48 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

I have just posted a set of McLaren M10B histories on OldRacingCars.com.

This is one of the most complex histories so far and much more information is still needed to resolve the cars racing in minor events in the UK in the mid-1970s and also to sort out where some of the cars are today.

Former owners Jim Moore, John Wallwork, Bob Leckie, Noel le Tissier, John Taylor, John Bailey, Harry Phillips, Dennis Basson, Pierre Soukry and Clive Santo could help greatly, as could Vebra owner Clive Bracy. Anyone in touch with any of them?

Thanks

Allen

[beighes]

Greetings Allen,
I just e-mailed you some trivia from my archives. Cheers!!
Steve

[Allen Brown]

Thanks Steve.

Clive Santo can be scratched from that list as I've just remember his son posted here last year.

Allen

[Gary C]

Doesn't Clive now work for FOM??

[f1steveuk]

He's still Bernie's sidekick/pilot factotum/ collector of wellies from Harrods etc etc I have his e mail address if needed

[Allen Brown]

Yes please Steve. I've emailed his son but a direct contact would be simpler.

As for the rest, I have a few rough locations if that would help:

Jim Moore - Thornton Heath?
John Wallwork - Lancashire - Southport area?
Bob Leckie - Scotland - Aberdeen I think
Noel le Tissier - Channel Islands
John Taylor - England somewhere
John Bailey - England somewhere
Harry Phillips - South Wales?
Dennis Basson - Reading
Pierre Soukry - Belgium?
Clive Bracy - England somewhere

Thanks

Allen

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Yes please Steve. I've emailed his son but a direct contact would be simpler.

Thanks

Allen

Allen, have pm'd you. Did you see the chassis on Ebay I posted under "What is it"??

[Ray Bell]

You don't need anything from Niel Allen or Frank Matich?

[Allen Brown]

Thanks Ray, but their cars are reasonably well understood. It's the UK-based ones that are the problem.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Thanks to a clue from Pete Stowe, I spoke to Clive Bracey this afternoon so that's another name that can be crossed off.

John Wallwork may well be the Volvo dealer in Preston. I'll find out tomorrow.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
John Wallwork may well be the Volvo dealer in Preston. I'll find out tomorrow.

Not any more apparantly. Taken over by someone who was taken over by someone who was taken over by someone ...

Harry Phillips' home town was Coventry. Does that help?

Allen

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Afriend of mine should know the whereabouts of Harry Phillips , I have emailed him and am awaiting a reply.

[Allen Brown]

Thanks Edward



I need to add a name to the list.

Peter Gerrish - Wooton-on-Edge as of 1972

Peter advertised a "McLaren M10B TVR modified to M22 type spec with March F1 wheels and uprights" for a very reasonable £250 in 1972. The TVR business could be a reference to a 4.7-litre Ford engine, as found in the TVR Griffith and Tuscan in the late 1960s.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Thanks Ray, but their cars are reasonably well understood. It's the UK-based ones that are the problem.

That stands to reason...

Niel has fond memories of his M10B. Spent some time talking with him about it the other night.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Thanks Edward



I need to add a name to the list.

Peter Gerrish - Wooton-on-Edge as of 1972

Peter advertised a "McLaren M10B TVR modified to M22 type spec with March F1 wheels and uprights" for a very reasonable £250 in 1972. The TVR business could be a reference to a 4.7-litre Ford engine, as found in the TVR Griffith and Tuscan in the late 1960s.

£250? Are you sure that's right, Allen? It seems like an awfully tiny amount of money even for 1972, unless the car was an absolute shed.

[Allen Brown]

I just went and checked. Yes, £250. I think the car was a collection of bits. I notice on rereading the advert that the uprights were unmachined. The TVR bit is a puzzle - I don't think an engine was included.

Allen

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

I will have contact details for Harry Phillips early nxt week .

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I just went and checked. Yes, £250. I think the car was a collection of bits. I notice on rereading the advert that the uprights were unmachined. The TVR bit is a puzzle - I don't think an engine was included.

Allen

Been having a think about this. Surely they would have referred to a Ford V8 engine - in those days, no-one ever thought of TVR engines, and of course Ford V8s had appeared in F5000. Could the "TVR" here be a reference to a racing team or racing preparation outfit - sort of "Tom Vickers Racing" (the name Tom Vickers chosen entirely at random to fill in the gap!) - and the text in the ad really meaning "modified by TVR (this putative outfit) to M22 spec"? If so, all we have to do now is find out just who were TVR.......

[Ray Bell]

I'd agree with that...

Much more likely to have been the scenario.

By the way, was Tom Vickers related to the Bob Vickers who raced in F3 in Australia?













.....Just thought I'd ask.....

[Peter Brennan]

Allen,
Lynden Reithmuller has 2 cars,400-02 is his other.I do recall Tony Edmonson breaking it up to build his Alfetta/chev.I am positive it was the Cameron car.Lynden bought the tub and wishbones from Tony when he owned Elfin Sports Cars.Lynden has been rebuilding the car using his other car as the pattern.
Regards Pete

[Ted Walker]

Peter Gerrish also had the H16 BRM that was converted to a F5000. I think he still lives over the hill from me I will find out Allen.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Peter Gerrish also had the H16 BRM that was converted to a F5000. I think he still lives over the hill from me I will find out Allen.

Would that be one of the two cars currently for sale at Cheshire Classics?

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Would that be one of the two cars currently for sale at Cheshire Classics?

Are they real?
I'd asumed they were something like Grand Prix movie cars (e.g. dressed up juniors), space frame at the back could be a chassis rather than engine substitute.

It is unlikely that the real ones would appear together - the Caister car is supposedly never going to be sold, Donington one unlikely, same with the Australian one. Or is it the P83 & P109 from Australia???

Both F5000 P83s (one Ford, one Rover engined) seem to have had H-16s refitted before becoming museum exhibits.

[Allen Brown]

Has a nice chat with Noel le Tissier yesterday. The car was owned by Tom Coughlan and he recalls that Tony Chadney drove it for Tom before he did. He had a big crash at Shelsley one year (almost certainly 1975, maybe 1976) but unfortunately there's no mention of it in Autosport.

Thanks to everyone who's helping track these people down. I'm very grateful.

Allen

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


That stands to reason...

Niel has fond memories of his M10B. Spent some time talking with him about it the other night.

Ray, Does this suggest that I might be able to read an article on Niel Allen somewhere soon ?
I'd certainly like too....

I really liked that 10B of Niels in the dark green almost blackish colour scheme.... would have loved to see him win the Tasman Series that year... in that car....

Hope I'm not off topic here....

BTW, another great page on the 10B's Allen

[Ray Bell]

Not too soon, Leo, but it will happen some time...

When it does it will be a big one. I think he deserves that, the effort he put into his racing and the lack of positive press at the time.

And he's still the same Niel. Wears glasses all the time now, and the passing of another 34 years shows a little. But the enthusiasm is still running deep and he keeps in touch with things quite well.

Did you also like the Jacky Ickx-type treatment of his helmet when he raced in that colour?

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Did you also like the Jacky Ickx-type treatment of his helmet when he raced in that colour?

The same colour as the car Ray?..... with gold coloured "Chrome" like tape ( hope that makes sense) around the skirt of the helmet... not sure if it was around the eye port as well.....

This colour scheme was a departure from the iridescent/metalic blue colour that he ran from the latter days of the Elfin 400.... through the ME5... McLaren 4A.... and finally the McLaren 10B that he set the lap record at Bathurst in ??

I'm guessing that the change in colour schemes came about because of the change in oil company sponsorship as much as anything??

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Peter Morley


Are they real?
I'd asumed they were something like Grand Prix movie cars (e.g. dressed up juniors), space frame at the back could be a chassis rather than engine substitute.

It is unlikely that the real ones would appear together - the Caister car is supposedly never going to be sold, Donington one unlikely, same with the Australian one. Or is it the P83 & P109 from Australia???

Both F5000 P83s (one Ford, one Rover engined) seem to have had H-16s refitted before becoming museum exhibits.

Details provided by Cheshire Classics who have the two cars for sale:

CHASSIS NUMBER 8301 - The first 3 litre (H16) BRM built. It was used in the initial test and development work, and attended nearly every Grand Prix during 1966 and 1967 – driven by Hill, Stewart, Spence and Irwin. Uniquely, the car was then converted by the factory to F5000 specification and subsequently raced by Terry Sanger.
It is offered as a substantially complete car, the only significant items missing being the gearbox, master cylinders and a radiator. The car requires some mechanical restoration but has refurbished and repainted bodywork. It has a chassis plate and continuous history from new.

PROJECT 109 - This 1967 car was prepared as an exhibition version of the H16 engined P83 for Expo 67 in Montreal, and has never raced. It is offered as a rolling chassis for restoration.
The car is substantially complete apart from engine and gearbox, and is in generally good order throughout. It has a chassis plate and continuous history from new.

Both cars have been in Australia from 1981 until 2005 and are being sold on behalf of the current owner.

[Allen Brown]

Those histories are entirely correct. How refreshing! They've not mentioned quite a few intermediate owners of 8301 but that's of no great consequence.

Peter Gerrish's car was 8303 by the way, the one now in Caister Castle.

Allen

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Those histories are entirely correct. How refreshing! They've not mentioned quite a few intermediate owners of 8301 but that's of no great consequence.

Peter Gerrish's car was 8303 by the way, the one now in Caister Castle.

Allen

Presumably the Donington H-16 is 8302 then?

I wonder if the new(ish) owner of a Lotus 43 had to buy these to obtain an engine?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Alan check your pm for Harry Phillips contact details.

[Allen Brown]

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

Allen

[Leo D]

Allen,
I'm assuming that whilst collecting the data on 10B's, you would have come across plenty of information on 10A's. Is there a likelyhood that we may also see a page dedicated to the 10A's to complete the story, so to speak?

BTW, I first came across your site whilst surfing for info on Lola F5000's and have always enjoyed its content

[Allen Brown]

There is indeed a page on the M10As but it's not yet published as it's some way from being ready. Anyone who read the M10B page in detail would have come across an inadvertent link to the M10A page. Too late now, I've removed it

It will be ready soon, as will a page on the 1968-69 Eagle Formula A.

Allen

[Slow M]

Originally posted by ian senior

Been having a think about this. Surely they would have referred to a Ford V8 engine - in those days, no-one ever thought of TVR engines, and of course Ford V8s had appeared in F5000. Could the "TVR" here be a reference to a racing team or racing preparation outfit - sort of "Tom Vickers Racing" (the name Tom Vickers chosen entirely at random to fill in the gap!) - and the text in the ad really meaning "modified by TVR (this putative outfit) to M22 spec"? If so, all we have to do now is find out just who were TVR.......

Sorry to re-awaken this old thread but I came across it while researching this car
It was a car Mike Bigland built for Richard Taft and it may have gone via Spotty Smith to Brian Hough who was killed in the car in a racing accident.
Apparently, this Chassis was the departure point for the TVR M series Chassis. The finished car looked like this.
I think the rear uprights are McLaren M10a

I may have the chronology mixed up.
Bernard

[Vicuna]

I would give up body parts to be a current owner of an M10B...

...although there are two things in particular I would need to drive one quickly!

[markal]

The tvr was built for Richard Taft in 1971 it was sold in 1972 to Martin Lilley the then owner of Tvr he put Ted Worswick in it, Brian Hough did very well in a 3ltr Tuscan so Martin asked him to race the big un!. Brian was killed at Thruxton 28/10/73, the rear uprights are Mclaren F1 1970 vintage, regards Alan

[Slow M]

Alan,
do you know if the car survives today?
Where it is, who has it.........
How's your own TVR project?
BH

[Gregor Marshall]

I think it was destroyed in a seperate incident after Brian's fatal accident. I think you might find the answer in the thread you've contributed to on PH but I'll check the TVR books tonight too.

[markal]

The Tvr was totally wrecked at Thruxton, sadly never to be seen again, i have copies of all the invoices from when the car was built, and when it was sold to Martin Lilley, my Tvr V8 is great, if you send me a contact number through my email Slow M, regards Alan.

[RJE]

I don't like to muddy the waters here but I once had some dealings with a Canadian gentleman then resident in Los Angeles by the name of Allan Bouverate. He ran a motor racing sponsorship company called Autosport Promotions based in Torrance in south LA. I am convinced he told me he owned and raced an M10 in 'clubby' events. This would have been around March 1971 as I was in California for the Questor GP. I can see no record of him in the history and I am begining to think I may be loosing it.

He had a lot of high flying pals, Posey, Revson, Adamowicz ect. He wanted to set up an office in the UK. I think he may have had connections with UOP. I know he had intentions of getting into F1 sponsorship.

It's the M10 thing I would like to know about.

[raceannouncer2003]

Originally posted by RJE
I don't like to muddy the waters here but I once had some dealings with a Canadian gentleman then resident in Los Angeles by the name of Allan Bouverate. He ran a motor racing sponsorship company called Autosport Promotions based in Torrance in south LA. I am convinced he told me he owned and raced an M10 in 'clubby' events. This would have been around March 1971 as I was in California for the Questor GP. I can see no record of him in the history and I am begining to think I may be loosing it.

He had a lot of high flying pals, Posey, Revson, Adamowicz ect. He wanted to set up an office in the UK. I think he may have had connections with UOP. I know he had intentions of getting into F1 sponsorship.

It's the M10 thing I would like to know about.

Alan Bouverat, Palos Verdes, drove a McLaren Mk10A in Formula 5000 in 1969 and 1970.

Vince H.

[RJE]

Vince.
Thanks for that, obviously after all this time I got the spelling of his name wrong but the Palos Verdes home would tie in with the Torrance business address.

[richie]

I have just posted a set of McLaren M10B histories on OldRacingCars.com.

This is one of the most complex histories so far and much more information is still needed to resolve the cars racing in minor events in the UK in the mid-1970s and also to sort out where some of the cars are today.

Former owners Jim Moore, John Wallwork, Bob Leckie, Noel le Tissier, John Taylor, John Bailey, Harry Phillips, Dennis Basson, Pierre Soukry and Clive Santo could help greatly, as could Vebra owner Clive Bracy. Anyone in touch with any of them?

Thanks

Allen

I understood Jim Moore lived in Bournemouth so I've been trawling through the phone book without success. Any clues where he lives or a contact no?

[Red Socks]

Allen did you ever talk to Peter Gerrish - he is a mate of mine, lives not 20 miles from you.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

I sent Alan Brown the details on Harry Phillips in 2007

[timf5000]

I understood Jim Moore lived in Bournemouth so I've been trawling through the phone book without success. Any clues where he lives or a contact no?

Jim Moore recently advertised the ex-Keith Holland/Ian Ward Trojan T101 in Motor Sport. Think I had a tidy-up under orders and filed my copy with last 3 months motor mags in the loft!

[Allen Brown]

My subscription to this thread was lost somehow so thanks for the recent posts.

No Red, I haven't even spoken to Peter Gerrish.

[richie]

Jim Moore recently advertised the ex-Keith Holland/Ian Ward Trojan T101 in Motor Sport. Think I had a tidy-up under orders and filed my copy with last 3 months motor mags in the loft!

Any chance of finding then I can make the necessary call.