14 replies to this topic

[Megatron]

Why didn't the Alfa Romeo team ever really get into its own?

Mario drove the car in 1981 but scored only two points.

In 1983, Andrea De Ceseris nearly won in Spa but other than that, they never really got off the ground.

Eddie Cheever and Ricardo Patrasse could do nothing in the car, now backed by Benetton until 1986.

As a long time Alfa fan, what went wrong?

Bad engine? Bad car? No money? Inter team politics?

If anyone has any info, LMK and thanks.

[William Dale Jr]

Probably all of the above at one stage or the other...

The engine definitely was past it by 1984, and I doubt the chassis was very good if Riccardo Patrese can rate it as the worst car he ever drove, considering that he drove some pretty poor machinery over his career. I think that the internal politics over how the money should be spent were a part of it, and team morale wasn't as good as it could have been.

Also remember that de Cesaris, one of my favourite drivers thanks to his "forgotten" drive in the race at Spa in '91, took pole in the car at Long Beach in 1982 and (I think) at Spa in 1983, so either the car was better than it appeared to be, or Andrea was really bloody fast. I am, of course, inclined to believe the latter

As Megatron said, post any info you have as I too am interested. I'm too young to be totally sure about the things I've just said, but I think that most of it is right.

[KzKiwi]

And dont forget Patrick Depaillers untimely death during practice at Hockenheim in August 1980. Just when he and Alfa Romeo were coming good the partnership was extinguished. AR had to regroup and lost momemtum as a result.

[Racer.Demon]

In fact Alfa (or Autodelta to be specific) were out of it by 1982 since in fact Paolo Pavanello's Euroracing team (of F2 fame) had taken over the day-to-day operation from 1983 on.

And then there's the matter of their bad human resource management, firing Ducarouge and Chiti (amongst others) on critical moments.

[Alfisti]

Lack of funds. It's a problem that has plauged Alfa from day one... no m oney.. serious cash flow problems. They almost went broke three times. Even if U R not an AAlfa fan you have to admit that they would be a loss to the industry. I have no problem with FIAT's takeover except one serious complaint... FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.. it's sacralidge.

Of course.. it also means that with Ferrari Alfa will never be in F1 again.

In the 80's the engine was very powerful at it's peak but was apparently a nightmare to drive... i don't think that helped.. and as said... lack of funds.

[MattFoster]

As a one eyed Alfa fan I was sadden to see the internal politics and mis-management ruin Alfa's return in the late 70's early 80's.

I was watching a tape with a couple of Alfa's best races last night. 82 Long Beach, where de Cesaris (my fav driver) took pole and led for a while and stayed second till the car caught fire and Andrea crashed. The other race was 83 Spa which Andrea dominated pulling away from the Renault of Prost till the pit stop which Alfa stuffed up totally. Andrea was just starting to haul Prost in when the car failed. That day Andrea should have won and easily.
This was in my opinion the break that would have made Andrea. He would have proved he had the stuff. He would have been given a top drive. Instead he left Alfa at the end of 83 and started the nomadic path that Andrea was to lead for the next 10 years.

Alfa would have won more races that year if they hadn't had sacked Gerard Ducarouge at the French GP as a scape-goat for a team stuff up. The Alfa 183T was coming on strong. Andrea would have been on pole at Paul Ricard but for a technical infringement in practice. Ducarouge was blamed for it and was sacked. He then when on to join Lotus and totally turned their season around by designing a new car in 2 months. Imagine what Alfa and Andrea could have done if Ducarouge was still with the team. Andrea had two late 2nd places that year. I suspect that they would have been wins.

I love Alfa Romeo and they could have got back to the glory years if they had better leadership.

Well there is my rant

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

Well, they did score a second place in the Australian GP of 1980...

[MattFoster]

that they did Ray but it was only against a field of f5000s and Jonesy's Williams.

It was good that they made it to the finish line that time

cheers
Matt

[MattFoster]

After seeing a copy of the 82 Long Beach GP again after all these years I have re-inforced my opinion that it is the best ever looking Alfa F1 car.

Cheers
Matt

[desmo]

I have thrown together a page of images of the 182/3, with some close-ups of the engine. To view, go to:

http://photos.altavi...com/alfaf1turbo

[MattFoster]

Love the pics desmo. Especially the engine ones. The V8 turbo wasn't the sweetest sounding Alfa engine ever but it sure was the sweetest sounding F1 turbo.

Cheers
Matt

[Alfisti]

Matt.. if your am Alfa freak pay a visit to my web site or mail me and i can wing you some pics as well as excellent links.

[mercutio]

Wasn't it de Cesaris in an Alfa who scored pole (but where and when ) but his fastest time was illegal, because there was no fire-extinguisher on-board during that run?
(sorry for my English, but it's early...)

[MattFoster]

Alfisti, yes I am an Alfa Freak and I will check out your site today.

Mercutio, The race you are thinking about is the 83 French GP. Andrea was fastest in Friday qualifying (wasn't it wonderful when Friday's times actually counted for something) but his car failed a random scrutineering check. The scrutineers found that he had empty fire extinguishers. As a result of that he had his time for Friday scrapped and Gerard Ducarouge was sacked. It was the beginning of the end for Alfa in F1 I suspect.

I can laso remember reading that there were rumours that it was a team member who tipped the scrutineers off. I'm pretty sure that the same thing happened in Rio at the beginning of the year and Andrea was diqualified from the whole weekend not just Friday's practice.

Cheers
Matt

[Megatron]

I notice that in 1982 they had a much different paint scheme than McLaren but in 1983 they had basically the same aside from black wings.

I love the way the 1983 Alfa looks. Better than the McLaren from the same year.

Marlboro advertising programs must have ran a muck.