20 replies to this topic

[lustigson]

I've seen several sources each naming the BMW Sauber cars differently. The FIA has the make 'BMW Sauber' on it's season entry list, with engines name 'BMW'. Formula1.com just talks about 'BMW' in their Australia results. Autosport stats 'BMW Sauber' in the race results, while Forix sort of copies the FIA with 'BMW Sauber' as make and 'BMW' as engine name in the Oz entry list. My question is, what should the constructor name be?

• 'BMW'
• 'BMW Sauber' or
• 'BMW Sauber-BMW' -- or, as Forix would put it: 'BMW Sauber/BMW'?

[Hacklerf]

Alpha, Bravo, Tango MW Sauber.

im confused.

[Clatter]

BMW Sauber

[Just]

I believe it's BMW Sauber, but I don't understand why. Why doesn't BMW just drop the Sauber part, especially now that they're getting good results?

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Just
I believe it's BMW Sauber, but I don't understand why. Why doesn't BMW just drop the Sauber part, especially now that they're getting good results?

Because they want to maintain a sense of history to the team they bought out. Can't see a problem with that, and applaud the fact that they didn't just wipe the slate clean and swallow everything with a corperate image makeover.

[lustigson]

Originally posted by Clatter
... applaud the fact that they didn't just wipe the slate clean and swallow everything with a corperate image makeover.

Second that. And wasn't it was part of the deal with Peter Sauber to keep the name for a number of seasons? I do think that the Sauber name will eventually disappear, though. :

[macoran]

The teams site is http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com

Should say enough about how it is really named.

[Owen]

When they win a race (and it will be a case of when not if), expect the word 'Sauber' to slowly dissappear!

[MattFoster]

I like the fact they kept the Sauber name and I really hope then dont drop it once they start winning. Its a feeble hope but it would be nice if they didnt

[lustigson]

Originally posted by macoran
The teams site is http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com

Should say enough about how it is really named.

I understand how the team call themselves: 'BMW Sauber F1 Team'. But how would the FIA call the team as a constructor. They state that the car make comes before the engine name on entry forms et al. So, if the car make is 'BMW Sauber' and the engine name is 'BMW', that makes the constructor 'BMW Sauber-BMW', doesn't it? I looks silly, I know, but it's no different from 'McLaren-Mercedes', 'Super Aguri-Honda' and 'Spyker-Ferrari'.

On a side note: I saw that the FIA states on it's season entry list that the make of McLaren's cars is 'McLaren Mercedes', which would make the constructor's name 'McLaren Mercedes-Mercedes'.

[lukywill]

it´s marios super bvê.

[djned]

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Alpha, Bravo, Tango MW Sauber.

im confused.

why are you bringing mark webber into this?

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by lustigson

I understand how the team call themselves: 'BMW Sauber F1 Team'. But how would the FIA call the team as a constructor. They state that the car make comes before the engine name on entry forms et al. So, if the car make is 'BMW Sauber' and the engine name is 'BMW', that makes the constructor 'BMW Sauber-BMW', doesn't it? I looks silly, I know, but it's no different from 'McLaren-Mercedes', 'Super Aguri-Honda' and 'Spyker-Ferrari'.

On a side note: I saw that the FIA states on it's season entry list that the make of McLaren's cars is 'McLaren Mercedes', which would make the constructor's name 'McLaren Mercedes-Mercedes'.

The engines are made by the team though, they don't buy them from themselves. Just as Ferrari do. Its not Ferrari-Ferrari, it's not BMW Sauber-BMW Sauber, Honda-Honda, Renault-Renault or Toyota-Toyota. You should have asked this question when they were with Williams, because that should have been BMW.Williams-BMW, and I believe it actually was - though you wouldn't see it like that in most lists, because most people see the silliness, only in the official ones where the engine is not the same as the team. my 2 cents anyway

[Brano Loewenstein]

The name of the Williams team, when they had BMW engines, was BMW Williams F1 or something like that. However the name of the car was just Williams, or Williams-BMW. Just like Ferrari team is called Scuderia Ferrari, but name of the car is Ferrari.

[united]

Doesn't Mr.Sauber still own about 20% of the team?

[DSP]

Just (trying) to set things straight:

Team name and constructor name are two different things.

Take for example Toyota:

Team Name: "Panasonic Toyota F1 "
Constructor Name: "Toyota "
Engine: "Toyota "

So in BMW's case we have:
Team Name: "BMW Sauber F1 Team "
Constructor Name: "BMW "
Engine: "BMW "

I guess that if you wanted to refer both the constructor and the engine you would say "BMW / BMW", but, as le chat noir has stated, the name is only refered once when it is the exact same name.

.... just my 2 cents....

[lustigson]

Originally posted by DSP
Just (trying) to set things straight:

Team name and constructor name are two different things.

Take for example Toyota:

Team Name: "Panasonic Toyota F1 "
Constructor Name: "Toyota "
Engine: "Toyota "

So in BMW's case we have:
Team Name: "BMW Sauber F1 Team "
Constructor Name: "BMW "
Engine: "BMW "

I guess that if you wanted to refer both the constructor and the engine you would say "BMW / BMW", but, as le chat noir as stated, the name is only refered once when it is the exact same name.

.... just my 2 cents....

You make my point... almost. Because the name of a constructor is, I believe, made up of the 'make' of the car plus the engine name. And in their 2007 entry list the FIA refer to the 'make' of the car being 'BMW Sauber', whilst the engine is 'BMW'. It is also the way Forix handles BMW's factory team. So, wouldn't this make the constructor 'BMW Sauber-BMW'?

[RiDE]

Ironically, I associate the Sauber name with Mercedes.

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by RiDE
Ironically, I associate the Sauber name with Mercedes.

Me too.

[bira]

Originally posted by DSP
Just (trying) to set things straight:

Team name and constructor name are two different things.

No, they're not. There is only one official name, and that's the entrant - which, according to the regulations, is a constructor.

The ONLY official names in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championship are:

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
ING RenaultF1 Team
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
Honda Racing F1 Team
BMW Sauber F1 Team
Panasonic Toyota Racing
Red Bull Racing
AT&T Williams
Scuderia Toro Rosso
Spyker F1 Team *
Super Aguri F1 Team

(Spyker have renamed themselves during the Australian GP, however officially they are still branded "Spyker F1 Team" because that is the name entered into the 2007 F1 world championship).

As for BMW Sauber, that is how most would refer to the team by name. And, they are powered by a BMW engine. There is no such thing as a constructor "BMW" or a chassis built by "BMW" - but some may refer to the BMW Sauber team as just "BMW", and I doubt anyone would find that confusing.

[DSP]

Originally posted by bira


No, they're not. There is only one official name, and that's the entrant - which, according to the regulations, is a constructor.

The ONLY official names in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championship are:

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
ING RenaultF1 Team
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
Honda Racing F1 Team
BMW Sauber F1 Team
Panasonic Toyota Racing
Red Bull Racing
AT&T Williams
Scuderia Toro Rosso
Spyker F1 Team *
Super Aguri F1 Team

(Spyker have renamed themselves during the Australian GP, however officially they are still branded "Spyker F1 Team" because that is the name entered into the 2007 F1 world championship).

As for BMW Sauber, that is how most would refer to the team by name. And, they are powered by a BMW engine. There is no such thing as a constructor "BMW" or a chassis built by "BMW" - but some may refer to the BMW Sauber team as just "BMW", and I doubt anyone would find that confusing.

I never used the word "official"...

In my opinion they are still two different things (granted, FIA only uses one).

To my view, Constructor is something that is stable during all the season while the Team name may have to change if there is a change in the title sponsor (not likely, i know, but possible). This would, of course, require FIA approval but, somehow, i cannot see FIA refusing, for example, Toyota to change it's Team name if, for some (wild) reason, Panasonic, went bankrupt and Toyota needed to find a new tiltle sponsor during the season....

No one could seriously sugest that if a team had to change it's Team name during the season, it would see it's Constructor points starting to count from zero, because of being a new (at least in it's name) Team .

This would be a case of different Team name but same Constructor . So, i do think there is a difference even if not "official".