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Matra F3 and F2


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#51 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 19:16

Itwas one of the first sponsor "extra sportif" sponsor.

In 1967, the team "Crio Tournesol" engaged two Matra MS5 for Jabouille and Philippe Vidal in the F3 french championship.

Here, Jean-Pierre Jabouille in the Reims F3 race.

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#52 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 09:35

Just find an interesting pic of the Matra MS1 of Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (third at Nogaro 1965)

The man who seat on the bonnet is the chairman of Matra Marcel Chassagny. It's the father of the involment of Matra in racing

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#53 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 09:47

The same, Marcel Chassagny, in his working suit...

Don't look so quiet...

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#54 Julian Pratt

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:32

I have just come back to the Nostalgia Board, and have been following the threads about the Matra MS5 cars and I was very pleased to see the picture of Jean Pierre Jabouille at Rheims in 1967.

My first real motor racing job was as the only English mechanic in the Team Crio Tournesel team in 1967, so I have some good memories of that race which was Jabouilles first F3 win. It was also mine! and Jean Pierre was fresh out of Renault Gordini so it was a great day! The French really went to town, with the military band playing after the race, on the start line, and the French national anthem etc..

A french car, a french driver, a french team and in France! And they had socked it to all the English teams and cars!

It really was a great moment! Jean Pierre had always been in the leading group and on the last lap, had timed the slip stream just right, and a few yards from the line made his move. He had to take to the pit road to complete the pass (no barrier!) and swept up the pit lane waving his fist. We were doing our own dancing jig in the pit road, and he acknowleged us as he passed.

A great day!

#55 Julian Pratt

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 11:11

To try and resolve the issue about MS5, MS6 and MS7 cars, from my memory I seem to recall that the MS5 in 1966 had 6" front and 8" rear tyres with quite heavy wheels

For 1967 they produced the same chassis but with wider 8" and 10" wheels of a different design with new uprights. These cars were called MS6 (I think). Jaussaud and Pescorolo had these, and in Team Crio, Vidal had them. The second Crio car (initially Robert Challoy) had the older wheels and uprights. Jaboullie had this car after Challoy was fired, and his sucess at Rhiems was probably helped by the narrow wheels!

Jabouille finally got the bigger wheels and uprights for the final race at the Guards Trophy race at Brands Hatch, but crashed in practise and broke his arm.

#56 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:11

Very intersesting, Julian

Do you know how many race had run the Crio team ??
I think it was a very new way of sponsoring at the time with Crio who was a washing powder mark !

Have you keep some pic ??

#57 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:21

Julian,

an other fine pic, in the same race, of YOUR matra MS5

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#58 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 18:28

Here is a Matra MS5 tub, built with aircraft industry know how.

It was draw by Paul Carillo on a Jacques Hubert design.

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#59 Julian Pratt

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 19:55

Another great picture!

As far as I know the Crio Team was created originally by Robert Challoy, who was a fairly average driver who raced a Brabham BT15 (I think) in 1966. He ran a garage in the south of Paris.

He must have met Tony Kilburn in his travels. Tony was supposedly the Brabham-Honda 1966 F2 chief mechanic. From what I understood Robert had done the work of suggesting that Crio sponser an F3 team. So the idea was really his, and in return he wanted a drive!

I think that Tony introduced Philippe Vidal to the team, and Philippe came with a reasonable track history. I was introduced to Tony through Bert Ray who worked for Pierre Bardinon and Mas de Clos.

I had no knowledge of single seater cars, so it was a steep learning curve! We won the first race at Albi, but things went downhill soon after. Robert Challoy was very slow, Tony Kilburn was struggling and Philippe was expecting to beat the works Matra's!

Philippe organised a coup and got everyone fired except him and me! We started again with Bert Ray helping and took Jean Pierre on instead of Robert.

Robert was very angry about this and I was unlucky enough to be having a meal in a resturant when Robert and his friends arrived, dragged me outside and blows were exchanged!

Crio just kept the support going through all this!

We did the full French Championship with some consistant results behind the works cars, but not enough wins. We also did some races outside France.

In hindsight, Crio were ahead of their time. We had a white car, white transporter and a professional presentation. This was a year before Gold Leaf and Lotus. And Crio was not a cigarette company!

At the end of the year I left to work for Roy Pike with the F3 Titan. Jean Pierre bought his car from Crio and wrote to me to ask if I wanted to work for him in 1968 as a private entrant. I declined as I had a job with Titan. It would have been more fun if I had gone with Jean Pierre!

As regards pictures, I was 20 years old! Why would I have needed pictures? I do have one somewhere, and I will see if i can find it. Now I wish I had some, and is why I am on this blog, because I saw your picture!

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#60 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:28

Wonderful story !

#61 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 08:44

Here's Pedro in a MS7 leading the pack (Courage - Widdows - Cevert - Galli and Stewart, also in a MS7) during the 1969 Trophées de France race at Reims.

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#62 Julian Pratt

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:14

I think they got Pedro because he had done so well in the Protos (?) the wooden car, in 1967. Stewart is in the Coombs Brabham BT30. 1969 was the year that Stewart ran the Matra F1, and Tyrell stopped F2. Stewart wanted to continue with F2 so they came to an agreement. Those were the days when F1 drivers were happy to run with private entrants and compete against rising stars. It was a great way of grading how good the rising stars actually were! I seem to recall that the super stars had actual stars on their cars and this meant that they were not eligible for championship points.

A pity that this does not happen today!

#63 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:34

Hi Julian,

Pedro ran in MS7/06 and Stewart in MS7/01
Pescarolo suffered burns from his Le Mans practice crash and wasn't enough recovered so they offered his car to Pedro.

#64 Julian Pratt

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 14:10

Hi Pedro

Well you are right and I am wrong! I was mislead by the different roll over bars on the two Matra's! Pedro's is different because Pescorolo was much taller.

Everything I said about Stewart applies to 1970 NOT 1969!

So, I have learnt that you guys are really switched on about this stuff. I must be careful before I leap to print! We do say in England that as you get older, the memory is the second thing to go................

#65 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 19:00

Julian,

The green nose is always Pescarolo car...

#66 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 21:41

Here a funny pic of a very relaxed Jean-Pierre Jaussaud sleeping with his Matra MS2 at the Rouen F3 race in 1965.

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He finished at the 7th place of the race, win by Piers Courage.

#67 asag

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 13:08

Formule 2:

MS5 - 1966 - jezdil v anglickém týmu Johna Coombse.

MS5- 1966 - he drove in the English team of John Coomb

MS6 - na kterém dojel Jacky Ickx (pozdější miláček fanoušků F1) na 3. místě v Nurnburgringu 1967

MS6 - Jacky Ickx drove ith this car at 3nd place at Nurburgring 1967

MS7 - vítězství v GP na Hockenheimu s J-P Beltoise v roce 1969.

MS7 - the win at GP Hockenheim with J-P Beltoise 1969

Matra vyhrála Europe Trophy v roce 1967 (Jacky Ickx), 1968 (JP Beltoise), a v roce 1969 (Servoz-Gavin).

Matra won the Europe Trophy in 1967 /Jacky Ickx/, 1968 /JP Beltoise and 1969 /Servoz-Gavin/

from this site: http://images.google...mgu...l=nl&sa=N


may English is not good, byt may be is is is O.K. for you.

#68 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 13:44

Please,
Please !!

Asag,

Read the post 45 : The Matra of Jacky Ickx for the German GP 1967, was a MS5 formula 2, chassis number 11, not a MS6, who was the formula 3 chassis.

#69 barrykm

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 16:33

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Here's Pedro in a MS7 leading the pack (Courage - Widdows - Cevert - Galli and Stewart, also in a MS7) during the 1969 Trophées de France race at Reims.

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Thanks for the pic Pedro, real racing...!!!

#70 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 11:22

about this soon old threat does any one has a photo of the MATRA drove in ITALY in the 60 ths by GIACOMO

RUSSO as ''GEKI'' and the colour of the car ?

#71 M Needforspeed

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 01:01

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
about this soon old threat does any one has a photo of the MATRA drove in ITALY in the 60 ths by GIACOMO

RUSSO as ''GEKI'' and the colour of the car ?




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Voici Gerard ;Tiré de l ' hebdomadaire AUTO ITALIANA ...et de la course ou malheureusement il trouva la mort, Caserta 67 : ( Pour la couleur , je n ' ai aucune précision : j ai une autre photo noir et blanc, ou par comparaison des contrastes, je pencherais pour un bleu foncé, en tout cas pas le bleu de france des Matras de F3 67)

Here Gerard .;excerpt from Weekly AUTO ITALIANA .... and from the race of his fatal crash, Caserta 67 ( No infos about car color skin , rather a kind of dark blue .... )

the problem to find pics is because Geki disputed very few races with the Matra, as he started the season still in contract with the De Sanctis factory .

#72 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:14

:clap:

super needforspeed !!!

you don't think the car was red ?

#73 Stephen W

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 13:06

Two photos from 1968:

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Above: Adam Potocki - MS5

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Above: Jean-Pierre Jabouille - MS5

#74 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 14:00

very nice pics stephen,

which race isi it ?

#75 M Needforspeed

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 14:17

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
very nice pics stephen,

which race isi it ?


I think it is the F III Monaco race at the Casino roundabout , prelude to the F1 grand Prix


Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
:clap:


you don't think the car was red ?



For Geki Russo, here another pic where you can compare with the supposed colors of others cars ;First is Brambilla with a Birel , on the right Carlo Facetti Brabham , and behind Russo , Montagnani that wld won the 67
Italian championship .It is the Monza Junior short track Fina trofeo , 21 May .

an unusual feature on the Matra, is the very high Roll bar, look like nowadays single seaters entering historic races .

Michel


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#76 David M. Kane

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 15:26

Awesome photos!

#77 Stephen W

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 15:32

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
very nice pics stephen,

which race isi it ?


Sorry; it is the Monaco F3 Grand Prix - actually one of the practice sessions. On the Saturday when the heats & final were run I was at the Gasworks Hairpin, unfortunately the weather was awful with rain and heavy clouds.

:wave:

#78 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 05:01

Superb Stephen !

Good atmosphere of early morning light.

The yellow Brabham BT21B of Ian Walker, is Philippe Tose. He DNPQ :

Who know him ?? What was his career ??

#79 HOULMAN

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:22

gerard,tu connais mon Anglais,alors je réponds en francais au sujet de la matra de Geki.
d'apres un listing tres,tres sérieux que je possede il s'agirait de MS5-01 attribuée en 66 a STEWART (F2) puis tranformée en F3 pour Geki en 67.
toujours d'apres mes sources seul les chassis MS5-06 07 08 sont sortis en F3.tous les autres sont des F2 transformes plus tard en F3.
je n'en dirai pas plus meme sous la torture.......

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#80 Rob29

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:55

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
Superb Stephen !

Good atmosphere of early morning light.

The yellow Brabham BT21B of Ian Walker, is Philippe Tose. He DNPQ :

Who know him ?? What was his career ??

British clubmans driver,did one season I think,in F3 then dissapeared.

#81 macoran

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:02

Originally posted by HOULMAN

je n'en dirai pas plus meme sous la torture.......


:p

#82 fines

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:25

Originally posted by HOULMAN
gerard,tu connais mon Anglais,alors je réponds en francais au sujet de la matra de Geki.
d'apres un listing tres,tres sérieux que je possede il s'agirait de MS5-01 attribuée en 66 a STEWART (F2) puis tranformée en F3 pour Geki en 67.

If my French isn't too rusty, that would be a good explanation as to why the car was dark blue! :)

#83 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 15:57

Dark blue for Scotland...

Your french is not so bad !

#84 Julian Pratt

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 16:21

I was a mechanic for Jean Pierre Jabouille in 1967, and I am almost certain that Geki's car was red. I seem to remember seeing it in the Matra factory and thinking what a strange colour!

I all seem to recall that the accident Geki when he was killed was horrific. Other drivers were also killed and he was trapped in the car and burnt to death. There was a lot of talk about how dangerous the Matra was as the petrol was poured straight into the monocoque (no bag tanks) and the British manufacturers saw this as a chance to rubbish Matra.

Saying that Geki was a very wild driver indeed. Chris Craft told me a few years ago that Geki had pushed him into the wall at Monza in 1966 0r 67 and Chris still believes to this day that it was done with the intention of killing him!

Because of the fire I suspect that this chassis did not survive to today

#85 Cirrus

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 16:34

I started a thread on the race where "Geki", "Tiger" and Beat Fehr were killed a few years ago...

http://forums.autosp...ghlight=caserta

#86 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 21:26

Dear Gents,

I tried to find a photo of Geki's car and found the following on another forum: http://tbk.fameflame...pic.php?t=48596

Cheers,

JD

#87 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 21:37

I cannot have the pic. I don't know why ???

#88 macoran

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 21:40

Originally posted by Gokart Mozart
Dear Gents,

I tried to find a photo of Geki's car and found the following on another forum: http://tbk.fameflame...pic.php?t=48596

Cheers,

JD


Damn !!!

Edit: Sorry for that, just didn't have another word for what I saw

#89 M Needforspeed

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 23:38

Have 1967 Auto Italiana and Autosprint Weekly .. will read F3 reports again.. perhaps there is the color

#90 Rob29

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:56

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
I cannot have the pic. I don't know why ???

Before anyone else wastes their time;I tried too.You need user name & password to enter this site.Attempted to register only to be told my e-mail address is banned :eek: Sounds like I would rather not see what is offered anyway.

#91 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 07:38

nothing new needforspeed on your magazines ?

#92 M Needforspeed

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 20:58

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
nothing new needforspeed on your magazines ?



no answer at the moment concerning the color, but as soon as I found something of interest, I ll post

Michel

#93 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 13:28


Working on the Matra F3 and F2 chassis, I've found a stange entry !

Radio England enter a guy named Dereck Kavanagh in Lotteria Gran Premio at Monza 1966

I have chassis MS1#01

But :

Who can tell me more about this driver ???

Any relation with the australian motocyclist Ken Kavanagh ??

Thanks for your help



Gérard Gamand
www.autodiva.fr

#94 Rob29

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 16:34

Working on the Matra F3 and F2 chassis, I've found a stange entry !

Radio England enter a guy named Dereck Kavanagh in Lotteria Gran Premio at Monza 1966

I have chassis MS1#01

But :

Who can tell me more about this driver ???

Any relation with the australian motocyclist Ken Kavanagh ??

Thanks for your help



Gérard Gamand
www.autodiva.fr

Don't think so Gerard.Kavanagh is comon irish name.

F3 race record for Derek Kavanagh 1966;

XVIII Grand Premio di Roma-DNA
29.05-Brands Hatch-?
GP della Lotteria di Monza-DNA-engine stolen
03.07-Reims-DNA
10.07-Rouen-DNQ
17.07-Magny Cours-DNA
04.09-Trofeo AGIP-Monza-DNA
11.09-Zolder-DNA
25.09-Albi-DNA
?-Monthery-DNA

Quite why he kept entering races and not turning up-I have no idea-I guess entry fees were a lot less in those days.

#95 ndpndp

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 17:03

Working on the Matra F3 and F2 chassis, I've found a stange entry !

Radio England enter a guy named Dereck Kavanagh in Lotteria Gran Premio at Monza 1966

I have chassis MS1#01

But :

Who can tell me more about this driver ???

Derek Kavanagh was English (born in Teddington, Middlesex)
He raced under the entrant "Radio Caroline Racing" - Radio Caroline being the "other" pirate radio enterprise other than Radio London.
His full results during 1966 can be found in the F1 Register's relevant publication.
He was connected to the film industry in various capacities (see imdb for more details)
He has lived in California for many years.

Hope this helps.



#96 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 17:48

Thanks a lot

Any idea where he had bought this Matra ??

Do you know if this wonderful carer had stop after this F3 season...(champion of DNA I think)

#97 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 18:04


If you are interested...

Here the link with Matra F2 and F3 topic (in French)


http://www.autodiva....pic.php?f=2&t=6






#98 Rob29

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:26

Derek Kavanagh was English (born in Teddington, Middlesex)
He raced under the entrant "Radio Caroline Racing" - Radio Caroline being the "other" pirate radio enterprise other than Radio London.
His full results during 1966 can be found in the F1 Register's relevant publication.
He was connected to the film industry in various capacities (see imdb for more details)
He has lived in California for many years.

Hope this helps.

My results as above are from F1 register.He was also entered as 'Radio England' 'Matra Sports'and his own name :wave: Another thought just ocurred to me -as 1966 was the year the movie 'Grand Prix'was made-did he have something to do with that?

#99 Chris Townsend

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 16:59

Derek Kavanagh was English (born in Teddington, Middlesex)
He raced under the entrant "Radio Caroline Racing" - Radio Caroline being the "other" pirate radio enterprise other than Radio London.
His full results during 1966 can be found in the F1 Register's relevant publication.
He was connected to the film industry in various capacities (see imdb for more details)
He has lived in California for many years.

Hope this helps.


Kavanagh was still entering [and not appearing] in F3 as late as 1974, with a GRD run by Artina which was finally sold [or at least for sale] as late as Feb 1979

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#100 Stefan Schmidt

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 19:02

Here my MATRA Video

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be