15 replies to this topic

[The Swerve]

Firstly, my deepest condolences to the family of the dead marshall.

I understand that Italy has some very complicated laws when it comes to manslaughter - for every death like this there must be a person responsible.

I think this means that the shadow of Monza'00 will hang over F1 for sometime to come, in the same way that Imola'94 has done. If somebody has to take the blame who will it be? Barrichello's for swerving into the Jordan's? de la Rosa's for not slowing down in time to avoid Johnny Herbert? Or whoever the owner of the wheel which struck the poor man was? The team owners who's car lost the wheel? Or the Race organisers themself?

Can you imagine the impact this would have on racing in general if the Italian courts try to pin this on a driver?

I don't think we have seen the end of this.

[mhferrari]

God bless the fire marshall.

Secondly, there should be no action. But I think they poorly handled the one for Senna, in that they made it like it was Senna's fault when it was truly not.

[The Swerve]

Actually the Senna trial tried to blame Frank Williams and Adrian Newey for the tragedy.

[IAM]

Are you sure the Marshal died? The last I heard he was taken to the hopital and was doing OK considering.

Ian

[Ray Bell]

The news this morning said he had died. And so he will be blessed by God in accordance with Romans 6:7 and John 5:28, givng him the opportunity to live again one day.
Just what the courts will do remains to be seen, obviously, but we had a thread in Nostalgia about this (in the 'decline' of Lotus' thread, for those who want to look), and there is an explanation of why the law is followed through in the way it is.
This is not a new problem, the deaths of von Trips and 11 or 12 spectators at Monza in 1961 caused a huge problem for Lotus.

[tony]

The law is something that most of us here on the board know nothing about. I imagine all race marshals sign a contract saying that the track owners, the FIA, the teams, or drivers cannot be held legally responsible in case of injury or death. I would be highly surprised if they did not sign such an agreement. Everyone who knows motorsports knows it is a dangerous sport. I am not saying the marshal got what he deserved but he certainly knew of the dangers. It is sad and I hate too see such incidents, but I seriously doubt there is a way to hold anyone legally responsilbe. However something should be done to compensate the marshal's familiy.
Here is a reasonable compromise if legal action cannot be attained. I think the FIA should seriously fine or suspend all the teams whose wheel tethers did not work properly. There were wheels going all over the place from more than one car. These suspensions and/or fines should be carried out soon, regardless of the impact it has on points and the championship. Then the FIA should take the proceeds from the fines and give it too the marshal's family.

[Williams]

"Wheel tethers not working properly". If the teams install the tethers in accrodance with regulations, what else can they do ? Are teams now responsible for designing their own custom safety gear ? The wheel tethers are a good idea, but can only be so effective, given the hostile and chaotic environment they must perform in.

Similarly, in the middle of a motor racing accident, people are in danger of getting killed, and there is little to be done about that, other than give every person around the track a bomb-proof shelter.

There are just too many high-speed, unpreditable events occuring at the same time to be able to say, "A's wheel separated from car, striking car B, causing it to crash, also causing wheel separation, which then went over the guardrail and killed a marshal. Therefore x,y and z are repsonsible".

A case can be made that some responsibility should be found if a member of the viewing public is killed at the track, and even then neglegence should be proved. But race marshalls, like race drivers, are voluntary members of a profession who choose to take certain risks, and if nobody chose to take those risks, the sport of auto racing simply would not exist. So decide whether you want to watch the sport, or whether it should be banned althogether.

[boost]

The (in)famous tethers rears it head again.
Dont they now use 2 tethers on each wheel now? or is that next year? I think that there is nothing going to stop a wheel from flying about. This was discussed before i think and that the only thing the tether is going to do is PARTIALLY slow down the tyre. But the energy involved is tremendous and accidents will always occur.
For FIA to fine the teams who all comply to the regs is shooting itself in the foot! If anything the FIA should be brought to bear the responsibility cause they make the rules and its simply not good enuf.
Also when i reveived my Melb GP tickets,, the back has some intresting clauses/statements about flying wheels and accidents. They (FIA, track owners)cover themselves good cause they know it will and can happen.

[variocam]

Hard to say. I am aware of that law in Italy. I am also aware that after many F1 personalities were questioned for blame of Ayrton's death, Bernie said that if this was to remain the case, then F1 would no longer race in Italy. Was the law changed? Is there a new clause for F1 racing? As well, I think you would find that the marshel himself would eventually be blamed for his own death. Monza gave him a berrior that I'm sure he was instructed to stand behind and he (as well as many others) did not. I am not saying that this man deserved to die, but even Coulthard mentioned this. F1 and its teams would hire the best Italian lawyers and I wouldnt worry about anyone getting charged for manslaughter.

[Ray Bell]

Was he not behind the barrier? Perhaps the wheel came over it... and the TV showed him being treated behind the barrier.

[baddog]

did anyone else notice how close some people (Im assuming marshalls) came to being struck by jenson buttons errant williams? they appeared on the long tv shot to be the track side of the barrier on the straight. maybe THIS is the issue that needs to be addressed most urgently, as david coulthard seemed to be implying.

Shaun

[Witt]

The FIA have been waiting for something to give Monza the boot from the Championship. No doubt they will use this tradgedy as fuel for their decision.

It's also a shame if someone has to be held responsible. On the back of the ticket it clearly says "Motor Racing is dangerous" and in my book, as long as Monza did everything according to the FIA rules, no-one should be blamed for this. All parties should work together to find a way to avoid this tradgedy from happening again.

My money is also on more tethers being added to the wheels before the the next GP. Too little to late if you ask me. But as they say, hindsight is always 20/20.

[Ray Bell]

The law of the land supercedes the FIA regs any time... and if the law says something has to be done, the official parties will have to do it...

[Ellen2]

the official parties don't even have a say in this. In Italy, the local DA is obliged by law to open an investigation when someone dies violently (HHF's wheel on this poor marshal is indeed a violent, non-natural death). There is no going around it. If the DA doesn't open the investigation, he can kiss his sorry ass goodbye. Annoying as it is in racing situations, the law doesn't provide for Formula 1 as an exception to an otherwise useful law.

[The Swerve]

Is it confirmed as HHF's wheel?

[The Swerve]

It has begun already -

from Atlas F1 News Room:

Monza Death Inquiry Threatens New Legal Row

Monday September 11th, 2000

A public prosecutor's inquiry into the death of a fire marshal at the Italian Grand Prix on Sunday could re-open the debate over safety at Italian Formula One race tracks.

Monza public prosecutor Salvatore Bellomo is handling the inquiry, less than a year after the court case over Ayrton Senna's fatal crash at Imola in 1994 was brought to a close.

Bellomo has interviewed five drivers who were involved in Sunday's opening lap pile-up at the second chicane. Paolo Ghislimberti died after being hit by debris from the smash.

Full Story in the news room.....