thread.

No BGN or NASCAR touring series races at BGS after the short lived Grand National East in 1972 & 1973. Modifieds (yes, the open wheel cars) have been the featured weekly class.

The Grand National (now Cup) series raced there many times through 1971 and the Grand American (Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, Javelins, Cougars) raced there, once televised on ABC's "Wide World of Sports". I still recall watching that race. Max Berrier won.

I don't think BGS had running lanes, since it was being paved in 1947. At least by 1970-71 with the Grand American race it sure didn't.

I don't think many people realize how many American short tracks there were (are) like Bowman-Gray. The first races I went to were at Orange Show Stadium, a 1/4 mile around a football field in San Bernardino, California. Orange Show stopped hosting football games many years ago, but is still in use for racing. In the Midget days, many race tracks utilized stadium running tracks. There also were some odd shaped tracks around baseball diamonds. Jalopies and then Stock Cars came along and made use of the same tracks.

The fairgrounds 1/2 mile at Calistoga, California was one of the strangest I attended. The high school football field sat behind the pits, which were along the front straight. If that wasn't enough, there was a hole of a golf course adjacent to the football field (between turn 3 and the field).

All ovals are the same?...I think not!

[Hugewally]

I remember watching that race on TV too...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by WDH74


Wasn't Bowman-Gray still in use for track and field events while it was being used for automobile racing? I mean, the running lanes were still painted on and whatnot!

Still is. Bowman-Gray is the home stadium for Winston-Salem State U's football team, and runs a weekly racing card in season as well. Eastern-style modifieds, street stocks, and "stadium stocks." In the '50s and '60s, when NASCAR's Grand National series raced there two and three times per year, the stadium was the football home of Wake Forest University.

[Rosemayer]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by HistoricMustang
The announcer$ on the Great American Race last evening mentioned that a photograph of the MG has not been found.

Of course the are not aware of TNF..............surely we can beat them to the punch!

And, speaking of the Great American Race, funny how the yellow was not displayed in Mark's situation. NA$CAR simply threw him out with the dish water!

Henry

Henry I could not agree more as do other fans.

Poll ResultsThe 500's final caution flag:
Came out at the right time 22%
Was thrown too late 57%
Shouldn't have been thrown 21%

12770 Total Votes

[ggnagy]

In Gordon Eliot White's _Lost Race Tracks_ book, there is a photo of a oval laid out at Chicago's Soldier Field.

[Rosemayer]

1956 Soldier Field NASCAR Race won by Fred Lorenzen in a 1956 Ford

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by ggnagy
In Gordon Eliot White's _Lost Race Tracks_ book, there is a photo of a oval laid out at Chicago's Soldier Field.

Some remarkably well known U.S. stadia have been used for motorsports.

Soldier Field hosted weekly racing in the late 40's/early 50's, promoted by Andy Granatelli (!). Later a NASCAR race and finally some USAC Stock races in 1968.

A major Track Roadster race was held at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena (won by Manny Ayulo).

After the Giants baseball club moved to San Francisco, the Polo Grounds in New York had a paved oval for a year or two.

Even hallowed Yankee Stadium had a cinder oval for Motorcycle races.

War Memorial Stadium in Buffalo, Balboa Stadium in San Diego...and, of course, the Los Angeles Coliseum hosted a couple of Midget events.

[bpratt]

Here's a link to some Soldier Field (Chicago) information:
http://www.kalracing...d_Main_Page.htm

Also came across the results of a NASCAR sports car race at Virginia Beach Speedway (Virginia, of course), April 17, 1955. Race won by Fred Pfisterer in an Austin-Healey. Also included MG 1500, Thunderbird, Jaguar 120, MG-TD, Volkswagen (!), and a couple specials. Information from the July, 1955 Official Racing Guide, a short-lived magazine put out by the editors of Speed Age.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by bpratt
Here's a link to some Soldier Field (Chicago) information:
http://www.kalracing...d_Main_Page.htm

Also came across the results of a NASCAR sports car race at Virginia Beach Speedway (Virginia, of course), April 17, 1955. Race won by Fred Pfisterer in an Austin-Healey. Also included MG 1500, Thunderbird, Jaguar 120, MG-TD, Volkswagen (!), and a couple specials. Information from the July, 1955 Official Racing Guide, a short-lived magazine put out by the editors of Speed Age.

More Soldier Field:

NASCAR has raced on mud, wood and airport runways. Darlington is shaped like an egg. North Wilkesboro had one straightaway going uphill and another going down. So, what exactly are the top five strangest venues in NASCAR history?

5. McCormick Field, Asheville, N.C.
The home of the Asheville Tourists of the South Atlantic League (current Class A affiliate of the Colorado Rockies) hosted a Cup race on July 12, 1958. A quarter-mile asphalt track was constructed around the baseball diamond that had been played on by Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and Jackie Robinson.
Fifteen cars survived the preliminary heats to move on to the points-paying feature, including Lee Petty... barely. Petty went over the slight banking after a nudge from Cotton Owens, crashing into the third-base dugout. Petty recovered to finish fourth in the final race, behind Jim Paschal, Owens and Rex White.


4. Middle Georgia Raceway, Macon, Ga.
This half-mile paved oval welcomed the NASCAR big leagues nine times between 1966 and 1971, four of those races were run by Richard Petty, two by Bobby Allison and one each by David Pearson and Bobby Isaac — all Cup champions.
In 1968, government agents raided the racetrack as part of a major illegal liquor sting. A secret door located in the ticket booth led to a ladder, which descended 35 feet to another hidden entrance. That trap door led to a 150-foot tunnel, which ended at a cave beneath the track infield. Inside the cave was a gigantic moonshine still, which was promptly shut down and the track owner was sent to the slammer.

The race, however, was run as planned and won by Pearson en route to his second series title.


3. Soldier Field, Chicago
Ordinal out of range
The home of Da Bears since 1971 hosted exactly one NASCAR race on July 21, 1956, on a half-mile asphalt track that wrapped around the field.
Fireball Roberts outlasted Jim Paschal and Ralph Moody, the legendary mechanic who passed away on Wednesday at the age of 86.

What's so bizarre about all of this? Nothing. But the fate of track is in a league all by itself. According to famed NASCAR historian Greg Fielden, "The Soldier Field track was torn out of the stadium in 1970 following protests by hippies who objected to city financing of auto racing." Damn hippies.


2. Portland Speedway, Portland, Oregon
This half-mile was home to seven Cup races — four in 1956 and three in 1957. West coast hero Eddie Pagan won there twice, but was far from the biggest star on display at the fairgrounds track.
The oval was also a drive-in movie theater, with cars parking in the infield and a giant screen sitting behind the backstretch. When the Craftsman Truck Series raced at Portland from 1995 to '98, they had to race around a manhole cover that was located off the exit of Turn 4.

"I used it as part of my line," said 1997 winner Rich Bickle . "If I could hit that cover with the left front coming off 4, I knew I was in the groove."

Let's just hope the boys from Macon didn't have a still under there.


1. Langhorne Speedway, Langhorne, Pa.
Like Pocono, Langhorne was located in the Keystone State, but this was certainly no triangle. The one-mile dirt track located just outside of Philadelphia was a perfectly round circle. Not oval... circle. No straights. Just continuous turns for 150 and sometimes 250 laps. It makes me dizzy just to type it.
The track had two nicknames: "The Big Left Turn" and "The Track That Ate The Heroes." Built on swampland, underground creeks kept the surface constantly wet. When temperatures rose each summer, that mud dried up and developed huge canyon-like cracks. To make matters worse, just past the start-finish line, the track took a steep downhill route, known among drivers as "Puke Alley". NASCAR left after racing there from 1949 to 1957. Stock car and Indy Car drivers alike started skipping Langhorne due to safety concerns, which actually got worse after the track was paved in 1965.

[Buford]

We ran our Quarter Midgets at Soldier Field in an exhibition one time in the 50s.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buford
We ran our Quarter Midgets at Soldier Field in an exhibition one time in the 50s.

Sounds like it might have been on my mum's 32nd birthday...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


So, what exactly are the top five strangest venues in NASCAR history?

Thanks for the mention of McCormick Field, good one. Old-school minor-league ball park, all wood. Asheville's Negro League team played there. They built a new ballpark on the site of the old one I think it was about 20 years ago.

There was a dog track in NC up near the VA line, nearly to VA Beach where NASCAR Grand National ran, can't remember the name anymore...anyone?

How about the the strangest-named race track? Occoneechee Speedway over in Hillsboro, NC... name was later changed to Orange Speedway. Bill France Sr. owned it.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Buford
We ran our Quarter Midgets at Soldier Field in an exhibition one time in the 50s.

Did Andy tell you to take out Pistone?

[Buford]

My recollection is slim. I know I saw both stock cars and midgets there. Don't remember what event we ran intermission.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Did Andy tell you to take out Pistone?

LOL.

Old timers have told me stories of the golden age of midget racing in the late '40s, where they would race at Solider Field on week nights in front of 30,000 people.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Did Andy tell you to take out Pistone?

Jim, you will be glad to know that "Tiger" is being added to the Augusta Monument. But, perhaps you are not refering to the gentleman that drove the best looking car in NASCAR history - that beautiful '59 T-Bird.

Also, interesting to see here at TNF that every once in a while a thread takes its own personality and has a wreck. Kind of refreshing!

Henry

[bpratt]

I seem to remember hearing Tiger Tom Pistone interviewed, probably on the old TNN network around 1998 (NASCAR's 50th), or maybe I read it somewhere, but anyway, Tiger said that Andy's G.'s rule of thumb at Soldier Field was that if you were leading the white flag lap, no matter how big a lead, you were not to win that race. Everything had to be close, fantastic, unbelievable, sort of like what NASCAR wants now.

(Oh yeah, the soft corner at Langhorne I believe was called "Puke Hollow", not "alley".)

[William Gilbert]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman

Of all places, it was at Bowman-Gray Stadium's quarter mile paved oval.

I don't think it happened. Check the record at http://www.racing-re...o/tracks?id=085

[William Gilbert]

Originally posted by ensign14
Well, some foreign marques did participate in Grand National races in the 50s, on the road courses; indeed Al Keller won one in a Jag in 1954 with various Austin Healeys and MGs and Morgans in the field.

Race results at http://www.racing-re...954-18&series=W

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by William Gilbert
I don't think it happened.

Sorry, I am obviously missing something here....

[William Gilbert]

I don't find a MG winning any Nascar race using the resources at http://www.racing-re...o/tracks?id=085 ...bill

[MPea3]

Originally posted by William Gilbert
I don't find a MG winning any Nascar race using the resources at http://www.racing-re...o/tracks?id=085 ...bill

I don't think anyone said the MG won, just that it participated.

[Jim Thurman]

The links in ensign14's post (#5 in this thread) have the results featuring Fred "Smokey" Cook in his MG at Bowman-Gray Stadium (and for that matter, the other "foreign" entries).

In addition to the two Bowman-Gray races mentioned, and Linden, New Jersey (the first NASCAR GN race on a "road course"), there were some "international" entries at Langhorne - as I mentioned in another post to this thread. I did neglect to mention that the inaugural NASCAR GN race at Riverside International Raceway in 1958 was open to "international" entries and featured a couple of Citroens, a Goliath and a Renault.

Recent research uncovered the driver of the Renault's name in that Riverside race was Milan Micka, not Hylan as Greg Fielden had it and was duplicated at Racing Reference. Micka was racing what appeared to be the same Renault some 7 or 8 years later at a Sedan race at Ascot (!).