27 replies to this topic

[sammyandres]

Ive been thinking of building an F1 tub with maybe the airbox bit and the begining of the sidepods, to install a racing simulator like GP4 with the steering wheel and pedals like a real f1 car. Has anyone of you here tried this or know some one who has? I dont know what kind of materials to use apart from carbon fibre. Any sugestions would be appreciated. Thanks

Sammy

[rhm]

For something that's just going to sit in your house, you can use a wet layup of chopped-strand glass fibre mat and polyester resin. Beware that to make something that looks even vaguely like a formula car you will have to spend a very long time making the plugs for the moulds. Making anything but the simplest shapes with composites - even the basic ones like I mentioned - it extremely time consuming because of the need to make moulds. But I can't think of any other construction technique that will give you the same look as a racing tub. If you don't know much about this kind of construction, the book Competition Car Composites by Simon McBeath in a great introduction even if you're only making a model of a car rather than an actual car.

[McGuire]

Sounds like way too much work to me for the final product, total overkill. All that buck and mold-building and all that stink and mess... doesn't seem worth it to me.

How about two longitudinal 2x4s to serve as the base and carpet runners. Then four 3/4" plywood station bulkheads (spaced front to rear) with 1 1/2" x 3/16" ash stringers to serve as both the skeleton and body buck, then sheet plastic bent and formed over it (with a little help from a heat gun) and pop-riveted to the stringers. Floor is 1/2" or 3/4" plywood. In other words, build it just like a traditional aluminum formula car tub except in wood and plastic. (Or you could use aluminum for the skin tho I don't know why you should.) If you paint and trim it up nice and line the inside with fake carbon-fiber stick-on vinyl I bet it will look fabulous.

And it will take one Saturday, instead of weeks and weeks and weeks. If it doesn't have to go around a track there is no sense building it like it someday might. It's really furniture so you may as well build it like furniture.

[sammyandres]

Thanks guys for your reply's... You are right it is going to be a piece of furniture. I thought about building it out of wood as well, I was just curious if anyone has had a go at a similar project and what type of materials they used. I guess that is why these cars cost millions of dollars eh! Thanks again..

Sammy

[zac510]

You might aswell make it comfortable to sit in for hours at a time too!

[McGuire]

Don't forget the cupholders.

[Bloggsworth]

Buy an old Formula Ford and chop it off behind the roll hoop....................

[Beamer]

Originally posted by sammyandres
Thanks guys for your reply's... You are right it is going to be a piece of furniture. I thought about building it out of wood as well, I was just curious if anyone has had a go at a similar project and what type of materials they used. I guess that is why these cars cost millions of dollars eh! Thanks again..

Sammy

I'm actually building one right now as a birthday gift for a friend that turns 40 next month. It's mainly a wooden frame with adjustable seat an pedals and a plywood cover. I will post some images over te coming week. It's got a bit of a 'retro' look, (late 60's) mainly because those shapes are easier to make.

[sammyandres]

Ive looked all over ebay for an old formula tub but they dont sell them like that. Do any of you guys know where to find one in the states? I would love to see the photos of your project Beamer, sounds prety cool... I never thought to make it more retro looking, that would definately be easier to build.

Sammy

[J. Edlund]

Originally posted by sammyandres
Ive looked all over ebay for an old formula tub but they dont sell them like that. Do any of you guys know where to find one in the states? I would love to see the photos of your project Beamer, sounds prety cool... I never thought to make it more retro looking, that would definately be easier to build.

Sammy

There are F3 and other tubs availible, but no F1 tubs for the time being it seems like. Have however seen "naked" F1 tubs for sale.

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/
http://www.race-cars.com/

[Engineguy]

You might be interested in "Black Fiberglass" (it's black pigmented E-glass cloth) if you're going for authentic appearance. Used with any clear resin... polyester (very cheap), vinylester, or epoxy... you can tell your buddies it's carbon and they'll never know.

You only need it for the visible side(s) of parts... use $7/yd "boat" cloth for the rest of the layup. It's 50" wide, so a single yard would probably do the visible area of a cockpit (just flat black the footwell area).

One yard (50" x 36") $39.95
3 yards (50" x 108") $109.95
5 yards (50" x 180") $179.95
10 to 24 yards - cost per yard $33.00

From http://www.fiberglast.com:

Black Fiberglass
50” Wide, Twill Weave
Black fiberglass is woven to look just like 3K Twill carbon fiber. Of course, it does not have any of the strength properties associated with carbon. Black fiberglass is generally about half the price of carbon and it is an ideal alternative to carbon for cosmetic applications.

[Greg Locock]

Only half the price!! Ah well, at least you know what that Ferrari dashboard is made of now.

[phantom II]

The fastest and easiest way to do it is to use polyurethane foam. www.elliotfoam.com If you want to produce the car in quantity, you will need to make moulds. Clay products from www.chavant.com to place on top of the foam is required. See model below. You can purchase carving tools from them also. Ordinary rasps and sand paper is all that is required for the foam.
Moulds can be taken directly of the clay. I never use a gel coat even on the full size yellow car that the model is placed on.
Just spray a release agent such as ordinary floor wax cut with paraffin directly onto the clay. Spray on a ton of primer filler directly onto that. Lay the glass onto the filler. Smooth it out, make body parts the same way and use ordinary automotive paint.
Carve out the tub out of a block of this foam. If you screw up, just cut out the damaged section and glue another section in place.
Instant results. It is so simple it is a joke. Do one side and make templates for the other. If you choose a one off tub, you can lay about two layers of #12 cloth directly onto the foam. If you work carefully with the cloth all you will need to smooth it out will be several coats of primer filler spayed on top of the glass. Finish that directly. You can use an 18th scale model for proportions and details..
Dig out the foam and place tub onto a sheet of plywood. Wallah. Wings are a synch. The fake Ferrari below is done this way. You can use fake stick on carbon fiber sheets on the inside.
You can do the whole car in foam in one day. Have fun.

[Engineguy]

As long as we're discussing carbon fiber toys, I'll take this opportunity to show off my daughter's 1999 Kindy 500 racer... probably (probably?) the only one ever built from carbon fiber. They're supposed to be based on a cardboard box... we started with a long narrow McCulloch string trimmer box, did some oragami cuts to narrow and taper the front into the nose shape, and rejoined the cut edges with some carbon cloth strips and epoxy. A rigid PVC tubing subframe runs from the rear wing to the suspension pickup points. The wings are a carbon-foam-carbon sandwich pinched off at the edges to join the skins... they were molded in steel tooling made to fabricate a FermiLab (DOE) experimental particle accelerator detection test section. The tires are CF over florist's foam discs. Induction ram tubes from Charmin. And yes, my daughter helped with all the fabrication (except the wings). The associate sponsor, Applied Composites (the white stickers on the wings) was one of my major clients at the time... they're good people for difficult composite stuff... lots of factory racing program supply experience, Champcar tub, sidepod, and wing tooling, IRL, Champcar, and FAA certified repair station, original manufacturer of Zipp CF bicycle wheels and frames, etc.



Rebecca "Schumacher" lurks in the background in her Benneton F1 car...


Note she's running the chassis in a nose-up attitude on the straights to reduce the wings' AoA and minimise drag. By the way, although it may look bulky, but it weighs next to nothing.

[phantom II]

Cute. See the poor little Testa Rosa kid devastated by his defeat by a girl. He is not the only broken heart that she will leave in her wake. Poor guys. Poor poor guys.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Engineguy
[B]As long as we're discussing carbon fiber toys
Rebecca "Schumacher" lurks in the background in her Benneton F1 car...

[Powersteer]

Real funny stuff ther Engineguy. Weight?

[Engineguy]

Originally posted by Powersteer
Real funny stuff ther Engineguy. Weight?

I'm sad to say, I don't recall weighing it. We gave the wheels away a few years later... then it didn't make sense to keep the car... all I have now is the wings.

Foam weighs nothing, single layers (.017") of carbon weigh nothing, the bottom of the cardboard box is cut away, wing mounting bolts and nuts are nylon, the glued frame of rigid PVC tubing and fittings was pinky-lift light... I don't know... 1.5 to 2 lbs. maybe? It felt sorta like an RC plane... i.e. like you could put a motor and prop on it and fly it.

[Engineguy]

Originally posted by phantom II
Cute. See the poor little Testa Rosa kid devastated by his defeat by a girl.

The little Testa Rosa girl may have really been devastated when this picture was taken. Her dad, who I only knew only as my daughter's eye surgeon, died suddenly right around this time. She and my daughter were best friends for a few years. One evening, probably a year after this, when she was spending the night with my daughter, she quietly told me she missed her daddy, and asked if it was OK if she pretended I was her daddy while she was there... choked me up pretty good.

[imaginesix]

**** man, posts like that need some kind of warning.

[Beamer]

Originally posted by phantom II
The fastest and easiest way to do it is to use polyurethane foam. www.elliotfoam.com If you want to produce the car in quantity, you will need to make moulds. Clay products from www.chavant.com to place on top of the foam is required. See model below. You can purchase carving tools from them also. Ordinary rasps and sand paper is all that is required for the foam.
Moulds can be taken directly of the clay. I never use a gel coat even on the full size yellow car that the model is placed on.
Just spray a release agent such as ordinary floor wax cut with paraffin directly onto the clay. Spray on a ton of primer filler directly onto that. Lay the glass onto the filler. Smooth it out, make body parts the same way and use ordinary automotive paint.
Carve out the tub out of a block of this foam. If you screw up, just cut out the damaged section and glue another section in place.
Instant results. It is so simple it is a joke. Do one side and make templates for the other. If you choose a one off tub, you can lay about two layers of #12 cloth directly onto the foam. If you work carefully with the cloth all you will need to smooth it out will be several coats of primer filler spayed on top of the glass. Finish that directly. You can use an 18th scale model for proportions and details..
Dig out the foam and place tub onto a sheet of plywood. Wallah. Wings are a synch. The fake Ferrari below is done this way. You can use fake stick on carbon fiber sheets on the inside.
You can do the whole car in foam in one day. Have fun.

http://img388.images...4/shark1zm4.jpg

http://img84.imagesh...overfoamkk8.jpg

http://img489.images...1repctjbzd5.jpg

WOW! COOL STUFF!!! must try that once!

btw: My wood-based model is nearly finished. It's painted already and i'm finishing the seat this afternoon, so pictures will be up 2day or tomorrow!

[Melbourne Park]

I've got an old formula ford in the garage ... you could buy a cheap old race car as an investment, and put the screen on top of the steering column. However the pedals will be too far forward, because of the real ones down there. And its not quite as convenient as having it inside the house.

Still, maybe that's a way i could convince the other half that the FF could work well inside ...

[sammyandres]

hey Melbourne Park How much is a an old FF? All I need is the rolling chassis.. No engine..

[zac510]

Originally posted by Engineguy
As long as we're discussing carbon fiber toys, I'll take this opportunity to show off my daughter's 1999 Kindy 500 racer...

And I thought you were just an engine guy!

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by sammyandres
hey Melbourne Park How much is a an old FF? All I need is the rolling chassis.. No engine..

What country? One with a history is better for the long term. A few thousand dollars, and upwards. Depends on the car, and whether some someone aventually decides they will give it away. Ones in home garages suffer from wife phobias, but then wives aren't normally as keen on garages as husbands are; but there are wives who like to use a garage, and having an old FF in it can at times unbalance such females. If its in a shed somewhere, your chances of a cheaper car go up, but their chances of wanting to give it away go down.

Look at the net though - there are superb cars for around 20 G. You don't need a superb one. The engines are cheap too, but a complete one with spares and bits, and preferably in bits, might be ideal.

There are lots of other no good race cars tubs around too ... just a thought. If you did spend on such a thing, it would be more sailable than you're own device. But a real one is much larger ... but then more fun. Most real race cars have very nice seats too, and a real smell.

[phantom II]

Slightly OT: Talking about materials, you can watch or stream Autoline Detroit live or archive. http://www.autolined...it.tv/autoline/
Next Sunday 27th, @ 7am EST US or 0300 zulu, Dr.Alan Taub of GMs reasearch lab will talk about smart materials that will be used in future production cars including plastics and metals that change form with an electrical current and thier aplication. You can catch the preview at the tail end of todays broadcast now.

[phantom II]

Corrections:

Originally posted by phantom II
Slightly OT: Talking about materials, you can watch or stream Autoline Detroit live or archive. http://www.autolined...it.tv/autoline/
Next Sunday 27th, @ 7am EST US or 11.00 zulu, Dr.Alan Taub of GMs reasearch lab will talk about smart materials that will be used in future production cars including plastics and metals that change form with an electrical current and their application. You can catch the preview at the tail end of todays broadcast now.

[ReynardDave]

Here's another way to build a smooth shape without a mold. A good way to go if you're doing a one-off.


http://www.kr2-egb.com.ar/Fuselaje.htm

[Lurb]

This is perhaps less ambitious that what you had in mind, but I think the balance between feasability/looks is nice:

http://forum.rscnet....ad.php?t=264707

Go to the second page to check the end result.