65 replies to this topic

[Mauseri]

Just a quick poll

[noikeee]

Can I vote in both option #1 and option #2? It'll be great and boring, if that makes any sense.

[Ricardo F1]

I don't think they'll dominate but I do think they'll win. I think they have an advantage, last years car ended the season the best, they know Bridgestone better than anyone, they have two very good drivers - possible the best on the grid. As a team they probably have the strongest pairing. It's hard to see them beat, but radical team structure changes could see their downfall, you never know . . . .

[jokuvaan]

Why on earth there needs to be new "prediction" poll after about every testing week.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Why on earth there needs to be new "prediction" poll after about every testing week.

You voted option 8?

The last test is correct moment for prediction in my opinion. I dont know why there have been many predictions, people were predicting already in november without having seen the cars

[bizi jones]

06 was a fun season...I don;t want it reverting back to 04...

[SphereTL1000S]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
I don't think they'll dominate but I do think they'll win. I think they have an advantage, last years car ended the season the best, they know Bridgestone better than anyone, they have two very good drivers - possible the best on the grid. As a team they probably have the strongest pairing. It's hard to see them beat, but radical team structure changes could see their downfall, you never know . . . .

Maybe they can get in trouble if FIA bans a longer wheelbase mid-season. Just thinking aloud...

[Risil]

Originally posted by SphereTL1000S


Maybe they can get in trouble if FIA bans a longer wheelbase mid-season. Just thinking aloud...

Only they won't ban it, they'll just elaborate that they were in fact measuring in nautical metres or something.

[WACKO]

It's just a little early to do this poll. Do it after the first two or three races, then we should have a good view. It may be very different when we go to Melbourne; yep Ferrari look good, but so do McLaren. Don't discount Alonso even is Ferrari is potentially slightly ahead. He makes up for a lot of deficit.

[Agnis]

Ferrari haven't won any championship last two years while having Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn. I don't see how can they win in theyr first year without them. Btw over four days of Bahrain testing, Alonso and Heidfeld had faster times.

I predict ealry advantege for Renault as usual and when the European season starts, Alonso will catch up.

[Owen]

Ferrari will dominate, boring... was my vote.
I really, really hope I'm wrong.

[clampett]

Originally posted by Agnis
Ferrari haven't won any championship last two years while having Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn. I don't see how can they win in theyr first year without them. Btw over four days of Bahrain testing, Alonso and Heidfeld had faster times.

I predict ealry advantege for Renault as usual and when the European season starts, Alonso will catch up.

That would be great, but won't happen.

[RDM]

McLaren should absolutely walk it, of course.

If Ferrari were to win either championship, with the huge changes in staff and structure that have taken place, it would be little short of a miracle, and testament to the genius of Mssrs Brawn, Todt and Byrne etc. for creating a structure that enables them to continue operating at the highest level whilst going through such a huge evolution of personnel.

If McLaren can't win it this year, serious questions will presumably be raised about the competance of their senior management for their inability to capitalise on the opportunity to outshine their competitiors in a year when really they should.

Owen - how can you support a team you evidently have no faith in? Sure, I have no faith in Ron's honsesty or integrity - but surely you, as a self-confessed McLaren fan would have faith in Ron's abilities to run an F1 team competantly, and expolit the opposition's potentially weakest year?

[WACKO]

Originally posted by Owen
Ferrari will dominate, boring... was my vote.
I really, really hope I'm wrong.

There is nothing pointing in the direction of any team dominating, to be honest.

[Frogman]

Originally posted by paranoik0
Can I vote in both option #1 and option #2? It'll be great and boring, if that makes any sense.

Sure it does. I remember 2002 and 2004.

[Buttoneer]

What I don't understand about this poll is the idea that we should only have an opinion about whether domination is boring or great with regard to Ferrari. I consider any season with one driver or team dominating as dull even if they're someone I am particularly rooting for. What's the point of cheering for a driver who crosses the line a minute before the next?

2005 didn't bore me simply because it was someone different. 2006 started to, but Schumie made it interesting again. I sincerely hope that by mid season we have no clear front runner.

[Peri_Piket]

I think Ferrari will do a Renault in 2005/06 and dominate the former part of the championship due to the better understanding of BStones and open a gap in both pointstandings.

Then McLaren and BMW will catch up Ferrari and even surpass them in the 2nd part, but it won't be enough to discount the gap.

Hope Alonso proves me wrong.

Renault regular and reliable, but not fast enough. :

Ferrari might suffer from reliability problems. That story of assembly the ECU inside the microwave oven... :

[Agnis]

I think it would be great if Renault or BMW dominated. It would be a nice fight between teammates - both teams have a veteran and a bright rookie. If Ferrari or McLaren dominate, the outcome is absolutely clear.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by Agnis
I think it would be great if Renault or BMW dominated. It would be a nice fight between teammates - both teams have a veteran and a bright rookie. If Ferrari or McLaren dominate, the outcome is absolutely clear.

YES, add some retired drivers like Prost, Piquet, Salazar and Mansell to the BMW driver's fight and it will be truly interesting.

[Owen]

Owen - how can you support a team you evidently have no faith in? Sure, I have no faith in Ron's honsesty or integrity - but surely you, as a self-confessed McLaren fan would have faith in Ron's abilities to run an F1 team competantly, and expolit the opposition's potentially weakest year?

Well, I have a lot of faith in Mclaren (as you would expect) but the evidence of the last few days has led me to conclude that the latest aero spec Ferrari will be roughly half a second quicker than any other car on the grid, Mclaren included. Therefore my expectations for 2007 are not great. I see no evidence whatsoever of Ferrari having a weak year. You must admit the big teams have strength in depth. We lost Newey but it doesn't lower my expectations for Mclaren so I don't think losing Brawn should lower the expectations at Ferrari. We may catch up later on but I expect a red wash for the first few races at least.

[Owen]

Originally posted by WACKO


There is nothing pointing in the direction of any team dominating, to be honest.

I would point to recent testing times as my evidence.

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by RDM
McLaren should absolutely walk it, of course.

If Ferrari were to win either championship, with the huge changes in staff and structure that have taken place, it would be little short of a miracle, and testament to the genius of Mssrs Brawn, Todt and Byrne etc. for creating a structure that enables them to continue operating at the highest level whilst going through such a huge evolution of personnel.

If McLaren can't win it this year, serious questions will presumably be raised about the competance of their senior management for their inability to capitalise on the opportunity to outshine their competitiors in a year when really they should.

Owen - how can you support a team you evidently have no faith in? Sure, I have no faith in Ron's honsesty or integrity - but surely you, as a self-confessed McLaren fan would have faith in Ron's abilities to run an F1 team competantly, and expolit the opposition's potentially weakest year?

and yet, totally ignore all the staffing changes at McLaren which have being as great as the changes at Ferrari, hmmmmm

[RDM]

Originally posted by Anomnader


and yet, totally ignore all the staffing changes at McLaren which have being as great as the changes at Ferrari, hmmmmm

Oh! Dennis and Whitmarsh and Haug have gone have they? I had no idea...why haven't we seen this on Autosport news?

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by RDM

Oh! Dennis and Whitmarsh and Haug have gone have they? I had no idea...why haven't we seen this on Autosport news?

You know what I mean, so quit trying not to. McLaren have being noticed for losing a lot of top designers, aswell as complete driving changes. Try and ignore it if you want to fit your McLaren bash agenda all you want

[DCult]

Originally posted by RDM
McLaren should absolutely walk it, of course.

If Ferrari were to win either championship, with the huge changes in staff and structure that have taken place, it would be little short of a miracle, and testament to the genius of Mssrs Brawn, Todt and Byrne etc. for creating a structure that enables them to continue operating at the highest level whilst going through such a huge evolution of personnel.

If McLaren can't win it this year, serious questions will presumably be raised about the competance of their senior management for their inability to capitalise on the opportunity to outshine their competitiors in a year when really they should.

Owen - how can you support a team you evidently have no faith in? Sure, I have no faith in Ron's honsesty or integrity - but surely you, as a self-confessed McLaren fan would have faith in Ron's abilities to run an F1 team competantly, and expolit the opposition's potentially weakest year?

Ferrari's weakest year will be two years after either Max or Bernie or both die.

[Owen]

Originally posted by DCult


Ferrari weakest year will two years after Max or Bernie or both of them die.

...Or if Bridgestone decides to leave the sport.

[kar]

Originally posted by Owen


...Or if Bridgestone decides to leave the sport.

Not so sure. Didn't McLaren leave Goodyear because of similar complaints of favouring Ferrari?

[Tenmantaylor]

If Massa gives Raikkonen a real good fight all the way it will be great- if it turns into a no 1 no 2 driver situation that we've seen in the Schumi era it'll be boring.

Hence I didnt vote.

[Owen]

Originally posted by kar


Not so sure. Didn't McLaren leave Goodyear because of similar complaints of favouring Ferrari?

|

I dunno. I'll take your word for it.

[kar]

Originally posted by Owen
|

I dunno. I'll take your word for it.

To be sure then I went and checked back in the journal and found this

Following Ross Brawn's defence of Ferrari's tyre choice in Sepang, Ron Dennis is concerned that Bridgestone is not playing with an open deck of cards.

When denying Ron Dennis's accusation concerning risking the lives of their drivers, Brawn stated "we tried those tyres at Fiorano last week, and we knew that the intermediate was a very, very good tyre. Even in fairly deep water. So I think that's an unfortunate comment for him to make without the facts or information that was needed."

On the face of it, the comment appeared to be innocent; however, it has led a number of McLaren test personnel to be wondering why Ferrari have data that they do not. After all, when McLaren jumped from Goodyear to Bridgestone, the agreement secured a favourable working relationship with the tyre manufacturer.

When Ferrari finally changed to Bridgestone, a lot of political wrangling behind the scenes, including supply of tyres to road-cars, and a lot more besides, ensured Ferrari at least the same level of support from Bridgestone. Officially, it was disguised (badly) by the manufacturer to allay fears of favouritism from the other teams. An announcement that Bridgestone was working with the "top two teams in the Championship" to produce rubber for the next year did the trick.

Full article http://atlasf1.autos.../grapevine.html

[Owen]

Excellent work. I'm struggling to grasp the point though.

[kar]

The general point is that no matter who is the tyre provider one team (historically McLaren) are going to moan about another team being favoured.

Ferrari at Goodyear and again at Bridgestone, (the goodyear thing came to a head at Hungary '98 I believe also, something about narrow/wide front tyres from memory), and Renault and Michelin last year, with McLaren getting Renault's Michelin optimising dampers banned.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen
Excellent work. I'm struggling to grasp the point though.

I think the point is that McLaren have, on occasion, been reduced to paranoid finger-pointing at anybody and everybody when they have a bad run of form. Otherwise known as sour grapes.

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by RDM

I think the point is that McLaren have, on occasion, been reduced to paranoid finger-pointing at anybody and everybody when they have a bad run of form. Otherwise known as sour grapes.

Nope, I have never come across that, certainly no more then any other team.

[Owen]

Originally posted by RDM

I think the point is that McLaren have, on occasion, been reduced to paranoid finger-pointing at anybody and everybody when they have a bad run of form. Otherwise known as sour grapes.

Oh right. It's all Mclaren's fault...
I feel this is becoming a recurrent theme.

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by kar
The general point is that no matter who is the tyre provider one team (historically McLaren) are going to moan about another team being favoured.

Ferrari at Goodyear and again at Bridgestone, (the goodyear thing came to a head at Hungary '98 I believe also, something about narrow/wide front tyres from memory), and Renault and Michelin last year, with McLaren getting Renault's Michelin optimising dampers banned.

I didn't think it was actually proven who complained about Renaults mass dampers.

[kar]

Originally posted by Anomnader


I didn't think it was actually proven who complained about Renaults mass dampers.

Flavio Briatore telling F1 racing that it was McLaren isn't proof enough?

[Ciao]

82% of people believe Ferrari or McLaren will win. Condireing 11% didn't vote for any team.....not good for the rest of the grid.....

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by kar


Flavio Briatore telling F1 racing that it was McLaren isn't proof enough?

I do believe this was denied and didn't Flav actually later say he didn't know who complained

[kar]

Originally posted by Anomnader


I do believe this was denied and didn't Flav actually later say he didn't know who complained

Of course McLaren said they didn't complain, I hardly think they would want to own up to their tattle tailing, particularly when it was compromising the championship charge of a driver coming to them the following year.

As for Flavio's comments. Did he say that did he? I haven't read anything of the sort. Feel free to reference where you're dragging this from though.

For what it's worth I'm referring my beliefs based on Flavio's Long Interview F1 Racing (October), pages 66-76.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen


Oh right. It's all Mclaren's fault...
I feel this is becoming a recurrent theme.

The recurring theme is that McLaren claim a range of tyre manufacturers are conspiring against them, whilst no other teams appear to suffer from the same conspiracy.

There is no real "it" to be McLaren's fault - the apparent "it" is a creation of Ron Dennis' paranoid grey matter.

[Owen]

Originally posted by RDM

The recurring theme is that McLaren claim a range of tyre manufacturers are conspiring against them, whilst no other teams appear to suffer from the same conspiracy.

There is no real "it" to be McLaren's fault - the apparent "it" is a creation of Ron Dennis' paranoid grey matter.

Given Ferrari's track record of dirty tricks and politicking, that 'paranoia' as you called it is probably the only way to compete with them.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen


Given Ferrari's track record of dirty tricks and politicking, that 'paranoia' as you called it is probably the only way to compete with them.

This is what makes me laugh. Anybody who really believes McLaren are any less culpable of dirty tricks and politicking than Ferrari is either stupid (which I am sure you are not), deluded, or totally disingenuous.

Ron has managed to hoodwink one hell of a lot of McLaren fans into believing his team fight "more fair" than Ferrari, but fortunately there are plenty of people who don't swallow this rather obvious spin.

It reminds me of people who give those thieving old gypsy women a fiver for a sprig of "lucky heather" and think they've brought themselves good luck, and avoided being cursed, when they are, in fact, just being conned out of a small fortune for some stolen flowers. One of the ones who hangs around outside Hamleys in Regent St looks a bit like Ron too....maybe he's just practising relieving well-meaning McLaren fans of merchandise cash, by pretending their money too is going to a "good" cause?

[Ciao]

Given Ferrari's track record of dirty tricks and politicking

Ferrari's track record is longer only because they raced in F1 longer. Every team "bends" the rules as far as they can (example......grooved tires that finish like slick tires from an unmentioned French manufacturer...dirty trick?). Sometimes they are caught, most often not. Many times they just exploit a loopehole. Example? Senna dies in a Williams with a suspension through his head in 1994. New rules with higher sides to protect the driver's head in 1995. Which is the only team to circumvent the new rule with a loophole, gaining a morally despisable but legally available advantage? Williams!!!! The one team that should have cared the most!!!!! Despite your statement, Ferrari won 5 WDCs this decade but nobody ever found anything illegal with their cars. Flexi wings? any different than Renault's controversial dampers? Not.

Don't forget that Williams introduced cars with suspensions that changed the hight of the car, Brabham raced with a fan in the back, McLaren won 1976 after being restated for a GP won with a car....one inch wider than what allowed by the rules....Lotus 1979 used miniskirts and venturi effect, which was...... 100% illegal.

Grow up and face the world of F1 for what it is......a bunch of guys doing their best to outperform each other....which often means.....outsmart each other.....not necessaily in a fair and square way. That is F1. It has always been that way, since 1950. If you don't like it, may I suggest you try bocce. But stop this Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari little lament, you sound like the boy that would run to his mommy anytime someone took his ball. It's pathetic.

[powered_by_M-B]

3 words. Ferrari International Assistance.

But seriously, michael and his gang are gone now....let's move on. The ferrari team is new, maybe the FIA will want bmw to somehow get up there with the other teams or soemthing.

[Owen]

Originally posted by RDM

This is what makes me laugh. Anybody who really believes McLaren are any less culpable of dirty tricks and politicking than Ferrari is either stupid (which I am sure you are not), deluded, or totally disingenuous.

Ron has managed to hoodwink one hell of a lot of McLaren fans into believing his team fight "more fair" than Ferrari, but fortunately there are plenty of people who don't swallow this rather obvious spin.

It reminds me of people who give those thieving old gypsy women a fiver for a sprig of "lucky heather" and think they've brought themselves good luck, and avoided being cursed, when they are, in fact, just being conned out of a small fortune for some stolen flowers. One of the ones who hangs around outside Hamleys in Regent St looks a bit like Ron too....maybe he's just practising relieving well-meaning McLaren fans of merchandise cash, by pretending their money too is going to a "good" cause?

I believe the way in which you win is important. I believe in being sporting.
That's why I can't support this current Ferrari team.
I do appreciate you are the polar opposite of my opinion and respect your right to say so.

[Ciao]

I believe the way in which you win is important. I believe in being sporting.

You are following the wrong sport. Renault and Michelin have been involved in two serious scandals regarding their dumpers and their tires becoming slicks. It's the fact you only point at one team that shows how full of s%@t you are. Believe in sporting. As I said...try bocce.

[Owen]

Originally posted by Ciao


You are following the wrong sport. Renault and Michelin have been involved in two serious scandals regarding their dumpers and their tires becoming slicks. It's the fact you only point at one team that shows how full of s%@t you are. Believe in sporting. As I said...try bocce.

I'll follow whatever sport I like thanks very much and don't throw insults around either as it's not giving you much credibility. What is bocce btw?

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen


I believe the way in which you win is important. I believe in being sporting.
That's why I can't support this current Ferrari team.
I do appreciate you are the polar opposite of my opinion and respect your right to say so.

Then why do you support McLaren.

Or do you believe McLaren take a more ethical approach than Ferrari. If so, and people have taken the effort to explain McLaren are just as dirty as Ferrari but you don't - for whatever reason - wish to accept it, then fine, but you are really just admitting that Ron has successfully conned you.

All the leading teams push the limits, and fight dirty, it's just that I'm willing to accept that Ferrari are not shy of a bit of politicking and you are not willing to accept the same truth about McLaren.

Getting on some moral high horse about "believing in being sporting whilst I am the polar opposite" simply highlights the absurdity of your position and your gullibility in believing hook, line and sinker McLaren's spin.

Can you not accept that McLaren fight as dirty as McLaren? No need to be embarrassed, embrace the truth and you'll feel free!

[Ciao]

I'll follow whatever sport I like thanks very much and don't throw insults around either as it's not giving you much credibility. What is bocce btw?

Not being capable of seeing a sport for what it really is gives you even less credibility and shows quite some nationalistic bias. I apologize, I am sorry for the full of it comment. I just find it so immature and childish to always invoke the bogeyman in a onesided manner.

Believing that Ferrari can outsmart, cheat and suppress McLaren, Toyota, Honda, Renault, Williams, Red Bull, Mercedes, BMW and get away with it....sorry, who is credible??? one has to have very limited understanding of this sport or such a deeply rooted bias/nationalistic sense to completly become unable to see reality. The total revenues of the Almighty Bogeyman Ferrari team would be a mere footnote in the Toyota Corporation annual report. And you believe this team is capable of playing cat and mouse with all these giants at the same time for all these years????? That is really sad, really.

Again, bocce is more like the sport for you.

PS. By the way, Ferrari or not, Renault still trashed McLaren in the past 2 years. Maybe you should stop finding excuses to your nationalistic bias