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1961 2.5 Cooper Climax (Pencil Line)


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#1 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 02:38

May 1961, the running of the Indianapolis 500 was changed for ever when Brabham and John Cooper entered a 4 cylinder 2,700cc capacity. This plan looked eccentric to say the least, but the intention to contest the 50th. running was a deliberate attempt yo prove that the modern European lighter technoligy could match the stereotype machinery that had reflected the nature of American racing. After qualifying in 13th. and finished a credible 9th. from 33 starters, it was said that Jack Brabham and John Cooper had on that day made millions of dollars worth of American 4,200cc racing cars outdated overnight. Two cars were especially constructed for this foray, originally referred to as the type 54, pencil line Cooper.
1961 began as new era for the World Drivers Championship and would be decided exclusively on cars of the new F.1 (1500c.c. and 450kg ninimum weight) instead of the old 2500c.c. now to be known as Intercontinental Fornular still forming the backbone of Grand Prix Racing.
The second of these 2 cars was driven by Brabham during that 1962 European season winning the Aintree 500 at the end of that season the car was fitted with a 2,700 c.c. Coventry Climax engine to compete in New Zealand at the start of the 1963 Tasman Series of races beginning with four events in that country with another four in the eastern states of Australia, with the car winning at Levin in N.Z. and at Sandown in Aus.
The car was purchased by John Youl directly after this race and was supplied with the original 2.5 engine and a stepup from the 2.2 litre type 51 Cooper Youl had been campaigning for the the last couple of seasons and had been badly damaged after an altercation with John Surties at the Sandown meeting. This car was always listed as a Type 55 in Australia which seemed strange, having been built alongside the Indy car as a spare if you like and while that car was referred to as a T.54 the second became a T.55 eventhough there were obvious differences between the Pencil Line and common T.55 Low Line ..........Tenanabit.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 03:11

Surely, Geoff, this is the car with which you became most intimate in all your time spannering other people's cars?

But I think you have to revise the years a little...

1960 - Brabham's test at Indy... 1961 he raced there.

I reckon your car then went back to England in '61, out here in '62 and to John March 1962.

I don't think Jack drove a Cooper in any competition after that International series of '62... certainly he was in a Brabham for the '63 series. That's the car you sent me the photo of him sitting in with no bodywork.

#3 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 04:45

You are bound to be right Ray, my old computer doesn't run as well as it once did.
My understanding was that the spare car was not taken to the U.S. and Jack ran it as Intercontinental class for the remainder of that season. I know it was in the November 1960 on his way to compete at Riverside that he slipped into Indy and did a couple of hundred miles in his then race car just to sort out what might be required for a shot at the 50th. anniversary race the following May. I know we ran that car at the A.G.P in Caversham in 1962 held in conjunction with The Commonwealth Games, so yes you are correct. Sorry old boy!

Smed.

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 05:00

More interesting, Geoff, is the way you later modified it...

Undoubtedly it was the most 'modern' Cooper T54 or T55 to ever run.

#5 David McKinney

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 06:08

Good morning Australia!
My understanding is there were two T54 Indy models, the 1961 race car and the spare, both of which stayed in the US.
There were also two T55s, the 1961 works four-cylinder 1500 cars, of which F1-11-61 went to John Love in South Africa. The other car, F1-10-61, was used (with 2.7 engine) by JB in the 1962 Australian internationals and later by Youl. I suspect JB may have used a T53 in the preceding NZ internationals but I wouldn't swear to it. And there was of course no Tasman series in 1962 or 1963 ;)

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 07:34

Thank you, David, and here is one of Geoff's photos of the car...

Victory lap after winning the Mallala Gold Star race in 1963:

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#7 RA Historian

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 14:33

I think that T-54 might be able to sort all this out for us...................

#8 David McKinney

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 15:27

Sorry, sort what out?

#9 T54

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 17:05

Sorry, sort what out?


David,
sort out that I believe that you have your facts a bit mixed up. :)

There was only one type 54 chassis ever built, and this was completed by May 4, 1961 and promptly sent to Indianapolis without turning a wheel in testing. That chassis was quite different from the Low-Line T53 (1960 or T53P production 1961 forms) or the subsequent T55 works cars. It was longer, wider and offset to the right, with different suspension components (longer wishbones, larger rear uprights sporting much larger bearings) while the engine was inclined to the left instead of to the right as in the Low-Line T53 or T55's. . No other period open-wheel Cooper chassis has any of these unique features designed solely for left-turn only circuits.

The "spare" car at Indy is believed to be chassis F1/12/61, a standard T53 works car later fitted (during the month of May) with the spare experimental 2775cc Climax engine, ET-892-1205 (the other engine, ET-892-1204, was to the T54 chassis). The "1205" engine arrived after qualifications and was fitted to the T54 for the race. The "spare" car was also fitted with 15" (and not 16" as reported in Doug Nye's great Cooper book) centerlock Dunlop wheels. I can correct this very small mistake in the book because I have a picture of the car in the Indy garage where one can clearly read the tire markings. Unlike the T54, the Dunlop tires werre the standard F1 design, not the special 1/2 slicks produced in 16" by Dunlop for the T54.
The "spare" never turned a wheel there and was sold to Hap Sharp and after a demonstration in which Sharp broke the lap record at Elkhart lake, re-converted to standard bolted Cooper magnesium wheels as the special parts were obtained from Sharp by Joe Huffaker and used on the Aston-Martin converted T54 at the 1963 Indy 500. As a "Formula Libre" and re-fitted with a 2.5-liter FPF (the experimental engine was fitted to Sharp's Cooper-Monaco and later sold to Roger Penske) it remained in his possession and that of Jim Hall until donated to the IMS in 1969. This experimental engine is now back in the... T54.

I think that the car you are showing is either a T55 or the upgraded to T55 specs T53 "Formula II Racing Car Mark IV" sold to John Youl by the works, chassis FII/9/60, with a Climax FPF engine # FPF/430/1063, that could be a 2.5-liter and later possibly converted to 2.7 by the addition of a 1/4" spacer on top of the block and larger liners as it was often done from 1962 on.

Regards,

T54

#10 David McKinney

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 18:31

OK. One T54 only, the backup car being a T53. I didn't bother with too much detailed checking as the thread is about a T55 - I was simply trying to clear the T54 theory out of the way.
But while we're on the subject, the Indy spare T53 was, I believe, F2-12-60. C/no F1-1-61 was the T58 which would not appear until August (1961).
I am in no doubt that the Youl car we are talking about is one of the two T55 , and shouldn't be confused with his earlier T51 which, as you say, was a T51

#11 T54

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 19:30

But while we're on the subject, the Indy spare T53 was, I believe, F2-12-60.


Actually this has also puzzled me for a while. Doug Nye on his book indeed presents the generally accepted belief that the back up car was F2-12-60. I m confident that Doug is correct, but I would like to figure a reasonable explanation of why the experimental Indy engine, one of two, is listed to that other car. I am told that Bruce McLaren ended with that engine and later fitted it to the Zerex Cooper that was sold to him without an engine installed, but with a small Olds on a pallet.

Anyway, the picture shown looks like a T55, this being the second Cooper model to feature a double-curve windshield. The T55 denomination is supposed to be that of the three 1961 slimline works cars, F1/10, 11 and 12, so I am not sure of why this engine would be in "12" in that listing except if this was the car in which the ex-Indy, ex-Riverside/Laguna-Seca engine was fitted for Tasman/Formula Libre. I hope that this makes sense. :

#12 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 19:57

The first I can recall ever hearing of 'two' T54s having been produced by the Cooper Car Co is in the opening entry of this thread. I believe that to be incorrect. See 'T54's offerings above - he's forgotten more about the car than most of us will ever know...

DCN

#13 David McKinney

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 20:37

The early history of the two 1961 Indy 2.7 FPFs seems to be:-
1) to McLaren for the October 1961 Riverside and Laguna Seca races, then to the Atkins T53 for the 1962 libre New Zealand and Australian internationals, retained by McLaren for later use. I'm happy to believe it went into the ex-Zerex
2) Brabham for Riverside and Laguna Seca, then into the T55 F1-10-61 for NZ and Australian races. Subsequent fate not known (to me :) )
What I'm not clear about is which engine went to McLaren and which to Brabham. It certainly seemed at the time that McLaren had stolen a march on his team-mate and got the better engine.
Can you spell that out for me again?

The three 'slimline' 1961 works cars were indeed F1-10, 11 and 12-61, but 12-61 was the T58 (with slight differences to take the V8 Climax) and the other two the only T55s. The "12" which you say later got the 1961 2.7 engine is surely F2-12-60 (T53), not F1-12-61 (T58)

#14 T54

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 21:45

Hi David,
I do not know if your information is correct about the engine used by Tommy Atkins, but this is the sequence of events as I gathered during my research.
Coventry-Climax was pressured in producing a suitable enlarged FPF for the 1961 Indy 500. Reluctantly they built two engines with larger bores and a longer crankshaft throw, that were given some experimental "ET" numbers rather than the usual "FPF" numbers. Subsequent 2.7-liter FPF's had only a different bore but the same crankshaft as on the 2.5-liter engines, losing a few cc's in the process.
The T54 was originally fitted with ET-892-1204. After the Indy qualifying, another engine shipped from Coventry-Climax arrived in a wooden box, with a card signed by all the guys at the C-C racing shop spelling "best of Luck, Jack!". This engine had 5 more HP and they put it in the car for the race. Meanwhile, the practice/qualifying engine (1204) was fitted in the "spare" car, of which the identity appears to be FII-12-60, a T53 modified with Dunlop 15" centerlock wheels.

After the Indy 500, the T54 returned to the UK to satisfy the US Customs temporary entry carnet, was demonstrated at Silverstone by Jack (something I did not know until last year...) and returned to the USA sans engine and gearbox, left I am told at the old IMS museum on display for the whole of 1962. The chassis was later purchased from Jim Kimberly (after all it was HIS car...) by Kjell Kvale and modified for an Offy, but then fitted against Huffaker's advice with an Aston-Martin DB4GT engine that later found its way in one of the Project 214 cars. The Offy would have been a better choice since the Aston-Martin engine's claim of 350HP was wildly exagerated, as the car, driven by Pedro Rodriguez, was crawling through the straights but was with the new Lotuses, still the fastest cornering car there. It qualified but was bumped and missed the show.

Meanwhile, FII-12-60 had been sold to Hap Sharp who demonstrated the car at Elkhart Lake in June still with "1204" in its engine bay and the 15" centerlock wheels. After Elkhart, the engine was taken out of it, replaced by the engine that it had been sold with in the first place, a regular FPF 2.5-liter, # 430/17/1184, which I believe it still retains to this day. Later, the centerlock 15" wheels were also removed from the car and found their way to Kjell Kvale's "shop" run by Joe Huffaker, who fitted them on the T54 for the 1963 Indy 500 attempt. These wheels still exist as well as the 2-speed Halibrand fitted to the car. The T53 was re-fitted with its original hubs, rear uprights and bolt-on Cooper magnesium wheels.

Meanwhile "1204" was installed in Hap Sharp's Monaco and raced at Riverside by Jack Brabham, who barely edged Bruce McLaren in the works Monaco that had been fitted with... "1205", so,

It certainly seemed at the time that McLaren had stolen a march on his team-mate and got the better engine.

I am not so sure that this is the case... :)

A week later, the two Monacos raced at Laguna Seca and after that race, "1204" was sold to Roger Penske who used it in the ex-Cunningham T53 now rebuilt as the widened, center-seat "sports" car known as the "Cooper Zerex Duralite Spl. " or more commonly, the "Zerex-Cooper".

"1205" returned to the UK with John Cooper and Bruce McLaren and was apparently fitted, according to the factory's own records, to a 1961 works car, F1-12-61 (T55 model or whatever, listed as a "Formula 1 MK1 w/ 5-speed" by the works) and more than likely used by Bruce in Tasman races? Problem with this is that the factory records show this car produced in April, at a time when this engine did not even exist... hence my problem with this detail.

Either way and by the end of 1963, Bruce purchased the Zerex-Cooper from John Mecom to whom Roger Penske had sold it, this after "1204" had had a mechanical failure at Pensacola where Hap Sharp, driving the car, missed a shift and dropped a rod through the side of the block. Now I got this directly from Hap Sharp during a lunch with him, Jim Hall and Phil Hill in 1986 because there are conflicting stories about this.
Then I was told in 1990, by Tony Mantle if I recall correctly, that Bruce had put the retained "1205" in the Zerex and ran it at least twice in the UK before blowing it up (the head is supposed to have survived), at which point he completely rebuilt the car and fitted the Traco-Olds purchased with the car from Mecom. The fate of the remains of "1205" if any is unknown to me but Tony Mantle may know better. This would mean that "1204" and "1205" had been fist in the T54 at Indy, then in two Cooper Monacos, then in the Zerex over a period of 3 years... and they say that FPF's are fragile? :eek:

In the meantime in the 1980's, the remains of "1204" still in Mecom's shops were sold in some kind of an auction as well as a collection of 427ci Ford side-oiler parts, purchased by a fellow Texan as well as the other bits. Sold by this man in 1990, the rebuilt engine, still bearing its 1961 USAC tech stamp with the car's number is now back in the T54 in good fettle, still using most of its original components, completing the full circle.
Regards,

T54 :)

#15 Allen Brown

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 18:52

A most interesting thread. No matter how many times we go over these cars, we always turn up something new.

T54 is quite right to say that the April 1961 date for F1-12-61 and its engine number of '1205 makes no sense as it was the Climax V8 car which wasn't even tested until 1 August.

It would help if we knew what became of 12-61. As far as I've been able to determine, it was sold to Bowmaker but I then lose track of it.

My slightly neglected webpage on the Cooper T53s is here.

Allen

#16 David McKinney

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 19:57

Originally posted by Allen Brown
T54 is quite right to say that the April 1961 date for F1-12-61 and its engine number of '1205 makes no sense as it was the Climax V8 car which wasn't even tested until 1 August

See also the earlier Post 10 ;)

It would help if we knew what became of 12-61. As far as I've been able to determine, it was sold to Bowmaker but I then lose track of it.
Allen


Surely to Ecurie Australie? Then basis for the Argo sportscar?

#17 T54

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 20:42

Cooper T53 F1-19-61 Built December 1961. Okura Trading Co - i.e. Honda. Retained. At Goodwood Festival of Speed 2000.


This is the one I drove at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, loaned to me by Honda after I showed them... how to get it started! :lol:

T54

#18 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:19

Originally posted by Allen Brown
It would help if we knew what became of 12-61. As far as I've been able to determine, it was sold to Bowmaker but I then lose track of it.

Originally posted by David McKinney
Surely to Ecurie Australie? Then basis for the Argo sportscar?

Really? I thought we'd established in our previous conversations that the car Lex Davison's Ecurie Australie bought in 1962 to replace his wrecked ex-Yeoman-Credit/Salvadori car was the car Brabham had driven in the 1962 New Zealand races. Working backwards, this car was previously the one Brabham had driven in 1961 Intercontinental races and prior to that the car he'd driven in Australia 1961 and prior to that the car he'd driven in South Africa in December 1960. It wore the plate "F2-5-60" but I have come to believe that it was the car listed in Cooper records as F2-17-60.

After Davison it went to Tony Osbourne and later became the Argo-Corvette.

Allen

#19 David McKinney

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:49

You're probably right, Allen
But the fact that I didn't update my records suggests (but does not prove) that I wasn't happy with that scenario
One of the key questions is whether Brabham drove the same Cooper in NZ and Australia in 1961 (and, for that matter, in 1962)
Next time I have my Cooper hat on I'll try and check it out - I must have enough photos from both countries to spot any outward differences there might have been

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#20 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 12:26

I'm confident that he didn't drive the same car in New Zealand and Australia in 1961 as his Motor Racing column refers to the car from South Africa being shipped to Aus.

I completely agree with the need to have one's Cooper hat on. They are an intensely complex subject.

Allen

#21 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 12:42

...they most certainly are, and one made even more complex by Cooper's creative book-keeping, which might well account for another works car being entered in the chassis book for the month of 'April'.

This was quite possibly fictional, just to legitimise an additional costs claim falling within the previous financial year, ending April 5.

I am, however, presuming that the April 6-one-year-to-April 5-the-next UK tax year dating was indeed applicable in 1961?

Or is it April 5 to April 4???

I can't bear to even contemplate such things when we are all individually so much better equipped to waste our money ourselves, than to have the present discredited and discreditable Government waste it for us. :mad:

DCN

#22 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 14:02

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I am, however, presuming that the April 6-one-year-to-April 5-the-next UK tax year dating was indeed applicable in 1961?

Oh yes, since 1752 in fact.

One of the many bizarrely useless things I happen to know is that the 6 April tax year stems from the change to the calendar in England in Sep 1752 when we moved from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar. It was also decided at the same time to move the start of the year from 25 March to 1 January and also to lop off 11 days as we'd drifted badly behind the Gregorian date. The tax authorities were completely unable to deal with this change and just added the 11 days back on again so their start of year now became 6 April. And so it has stayed ever since.

The Americans think we're nuts. But we think they're nuts so that's ok.

Allen

#23 T54

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 14:29

I can't bear to even contemplate such things when we are all individually so much better equipped to waste our money ourselves, than to have the present discredited and discreditable Government waste it for us.


Doug, don't feel too lonely on this subject! :lol:
I am still puzzled by the registration of THAT engine in what amounts to be the wrong chassis, unless as pointed out, it is a matter of shuffling things for the tax man. :

#24 RA Historian

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 00:19

Originally posted by Allen Brown
The Americans think we're nuts. But we think they're nuts so that's ok. Allen

Fair enough, Allen! :lol:
Tom

#25 T54

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 03:15

F1-19-61 at Goodwood in 2000:

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The prototype of the Honda F1, 1962. looks strangely similar to the Cooper Indy car, down to the Dunlop wheels...

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Picture courtesy Honda Motor Co Japan

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 21:05

While I appreciate the need to sort out the mess, I do wish this thread would revert to Geoff's charge, the car after it became John Youl's...

Whichever car it was. The most 'Brabham' Cooper of all time.

#27 T54

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 21:17

Ray,
That would be good except that the thread began on very wrong premises... :)
The question is, which car did John Youl purchased in 1963, surely nothing that Brabham drove since he was long gone... Geoff is talking about a T53 that never left the USA since October 1961 to this day, the picture shows a slimline, possibly ex-works, T55 in which a larger FPF (now a bored production 2.725cc engine) was fitted as well as a C5S.
Hence??? :)

#28 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 22:10

Originally posted by T54
.....The question is, which car did John Youl purchased in 1963, surely nothing that Brabham drove since he was long gone.....


As Geoff explained, the car was taken over from Brabham after he'd finished with it in the International races of 1963... it was undoubtedly a car raced by Brabham.

.....Geoff is talking about a T53 that never left the USA since October 1961 to this day, the picture shows a slimline, possibly ex-works, T55 in which a larger FPF (now a bored production 2.725cc engine) was fitted as well as a C5S.
Hence???


So is Geoff's premise that the car was the spare at Indy wrong? That being the case, the discussion on the Indy side of things is over and we should discuss what car John Youl did purchase.

Though, to me, the more interesting stuff is in what Geoff did to the car for John, remembering that it was the last Cooper to win an Australian title race and that it did so a couple of years after any other Cooper had a major win here. With the exception of Bruce's '63 and later cars, of course, which were a more modern genre of car.

#29 David McKinney

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 22:11

The car purchased by John Youl in 1962 (not 1963) was the ex-works T55 c/no F1-10-61, which Jack Brabham had used for the Australian internationals at the beginning of the same year

#30 T54

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 23:04

Now that makes sense. :)

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 23:14

What, then, was its previous history, David?

#32 David Shaw

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 03:56

This is what I have on it Ray from its initial racing history (pre historics), mainly gleaned from Blanden's book Vol II:

Blanden's Vol II has the history of F1/10/61 as follows:

With 1500cc 4 cylinder Coventry Climax
22/4/61 Aintree 200 - Jack Brabham (Winner)
14/5/61 Monaco GP - Jack Brabham (Retired - ignition)
22/5/61 Dutch GP - Jack Brabham (Sixth)
3/6/61 Silver City Trophy, Brands Hatch - Jack Brabham (Retired - cam follower)
18/6/61 Belgian GP - Jack Brabham (Retired - engine)
2/7/61 French GP - Jack Brabham (Retired - oil pressure)
15/7/61 British GP - Jack Brabham (Fourth)
6/8/61 German GP - Jack Brabham (Retired - accident lap 1)
10/9/61 Italian GP - Jack Brabham (Spare car - Practice)
8/10/61 USA GP - Jack Brabham (Spare car - Practice)

Ownership then transferred from the works to Jack Brabham as per his contract. Fitted with 2.7 and 2.5 litre engines for Tasman races.

6/1/62 New Zealand GP - Jack Brabham (Retired - gears)
13/1/62 Levin - Jack Brabham (Winner)
20/1/62 Lady Wigram Trophy - Jack Brabham (Second)
27/1/62 Teretonga - Jack Brabham (Thirdl)
4/2/62 Warwick Farm 100- Jack Brabham (Retired - gears)
11/2/62 Lakeside - Jack Brabham (Winner)
12/3/62 Sandown Cup - Jack Brabham (Winner)

Car then purchased by John Youl with 2.5 litre FPF.

15/4/62 Symmons Plains - John Youl (Unknown result)
?? Examiner Trophy - John Youl (Winner)
14/10/62 Hordern Trophy, Warwick Farm - John Youl (Second)
18/10/62 Gold Star, Mallala - John Youl (Second)
18/11/62 Australian Grand Prix, Caversham - John Youl (Second)

1963
10/2/62 Australian Grand Prix, Warwick Farm – John Youl (Blackflagged)
5/3/63 South Pacific Championship, Longford - John Youl (Third)
15/9/63 Victorian Road Race Championship, Sandown - John Youl (Second)
14/10/63 Gold Star, Mallala - John Youl (Winner)
1/12/63 Hordern Trophy, Warwick Farm - John Youl (Winner)

During 1963 it was uprated with FJ wishbones to widen the track, twin plug head, dual magnetos, larger rear brakes and a mechanical fuel pump.

1964
9/2/64 Australian Grand Prix, Sandown - John Youl (Third)
16/2/64 International 100, Warwick Farm – John Youl (Retired – crown wheel)
23/2/64 Lakeside International - John Youl (Second)
2/3/64 South Pacific Trophy, Longford – John Youl (Fifth)
13/9/64 Governor’s Trophy, Lakeside – John Youl (Retired – bearing)

Car then sold to Arnold Glass and entered under Capitol Motors.
6/12/64 Warwick Farm - Arnold Glass (Fifth)

Car sold to Joe Hills minus FPF and fitted with a 1.5litre Climax twin cam.

Car sold to Clive Osborne

1969
Bathurst Easter - Graham Wood (Unknown result)

#33 David McKinney

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 05:47

That looks pretty good, David
Couple of provisos, though -
•My notes say both Brabham and McLaren raced it in 1961 F1 (but don't mention specific races)
•I'm still not sure that Brabham had just one car for the 1962 NZ and Australian internationals - Allen?
•Isn't April 1962 a bit early for Youl to be racing it? Wouldn't he still have been in his T51 then?
•Your list omits NZ race results for Youl (1964) and Glass (1965)

#34 David Shaw

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 06:23

Sergent's site has Brabham in the T55 for all 4 NZ races in 1962, with McLaren in T53 F2-8-60.
AFAIK Brabham used only the one chassis in those 1962 races.
Youl's T51 F2-9-60 had a nasty accident under Dunlop bridge during the Sandown Cup on March 12 1962, injuring a number of spectators and badly damaging the chassis, hence purchasing the Brabham car that was for sale at the end of the series.

Yes, I hadn't realised that this car went back over to NZ later on. Here are the additions:

4/1/64 5th Levin International - John Youl (Fourth)
11/1/64 11th New Zealand Grand Prix, Pukekohe - John Youl (Fourth)
18/1/64 13th Lady Wigram Trophy - John Youl (Fourth)
25/1/64 7th Teretonga International - John Youl (DNS)

The only listing that Sergent has for Glass in 1965 is at the Grand Prix, where apparently he drove T51 F2-18-59. This doesn't appear to be correct though, as that chassis was owned by Frank Coad at the time. The timing fits for it to be this T55, so:

9/1/65 12th New Zealand Grand Prix, Pukekohe - Arnold Glass (Retired - suspension)


EDIT: Brainfade

#35 mctshirt

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 07:21

Originally posted by David Shaw
11/1/64 11th New Zealand Grand Prix, Pukekohe - John Youl (Fourth)


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According to my notes (which is tempered by the fact I own the Graham Vercoe book and was given the photo by someone else who was there) this is Youl in 1964 at Pukekohe in a T55 - if it's not Pukekohe I would appreciate correction.

#36 Allen Brown

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:07

Originally posted by David McKinney
•I'm still not sure that Brabham had just one car for the 1962 NZ and Australian internationals - Allen?

My notes say that he drove the T55 in NZ and Aus.

Allen

#37 John Ellacott

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 11:19

John Youl at Warwick Farm in this car:

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#38 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 13:18

More from Geoff Smedley... and finally some detail around the rear of the chassis...

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#39 David McKinney

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 13:37

Originally posted by Ray Bell
More from Geoff Smedley... and finally some detail around the rear of the chassis...

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It take it the top pic is of Matich's Brabham?

The bottom one's 1964
The grid order is right for the Levin race, but that's not the start-line. More like the 'dummy grid', though I don't remember that being painted

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 20:22

No, David, that's the last manifestation of the Cooper...

This is the point I've been making throughout this thread, that the chassis was subjected to massive updates at Geoff Smedley's hand during the John Youl ownership.

I've actually cropped Geoff's note from this pic... it read 'Major chassis update 1964'.

#41 David McKinney

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 20:30

'major' indeed ;)

#42 John Ellacott

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 20:40

Not much visible in this shot, but this is at Warwick Farm in February 1964:

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#43 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:31

It's an interesting side to Motor Racing, I never realised that vast amount of knowledge that has been posted since I asked that silly question at the start of the thread, thank you all :clap:

What changes have happened in Motor Racing over the past 40 -50 years, it has gone from a sport to a muti- million dollar business using huge casts and crew in the production of simply television entertainment that has somewhat lost its way. Brace yourselves, for here it comes......BACK IN MY DAY!! the team consisted of One Car, + One Driver + a Spanner Monkey, and in most cases while these parameters were kept the setup usually bore results. The machinery was the heart of the team and a steerer that could match the abilities of his car without abuse was a bit of a rarity, but happily my time with John Youl allowed us to develope a car that was a real force to be reckoned with matching it with most other local local and Internationals alike while extracting extra power from the 2.5 FPF and in many cases ,able to outrun the ones with "bigger holes" the 2.7 litre version which was in vogue in 1964.

All the development work we did was carried out in house, Having been trained as a toolmaker in my family business, it gave me access to all the machinery and equipment to make most components that we needed, all items such as half shafts down to crown wheel and pinion sets,engine components and modifications such as the twin plug head for the duel ignition setup. these were all one off go fast bits, including all chassis and suspension mods., work that in return produced a lot of satisfaction all round.

All the models and numbers that have appeared on my screen in the last week or two had no bearing on the car winning races back then, it wasn't necessary for a mechanic to know what model or number of the equipment in his charge but to make it perform to its best ability. Thanks to all concerned for the info given and from now on I have somewhere to watch to be further enlightened, keep the interest going..........Geoff Smedley. :up: :up:

#44 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:48

Originally posted by Geoff Smedley
All the models and numbers that have appeared on my screen in the last week or two had no bearing on the car winning races back then, it wasn't necessary for a mechanic to know what model or number of the equipment in his charge but to make it perform to its best ability.


How true your words are and easily we overlook that exact point. I have been rather fascinated by this history lesson, to say the least.

#45 T54

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 03:08

Major is an understatement! But the C5S survived the surgery... :)

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 09:11

Geoff's sent me another picture... this time the twin-plug engine on Repco's dyno...

He says it gave more than any other 2.5 Climax engine tried to that time.

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There aren't many other pics on this forum of engines on dynos 'back in the day', are there? This is Repco Research's dyno, which presumably later spent a lot of time copping the power of F1 engines that did a better job than people expected.

John has yet another pic of John Youl in this car, I hope he gets to post it some time.

#47 AAA-Eagle

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 21:02

Several hundred high-resolution pictures of Jack Brabham at 1961 Indy 500 taken by Robert W Kelley are available HERE as a result of a newly discovered LIFE photo archive & Google cooperation. Incredible! :D :eek: :smoking:

#48 T54

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 20:21

Wow, thanks! Great pics! :)

#49 cooper997

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 06:28

It's been a while since this thread had a run. The subject matter up for auction next weekend at Goodwood

 

Curious comment in the spiel about roll bar heights or am I reading it wrong. In period this was a high roll bar car, comparative to the 1960 Coopers at least - 28/4/61 Autosport cover helps show how it started at Aintree. David McKinney would get high blood pressure with the continued reference to 'Tasman Series' during Jack's time with the car down under in the NZ/Aust Internationals.

https://www.bonhams....5454/lot/200/#/!

 

Stephen



#50 malomay

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 23:54

Quote from the Bonhams link...."the car has not been started or driven since acquisition."

 

:cry: