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1961 2.5 Cooper Climax (Pencil Line)


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#51 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 08:01

Lots of secrecy around the ownership of this car since the early 1990s.  It was acquired from a well-known English racer/restorer by Cronenberg in 1992, and I think it remained with him until 2002, when it was sold to an American.  It was then sold by Bonhams to a Swiss owner in 2009.  I understand that people have reasons for keeping these things quiet, but it really does make it hard to establish provenance.  



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#52 cooper997

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 07:05

For the sake of a little more reference to this Cooper - August 2009 Bonhams Quail Lodge offering..

https://www.bonhams..../17327/lot/239/

 

Stephen



#53 cooper997

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:43

There was obviously some interest in the Cooper. From the Bonhams website... Sold for £ 244,375 (AU$ 442,323) inc. premium

 

Where will it turn up next.

 

Stephen



#54 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 22:32

The car was owned by an enthusiast who simply preferred to remain anonymous. Its auction entry in support of Jackie Stewart's highly relevant and admirable charity - Race Against Dementia - generated that £244,375 of funding.  JYS was surprised, and thrilled to bits...  The donor still prefers to remain anonymous.  I think his generosity deserves acknowledgment rather than inquiry...

 

DCN



#55 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:12

I can acknowledge his tremendous generosity and still strive to find out his identity.  They are not mutually exclusive.  I will not disclose his identity publicly if he doesn't wish me to, but a complete provenance is important to a car.



#56 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 13:18

I am confident that in the fullness of time we can complete that provenance for you...  

 

DCN



#57 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 13:48

I am confident that in the fullness of time we can complete that provenance for you...  

 

DCN

 

Excellent.  "In the fullness of time" happens to be exactly my target date for this.



#58 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 18:28

:stoned:



#59 Rob Miller

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 07:44

I wonder where F1/11/61, the Bruce McLaren/John Love car, is these days?



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#60 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 06:00

I wonder where F1/11/61, the Bruce McLaren/John Love car, is these days?

 

The latest I can find is that it is now owned and raced by Denis Bigioni of Pickering, Ontario.  Here is a link:

 

https://varac.ca/doc...nals-201610.pdf

 

Vince H.



#61 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 20:48

Just as a matter of minor interest - when and where did the alleged nickname 'Pencil Line' Cooper originate...?

 

DCN



#62 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 21:26

Was that name used in Europe, Doug?

Or is it purely an Australian expression?

#63 cooper997

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 23:40

I'm reasonably confident this is a Smed title, applied to this chassis to reference from the highline car J C Youl still had and Geoff would have to rebuild when the Brabham 1962 NZ/Australian Internationals chassis was acquired. Remembering also that we are talking of an era before the Cooper T numbers were in official use, or indeed retrospectively applied.

 

Pencil line was still attached to this chassis when advertised in 1969.

 

Ray, could possibly contact Geoff for his take?

 

Stephen



#64 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 11:04

Sure thing, Stephen...

But I'm pretty sure David McKay used the expression too.

#65 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 12:36

While we're awaiting that information...

As this car is one of just two cars built by Cooper for the 1961 F1 season using the FPF 1.5-litre engine, I'm sure it had a smaller body than the previous year's cars, and certainly smaller than the Indianapolis car, as it would carry a smaller fuel load.

This, no doubt contributes to the 'Pencil Line' nomenclature (or nickname) and may well have been applied in England. This why I asked Doug that question.

#66 bradbury west

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 17:29

I put a call into Smed after Doug's query, and Geoff said that when John Youl got the car from Jack Brabham he, presumably JB, always talked about it as the pencil line car, and so John and Geoff carried on calling it that. He points out that Bib Stillwell's car was a lowline.
Perhaps pencil line referred to Brabham-directed or suggested drawing board mods or amendments prior to the car being built.
Ray may come up with more info.
Roger Lund

#67 Doug Nye

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 20:15

Never heard mention of it in period, or since except in recent years.  Sounds to me as if it originated in Oz - nothing to do with us 'up here'...   :confused:

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 29 September 2019 - 20:16.


#68 broadarrow

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 20:27

Hi All,

 

I am pleased to see this topic as this little car brings back some memories of my time on the "spanners" for the late Clive Osborne.

 

The previously mentioned description of the chain of ownership seems to fit what Clive once told me when I asked, however he told me when he purchased this car he picked it up from Wentworthville a western suburb of Sydney.

 

Now not being familiar with the name Joe Hill does anyone know if this is indeed where he was located ? 

 

I also have some pictures somewhere from when the English Cooper expert came out to purchase this car in the mid-eighties and we rounded up the parts that were scattered between premises on the north shore and inner western suburbs of Sydney that showed various colour schemes of this car over the years on battered body work.

 

Regards, Peter B.


Edited by broadarrow, 29 September 2019 - 20:28.


#69 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 21:31

Originally posted by bradbury west
.....Perhaps pencil line referred to Brabham-directed or suggested drawing board mods or amendments prior to the car being built.
Ray may come up with more info.....


If you've spoken to Geoff, that's pretty much all I would have done...

But I'd be sure that it relates to the size of the car. It was a pretty small thing alongside earlier Coopers.

Peter, I'll try to remember to ask Britto about Joe Hills, he had something to do with John Harvey and Ron Phillips.

#70 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 00:43

Britto remembers that the Joe Hills Lotus was in a garage at Belmore...

He was the one who put a Climax into a speedway midget.

Looking at photos of the 'Pencil Line' Cooper you can readily see how the name came:

http://autopics.com....scarob/#gallery

Here you see how the carby bulge comes out so much more than it does on the T53s alongside of it, indicating how much smaller the bodywork is.

http://autopics.com....tanley/#gallery

Note how the clearance for front wheel turning is so much less than the 1960 cars in this one, also the overall compactness.

There's a really great shot of Youl leading other cars up the straight at Lakeside somewhere which really shows it off but I can't find it.

#71 cooper997

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 01:26

Hi All,

 

I am pleased to see this topic as this little car brings back some memories of my time on the "spanners" for the late Clive Osborne.

 

The previously mentioned description of the chain of ownership seems to fit what Clive once told me when I asked, however he told me when he purchased this car he picked it up from Wentworthville a western suburb of Sydney.

 

Now not being familiar with the name Joe Hill does anyone know if this is indeed where he was located ? 

 

I also have some pictures somewhere from when the English Cooper expert came out to purchase this car in the mid-eighties and we rounded up the parts that were scattered between premises on the north shore and inner western suburbs of Sydney that showed various colour schemes of this car over the years on battered body work.

 

Regards, Peter B.

 

Interesting post Peter.

 

I only have brief reference to Joe Hills in relation to Cooper. During 1965 he was running the ex Miller special (aka Cooper) after Doug Kelley if my chain of ownership for that car is near accurate. So interesting to read his potential involvement with this T55.

 

Was that English Cooper expert from the 80s, a Mr Harper? I'm assuming the scattered bones of the car was still with Clive Osborne up until that point?

 

More tales from your involvement are welcome and if the photos from the 80s can be found, I'm happy to post them to TNF on your behalf.

 

Stephen