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#1 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 19:46

After having built some specials and juniors cars, Henri Julien make a come back with this AGS JH5 for the Formule France in 1970.
Gerard Cerruti was on the drive and this pic (not very good) was take at Nogaro in the spring of 1970. It was the begining of a new story who take AGS up to the Formula one !

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#2 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 19:53

For the 1971 season of Formule France, Henri Julien produced a new AGS JH7. I think François Guere-Berthelot was behind the wheel.

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#3 MattFoster

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 08:59

Cool pics guys!

#4 Hieronymus

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:20

For me the greatest memory of AGS was when Richard Dallest was driving them.

#5 macoran

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:19

Threads like this one and the Pygmeé one are better than history classes at school ever were !!
:up:

#6 Bonde

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 12:42

I agree with Marc :up: Many thanks to Gerard!

Lots of new and interesting information and pictures about the more or less obscure [French] marques - excellent TNF stuff!

AGS warrants a book - I suppose GRAC does as well. There's already a Pygmée book. Is there one about the Martini marque?


Gerard:

Do you have anything about Hampe and BBM?

#7 Hieronymus

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 13:05

Originally posted by Bonde
Is there one about the Martini marque?




Patrick Camus wrote a book on Tico Martini circa 1980. Check at Editions Palmier, they'll probably have one.

#8 HEROS

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 14:19

Here is a photo of the AGS BMW JH 17 chassis 023 of Richard Dallest taken at a show in Marseilles in 1998.

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#9 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 16:45

Bonde,

Yes I'have good things about the Hampe brothers and the BBM team. But a little later : I've not enough time at the moment.

#10 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 16:54

For Henri Julien, the next step after 70-71 was a brand new monocoque F3. So he built the AGS JH9 in 1972 and François Guerre-Berthelot drive it for just one race at the end of the season.

The car was not realy a "beauty" !!!

[img]http://img253.images...31972560jd6.jpg[img]

#11 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 16:55

For Henri Julien, the next step after 70-71 was a brand new monocoque F3. So he built the AGS JH9 in 1972 and François Guerre-Berthelot drive it for just one race at the end of the season.

The car was not realy a "beauty" !!!

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#12 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 17:00

And here the beautiful chassis on display at the "Salon de la Voiture de Course" in Paris (Spring 1972).

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#13 Allen Brown

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 17:23

Another great thread, Gerard!

#14 philippe charuest

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 17:56

a good "Martini" thread would be welcome too :) . its not so easy to find info and good pics of the martini (formule france/renault/3) especially the early years (± 1965 to 74) and even for the later years , base on the plain cold result (the amount of victory and titles ).martini was the best french constructors of the period

#15 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 18:25

Wait some time and I would start a Thread on Martini adventure that I know very well....

Step by step !

#16 Mallory Dan

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 13:34

The last years of F2, 1983-84 were surely the best of the AGS era. Streiff and the JH19 were the only combo that could get even close to the Ralt Hondas from mid-83 onwards as F2 died. They were certainly much quicker than the Marches after Gabbiani's early 83 run. Brilliant effirt I thought at the time, considering their budget, and the non-Ron T opposition they were up against in the 'BMW class'.

#17 Hieronymus

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 19:24

I see that Hodges's "A-Z of Formula Racing cars" had a brain block of models between JH5 and JH15, so this is some good stuff you've got here, Gerard. We keep on learning...

#18 275 GTB-4

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:13

OT: but is Henri related to Remy :confused:

#19 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:19

The stuntman's name is Julienne I believe :)

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#20 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:40

Il you speak of the patron : His surname is JULIEN and his christian name is Henri. A little man who always leave in Gonfaron is the south of France. (AGS is for Automobiles Gonfaronaises Sportives)

#21 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 04:08

Here an another pic of the first AGS Formula 3, the JH9 of 1972 with the first version of the body.

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#22 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 17:04

Before he created the AGS marque, Henri Julien built some 500 racers and Formula Junior, and drove it.

Here he drove himself the Julien-Panhard FJ, in the first GP de Monaco Formule Junior in 1959. He finished at a very modest 17 on 18 starters, and four laps after the winner Mchael May on a Stanguellini.

Look at the dramatic windscreen !!

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#23 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 17:13

With a lot of courage he try harder the following year with the same car (with a much more correct windscreen). But the time haved change and...Jim Clark was here with the new Lotus 18...

Henri Julien did not qualified with a very, very, slow time of 2'16"3/10 when the pole man Jimmy put 1'45" !! (more 31 seconds for a single lap...)

Here the pic

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#24 ian senior

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:04

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
For Henri Julien, the next step after 70-71 was a brand new monocoque F3. So he built the AGS JH9 in 1972 and François Guerre-Berthelot drive it for just one race at the end of the season.

The car was not realy a "beauty" !!!

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That is one very ugly racing car. The Chevron B18 is a thing of beauty by comparison!

#25 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:24

the first version was aceptable (see 21) but the second one !!! Have you see the water radiator on the left side ??

Fortunately the coming Formula 2 were far much glamours...

#26 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:36

Some time later the AGS produced the first Formule Renault Europe : the AGS JH13

Christian Ethuin, very fast driver, was behind the wheel

Here :

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#27 Hieronymus

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:09

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand

Christian Ethuin, very fast driver, was behind the wheel


Gérard

I understand the Ethuin died recently. Do you have the details? He was a winner in almost all classes of racing where he competed.

#28 HiRich

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:30

There's a nice little page about Julien on the Gonfaron site at http://www.gonfaron....it_h-julien.htm (cut and paste into Google languages if you want).

The Junior car looks suspiciously like a butchered version of the DB Panhard 500 or Monomille - whether it is, or just used similar sources, I have no idea.

#29 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 18:18

Thanks HiRich !

For the Henri Julien team, the serious things began with the AGS JH14 produced in 1976 for the acrobatic Jean Ragnotti.

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#30 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 19:35

an another very good pic of the AGS JH14 Formule Renault Europe

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#31 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 19:44

like the previous, it was with Richard Dallest the next year in 1977

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#32 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 23:00

Great pictures!

What was the difference between Formule Renault and Formule Renault Europe?

Allen

#33 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 05:49

Allen,

The Formule France created in 1968 used a Gordini 1300cc (from the R8 Gordini).
It became Formule Renault in 1971 wis the same regulations.

This Formule Renault used new Gordini 1600cc (from the new R12 Gordini) in 1972.

But, the F3 became near dead in France and in 1974, the FFSA ask Renault to created a "new" Formule who should be remplace the F3 2 liters.

So, in 1975 Renault created the Formule Renault Europe. The main difference with Formule Renault "nationale" was the "kit" Renault to transform the engine and give 160 bhp, the racing tyres Michelin 8" in front and 10" at rear, and aerodynamics (bigger wings, wider nose and so on).

It was a great Formule, and british constructors like March, Lola or Modus produced single seaters. In France the market was for Martini. (1975 1. Arnoux, 2. Ragnotti, 3. Pironi all on Martini)

In 1976, AGS catch Jean Ragnotti but cannot win a race (best place is 4th at Magny Cours and 11th at the Championship win by Didier Pironi on Martini)

In 1977, things go better for AGS with Richard Dallest who take Three second place at Nogaro, Magny Cours, Monza and three third place at Hockenheim, Dijon and Castellet. He finished 4th at the championship who was win by Alain Prost on a Martini.

For 1978...AGS built their first F2. An other story.

#34 philippe charuest

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 18:07

the f3 was more then near death, there was no more f3 in france from 74 to 77, i thinq that the original plan was to challenge the f3 and to create a truly european series ,and i recall that some race were outside france at monza and zolder for instance, but they were a litle ahead of there time ,spec series were not yet the trend ,the series only survive thee years 75-76-77 with arnoux-pironi -prost as champion. and for the english constructors only lola did well ,jean louis bousquet on a lola was the main challenger to prost on martini in 77

#35 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 18:54

and finaly come the first AGS Formula 2 : the JH15 for José Dolhem and Richard Dalest

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#36 Allen Brown

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 20:08

Originally posted by philippe charuest
the f3 was more then near death, there was no more f3 in france from 74 to 77, i thinq that the original plan was to challenge the f3 and to create a truly european series ,and i recall that some race were outside france at monza and zolder for instance, but they were a litle ahead of there time ,spec series were not yet the trend ,the series only survive thee years 75-76-77 with arnoux-pironi -prost as champion. and for the english constructors only lola did well ,jean louis bousquet on a lola was the main challenger to prost on martini in 77

It was consistent with Formula Ford 2000 and Formula Super Vee about the same time. I didn't realise it only lasted three years.

Allen

#37 Bonde

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 21:06

The 1975 Zolder Formule Renault Europe round was run on the morning of the 1975 Belgian Grand Prix (won by Arnoux, IIRC), and, IIRC, other rounds were run in conjunction with Formula 1 races, which does indicate a fairly high level of ambition for the series.

Didn't the technical specification for Formule Renault Europe more or less evolve into the "standard" specification for Formule Renault, perhaps except the banning of monocoque chassis?

I suppose some of the challenges of Formule Renault Europe were the more or less concurrent introduction of FF2000 and the change to water-cooled engines in Formula Super Vee. Of the three formulae mentioned, only FF2000 didn't allow monocoque chassis, which seemed to keep it affordable once sheet aluminium monocoques were outmoded by first aluminium honeycomb and then full carbon composite chassis, as Formula Super Vee became identical to F3 chassis-wise. The same cost explosion hit Formula Renault when it went to the spec carbon fibre chassis, rather than staying with a more or less Renault-engined FF2000 concept.

It only goes to show that even 30 years ago there were already too many formulae. We should've stuck forever with a 500cc class with motorcycle-engined cars, a 1000cc class with road car-based engines and other components, a 2000cc class for road car-based or full race engines, a 3 litre class for full race engines and a 5000cc class for road car-based engines...;)

Regarding Henri Julien: Has anybody got or read any of his 500cc F3-related books? I'm considering buying one or more of them.

(Edited thanks to Frank... :blush: ...the error was about 18mm on my keyboard...)

#38 Pils1989

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 21:15

Isn't there another Julien family involved in rallying or are they the same family?
Met a girl once (in 2000) in Paris with that same last name and she told me her family was into rallying in the South of France. I didn't ask much but I remeber her insiting they were not related to the stuntmen Julienne

#39 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 21:28

Funny how Julien produced his ugliest cars in an era where most others were gorgeous, and did some so neat designs in an era where most cars were awful !
Great thread and pics anyway Gérard :up: !

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
Il you speak of the patron : His surname is JULIEN and his christian name is Henri. A little man who always leave in Gonfaron is the south of France. (AGS is for Automobiles Gonfaronaises Sportives)

I think 275 wondered if the Henri Julien was family related to our cascadeur Rémy Julienne :).

Originally posted by Bonde
...banning of mobocoque chassis?

:lol: What a nice typo ! Would have been a perfect nickname for many IMSA cars of the 1980s, mob-O-cokes :D !

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#40 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 21:42

Originally posted by Pils1989
Isn't there another Julien family involved in rallying or are they the same family?
Met a girl once (in 2000) in Paris with that same last name and she told me her family was into rallying in the South of France. I didn't ask much but I remeber her insiting they were not related to the stuntmen Julienne

I know of a rallyman, IIRC from a town you know well yourself Antoine (Vence);) , called Francis Jullien. Only one I can think of but I am no rallying specialist.
:wave:

#41 Pils1989

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 22:26

Sent you a PM with more details :wave:

#42 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 22:45

Yep, but that old PM box of yours is full :D

#43 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 13:57

Franck,

That's true indeed

Here another interresting pic of the AGS JH15 formule 2

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#44 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 18:40

In 1979 came the new AGS JH16 drived by Alain Couderc (Where it is now ???)

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#45 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 18:49

an other one

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#46 Mallory Dan

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 15:17

Nice car Gerard, but looks v dated compared to the 792s and B48 doesn't it. Would have appeared more 'contemporary' in 1976-77 I reckon.

#47 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 18:46

Absolutly true...but the better came soon after with the pretty AGS JH17 of 1980

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#48 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 15:52

and the AGS JH18 for the 1981 season : a beautiful colored car

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#49 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 15:59

The car was drived mainly by Richard Dallest (with a best 5th place at Misano) but also by Patrick Gaillard, once, and...Tiff Needell, once also !

#50 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 16:57

I have find a very rare color pic of the AGS JH7 Formule Renault 1971 drived by Alain Couderc at Charade (20th)

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