46 replies to this topic

[RickSnow]

Hello everyone......

I am trying to find out as much as I can about the history of Corvette Grand Sport#005 during the time it was owned by Montrealer (ex?) Dave Greenblatt and Duval Chevrolet during the years 1965, 66 and 67. The book "Corvette Grand Sport" by Lowell Paddock and Dave Freidman seems to confuse Grand Sport 004 and 005 at times, as do other articles I have read, and I would really like to be able to understand exactly what transpired with #005 during it's short stay in Canada. I do hope your memories are better than mine these days. Any pictures of Grand Sport#005 racing at Saint Jovite out there? Thanks.......

Rick.

[Dave Greenblatt]

Hi Rick,

go to............... http://racingicons.com/gs/index.html

Click onto GS # 004 ......... you will find the history of this car........
Delmo Johnson owned the car at a certain point. I purchased #004 from him.........

if you continue thru the article going "forward" it will eventually make reference to me.

I do have some photos from Le Circuit and Harewood Acres, from 1965 which I can email to you.


Check your Atlas F1 email ........ for a note from me with my email address.

Regards,

Dave Greenblatt

[Ol'_Motorhead]

How's this for a cracked 40+ year old b&w image? Note on back states it was taken at St. Jovite in July, '65 @ the Labatt 50 race, M. Amiot driver.
The decal on the back window looks familiar - might it be from Sebring or Nassau?.
HTH.

[Jerry Entin]

Here is Dave Greenblatt's answer to the Grand Sport. It was a special tube frame Corvette type racer they called the Dailu MK5. Dave said it was very reliable and alot of fun to run. His good friend Luigi Cassiani helped him build this special.

Here is the Grand Sport Dave Greenblatt ran and his Dailu Mk5.
all photos Dave Greenblatt Collection.

[Ol'_Motorhead]

Jerry:
Seeing your post rang a bell in the old noggin that I had a slide of Greenee's car. Here it is in Duval's paddock area at the Player's Quebec in St. Jovite in Sept.,'64. I never realized it was a Dailu, I thought it was a modified stingray ragtop! I see now it had knockoff wire wheels which I doubt were ever a Corvette option.
Cheers.

[Ol'_Motorhead]

I checked the '65 Sebring program and there were two Corvette GS Protoypes. Car#1 entered by Ridgeway Racing, Arlington, TX. There's likely a Mecom Racing connection there. The drivers are listed as Dalmo Johnson, David Morgan and Edmund Sevadvian. Interestingly enough the displacement is listed as 6.78L (414 c.i.), not 5.26L (377 c.i.). The #2 car was entered by George Wintersteen and driven by him and Peter Goetz. As an aside, The 2007 Twelve Hour was run today, some 42 years after I first attended there as a greenhorn reporter.
Cheers.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Ol'_Motorhead
I checked the '65 Sebring program and there were two Corvette GS Protoypes. Car#1 entered by Ridgeway Racing, Arlington, TX. There's likely a Mecom Racing connection there. The drivers are listed as Dalmo Johnson, David Morgan and Edmund Sevadvian. Interestingly enough the displacement is listed as 6.78L (414 c.i.), not 5.26L (377 c.i.). The #2 car was entered by George Wintersteen and driven by him and Peter Goetz. As an aside, The 2007 Twelve Hour was run today, some 42 years after I first attended there as a greenhorn reporter.
Cheers.

According to the newest issue of Vintage Motorsports one of the Grand Sports actually had a exp. iron 454 and the other had a smaller engine but as I do not have it here I cannot say exactly what.
That issue has an incredible write-up on the sixty five Sebring, a time when men were men, and races were not red flagged even if it took fifteen plus minutes per lap.
Bob

[Jerry Entin]

Rob: Here is Dave Greenblatt in the Grand Sport.

Rick: Hope this is what you were looking for. 1965 Le Circuit 1st . Dave Greenblatt driving.
all photos Dave Greenblatt Collection.

[RickSnow]

Man....you guys are great. I can't thank you enough for the pictures and replies to my post. Dave Greenblatt has even sent me a private message. It seems I was mislead in believing that it was Grand Sport 005 that Dave once owned. Now that Dave has informed me that it was actually 004 that he once owned and raced in Montreal, I'm hoping to be able to gather enough information to write an article about the time 004 spent in Canada and particularly 004's time in Montreal. I hope to be able to contact Jacques Duval and/or Jacques Coutures and/or anyone else you guys might suggest. Please keep the information coming it is very much appreciated.

Rick Snow.

[Dave Greenblatt]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe

According to the newest issue of Vintage Motorsports one of the Grand Sports actually had a exp. iron 454 and the other had a smaller engine but as I do not have it here I cannot say exactly what.
That issue has an incredible write-up on the sixty five Sebring, a time when men were men, and races were not red flagged even if it took fifteen plus minutes per lap.
Bob

Hey Bob,

The car which I owned, the ex Delmo Johnson GS, #004 ??? had one of the Traco small block
chevys....... 377ci, with 4 webers,,,,

Dave

[Dave Greenblatt]

Originally posted by Ol'_Motorhead


Jerry:
Seeing your post rang a bell in the old noggin that I had a slide of Greenee's car. Here it is in Duval's paddock area at the Player's Quebec in St. Jovite in Sept.,'64. I never realized it was a Dailu, I thought it was a modified stingray ragtop! I see now it had knockoff wire wheels which I doubt were ever a Corvette option.
Cheers.

Hey Ol

Nice photo..... do you have any other photos of the Dailu Mk V..... or know if the car still exists???

We know the Dailu Mk I lives in Montreal, and the Mk II out west in the US....

these 3 cars were the most exciting of the 5


I want to have my dailu.com website updated...... it was started by some
fans a fews ago.... and never completed..... take a peak

thanks

Dave

[FLB]

Originally posted by RickSnow
I hope to be able to contact Jacques Duval and/or Jacques Coutures and/or anyone else you guys might suggest. Please keep the information coming it is very much appreciated.

As far as I know, Jacques Duval and Duval Motors are unrelated.

Mr. Greenblatt, it is an honor to be able to discuss with you on this forum





Dailu Mk1 at last year's Sommet des Légendes.

[Dave Greenblatt]

Originally posted by Ol'_Motorhead


How's this for a cracked 40+ year old b&w image? Note on back states it was taken at St. Jovite in July, '65 @ the Labatt 50 race, M. Amiot driver.
The decal on the back window looks familiar - might it be from Sebring or Nassau?.
HTH.

I 'm quite sure the decal was from Nassau Speed week......... it was one of the 3 cars brought to compete there (think it was '63..... the GM effort, before the were made to give them up..... )

Dave

[Dave Greenblatt]

Originally posted by FLB

As far as I know, Jacques Duval and Duval Motors are unrelated.

HELLO AGAIN....

... you are right NO relationship between Jacques Duval and Duval Chevy/Olds

AFTER I LEFT THE GS #004 IN 1965......
Jacques Couture took over my post at the wheel of #004


I THEN RAN A 1965 PRODUCTION CORVETTE,

AND WAS SUCCESSFUL IN BEATING FORD'S FACTORY TEAM MUSTANG 350s, AT LE CIRCUIT,
THERE FIRST DEFEAT......

.....ON MY WAY TO DRIVING THAT DECEMBER, (1965) IN the 250LM FERRARI AT NASSAU, (for
Ferrari Canada, UAP, Firestone, BP Oil... 1965 thru 1967...... and then in the fall of 1966/67
one of 6 factory Lemans DINO 206s.

IF JERRY ASKS I WILL SEND HIM PHOTOS WHICH CAN BE POSTED.... (i've tried.... just can't do it......... duhhhh

Hope this gives a little more input

Dave

[HistoricMustang]

Gentlemen, how about the "Augusta 14" Corvette Grand Sport.

Can anyone advise the chassis number and why "Augusta" was applied to this car and if this car is still campaigned? Could the name be from the USRRC event on March 1, 1964 in Augusta? Or, from some other source. I would like to contact the owner and have it returned to Augusta for one of our annual events.

As always, thanks!

Henry



Photograph of the Grand Sport sitting in an Augusta Motel parking lot courtesy of AIRPS historian Joe Cawley.

Also, am sure most have visited this site: http://grandsportreg.../63_history.htm

[tomkatf]

Any information on this GS?? Immaculately turned out, a real beauty...Real or "Repro"?? Photo taken at a vintage race at Riverside c. 1986



Best,
Tom

[Cynic2]

The Grand Sport raced by Don Yenko at Augusta was chassis 004. The Lowell Paddock/Dave Friedman Grand Sport book identifies it as being owned by Grady Davis. Delmo Johnson bought 004 from Davis, apparently immediately after the Augusta race, and prepared it for Sebring. where it raced as #2 (Post 6 above).

The #1 car at Sebring was 003, which Mecom had sold to Ed Sevadjian from Arlington, Texas. Sevadjian raced it in SCCA's SW Division, here at Hammond, Louisiana in May, 1965:

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Cynic2
The Grand Sport raced by Don Yenko at Augusta was chassis 004. The Lowell Paddock/Dave Friedman Grand Sport book identifies it as being owned by Grady Davis. Delmo Johnson bought 004 from Davis, apparently immediately after the Augusta race, and prepared it for Sebring. where it raced as #2 (Post 6 above).

Thanks!

Henry

[Dennis Currington]

Here is #004 Sunday at Monterey Pre-Historics driven by Bruce Canepa. John Morton will be driving it and Scarab this weekend at the Historics. The Scarab dominated it class in the Sunday race. Both are owned by Miles Collier.
http://classicracing...eyPreHistorics/

[Ray Bell]

I may be confused as well... but...

It seems that this thread has confused No 4 and No 5 again! The original question was about No 5, but No 4 was mentioned and suddenly became the main thrust of things.

And am I reading it right that Yenko is now credited with having No 4 when it was supposed to be in Canada driven by our new member?

Sorry, more than a bit confused here... but I always loved the Gran Sport Corvettes!


Oh yeah, 377 cubic inches is a lot more than 5.26 litres. Maybe 6.26?

[Lee Nicolle]

377 sounds rather big to me for 1965 for a small block and std 327 is 5360cc and 377 is 6180cc

[Ray Bell]

No, not that hard...

These were very special engines built by GM's experimental/race division. They could do that easily, after all, they would already have had the 350 development program under way and possibly the 400 too.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
377 sounds rather big to me for 1965 for a small block and std 327 is 5360cc and 377 is 6180cc

a 377 is a fairly natural variant on the small-block Chevy... 4.00-inch bore (same as 327) with a 3.75-inch stroke. (Standard 327 stroke is 3.25 inches, so this is a "half-inch stroker.") Everything fits just fine except the no's 1,2,5, and 6 connecting rod shoulders may need to be ground for clearance with the camshaft lobes if the cam is ground on the original base circle.

[Ray Bell]

I guess the cam sits higher in the 400 SBC then?

[McGuire]

All production SBCs use the same crank C/L to cam C/L height. On the production 400 SBC (4.125" bore x 3.75" stroke) they used a funny little connecting rod with a girlish shoulder to obtain the necessary clearance. This rod is further identified by its slightly shorter center-to-center length -- 5.565 inches rather than the standard 5.700 inches.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I may be confused as well... but...

It seems that this thread has confused No 4 and No 5 again! The original question was about No 5, but No 4 was mentioned and suddenly became the main thrust of things.

And am I reading it right that Yenko is now credited with having No 4 when it was supposed to be in Canada driven by our new member?

Sorry, more than a bit confused here... but I always loved the Gran Sport Corvettes!


Oh yeah, 377 cubic inches is a lot more than 5.26 litres. Maybe 6.26?

Sorry Ray, I brought on the confusion. Perhaps an individual thread on No. 4 was in order.

Just to confirm. Dennis are we saying this is No. 4: http://classicracing...eyPreHistorics/

If so I will attempt to contact the owner for an invitation to present the car in Augusta.

Thanks to all.

Henry

[Lee Nicolle]

A new one on me and I have played with and read up on small blocks for 20 + years.
3 3/4 cranks are common now ofcourse but not in 65. 400s never came out until about 71 and have larger diameter mains than a 350
In 65 they were still using small journal blocks too

[Ray Bell]

And did you play with aluminium block versions, Lee?

These were very special factory engines. In an era in which drag racers used to routinely weld up half-inch stroker cranks, is it not likely that a factory could make them for a short run of factory Special race cars?

[ralt12]

As an aside, a bare 1959 aluminum Chevrolet block sold on eBay a few months ago (I missed..agghhh)...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And did you play with aluminium block versions, Lee?

These were very special factory engines. In an era in which drag racers used to routinely weld up half-inch stroker cranks, is it not likely that a factory could make them for a short run of factory Special race cars?

Quite right. This is Chevrolet R&D we are talking about. They could build anything they wanted, including aluminum blocks and heads. The original Grand Sport engine was to be a dual-plug hemi based on the SBC but that never quite happened. A 377 SBC was installed in CERV I and did over 200 mph at the Milford Proving Grounds in '64.

And as you say, stroker cranks were pretty common in smallblock Chevrolets from the start. The Scarabs were pretty successful with 339 CID with a 283 block and a stroker crank. Traco did some 5/8 strokers for the road race crowd, and in the hot rod world there were all manner of welded and metal-sprayed stroker cranks. Another hot rod trick was butchering up a Studebaker V8 crank to fit. With a 4.00 inch bore, the 3.625-inch stroke yielded 364 cubic inches.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by ralt12
As an aside, a bare 1959 aluminum Chevrolet block sold on eBay a few months ago (I missed..agghhh)...

What did it go for, do you know? Would be fairly useless except as a garage trophy, but I'd bid on it. I have 1.5 pairs of '60 aluminum heads I may be persuaded to part with...go ahead, highball me.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And did you play with aluminium block versions, Lee?

These were very special factory engines. In an era in which drag racers used to routinely weld up half-inch stroker cranks, is it not likely that a factory could make them for a short run of factory Special race cars?

Sorry to move off topic a bit but Ray has a very good point.

Just about any size engine can be produced using sand castings.

I found this one interesting at about 6:30 into this YouTube:

Henry

[Cynic2]

This is getting even further off topic, I guess, but I think it was Mark Donohue's book that told how Reynolds (?) Aluminum cast aluminum blocks for Chevrolet -- I think they were 427s but I don't have time to find the book right now. The blocks were sent to Chevy for R&D racing projects, but somehow ended up on the production line, so there are a few 427 Chevy sedans or hardtops or something which got out with the aluminum engines, and there are no records of which cars.

They probably went back to the dealers for oil leakage -- those were probably some funny warranty tickets -- but there may still be some 1960 Chevys out there with aluminum engines...and the owners don't know it.

Start watching eBay Motors for a Chevy sedan which seem to sit waaay too high in the front....

[Dennis Currington]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Sorry Ray, I brought on the confusion. Perhaps an individual thread on No. 4 was in order.

Just to confirm. Dennis are we saying this is No. 4: http://classicracing...eyPreHistorics/

If so I will attempt to contact the owner for an invitation to present the car in Augusta.

Thanks to all.

Henry

Henry,

Yes, the GS with the #3 on the door is the #004 under the hood. It belongs to Miles Collier of the Collier Collection. Tell him he can only bring it to your event if John drives it .

[HistoricMustang]

Thanks Dennis.

We want to invite the car/owner and a member of the Yendo family to the annual event in September 2009 (too late for this year) and have the car presented on the former circuit and view Don's name in granite.



Henry

[Lee Nicolle]

The alloy 427s were used in ZL1 Camaros in 69. There was 69 cars produced. I believe a couple of engines also found there way into road race Corvettes.
Yes Ray I have seen alloy factory small blocks but they would be a collectors peice these days as they were not very strong. Especially in comparison to the miriad of modern alloy blocks which are stronger and lighter.
For you TNF people read the Bob Jane racecars thread about the ZL1 he raced in 70 and on

[Lee Nicolle]

The Mclaren CanAm cars also used alloy 427s, quite probably the same basic engines though they were pure race motors wheras the ZL1s were [very special] road cars.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
The Mclaren CanAm cars also used alloy 427s, quite probably the same basic engines though they were pure race motors wheras the ZL1s were [very special] road cars.

The alloy Can-Am engines were as streetable as the ZL-1 engines.
The only truly exotic ones were the linerless engines, and there only exotic feature was the alloy they were made of.

The main difference between a 427 alloy engine and a 430 Can-Am engine was the bore as delivered and I believe the linered Can-Am engines could be opened up more than the ZL-1.

I.e. the ZL-1 was as much a race engine as the later Can-Am blocks; vice versa for streetability.

Tonawanda did the casting, was that for both linered and 390 alloy engines?

[watkins]

A resident of a small town, where I grew up, in upstate New York owned a Corvette Grand Sport. His name is Dave Erwin and it was Grand Sport number 5. He owned it from 1967 till, as I remember, in the late 1970's or 1980's. I once had a Car and Driver magazine with an article, by Brock Yates, on Erwin's Grand Sport and a road test they did with his car on a then uncompleted 4 lane highway behind Erwin's house. A flood hit our village in 1972 and my copy of that Car and Driver along with a lot of my racing memorabilia was lost (the Grand Sport was also in water). Years later I knew Erwin had sold the car but it wasn't till the Ford GT reunion at Watkins Glen in 1999 that I learned, after speaking with a Grand Sport owner, his former car was in the starting stage of restoration as we spoke. I couldn't believe it when, about 5 years ago, I found that same Car and Driver article, on Erwin's Grand Sport, on the internet. And it's still posted today. It also has a link to a GM spec sheet of the Grand Sport series. I know it's not the early history that Rick Snow is looking for, but the 1967 Car and Driver article gives a bit of history on the Grand Sports and in particular, Erwin's number 5 and the changes (engine) made to it. It's a interesting perspective on how valued the Grand Sport was even then, in 1967.


Car and Driver article
Grand Sport Spec sheet(A small Adobe document (pdf file) that you can save or open on your PC)

(Edit: corrected link to the Car and Driver article)

Edited by watkins, 02 April 2011 - 22:21.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Cynic2
This is getting even further off topic, I guess, but I think it was Mark Donohue's book that told how Reynolds (?) Aluminum cast aluminum blocks for Chevrolet -- I think they were 427s but I don't have time to find the book right now. The blocks were sent to Chevy for R&D racing projects, but somehow ended up on the production line, so there are a few 427 Chevy sedans or hardtops or something which got out with the aluminum engines, and there are no records of which cars.

As Donohue tells the story in his book, these were chemically milled (acid dipped) cast-iron blocks.

[watkins]

The March/April 2011 edition of Vintage Motorsport has an article on the Corvette Grand Sport 005. The #005 Grand Sport is also featured the cover:
Vintage Motorsport Magazine

[Jesper O. Hansen]

The March/April 2011 edition of Vintage Motorsport has an article on the Corvette Grand Sport 005. The #005 Grand Sport is also featured the cover:
Vintage Motorsport Magazine

What would be the actual weight of a Grand Sport during their days?

http://www.motorauth...-up-for-auction

This link suggest a target weight of 1800Ib/818 kgs, which would be very competitive but seems unlikely for the real deal. I'm searching for the information for a pair of Revell 1/32 slot cars replicating chassis' #004 and 005.

Jesper

[Bjorn Kjer]

1962 test and 1963 race between 2283 and 2154,5 US pounds. For Nassau 1964 Penske took of a further 300 pounds.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

1962 test and 1963 race between 2283 and 2154,5 US pounds. For Nassau 1964 Penske took of a further 300 pounds.

Would the Penske saving have something to do with chopping off the roof?

Jesper

[Bjorn Kjer]

No , the jacking and water pressure system was removed giving it a weight of 1900 pounds.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

No , the jacking and water pressure system was removed giving it a weight of 1900 pounds.

¨
So, these 6.2 550 bhp cars weighted around a ton!?

Jesper

[motorsporthistoryaddict]

Would the Penske saving have something to do with chopping off the roof?

Jesper

To corroborate Bjorn's information and address the roof chopping question:

Roger Penske's Grand Sport 005 didn't have its roof removed; only GS 001 and 002 did. Grand Sport 005 is the car which was rebuilt and lightened by Bill Scott in Penske's shop (circa Sept. '64) for Roger Penske to drive at Nassau in December, 1964. Modifications to 005 as previously stated by Bjorn included removing the automatic jacking and water pressure systems.

During January, 1964, while still retained by Zora Arkus-Duntov, GS 001 and 002 had their tops removed in the interest of reducing frontal area in search of a greater top speed at Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans, all of which were being considered for 1964, but the plans were canceled by GM management as far as 001 and 002 were concerned. Roger Penske did have both GS 001 and 002 pass through his hands sometime in February, 1966. GS 002 went to George Wintersteen almost directly, but GS 001 finally made it to Sebring with the Penske team in March, 1966, complete with a "de-tuned" TRACO-prepared 500 HP 427 cid Mark IV engine after Dick Guldstrand had race-prepped the car following its 2-year retirement.

Regarding the weight of the GS Corvettes, a quote attributed to Roger Penske describing GS 005 at the time of the Bahamas Speed Weeks in 1964, said "The Grand Sport weighs in at about 2,100 pounds, but ours was a lot lighter." Page 81 of the Friedman/ Paddock book listed below says of GS 005 at Nassau '64: "When it was complete, the car weighed in at about 1,900 pounds, some 300 pounds less than normal."

Sources: Karl Ludvigsen's "Corvette - America's Star-Spangled Sports Car" Chapter 13 along with Dave Friedman and Lowell C. Paddock's "Corvette Grand Sport" Chapter 6. The only discrepancy between these two accounts is that the Ludvigsen book has Penske's team using GS 001 at Sebring '66, with Wintersteen acquiring GS 002, while the Friedman/ Paddock book has the the info reversed.

Craig