14 replies to this topic

[cfd_junkie]

hey all,

i am doing a cfd analysis of current F1 rear wing trends (mostly to do with end plates, and slots in end plates) and was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good spot to find approximate dimensions for current F1 rear wings. width, height, depth, and maybe how much of the depth is used by the airfoil are really all i need.

any suggestions are much appreciated.

if anyone wants a copy of the final report, let me know, and i will get it to you come april.

cheers,

mike

[rhm]

The dimensions of the volume that can be occupied by aerofoils is specified in the FIA regulations which can be downloaded from their website. Of course it's specified rather obliquely because it actually details volumes that cannot be occupied by bodywork rather than those that can, but it's all there. The end-plates are a bigger problem - they have a maximum volume as well, and since 2004 a minimum side-elevation area, but within that they are free, so you'll have to estimate the shape from photographs. Likewise, you won't find too much info on the actual shape of the aerofoil elements. Your best bet would be to get a copy of the latest Piola technical analysis covering the 2005 cars - rear wing rules haven't changed since then, save for the spacer nonsense last year.

[phantom II]

Some 18th scale models are fairly well detailed. They range in price from $50 to $250. Most appear to have launch aero packages.
Visit your local hobby shop or google 'Hotwheels' F1cars. Retail is about $70.
05 and 06 cars are available.
There are 1/8th scale and 1/12 scale models from $800 to $1600. Your local Ferarri dealer may let you examine them.

Originally posted by cfd_junkie
hey all,

i am doing a cfd analysis of current F1 rear wing trends (mostly to do with end plates, and slots in end plates) and was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good spot to find approximate dimensions for current F1 rear wings. width, height, depth, and maybe how much of the depth is used by the airfoil are really all i need.

any suggestions are much appreciated.

if anyone wants a copy of the final report, let me know, and i will get it to you come april.

cheers,

mike

[Powersteer]

cfd_junkie, do you want solid wings or flexible wings

[cfd_junkie]

thanks for the replies folks. i did take a look at the FIA regs before posting, but couldn't make much sense of them. like you said, the values are there... somewhere, but they are rather buried. also i'm afraid there aren't any ferrari dealerships near me (or within 400km of me), and as much as i've intended to buy a copy of a Piola book, it won't be in the cards until i become employed.

i am going to have to assume some values. (this exercise is very open-ended, and understanding some of the design concepts is more important than accuracy to a real f1 car) with that in mind, any thoughts on the following?:

width: 1 meter
height (of endplates) : 400mm
height (of wing surface) : 200mm
depth (of endplates) : 500mm
depth (of wing surface) : 400mm

the additional height is going to be below the wing surface, and the additional depth is going to be behind the wing surface.

thanks again for the input,
mike

[Chubby_Deuce]

You checked the Technical Regulations, right? The Sporting Regulations don't cover technical aspects.

[cfd_junkie]

yeah, i sifted through the following documents:

http://www.fia.com/r...F1_Drawings.pdf

http://www.fia.com/r...REGULATIONS.pdf

cheers

[imaginesix]

The following seem to be the relevant bits... Quite a bit more elaborate than the last time I looked at the regs in '02.

3.5 Width behind the rear wheel centre line:Bodywork width behind the rear wheel centre line must not exceed 1000mm. [maximum width of wing and endplates]
3.9 Bodywork between the rear wheels:

• 3.9.1 No bodywork situated between the rear wheel centre line and a point lying 330mm forward of it, and which is more than 100 mm from the car centre line, may be more than 600mm above the reference plane
• 3.9.2 No bodywork situated between the rear wheel centre line and a point lying 150mm behind it, and which is between 75 mm and 480 mm from the car centre line, may be located between 375 mm and 600 mm above the reference plane.

3.10 Height behind the rear wheel centre line:

• 3.10.1 No part of the car behind the rear wheel centre line may be more than 800mm [maximum height of top of wing] above the reference plane.
• 3.10.2 No bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line, and more than 150mm each side of the car centre line, may be less than 300mm above the reference plane.
• 3.10.3 Any bodywork more than 150mm behind the rear wheel centre line which is between 300mm and 600mm [minimum height of bottom of wing] above the reference plane, and between 75mm and 480mm from the car centre line, must lie in an area when viewed from the side of the car that is situated between 300mm and 375mm above the reference plane.
  When viewed from the side of the car no longitudinal cross section may have more than one closed section in this area.
• 3.10.4 Any bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line which is more than 600mm above the reference plane, and between 75mm and 480mm from the car centre line, must lie in an area when viewed from the side of the car that is situated between the rear wheel centre line [minimum depth of leading edge of wing] and a point 350mm [maximum depth of trailing edge of wing] behind it.
  When viewed from the side of the car, no longitudinal cross section may have more than two [maximum number of wing elements] closed sections in this area.
  Furthermore, the distance between adjacent sections at any longitudinal plane must not exceed 15mm at their closest position. In order to ensure that the relationship between these two sections cannot change whilst the car is in motion they must be bridged by means of rigid impervious supports (including any adjustment mechanism) arranged such that no part of the trailing edge of the forward section may be more than 250mm laterally from a support. These rigid supports must :
  - fully enclose the two complete sections such that their inner profile matches that of the two sections. Their outer profile must be offset from the inner profile by between 8 and 30mm and may not incorporate any radius smaller than 10mm (‘gurney’ type trim tabs may however be fitted between the supports) ;
  - not be recessed into the wing profiles ;
  - be arranged so that any curvature occurs only in a horizontal plane;
  - be between 2 and 3mm thick ;
  - be rigidly fixed to the two sections. Some form of adjustment mechanism between the sections may be incorporated for the sole purpose of allowing adjustment of the sections relative to one another whilst the car is in the pits ;
  - be constructed from a material with modulus greater than 50GPa.
  These supports will be ignored when assessing whether the car is in compliance with Articles 3.9.1, 3.9.2, 3.10.1 and 3.10.5.
• 3.10.5 No part of the car between 75mm and 480mm from the car centre line may be more than 500mm behind the rear wheel centre line.
  Any parts of the car less than 75mm from the car centre line and more than 500mm behind the rear wheel centre line must be situated between 200mm and 400mm above the reference plane.
• 3.10.6 In side view, the projected area of any bodywork lying between 300mm and 800mm above the reference plane and between the rear wheel centre line and a point 600mm behind it must be greater than 230 000 mm² [minimum area of endplates]

So to avoid spending the whole evening on it, I just looked at the drawings and it appears you are mostly right except the maximum depth of the wing is 350mm, in 2 elements.

[cfd_junkie]

one final question, how thick do you think that the endplates are? (this is in the cross car direction). my guess is 5mm, but i'm open to any opinion on that.

thanks again for all the input.

[imaginesix]

The width available for endplates is 20mm on each side. (1000m full wing width minus 480mm each side of the centerline for the wing elements).

The actual width of the endplates will probably vary according to local strength/weight requirements, but I doubt there is any section of the endplate that is the full 20mm thick (though the front wing endplates do have some very thick sections that direct the air laterally, so who knows). If the full 20mm space is fully exploited, then likely it is to shape the curve of the endplate to achieve the best L/D ratio in cooperation with the wing and rear tires.

[Greg Locock]

Slightly daft suggestion - wouldn't they shape the end plates (in plan view) to modify the yaw characteristics?

[desmo]

I'm probably missing your point Greg, but Wright mentions that RWEPs are useful against OS at speed.

[Greg Locock]

Well, i think that might be the point. I would expect the end plates to form part of the yaw sensiitvity of the airfoil system, as such I would not expect them to be constant width.

[imaginesix]

Aero performance in yaw is the explanation that is given for the slots, grooves and louvers that are sometimes seen on endplates. Truth or fiction? I can't tell, maybe cfd_junkie can?

[Greg Locock]

Looking at the Williams, the end plates appear to be constant width, but are cambered/twisted. That may be a function of the photography, it is not the best picture.