58 replies to this topic

[Two_Jags]

Can't seem to find any explanations about this anywhere... How come Ferrari were running with Marlboro logos this weekend? I was under the impression that these were banned from end of 2006.

Anyone know what's going on & more importantly what the FIA/Bernie think about it?

[giacomo]

Cheating at Ferrari? Again?

;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

It is legal in Bahrain, and several other countries this year.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
It is legal in Bahrain, and several other countries this year.

They said total of 3 on Speed, so Bahrain is one. Which ones would be the two others?

Not any of the European races, I don't think that it is Japan.

Does that leave Brazil and China?? Is Turkey a European or Asian Grand Prix?

[former champ]

looks far better with the Marlboro branding though.

[GhostR]

Yep. IIRC the ban is an EU ban, with many non-EU countries having similar laws. Some countries, however, are still lagging behind - including Bahrain.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Japan should be legal, not sure about China.

Monaco will be a tobacco paradise.

[Juan Kerr]

Originally posted by GhostR
Yep. IIRC the ban is an EU ban, with many non-EU countries having similar laws. Some countries, however, are still lagging behind - including Bahrain.

Lagging behind ? Just a different philosophy in that country.

[Dragonfly]

Actually it came to me now - are alchohol ads forbidden in Bahrain?


Otherwise, IMHO the world would be a better place without purists and puritans.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Japan should be legal, not sure about China.

Monaco will be a tobacco paradise.

Monaco is EU/Eurozone is it not?

Actually it came to me now - are alchohol ads forbidden in Bahrain?

Alcohol is, ads are not. McLaren were running Johnnie Walker.

[Dragonfly]

Then it shows the hosting country as quite telerant, opposed to some posters here.

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by GhostR
Yep. IIRC the ban is an EU ban, with many non-EU countries having similar laws. Some countries, however, are still lagging behind - including Bahrain.

Or those countries don't see a reason to ban advertising a product that is perfectly legal.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Topweasel


Or those countries don't see a reason to ban advertising a product that is perfectly legal.

Ironically Bahrain it's NOT perfectly legal and they still ban it.

[macoran]

Originally posted by GhostR
Yep. IIRC the ban is an EU ban, with many non-EU countries having similar laws.

Yes, the ban is on advertising in the EU.
Apparantly broadcasting by TV isn't covered ?

Let's say a new state, non member of the EU is created somewhere, with a beautiful
state of the art race track.
All European GPs could be run there, all races broadcast with advertising all over the
place, thereby circumventing these EU regs.

No wonder BE wants more races in far away places.

[scheadle]

Alcohol is, ads are not. McLaren were running Johnnie Walker.

Alcohol certainly isn't banned in Bahrain. It is only banned amongst Muslims. Non Muslims are free to drink in Bahrain.

[Ali_G]

Originally posted by Dudley


Monaco is EU/Eurozone is it not?

Monaco is not in the EU but as with Vatican City they are part of the Eurozone as they use the Euro.

[kNt]

I also thought there as a gentleman's agreement on not to use Tobacco advertising anymore, but as most of the teams do well/better without tobacco ads they don't complain I guess.

[Dragonfly]

Originally posted by scheadle


Alcohol certainly isn't banned in Bahrain. It is only banned amongst Muslims. Non Muslims are free to drink in Bahrain.

Why then they do not have real Champagne on the podium?

[scheadle]

Originally posted by Dragonfly


Why then they do not have real Champagne on the podium?

It comes down to not ramming something down the Muslims necks. There are a huge number of establishments with alcohol licenses in Bahrain, but it is not permitted for Muslims to frequent them, (though in practice, Saudi businessmen often cross the bridge to go on the piss).

[Two_Jags]

Thanks for the explanation everyone - I didn't realise it was only selected countries.

It does seem a bit pointless banning it for all European GP's & then showing it on TV throughout all the European countries anyway.

No wonder BE wants more races in far away places.

Yes - that makes a lot of sense. At least until some countries refuse to take the TV feed if there's cigarette sponsorship - though I'd imagine Bernie has most TV stations tied to fairly watertight contracts for the next few years.

[KWSN - DSM]

It is pointless period.

[Rexx Havoc]

shouldn't the logos be blurred out in EU countries?

or else Bernie could hold all the races in countries that don't have a ban and then the logos and advertisements would be visible in countries that support the ban

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
Then it shows the hosting country as quite telerant, opposed to some posters here.

Yep. Bahrain is an extremely tolerant place.

Well, at least for the standards of a monarchy that does not care for Human Rights.

[scheadle]

Originally posted by giacomo
Yep. Bahrain is an extremely tolerant place.

Well, at least for the standards of a monarchy that does not care for Human Rights.

Bahrain is one of the best nations in the ME with regards to modernisation and human rights changes. Women are allowed to vote and go up for election, and human rights organisations are free to inspect jails.

If you want to use human rights abuses as a reason for not hosting a GP, then we should be nowhere near Indy. (Guantanamo is the most disgusting abuse of human rights of any western nation, and far worse than many 3rd world countries).

Due to the need for tourism in the area, (largely improved as a result of the GP), Bahrain really is a model for most of the region.

Bahrain, the UAE and Kuwait really are on a different level to what you imagine Middle Eastern countries to be.

[giacomo]

I never said that the Bahrain race should be cancelled.

F1 never cared for tolerance or Human Rights.
They drove in Peron's Argentina, the apartheid South Africa and nowadays in China, among other places.

F1 is all about the money.

[Dragonfly]

scheadle
Thanks for the explanations
There's always something more to learn.

[djned]

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc
shouldn't the logos be blurred out in EU countries?

ironically in today's itv coverage they blurred out a nescafe logo on lewis hamilton's drink bottle during an interview, but put the tobacco ones to air unimpeded. what's so offensive about nescafe? i've never seen any logo blurred out in f1 telecasts, tobacco or otherwise.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by scheadle


Bahrain is one of the best nations in the ME with regards to modernisation and human rights changes. Women are allowed to vote and go up for election, and human rights organisations are free to inspect jails.

I think that's what's called damning with faint praise ....

[AFCA]

Originally posted by former champ
looks far better with the Marlboro branding though.

Agreed !

[Dudley]

Originally posted by scheadle


Alcohol certainly isn't banned in Bahrain. It is only banned amongst Muslims. Non Muslims are free to drink in Bahrain.

Good to know. Thanks.

Monaco is not in the EU but as with Vatican City they are part of the Eurozone as they use the Euro.

So do you know what their situation is with fag-ads?

I also thought there as a gentleman's agreement on not to use Tobacco advertising anymore, but as most of the teams do well/better without tobacco ads they don't complain I guess.

There was a gentleman's agreement to ban it in F1 at the end of 2006 when the EU ban came into force.

Then without warning, that ***** at the EU suddenly moved the ban forward 18 months so F1 told them to **** off.

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by djned


ironically in today's itv coverage they blurred out a nescafe logo on lewis hamilton's drink bottle during an interview, but put the tobacco ones to air unimpeded. what's so offensive about nescafe? i've never seen any logo blurred out in f1 telecasts, tobacco or otherwise.

My guess: http://en.wikipedia..../Nestlé_boycott

[scheadle]

There was a gentleman's agreement to ban it in F1 at the end of 2006 when the EU ban came into force.

Then without warning, that ***** at the EU suddenly moved the ban forward 18 months so F1 told them to **** off.

Or as was in the case in the UK, Bernie simply offered Blair 1 million pounds.

My guess: http://en.wikipedia..../Nestlé_boycott

This basically seems to be a war waged by the "breast is best" campaigners.

What these people seem to fail to understand, is the fact that a large number of people can't breast feed. For instance, my children were both raised on formula feed, with the reason being that my wife was taking anti depressants that mean't that breast feeding was impossible.

[Cenotaph]

The Ferrari looks so much better with the Marlboro logos, I wish there were no bans on tobacco advertising at all, tbh. And i'm not a smoker.

[Risil]

Originally posted by scheadle

What these people seem to fail to understand, is the fact that a large number of people can't breast feed. For instance, my children were both raised on formula feed, with the reason being that my wife was taking anti depressants that mean't that breast feeding was impossible.

Yes, but in large parts of Africa, most people can't afford to do anything else, for financial and sanitary reasons. Marketing their powdered milk, fully knowing that mothers would have to use contaminated water to use their product, was unethical in the extreme, and fully deserving of such legal and civil action.

[Spyker MF1]

Originally posted by Cenotaph
The Ferrari looks so much better with the Marlboro logos, I wish there were no bans on tobacco advertising at all, tbh. And i'm not a smoker.

Totally agree the cars look so much better and tbh if anyone is influenced by a car saying Marlbora or B&H or what ever brand then they ned to be sent back to primary school so they can develop a brain. I also think thatif tobacco adverising is baned o should gambling and alcohol as they can be just as dangerous to some. I'm pretty sure that Monaco is one of the places for tobacco advertising from what I remeber hearing about it. Not sure what the other country is though. Also not smoker I think it's appsolutly disgusting.

Also how come the cars aren't alowed it in Malaysia??

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by former champ
looks far better with the Marlboro branding though.

How can a race car look better with a tobacco brand splatered all over it? Incomprehencable :

[Lantern]

Originally posted by VresiBerba

How can a race car look better with a tobacco brand splatered all over it? Incomprehencable :

Well, having the white blank logos cutting into the red is what they were referring to.

Kinda like when Williams had Bud wrote on their cars instead of crowns and garbage. It's not that hard to figure.


The days of racing stripes, numbers and logos are gone. I will miss them hugely. But, now beauty must be seen as relative. And relative to big white vees and bar code looking rear wings, the Marly bee logo looked pretty nice.

[Risil]

Originally posted by VresiBerba

How can a race car look better with a tobacco brand splatered all over it? Incomprehencable :

Those JPS Lotuses looked pretty cool. And look at the Mild Seven Renaults compared to the ING monstrosity. Tobacco companies depend on aesthetically-pleasing, effective boxes for a large part of their sales, so naturally this expertise in knowing which colours work transfers effectively to the F1 liveries which often mimic the tobacco packaging. It's no coincidence that some of F1's most recognisable colour schemes (for example Gold Leaf and later JPS Lotus, Rothmans' Williams and of course Marlboro Mclaren) were the brainchild of the tobacco companies.

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by Dudley


Ironically Bahrain it's NOT perfectly legal and they still ban it.

I did a quick search but can can you tell me where I can find proof that cigarettes are illegal in Bahrain. In my search I found a report saying a quarter of their pop was addicted to nicotine. If it was illegal I would guess that the number would be a lot lower then that.

Obviously advertising wasn't banned or otherwise Ferrari wouldn't have had the nifty Marlboro titles on its car.

I would love to get a hold of a team polo with the Marlboro patches, getting the one with stripes doesn't seem to look nearly as good.

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by VresiBerba

How can a race car look better with a tobacco brand splatered all over it? Incomprehencable :

Now I can understand saying that a particular brands look isn't that good, but what does the fact that it is a tobacco brand have to do with it looking good. All the teams have one main advertising splattered all over their car does it really matter in terms of looks whether or not that brand is a tobacco brand?

[KWSN - DSM]

I vote Honda's current scheme "Worst ever", and that is a hyprocritical concept / idea on top of that.

Good thing they are so slow, that we almost do not see them.

[Cenotaph]

Honda aren't really slow. They just choose to qualify poorly, because they don't want to be part of that fuel burning madness in Q3, it's just not a 'green' thing to do.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Cenotaph
Honda aren't really slow. They just choose to qualify poorly, because they don't want to be part of that fuel burning madness in Q3, it's just not a 'green' thing to do.

Best excuse yet.

[former champ]

Originally posted by VresiBerba

How can a race car look better with a tobacco brand splatered all over it? Incomprehencable :

its far better than barcodes. No matter what it actually is.

[former champ]

Originally posted by Cenotaph
The Ferrari looks so much better with the Marlboro logos, I wish there were no bans on tobacco advertising at all, tbh. And i'm not a smoker.

[Rexx Havoc]

Originally posted by former champ


its far better than barcodes. No matter what it actually is.

huh ... I thought it was like the redstripe candies
but yeah I do see the barcode

[Dudley]

Originally posted by scheadle


Or as was in the case in the UK, Bernie simply offered Blair 1 million pounds.

That was half a decade earlier. It didn't have the slightest effect.

I did a quick search but can can you tell me where I can find proof that cigarettes are illegal in Bahrain. In my search I found a report saying a quarter of their pop was addicted to nicotine. If it was illegal I would guess that the number would be a lot lower then that.

I was refering to Alcohol not tobacco.

And I was wrong anyway.

[mel]

Some interesting, but off topic posts removed. Contact me if you need to follow up.
-mel BB admin

[AFCA]

Marlboro explains tobacco liveries

Formula 1 viewers around the world may have noticed that the Ferraris racing in Bahrain featured Marlboro branding, despite the fact that tobacco advertising was supposed to have disappeared from the sport at the end of 2006, as part of an agreement known as the "International Tobacco Products Marketing Standards", signed by Philip Morris (Marlboro's parent), British American Tobacco and Japan Tobacco on September 11, 2001.

That agreement received very little coverage at the time because of the events that took place that day in New York but the deal existed nonetheless and in it, the three companies pledged to "comply with these standards as quickly as possible, and in any event no later than 12 months from the date that it subscribes to the standards or, where existing contractual provisions prevent earlier compliance, in any event by December 31, 2002".

According to Maurizio Arrivebene, the Vice-President of Marlboro Motorsport Marketing, the agreement was "not successful" because "the self-imposed restrictions envisioned by these voluntary marketing standards were not broadly adopted, provided no gain to society and put us at a competitive disadvantage."

History, however, does not agree with the Marlboro interpretation of what happened to the agreement.

In February 2006 Japan Tobacco announced its intention to withdraw from Formula 1, "in order to keep its commitment to the International Tobacco Products Marketing Standards, an agreement made in September 2001 by representatives of Philip Morris International, British American Tobacco and Japan Tobacco which included the declared intention to end sports sponsorships on December 1, 2006 on the understanding that the sports involved required 'above-average physical fitness for someone of the age group of those taking part'."

In October last year British American Tobacco announced its withdrawal from F1, saying that it was "honouring a commitment to leave F1 by the end of this year - a move consistent with the International Marketing Standards which it voluntarily subscribed to in 2001 along with its two major international tobacco company competitors".

Marlboro's interpretation of the agreement thus seems to be out of step with those of the two other signatories. There is not much that can be done about this but the move is unlikely to go unremarked in the sometimes rabid world of anti-tobacco campaigning.

[scottb32]

What about that forbidden livery on the Renault?

You know, the ING livery. Usery (charging interest) is forbidden by many muslims. All irony aside, Bernie is doing a good job at reaching out to different cultures (faux-champagne is fine). Like all sport, issues of politics/religion should be treated with tolerance - hence we will ban champagne from Indy this year. You know - the corks will sooner or later lead to an injury lawsuit here in sue-happy USA