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The greatest motorcycle Grands Prix?


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#1 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 10:07

Of all the great battles that have taken place over the years in grand prix racing, which race, or races, would you rate as being amongst the best?
Some, you might have witnessed personally or on TV, and some you might have just read about, but a couple would have stuck in your mind because of the sheer intensity of the battle, or perhaps because of the racecraft displayed by the riders.

One of my favourite races was the 1981 British 500 GP at Silverstone which became a classic confrontation between Kenny Roberts and Jack Middelburg. That race had everything. Drama when Crosby crashed and then a 4 rider battle for the lead until only Jack and Kenny were left. I donĀ“t think one person who watched that race imagined Middleburg could pull it off on his private Suzuki, but after taking the lead in the closing stages he held off the American to record a brilliant victory. That race also had a special interest for me because our great South African world champion Kork Ballington was in the mix on his 500 Kawasaki, and certainly looked like a potential winner at one point until mechanical problems put him out..

The second one that springs to mind was the 1989, 500 Japanese GP in Suzuka between Kevin Schwantz and Wayne Rainey. They were, as most know, bitter rivals throughout their racing careers, so any direct confrontation was always more than just about a particular race win. Theirs was always an intense personal struggle, and no race, not even their Hockenheim clash, compared to Suzuka for the sheer intensity of the fight.

And finally, the last race of the 1980, 350 world championship at the Nurburgring between my fellow Southern African (Rhodesians claimed both Kork and Jon as our own :clap: ) , Jon Ekerold, and Anton Mang. The circumstances (it decided the world title) and the circuit made it special, as well as the incredible pace of the race, with Ekerold and Mang finishing over a minute ahead of third place man Johnny Cecotto, himself a 2 time world champion.

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#2 jcbc3

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 10:20

As seen on tv.

Not a classic or anything anyone else would find 'great' but to me it was exciting and the one GP that has stood out in my memory:

Hungary 1992.

Lawson winning from 50 seconds back in a race stopped and restarted by rain. He only won because he got the tire lottery right. But since I was a great fan it was still exciting to see if he could keep it upright and go on to win. He could and did.

#3 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 13:41

Two great GPs spring to mind - however I'm crappy at years but I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about.

British Grand Prix at Silverstone - fantastic battle between a number of riders which ended with Barry Sheene and Kenny Roberts with a very close finish. Roberts pipped Sheene. Sheene was described by Murray as "waiving" at Roberts (which of course was a V-sign).

Dutch TT at Assen - About 1980. Our family was in Guernsey on holiday and I knew it was being televised. We found a seafront pub with a sandpit and swimming pool for the kids, but more importantly an enormous TV screen. Horse racing was on so I asked the landlord if I could have the GP on. Real ale with the best motorcycle racing I'd ever seen. All conversation stopped as everyone in the pub sat and watched. Four or five lead changes every lap with, I think, Randy Mamola finally winning.

#4 Twin Window

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 15:26

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale

British Grand Prix at Silverstone - fantastic battle between a number of riders which ended with Barry Sheene and Kenny Roberts with a very close finish. Roberts pipped Sheene. Sheene was described by Murray as "waiving" at Roberts (which of course was a V-sign).

That was a cracker; 1979 I think...

There have been very few MotoGP races in the last few years that heve been poor, IMO, with perhaps Mugello '06 top of the pile.

Going back to the early 1990s, Eddie Lawson's win at the Hungaroring for Cagiva stands out in my mind. (Edit: as indeed already mentioned by jcbc!)

#5 andyb1963

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 15:47

Originally posted by Twin Window
That was a cracker; 1979 I think...

There have been very few MotoGP races in the last few years that heve been poor, IMO, with perhaps Mugello '06 top of the pile.

Going back to the early 1990s, Eddie Lawson's win at the Hungaroring for Cagiva stands out in my mind. (Edit: as indeed already mentioned by jcbc!)

Yes it was 79 , if you search antonys' posts he put up a link to a youtube video of the highlights about2 weeks ago .
I would also like to offer in addition to those already mentioned a 350 race at Mallory in 77 ( think it was Race of the Year ) In which the lead seemed to change several times on every lap. Leaders included N. Tuxworth , Clive Horton , Clive Padgett , Tony Head and a few more .
I would also bck ex Rhodie racer with the 350 GP at Nurburgring in 80 .That was something else but I think Jon describes it best in 'Privateer'.

#6 jgm

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 15:59

A race which has often been referred to as The Greatest Ever was the 1967 Senior TT in the Isle of Man and I was lucky enough to be there to see it. The race marked the occasion of the final show-down between Mike Hailwood (Honda) and Giacomo Agostini (MV) at the TT and it was truly epic. On the first lap Ago broke the lap record from a standing start and led Mike's ill handling Honda by nearly 12 seconds. Mike got the message and broke the lap record on the second lap bringing the gap down to 8.6 seconds. By the end of lap three the gap was down to two seconds as they came into the pits to refuel. Mike had to make a long stop as his twist-grip had become loose. He tried unsuccessfully to fix it but the result was a stop of nearly 50 seconds, 10 seconds longer than Ago's. The gap was now 15 seconds. Even with a loose throttle Mike pulled the gap back to 11.6 seconds on the fourth lap. On the fifth lap at Ramsey, 24 miles into the lap, Mike was reported to be leading by 1 second. But Ago fought back and at the Bungalow (31 miles) he was said to be 2.5 seconds ahead. And then suddenly Ago was gone with a broken chain so that Mike was able to sail through the final lap to win.

#7 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 16:14

Yes JGM. It took a brave man to have a full go on the Island with that Honda. But then, besides his unbelievable skill, Mike was also blessed with the heart of a lion. A really great race and one I think many of the older guys on here will remember well. I know I do :lol:

#8 bigrog

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 17:06

A great idea, "eRr". The trouble is trying to choose one.

I know that this is 'The Nostalgia Forum' and that we should be choosing one from a few years ago but I actually reckon the best GP I've seen was the 2006 GP of Portugal. The reason is you could not have written a better plot if it you'd written it for a film script. I won't bore you with it too much but, the championship leader taken out by his own team mate and then when it looked like the Italian star of the film looked like he was going to finally lead the championship and win the GP, some cheeky little whippersnapper of a Spaniard comes and takes the glory with a marvellous win by just two thousandth of a second having worked his way from eighth on the first lap! Now, that's a great GP!

The others mentioned were great too. The 1979 500 British race was great. The wet Hungarian with Lawson winning was fantastic but how about the so nearly British wins. For instance, the 1977 500 British GP when Steve Parrish looked like winning and 'threw it away'. Or, the 1986 250 British GP that Alan Carter threw away a certain victory in the wet by crashing. But the closest finish I have seen and it was shown recently on ESPN was the 1983 250 British GP which I watched from the outside of Woodote and the first five were covered by just 0.4 seconds. Jacques Bolles just won and got a Pernod victory. I was in the UK for a holiday so I was lucky to see it. Everything about that GP was just superb. The 125 race was also a marvellous scrap that Nieto just squeezed a victory.

The 1980 Nurburgring 350 GP by Jon Ekerold was absolutely fantastic and, IMO, ranks alongside Fangio's 1957 F1 win as the best race that circuit ever saw. Determination overcoming all the odds and with a lap that would have put him on the front row for the 500 race!

The 1981 500 British GP was great for me because Kork Ballington would have won that GP and that was great to see. He was easily able to lead until a disc valve shattered which was a problem they never had before or after. Kork still put up the fastest lap though.


The name of this thread is 'The greatest motorcycle Grand Prix' but if I was to nominate any race it would be the first national of the year in 1975 when Brits first saw Alan North. Having watched his future brother-in-law Jon Ekerold ride to an impressive 3rd in the 250 race on his European debut, Alan quietly went about his job and set about beating all the British short circuit stars with a fantastic win in the 350 final. I can remember him outbraking the leader on the last lap at the hairpin and take the victory but I can't remember who the second place man was. Anybody remember this race.

Finally, I've got to mention the great Ago versus Coop scrap in the RoTY 1971 when Coop put it over the MV for the first time. I still remember that huge tank slapper coming out of the esses when Cooper nearly threw it all away.

It would be nice to hear of some American or European non GP races. T54, Antony or Philipe or anybody. Can you regale us with some cracking tales of exciting races from your parts of the world.

#9 antony duprat

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 22:54

Originally posted by bigrog It would be nice to hear of some American or European non GP races. T54, Antony or Philipe or anybody. Can you regale us with some cracking tales of exciting races from your parts of the world. [/B]

these one(s) was not so bad(s)
http://www.youtube.c...related&search= :eek:
http://www.youtube.c...related&search= :eek:
And i like , of course , this last
http://www.youtube.c...related&search= :up:

#10 T54

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 03:53

In my lifetime, the 1967 500cc TT comes to mind as well as the 1963 Japanese GP in the 250cc class. That year, Tarquinio Provini and the Morini gave us a show that is still hard to equal today.

#11 philippe7

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 07:25

The Suzuka 1991 clip that Anthony posted the link to just above reminded me that the most "unlikely" Grand Prix I personally attended turned out to be the most exciting one.....late in the 1991 season, it was announced that a "second" french Grand Prix was going to be held at Le Mans in September , on a week-end when a European Championship meeting was scheduled, in replacement for the Brazil Grand Prix that the organisers had canceled at very short notice. I decided to go there at the last minute, the weather was superb, the whole meeting was exciting ( with notably an unknown young italian on a "scuderia italia" Aprilia trashing the opposition in the European 250 race.....Mats Biazzi or something, he was called......) but the feat of the day was an absolutely superb 500 GP, whith the five top factory riders ( Rayney, Kocinski, Doohan, Gardner and Schwantz ) battling it out in a tight bunch all the way to the last lap.....this early 90's period was really a golden one in my opinion.....

#12 subh

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:44

It may not be nostagic enough for this forum, but the 500 race at Phillip Island in 2001 was a great one, and the first 500 victory for Garry McCoy, in South Africa the year before, was also memorable. I havenā€™t been around this kind of thing long enough...

#13 rghojai

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:26

Again perhaps not sufficiently nostalgic, but Schwantz vs. Rainey in Japan '89 was unreal as race-long battles go and Schwantz vs. Rainey in Germany '91 was unreal for one pass.

#14 T54

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 14:26

Agostini VS Hailwood on the Benelli at Monza has to be one of the all-time great battles.

#15 rosemeyer

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 23:35

I still miss the sound of the 500 cc 2 strokes.

#16 TZ350

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 09:28

Originally posted by rosemeyer
I still miss the sound of the 500 cc 2 strokes.

Or 350s ;) add to that a grid full pumping out castrol r (30 or 40) ah the smell, ah the memmories :eek: ;)

#17 fines

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 18:00

Originally posted by rghojai
Again perhaps not sufficiently nostalgic, but Schwantz vs. Rainey in Japan '89 was unreal as race-long battles go and Schwantz vs. Rainey in Germany '91 was unreal for one pass.

I have never been known for being a Schwantz fan (actually, for Germans it's a no-no to confess "I like Schwantz" :lol: ), but that one pass was REALLY unreal, and was a recurrent topic of conversation for years - a triumph of determination over physics: abso-bloody-lutely phenomenal! :eek:

#18 picblanc

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 19:57

For me it would be the British 250GP in 1983 with 10 riders changing places every lap till the last lap an absolute thriller!!
and another 250 race at the old Hockenheim ring, about 1985/86? when again there was 8 or 10 riders in with a shout till the last lap.
Two fantastic races I can enjoy again and again as I have them saved to DVD!

ps nice to see bigrog's post a few back, still missed by me, and the rest of you I am sure. :(

#19 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 20:32

Originally posted by fines

I have never been known for being a Schwantz fan (actually, for Germans it's a no-no to confess "I like Schwantz" :lol: )


Yes indeed fines, particularly if you were a bloke :rotfl:
Maybe you could explain the joke to our English speaking members who may not understand. :clap:

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#20 nivola

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 22:12

Ralf Waldman on a 250 at Donington.

Its wet wet wet and he is on slicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#21 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 23:09

Originally posted by picblanc
For me it would be the British 250GP in 1983 with 10 riders changing places every lap till the last lap an absolute thriller!!
and another 250 race at the old Hockenheim ring, about 1985/86? when again there was 8 or 10 riders in with a shout till the last lap.
Two fantastic races I can enjoy again and again as I have them saved to DVD!

ps nice to see bigrog's post a few back, still missed by me, and the rest of you I am sure. :(


Yes Graham, isnĀ“t it odd that both Silverstone and Hockenheim have both been criticised for being flat and rather dull, uninteresting circuits, but both have produced more than their fair share of exciting battles. The 250 race you mention was a cracker. I was stood on the inside of Stowe that day and the position changes that took place entering that bend had to be seen to be believed. Quite breathtaking.
I was also there later in the day for the 500 event, and was witness to Norman Brown and Peter HuberĀ“s horrible accident. Terrible, terrible scenes.:cry:

Yes, Bigrogs lovely informative posts are definitely missed by us all.

#22 iharos

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 23:13

Mick Doohan - Hungary 1990 first GP win, pole position and lap record. We knew he was good, this proved it. Mighty Mick.

#23 fines

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 13:38

Originally posted by nivola
Ralf Waldman on a 250 at Donington.

Its wet wet wet and he is on slicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't it the other way round??? It started dry and he was one of only three or four to try wets, getting lapped sometime around half-distance and then catching up hand over fist, entering the last lap tenth or so and catching Olivier Jacque on the run to the flag... :up: I recall the TV commentators calling him every name in the book during the race, only to forget about all that in the closing minutes! :drunk: :rolleyes: :stoned:

Ah yes, the Schwantz fans are lovers of dick/willy/johnson/one-eyed-monster/you-know-what in German... :hehe: :p

#24 subh

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 14:46

Originally posted by fines
Wasn't it the other way round??? It started dry and he was one of only three or four to try wets, getting lapped sometime around half-distance and then catching up hand over fist, entering the last lap tenth or so and catching Olivier Jacque on the run to the flag...


Weā€™re talking about 2000. I remember the race, but have looked up the details. It started in light rain, then dried out, but then got very wet. Waldmann was on full wet Dunlops, came back from outside the top fifteen, and made up seven seconds on the last lap. I think he made ā€˜onlyā€™ two passes on that lap.

#25 exclubracer

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 20:11

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


Yes Graham, isnĀ“t it odd that both Silverstone and Hockenheim have both been criticised for being flat and rather dull, uninteresting circuits, but both have produced more than their fair share of exciting battles. The 250 race you mention was a cracker. I was stood on the inside of Stowe that day and the position changes that took place entering that bend had to be seen to be believed. Quite breathtaking.
I was also there later in the day for the 500 event, and was witness to Norman Brown and Peter HuberĀ“s horrible accident. Terrible, terrible scenes.:cry:

Yes, Bigrogs lovely informative posts are definitely missed by us all.


Yes I agree that the 83 Silverstone 250 race was one of the best ever, I must have been able to see you ex Rhodie racer as I was in the Stowe grandstand with more of a birds eye view, a cracking 500 race in prospect too until the Norman Brown/Peter Huber accident. The worst thing I have ever seen and I never went to another meeting until 2 years later. What a shame they wrecked Silverstone as a circuit just to please the F1 skateboarders. :cry: :cry: :cry:

#26 picblanc

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 23:39

Originally posted by exclubracer


Yes I agree that the 83 Silverstone 250 race was one of the best ever, I must have been able to see you ex Rhodie racer as I was in the Stowe grandstand with more of a birds eye view, a cracking 500 race in prospect too until the Norman Brown/Peter Huber accident. The worst thing I have ever seen and I never went to another meeting until 2 years later. What a shame they wrecked Silverstone as a circuit just to please the F1 skateboarders. :cry: :cry: :cry:


Posted before on main bike forum, but nice to remember Peter again. :( Photo taken during qualifying on the Saturday, 1983 Silverstone.
Posted Image
Photo copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

#27 exclubracer

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 03:23

picblanc do you have any photos of Norman Brown? I remember seeing him at the 82/83 TTs and he really was class on a customer RG500 and TZ2/350s, I think he could have been a serious challenger to Joey Dunlop for finest all-time road racer and a potential world champion, but for a cruel twist of fate.... :( :( :(

Cheers

Mick.

#28 picblanc

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:57

Originally posted by exclubracer
picblanc do you have any photos of Norman Brown? I remember seeing him at the 82/83 TTs and he really was class on a customer RG500 and TZ2/350s, I think he could have been a serious challenger to Joey Dunlop for finest all-time road racer and a potential world champion, but for a cruel twist of fate.... :( :( :(

Cheers

Mick.


Sadly not Mick, I was at Silverstone on the Sat only, and Norman came out late in the 500 qualifying session, and as usual by then all my film had gone, so I did not get one of him then, but I remember him clearly coz the colour of his bike that day was exactly the same as Franco Uncini Championship bike in 1982.
I never saw him anywhere before then either, a very sad and avoidable accident really IMHO, but we/I am getting off the thread here, perhaps we can carry it over to the motorcycle racing 1969-90 thread?

#29 raisinberry777

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 23:39

Might have to spoil things and put a few of some of the more recent races in here!

Let's clear up some things about the 250cc Donington 2000 race.

Jacque was on wet front/inter rear, Waldmann had both wets. On lap 17 (of 27), Waldmann was in 15th position, just over 100 seconds off the leader, Jacque. After lap 18, he was catching Jacque by 12-15 seconds a lap due to the sudden change of conditions in his favour. One must also note that Naoki Matsudo was doing nearly the same pace as Waldmann (and at some points even faster), on the same wet/wet combination. Waldmann started the last lap 3rd (behind Ukawa, who was on the same tyres as Jacque), nearly 12 seconds behind Jacque, finally passing him at Goddards (from a very long way away, see the picture below). I wish I could've watched that race live, but I wasn't exactly an old fella at the time and had really on just got into bike racing!

The gap from Jacque to Waldmann at Goddards on the final lap
Posted Image

This is an interesting little document for the 2000 Donington 250cc race, showing the gaps from the leader for every rider at the end of each lap:
http://resources.mot...ysis by lap.pdf

Another classic would be the 125cc race from Mugello 1999, San Donato never looked so scary!

Posted Image

And another would be the 125cc race from Catalunya 1998 - this was just a fantastic period in general for the 125 class, providing probably the best motorcycle racing I've seen. This one had about 16 riders battling for the lead all the way through, a particular highlight of the race being Alzamora coming from nowhere to take six riders at turn 1 to take the lead.

Posted Image

For similar reasons as the 2000 Donington 250cc race, one can't go past considering Hungary 92 to be a classic - especially with Eddie on the Cagiva. As mentioned earlier, the 2006 Estoril GP was a classic and maybe the best of modern times. Donington 2005 I also remember as being a great race.

Edited by raisinberry777, 19 September 2010 - 09:33.


#30 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:07

I was at the Old Hairpin in 2000 and Waldmann was brilliant though he had the right tyres. If I remember correctly, Rossi won his first big class race and McWill was 3rd on the overbored Aprilia? Brilliant ride from Jeremy who must have heard the crowd. I took my son who was 15 then and he was thrilled to see Bazza in the classic race (think he was 2nd) We were both at Indy last year too when Rossi beat Ago's record. It rained both days! The Donington one I remember as I had an old LC and had fun playing with the R1s etc on the A447 on the way home. As for the best race? Maybe one of the LC races (or all of them!) were the most exciting. I wonder what the result would be if the Moto GP boys pulled a set of keys from a hat?

David

#31 Rob

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 11:57

I think Stoner and Rossi at Laguna is going to be particularly well remembered :)

#32 raisinberry777

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:08

I think Stoner and Rossi at Laguna is going to be particularly well remembered :)


See now I could be wrong here, but this race seems highly overrated. Sure, it had some elements of a classic:
- The gargantuan battle between the two world champions we'd been waiting for
- Stoner being fastest by a long way all weekend but Rossi keeping up with him during the race
- A great pass (not wanting to start an argument)
- Stoner succumbing to the pressure (or crashing, whichever seems more dramatic).

However, I don't think that in this modern era it even comes close to 2006 race at Estoril.

#33 MoMurray

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 04:25

See now I could be wrong here, but this race seems highly overrated. Sure, it had some elements of a classic:
- The gargantuan battle between the two world champions we'd been waiting for
- Stoner being fastest by a long way all weekend but Rossi keeping up with him during the race
- A great pass (not wanting to start an argument)
- Stoner succumbing to the pressure (or crashing, whichever seems more dramatic).

However, I don't think that in this modern era it even comes close to 2006 race at Estoril.


The last lap of the 250 Italian GP from Mugello last Sunday was the best I've seen in a long while...

Mo


#34 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:25

The last lap of the 250 Italian GP from Mugello last Sunday was the best I've seen in a long while...

Mo

Agreed Mo. Five lead changes on the last lap isnĀ“t something you see every day. Great stuff. :up:


#35 jonnyspa27

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 16:35

Agreed, last weekend's 250 race reminds me why I love this sport!

#36 PaulMB

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 21:24

I've got several, mainly because I was involved in them:-

1987 F1 race at Misano, 1st race of the season and my bike won - :D
1987 F1 race at Donington, last race of the season and my bike won - :D

Sorry, humour me.

However these were also great:-

Schwantz first win at Suzuki in 1988
The Superbike race won by Frankie Chilli at Monza, after being in the dirt two laps from the end - sorry not strokers but... (can't remember the year)
The Eddie Hunagry race
The Silverstone Barry/Kenny race
The Silverstone Kennny/Jack race
The Bayliss/Edwards Superbike race where Edwards won the championship at Imola

#37 fil2.8

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 21:40

[quote name='PaulMB' date='Jun 6 2009, 22:24' post='3679839']
I've got several, mainly because I was involved in them:-

1987 F1 race at Misano, 1st race of the season and my bike won - :D
1987 F1 race at Donington, last race of the season and my bike won - :D

Sorry, humour me.

OK then Paul , your's won the first and then the last :up: , But what happened to the F1's between ???

Edited by fil2.8, 06 June 2009 - 21:44.


#38 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 12:39

Would the Swedish in '83 be worth consideration?


David

#39 stuavant

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 06:06

I think Stoner and Rossi at Laguna is going to be particularly well remembered :)



Abe's first GP at Suzuka?