58 replies to this topic

[Bordino]

Thanks everyone for your input, there is a lot to tell about what has been said and shown.

The pics shown by Robert are visible on Gallica with a few others. These ones are the best by their quality and interest, they show Duray in his "black devil" character and those remarkable Miller in all their glory, some sophisticated vehicles !

I have a few more, including one I just bought on the bay with Duray in the #18 at Montlhéry, I will scan it soon to show you.

[Bordino]

 

 

Leon Duray adjusting his glasses at Montlhéry in august 1929, cliché from agence Meurisse. It might be, or not, an original print but it is a wonderful sight

[Michael Ferner]

Great pictures, Robert and Arnaud, many thanks for posting! I don't know that I've ever seen a photo of Duray laughing or even only smiling, so the first two of Robert's set are somewhat special! Maybe the photographer was a mademoiselle, brightening Leon's features?

 

For what it's worth, the first two and the last two pictures show Duray's older (1926) front-drive, while the middle picture is of the newer (1928) car. I don't think I ever knew which of the two was supposed to be the '2-litre' car, I need to have a look at my notes - would be good to nail that one down. Arnaud's picture is, again, of the newer car, with wider and lower radiator and larger brakes, as well as some minor bodywork differences.

[Gerr]

Bordino and Fines 

 

 Try Automobile Quarterly, volume 21, number 4..... the article "Leon Duray, Just The Fastest" by Borgeson.....has some answers to your questions.

 

For instance, Borgeson met Duray in May 1951, at his home, on "an assignment to do a story on the Fordillac which had just been built to his (Duray's) order,"

They had planned to do some "bench racing later down the line" but that never happened before Duray passed away.  So no interview.

 

And the first trip to Europe ,according to Borgeson, and as Fines explained was to set some records and make some beer money, but also to promote front wheel drive with the Millers and an L29 Cord (also shipped over). 

Borgeson  isn't sure who financed this "junket"....Packard Electric or E.L.Cord, but thinks both may have been conned into it.

 

Second trip, as you suggested "an offer he couldn't refuse"...Florio offered $4000 appearance money to Duray for the Monza GP.

 

Also, in AQ 20/2, Borgeson writes about W.F.Bradley and his conflicts with Duray. 

[Michael Ferner]

"Beer money" - very good! 

 

I recall reading that there was some conflict about the money Duray was going to recieve in 1932. Apparently, the Italian authorities refused to pay (the whole amount) because it was suggested that Duray had crashed out of the race on purpose, while Duray complained that he hadn't known the race was to be run on the combined oval/street circuit, as opposed to the 1929 races on the oval track alone. American newspapers reported the conflict to have been about a $2,500 "bonus" payment, but I would warn against putting too much confidence in the accuracy of those reports.

[Bordino]

I keep learning at every intervention

 

Gerr, I start the hunt for AQ, thanks a lot.

 

Regarding the supposed capacity of the cars, this is what is said on the Golden Era site, upon the 1929 Monza GP :

 

The number 21 car was the 1492 cc Miller that Duray had driven at the Indy 500, while the number 18 car had a slightly bored-out engine to 1558 cc according to Duray. This was never substantiated by Monza officials, who simply accepted. Duray had entered this car for Edmond Bourlier to drive in Heat II. One might wonder if Duray entered the cars in separate heats to increase the likelihood of both of them getting to the final, in which case he would depart with more Lire.

 

And, upon  Heat 1, cars over 1100 up to 1500 cc:

 

All cars had been assigned even numbers except Duray's Miller #21 which had raced with that number at Indy and was part of a very nicely painted car in violet and yellow. Evidently the car, colors and number, remained unchanged since Indy and was allowed like that to race in Monza.

 

[Michael Ferner]

I don't think I ever knew which of the two was supposed to be the '2-litre' car...

 

'Somebody' already knew all along... 

 

https://www.oldracin.../miller/1924-2/

 

I'll have to learn to trust Internet sources! 

 

Yes, it appears the cars were never repainted, and still carried their 1929 Indy numbers when found over twenty years later! As for the boring of the engine, I think I commented on that earlier in this thread, it's highly unlikely in my view, though certainly not impossible. It's rather questionable whether anyone would've been prepared to tear them down and remeasure at Monza, but on the other hand the Montlhéry record runs are another matter! I'm not really comfortable commenting on record runs, as I have only very limited interest in that sort of competition, but does anyone know, would the authorities (the ACF, I'd presume) make sure of the exact capacity?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 27 November 2023 - 13:23.

[Doug Nye]

My understanding is that where AIACR/ACF/RAC etc record attempts were concerned, officialdom was pretty much eagle-eyed and their scrutiny paid great attention to verification of true engine capacity.  

 

Capacity-class compliance received far more attention at a record attempt than at any multiple-entry race meeting, perhaps simply because there was more time available for inspection and verification, and greater risk of 'discovery' where contestants were concerned.  This was certainly true of individual record attempts as arranged and booked by individual constructors or owner/drivers - a la MG, Goldie Gardner and MG Ex135 when at the same course booking it contested records applying to different capacity classes.  

 

It could be argued that less time overall for scrutiny was available when - for example - John Cobb pursued his extraordinary Napier-Railton records of up to 24 hours duration at Bonneville, 1936, or at Montlhéry, but then when you've got 24-litres under the bonnet you're in the over-more-than-sufficient capacity class in any case.

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

I've seen Italian press reports, apparently quoting official AIACR documents relating to Rafaele Cecchini's Moscerino Class J (350cc) records in 1939, which state the car's engine was officially measured at a very precise 348.39cc. They didn't say what make it was, so presumably not Italian - my guess is a Norton Cammy, which was sold as 348cc.