23 replies to this topic

[john aston]

Just been reading a rather superficial article on F40 in Classic and Sportscar.It claimed that the F40 was 5 seconds a lap quicker around (I think- magazine not to hand) Fiorano than Villeneuve in T5 F1 car.If Gilles had been stuck in third gear and it was wet - well maybe but otherwise not in a million years.F40 weighs - what - 1100kg, T5 about half that.F40 has 470 odd bhp, T5 about 520?T5 has downforce- not much by standard of its peers - but doubt if F40 has any meaningful aero grip.So where did this daft story come from ? And why do magazines print such obvious nonsense?Actually , will settle for answer to question 1....

[Pils1989]

What I know is that Blaton's (or Beurlys) F40 LM wasn't that much faster than his 348TBF at Spa. Keep in mind I was told that when I was... 12? Not sure about that statement.

[nmansellfan]

I didn't think it was plausible either, but i read the same kind of quote in a car magazine many years ago. Autosport tested the F40 on 07/07/88 but it doesn't mention the quote. They did touch 202.6mph (even Villeneuve would'nt have been able to do that in the T5, though neither machine would get near that at Fiorano), and recorded 0-125mph in 12 seconds dead. Weight of the F40 was given as 21.65cwt (virtually what you thought John - 1100kg).

Edit - after a bit of searching, the official best lap time for the F40 at Fiorano is 1.29.60. the current F1 lap record at Fiorano (latest i can find) is 55.599, Schumacher in the F2004. The oldest F1 lap record i can find is 1.00.310, by Alesi in 1994, in the 412T1. I would guess the 312 T5 could do around 1.10 - 1.14? Thats still faster than the best road car time of 1.18 (Ferrari FXX, not strictly a road car...).

[Ross Stonefeld]

A Villeneuve era laprecord would have been about 70 seconds depending on what year it was. By the way Fiorano has had a layout changes since the start of the Schumacher era, so it may not even be the same track.

[JB Miltonian]

Performance Car magazine tested the F40 vs the 643 Formula One car vs the 348 at Mugello in 1992. The lap times:

348: 2 min 23.0 sec, 82.02 mph
F40: 2 min 9.8 sec, 90.41 mph
F1: 1 min 25.5 sec, 137.2 mph

Hmmm, 44 seconds quicker in one lap for the F1 car. I don't think it's likely that the F40 could compete with the F1 car on any course. Yes, I'm aware that the 312T5 and the 643 are not the same car, it's just an example.

[Pils1989]

Indeed I might need to precise, the 348TBF is not a TB, it's the one-off 348 modded into a race car by the Garage Francorchamps.

[Paolo]

On Monza Junior circuit , back in 1992, the F40 was slower than the 1000cc Formula Juniors...

[nmansellfan]

Just finished reading "1982" by Christopher Hilton, in the chapter about the Italian GP that year it says Mario Andretti clocked a best time of 1m07 in the 126C2 at Fiorano over a days testing. The book goes on to say the time was quite good considering the conditions.

Based on that time, something like a '66 312 or '65 1512 would probably be able to match the F40's time (Fiorano was only built around 1974 anyway?).

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by nmansellfan
....considering the conditions....

You mean that Mario came straight from a transatlantic flight, via the Cavallino restaurant for a plate of pasta and broke the lap record?

Originally posted by nmansellfan
(Fiorano was only built around 1974 anyway?).

1972 ;-)

P.s. this is not a Cavallino Restaurant add, but please try their lasagne when you can...

[Peter Morley]

Decembers Evo magazine gave the following official Firoano lap times:

F2004 (2004) - 55.999
F2007 (2007) - 58.360
F310B (1997) - 59.5
412T1 (1994) - 1.00.31
F1-89 (1989) - 1.02.6
126C2 (1982) - 1.07.1
312 B3-74 (1973) - 1.11.95
FXX (2005) - 1.18
430 Scuderia (2007) - 1.25
Enzo (2002) - 1.25
360 Challenge (2003) - 1.26.5
599 GTB Fiorano (2006) - 1.26.5
F430 (2005) - 1.27
F50 (1996) - 1.29
F40 (1987) - 1.30

F40 lap times being similar to a Formula Junior isn't that surprising (historic junior lap times aren't that different to historic 1½ liter F1 lap times).

[GPLEagle]

I remember reading about a test between F1, F40 and 348(I think) - can't remember the track, but the times were around 2:30 for te 348, 2:15 for the F40 and 1:30 for the F1 (1/3 quicker than the F40). It also included some quotes from (again, from memory) Berger, stating that the F40 could only do a few laps at that speed before the brakes started to fade.
Can't recall date/magazine (possibly Auto Motor und Sport, AutoHebdo or Autosport).

[fines]

Originally posted by GPLEagle
I remember reading about a test between F1, F40 and 348(I think) - can't remember the track, but the times were around 2:30 for te 348, 2:15 for the F40 and 1:30 for the F1 (1/3 quicker than the F40). It also included some quotes from (again, from memory) Berger, stating that the F40 could only do a few laps at that speed before the brakes started to fade.
Can't recall date/magazine (possibly Auto Motor und Sport, AutoHebdo or Autosport).

You probably read it here, post 5:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=94422

;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

For a moment there I forgot the 310B was an F1 car and wondered how on earth it could be so fast.

[GPLEagle]

Originally posted by fines

You probably read it here, post 5:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=94422

;)

It does look like it, except that it was definately in a different magazine... Might have been the same test though!!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
A Villeneuve era laprecord would have been about 70 seconds depending on what year it was. By the way Fiorano has had a layout changes since the start of the Schumacher era, so it may not even be the same track.

Yes, it's amazing how even the Ferrari dogs usually set a new lap record at Fiorano on their first day out. The circuit must've been all of about 250m long when the F92AT came out, for example ;)

[stuartbrs]

I would also guess it would depend on what engines or parts Ferrari chose to run in the car at Fiorano... even a dog can run quicker if its not quite to regulations...

[jcbc3]

OT

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos

...
P.s. this is not a Cavallino Restaurant add, but please try their lasagne when you can...

... as long as you don't expect what normal restaurants would call good service....

1)
We were in there early(ish) and they hadn't finished setting tables (which was a big no-no where I was employed). But if you are open for business you should also be able to accommodate your patrons.

2)
When we asked the waiter to close the inner double door to the entrance, as it is supposed to be, because it raised a storm when the outer door was opened, the answer was no, because they were carting some stuff in. We were then surprised that we, after that, had to ask them to offer us another table (of which there were many free) further into the restaurant.

3)
Considering the lack of guests at the time the food took an inordinately time to arrive. So much so, that we decided to skip dessert there and go to Restaurant Carisma instead. Working up an appetite for the Tiramisu and coffe and Brandy (and as an aside Rory Byrne was there the same night. No, I didn't ask him for an autograph or bugger him otherwise).

[nmansellfan]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


You mean that Mario came straight from a transatlantic flight, via the Cavallino restaurant for a plate of pasta and broke the lap record?

Most likely...;) The book also says he apparently gave a press conference that lasted 1 1/2 hours after he stepped off the plane (with his Ferrari hat on that drove the waiting tifosi at the airport wild).

Subliminal Cavallino restaurant advertising noted, Arjan!

[Bryce Armstrong]

http://www.fastestla...om/track26.html

[simonlewisbooks]

This reminds me of a news story in 1985/6 that the Group B cars were lapping Estoril "faster than the F1 cars managed at last years Portugese GP"
I never believed this for a moment given this was at the height of the turbo era and how ever many horses an Audi Sport Quiattro generated it was insubstantial compared to a Brabham-BMW or a McLaren-TAG, which were also half the weight.
There were never any times to back this claim up so I wonder where on earth this came from ? Probably direct from a restaurant table after a few to many glasses I imagine !

I do recall an Audi advert some years ago claiming one of it's standard models would lap Aintree faster than Jack Brabham's Cooper had done in 1959. But then we are talking several decades of technological advancement at work!

[jm1]

I am new to the Autosport forum. I have been for a time over on the McLaren string wondering how these lads who write the books know more about my Can-Am car than I do, Been interesting, however.

But in keeping with that, I checked into this forum and wondered if I could shed any light here.

I purchased (new) a F-40 Corsa built in 1992 from the factory (number 12 of 19) and am quite familiar with the car(s). I note a lot of interest in lap times and comparatives.

While the Corsa versions were not streetable, as they were a good deal lighter and substantially more powerful than the street drivable versions, and far too low. Additionally, they were equipped with an onboard chip programable computer with which either race or qualifying HP settings could be obtained from the turbos.

Ground clearance was very low, and adjustable along with the rear wing. That gave the cars real downforce. The wheel wells were much broader to accommodate larger and wider slicks and all in all made the cars a nicely balanced package when set up correctly. Great fun to drive and reasonably forgiving.

jm1

Edited by jm1, 11 June 2010 - 09:12.

[Lee Nicolle]

This reminds me of a news story in 1985/6 that the Group B cars were lapping Estoril "faster than the F1 cars managed at last years Portugese GP"
I never believed this for a moment given this was at the height of the turbo era and how ever many horses an Audi Sport Quiattro generated it was insubstantial compared to a Brabham-BMW or a McLaren-TAG, which were also half the weight.
There were never any times to back this claim up so I wonder where on earth this came from ? Probably direct from a restaurant table after a few to many glasses I imagine !

I do recall an Audi advert some years ago claiming one of it's standard models would lap Aintree faster than Jack Brabham's Cooper had done in 1959. But then we are talking several decades of technological advancement at work!

Isnt Aintree a horse track? If so the Audi may be faster than Jack, on a grass track. Though Jack grew up on dirt ovals so maybe not.

[arttidesco]

Aintree

[Gregor Marshall]

Isnt Aintree a horse track? If so the Audi may be faster than Jack, on a grass track. Though Jack grew up on dirt ovals so maybe not.

Donington could be next Lee!!