12 replies to this topic

[desmo]

This illustrates the evolving trends in liner type in F1. The first illustration shows conventional individual liners. Judd used a clever arrangement in his Yamaha OX-11 in which he threaded the liners into the heads reducing the need for studs intruding into the water jacketing, and thus allowing closer center to center piston dimensions. The middle drawing shows how then engineers integrated the liners into a single unit. This is probably still the arrangement used by most teams. On the right is a linerless construction in which the piston rings run on a ceramic surface plasma-sprayed directly onto the block casting. Cosworth is almost certainly using this linerless construction.

[Ray Bell]

Nothing of the traditional fabricated M-B setup?
No wonder the costs keep rising.

[Halfwitt]

So, the question is......what arrangement is the Cosworth CR1 / CR2? Any guesses? Any disgruntled ex-Cosworth types listening in? How long can they keep this secret for? Has anyone seen any pictures yet?

[Top Fuel F1]

1. I've read that both linerless and individual engine
liners are coated with a layer of Silizium. I don't know
if that's equal to plasma powder. Anyway, most info on
Silizium revolves around German companies and analysis.

2. I also read about another process ( reading material
dated in the Aug. 1999 period) and was a little concerned that it might be tantamount to alchemy. That is until this German firm clained to have delivered 50 cylinder liners (using this process) to Ilmor for the Mclaren F1 use. They also claim to be doing work for BMW. In any event the process is called Ion-Resonator. In a stainless-steel tank the plasma-physician accelerates ions with a high electical charge, shooting the gas molcules against the surfaces of the cylinders or piston components with high energy. They claim the result is a modified low-friction material structure. In other words, "When you use an aluminium alloy, the end-product is still aluminium. However the molecular structure has changed". They also say this process is equally effective on either untreated aluminium parts or those previous made with Silizium coatings. However with the Ion-Resonator process nothing else is required.

3. If this holds any promise it would seem that linerless
engines might be the way to go.

Best Regards;

[Halfwitt]

Silizium is German for Silicon. Silicon based liner coatiings are common, such as Nikasil (Silicon Nitride or carbide ceramic in a Nickel plate matrix). I have also heard about a ceramic containing aluminium alloy being used as the casting material (i.e. the whole cylinder block cast in this material), and pistons being run directly in this, with the ceramic particles acting as the bearing (liner) surface. As far as I know (and I don't know much) this was on a road car (it might have been a Jaguar coincidentally), but it probably isn't beyond the wit of an F1 engine manufacturer to incorporate this process and material.

Plasma powder.....tricky one that, where did that come from? Plasma can either be ionized gas, which would count powder out, or a blood by-product, which would be less than useful unless in a hospital.

I don't know anything about Ion-resonance, but I have heard of something similar and it is (allegedly) scientifically proven (if it is the same process we are discussing). I can only assume that the acceleration of ions into a surface caused them to embed and strain the material, thus work hardening it. Could all be bullshit though.....

[Top Fuel F1]

Yes, we are moving closer. In reference to DESMO's grahpic
(3. Linerless engine block) Plasma Powder Spraying is mentioned. With a little more investigating I find:
" Plasma Spray Process is a process where a Silizium containing powder is applied with a carrying gas. Under high voltage the Silizium contacts the surfaces. " Other items:

1. Regarding the Ion-Resonator process that I mentioned in my last Post: It's commercial name is GX. Another advantage
of this is that you can place the entire engine block into
the Resonator and complete the process in 30 seconds. Where as with the Plasma Spray Process you have to discretely spray the cylinder walls.

2. I have to run right now; but I will get back to you concerning the older and more cumbersome processes Lokasil and Nikasil. Also an xlated German analysis.

Best Regards;

[Halfwitt]

I have read the stuff in the magic ion-resonance method, and it does sound good. Very good indeed. Too good in fact. One man and a magic tank.....

Here is the website address:
http://www.united-te...ranslation.html

It says Ilmor had 50 cylinder liners done. It clearly doesn't work. Ilmor would need probably 1000 liner a year for its F1 work alone, never mind the CART stuff (not that this will be a concern for them soon). If it was so good, then Ilmor would have all liners done. So would everyone else.

It also says that BMW tried the process, but won Le Mans without any of the parts. It claims better fuel consumption. I would think any method of fuel consumption reduction would be cherished by Le Mans teams. If it worked BMW would have used it. Clearly their better fuel consumption came from other methods.

The man with his magic tank also claims to have new fuels, increase air flow, lower engine temperatures, and exciting new materials. If he had all of this, I don't think he would still be messing with his magic tank. Ilmor would employ him (or BMW, or Cosworth).

You may detect a hint of scepticism.

[Top Fuel F1]

Re: 1. Nikasil: Nickel/Silizium applied in a galvanizing process to the surface of aluminium parts. In extreme conditions the coating can flake off.
2. Lokasil: Silizium/Aluminium Alloy. Where silizium containing fibers are added to the casting mold as a pre-form, then followed by the casting of the aluminium. Then the top layer of aluminium is removed leaving the hardened silizium crystals.
3. Silizium Plasma Spray Process (discussed in my previous Posts and in DESMO's orignal Post).

No I didn't think GX was off and running. It was just interesting to think Ilmor would even be taking samples. In any event to temporarily summarize:

1. It's believed that Cosworth may be using a Linerless engine. To do so would be prohibitive/impractical if such processes as (Re: 1 & Re: 2) had to be used. So one might assume that Re: 3. is being used. Although in a previous Post there was some question about this process ( " plasma-powder...tricky, etc. " ). So maybe this needs some more looking into.

2. Then possibly most, if not all, other F1 engines are using the integrated liners. I believe they have to stop using Beryllium soon. If so will that encourage others to try to get to what is thought Cosworth is doing, or will most be content to carry on with integrated liners with the best availiable alloys? Also when I saw Mclaren had taken 50 cylinders with GX I had assumed individual; but more than likely they would have been integrated.

3. Are there any other processes that have not yet been discussed in this Thread?

Best Regards;

[desmo]

Linerless bores, like almost any "new idea", are quite old. Chevrolet produced a linerless engine for it's lamentable Vega back in the early seventies. McLaren were racing(and dominating) the Can-Am series in the US using linerless versions of a Chevy V-8 around the same time. The trick then was simply an Al alloy with a high silicon content. This alone is entirely adequate for a 2 hour race. The disadvantage is that you will find yourself throwing away very expensive blocks like spent beer cans, particularly if you want to maximise the potential for reducing bore center distances.[p][Edited by desmo on 09-14-2000]

[Billy Gunn]

I've heard talk of a 'seeded' casting technology which places desirable compounds in the right places, I think it was in connection with Ferrari. The chief engineer of one F1 team (and seeing as Ferrari are the only ones who make their own engines after the demise of the in-house Arrows engine, so that's who I think it was); was being interviewed pre season and let slip a statement about 'micro fusion' technology being responsible for a big weight reduction on the 2000 engine. This looks very similar to the process mentioned above.

Of course the other alternative meaning of 'micro fusion' is welding!!!! - maybe they are running the steel block before Renault?

G ylliB

[tak]

A few notes from auto and other industries...

Honda has also done a lot with linerless aluminum block engines. I believe that either the current or last generation Honda Prelude is one example. Curiously, they have not brought this technology to motorcycle engines...
I have been under the impression that a "Nicasil liner" was just a locally heat treated area of an aluminum block. Start with a high silicon content aluminum alloy, rough machine, induction treat desired areas, and final machine. The heat treatment results in precipitation of silicon (hard) particles. My understanding is that finish machining this surface is VERY difficult.

From "The Metals Red Book" Vol 2 Casti Publishing, "Hypereutectic (aluminum) alloys, i.e. those with more than 12% Si contain primary silicon particles in their microstructure which impart wear resistance, giving these alloys applications as automotive pistons and engine blocks. a popular example is UNS A03900 which contains 17% Si, 4.5% Cu, and .6% Mg."

"Ion-implant" is VERY common in the semiconductor industry. Same idea as the thread here--accelerate an ionized gas stream at a surface, and elements are imbedded into the surface. Not at all my area of expertise, but I believe that ion implant is a cold process, that will not upset a heat treated crystaline structures. It also allows the implant of elements (possibly chemical compounds?) that are not normally soluble in the host material. I believe that pure silicon (normally an insulator) is converted into a "semi-conductor" by ion implantation. Again, not my area of expertise, so I'm out on a limb here...

[desmo]

Nicasil is universally described as a plating process, similar in effect to a "hard chrome plate.

Microfusione in Italian is usually a term that simply descibes an investment casting technique. Lug sets and fork crowns made in Italy for racing bicycles are often descibed as "microfusione" which is the same term used to describe the block in the Italian language Ferrari F1 site. In the publicity photos, the Ferrari block certainly looks like a cast aluminum unit. Of course, if they had something more radical they wouldn't tell us.

[Halfwitt]

Further to the last post, unless there has been a radical departure from a couple of years ago, F1 engies are all sand-cast, and not investmant cast. Some of these could be seen at Autosport last year: Ilmor (97 model), Cosworth (97 model?), Ferrari, Yamaha.

Investment casting is far too expensive and too difficult in terms of time and effort to alter when rapid casting changes need to be made.

According to Mr. J. Clarkson's ever-open mouth, Ferrari blocks are made in Dudley. This company from Dudley were at Autosport show last year, and they only do sand castings (or that was all they had on show). Maybe microfusion technique is the same as the HIP process (hot isostatic pressing) where castings are exposed to pressure at temperature to close internal defects. I read about this in an old motorcycle racing magazine, and I think it is quite widely done nowadays.

Unless stereolithography is being used to generate the 'waxes' for the process. I don't know if this is possible, although I am sure somebody must be doing this.

I would also think that the engines would be even lighter than they are now if investment techniques were used. The light engines are either a)radical in construction (Cosworth) or b) highly refined, but conventionally constructed and manufactured (Ilmor, Ferrari et al)