41 replies to this topic

[Jacquesback]

One of, if not the most exciting pilots to ever take the wheel of an F1 car passed on this day 25 years ago in Imola. I still miss you Gilles and often view some of the amazing footage still available. Gilles' legend is no myth, sliding ground effect cars, banging wheels with Arnoux and going 9 seconds faster than anyone else in the wet practice in the US. He put **** Ferraris places they had no place belonging. In an instance of Pironi's impetulance Enzo didn't stand up for his star driver who had sacrificed so much for Ferrari, and the resultant anger forced Gilles to take risks he may not of had to. F1 lost so much that day.

RIP Gilles.

[John B]

It was a day I remember too well as a kid, and sadly ironic that the crash occured just as Ferrari was rounding the turbo into a championship caliber car. I guess the legacy of his and the other 1982 crashes were the rapidly adopted new regs for 1983 and beyond that launched a much safer era of GP racing. In addition to Monaco and Spain 1981 other efforts in the nasty Ferrari included 4th at Zolder with a screwed up active suspension, 3rd in the rain at Montreal with the smashed front wing in front of the cockpit, etc.

[Limits]

25 years. I must be getting old... Gilles is one of my all time favourites and I don't know a single person that is interested in motorsport have anything bad to say about him. But I can not say I was really surprised when he died, I always thought he took too big risks.

I guess that if there is a heaven, he is very happy that Jacques won the championship that he wanted so much.

[Gilles4Ever]

A sad day indeed.

I strongly recommend that those who have not yet read last week's journal to do so. Some very good first hand accounts about Gilles that are factual not myth that has built up over the years. I especially recommend listening to the interview Nigel Roebuck did with Gilles, its a gem.

[F1 Tor.]

I love the story when Gilles was driving his Ferrari road car and offered Prof. Sid Watkins a ride somewhere. Gilles wife also came along for the ride and she sat in the back and when Prof. Watkins turned around to ask her something she was flat on the floor, which was her usual driving position when riding with Gilles. Basically he weaved in and out of traffic and nearly gave the prof. a heart attack. Gotta love it. Should be an interesting Montreal GP this year. Hopefully they'll do some kind of ceremony.

[angst]

The ultimate Grand Prix driver post-war as far as I'm concerned. As in, what a Grand Prix driver ought to be. A hard edged racer with a will to win, but with a romantic outlook upon his profession. Gilles and Nuvolari, two of a kind.

[F1 Tor.]

I've been reading numerous articles about Gilles as people from all over the racing community share their thoughts and what they remember about him. One thing that's kept popping up is the word 'trust' and many drivers noted how they absolutely trusted Gilles when they were in the heat of battle. Particularly, Rene Arnoux stated how he basically couldn't have had their classic last lap duel with any other driver. He knew Gilles was super fast but he trusted him so much and knew he wouldn't do anything stupid. Interesting.

[vsubravet]

This tells us a lot about his personality (Taken from 'A Rage to Win' by Nigel Roebuck" in the latest Autosport Journal)

"How the hell," he said to me once, "can you drive a race car, fight with people - and think all the time about points for a bloody championship? How can you settle for a 'safe' third place or something, because it's four points...? Jesus, people like that should be accountants, not racing drivers..."

I've been watching F1 from 1999 and I lay no claim to having seen GV in action but reading about him, I know I'd have been his greatest fan. Such a wonderful racer and a true gentleman.

[Pingguest]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
A sad day indeed.

I strongly recommend that those who have not yet read last week's journal to do so. Some very good first hand accounts about Gilles that are factual not myth that has built up over the years. I especially recommend listening to the interview Nigel Roebuck did with Gilles, its a gem.

Do you have any link to that interview?

[Gilles4Ever]

Originally posted by Pingguest


Do you have any link to that interview?

its all here
http://www.autosport.com/journal/

"I never think I can hurt myself," Gilles Villeneuve tells Nigel Roebuck at Zolder on May 20th 1978, four years before the Canadian would lose his life at that very same track. This is a rare opportunity to listen to Gilles talk about his love for speed, his entry into F1 with McLaren, his relationship with Ferrari - and his fearless approach to racing


imo just this one issue of the journal is worth a years subscription to autosport.com

[carbonfibre]

Definitely yes! Great journal.

I ofcourse never saw Gilles driving with my own eyes but after reading lots of stuff about him and seeing video's etc and hearing stories from people who actually saw him race i know he was one of the greatest out there.

[Henri Greuter]

Within the thread about Gilles in the Nostalgia Forum I said I didn't like May as much as I did before 1982,
Because ever since 1982, May brings yet another anniversary of May 8.

Stat's and results tell otherwise but for me, Gilles wast the best driver I ever rooted for.
He may lack the results like scored by other idolized drivers. But unlike some other idolized drivers, Gilles had no negative, dark, questionalble side which affected his driving and reputation. A sportsman and man of honor and pride if there ever was one.
It's because of having had Gilles as my favourite that I didn't need other favorites anymore and won't need so anymore either.

Salut Gilles, not always on my mind but never to be forgotten.


Henri

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter
Within the thread about Gilles in the Nostalgia Forum I said I didn't like May as much as I did before 1982,
Because ever since 1982, May brings yet another anniversary of May 8.

Stat's and results tell otherwise but for me, Gilles wast the best driver I ever rooted for.
He may lack the results like scored by other idolized drivers. But unlike some other idolized drivers, Gilles had no negative, dark, questionalble side which affected his driving and reputation. A sportsman and man of honor and pride if there ever was one.
It's because of having had Gilles as my favourite that I didn't need other favorites anymore and won't need so anymore either.

Salut Gilles, not always on my mind but never to be forgotten.


Henri

I couldn;t add to that if I tried. Well said.

[911]

I first saw Gilles race at the 1978 US GP (Long Beach). I was standing by the fence where the hairpin was and I kept thinking to myself, "WHO is this guy?" I had never heard of him, yet here he was leading the race. Amazing, amazing driver. Thanks for the memories, Gilles.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Salut Gilles!

Originally posted by Jacquesback
One of, if not the most exciting pilots to ever take the wheel of an F1 car passed on this day 25 years ago in Imola.

That was Senna.

[Jacquesback]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
That was Senna.

Yes of course it was Zolder and not Imola.

[DSP]

Gilles should be an example for all.

He has proved that one can be the fastest and still be fair thowards the others.

He has shown us that you can be completely comitted to one goal (winning) but still be a true gentleman both in and out of the track.

I never admired anyone (be it in business, sports, arts, whatever... ) just for what he achieves. For me, the important is to evaluate how it is achieved.

More than a great racer, a great man.

Salut, Gilles ! .

P.S.: This may have been discussed on previous threads but i always wondered if Pironi ever explained himself (wether at that time, or years later) about the reasons for not keeping his word regarding the agreement he and Gilles had. Anyone can provide me some "light" on this ? Thanks.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by DSP




P.S.: This may have been discussed on previous threads but i always wondered if Pironi ever explained himself (wether at that time, or years later) about the reasons for not keeping his word regarding the agreement he and Gilles had. Anyone can provide me some "light" on this ? Thanks.

I don't know if Pironi ever went as far as 'explaining' himself, but it was his belief, outwardly, that he had done no wrong.

There was no 'word', as such, but Villeneuve believed in an unwritten rule that stated the driver ahead when the leader retired, as in the case of Imola 82, was the given winner. There is some conjecture as to whether the 'rule' came into effect when the 'slow' sign was given from the pits - at which point many sources indicate Pironi was, actually, in front - or whether the point in question was at the moment the leader was no longer there. Either way, Gilles (perhaps foolishly in a way) considered thevoctory his, and that Pironi was simply playing to the crowds from there-on in.

Whatever the truth - and we will likely never know - Pironi knew that he would psyche Gilles big style by doing what he did, and he did; Gilles believe he had been duped, and that was enough for him.

[Levike]

I've never seen him alive, but what i 've seen from him from footages and from written media, he was a very great man and a very great driver. Rest in Peace. I hope that He, Peterson, Senna and Clark are racing somwhere wherever they are and having great fun.


Levente

[nordschleife]

It's appropriate that Gilles Villeneuve is being remembered at this time in various media with a retelling of how events at Imola influenced his state of mind thereafter. Many reports today don't explain fully all of the elements of the story however. Here's what is often overlooked:

The foremost reason that the Ferrari drivers were instructed to slow at Imola in 82 was that they were certain to run out of fuel if they didn't. This was known to them prior to the race. When it became their race to lose the highest priority of Ferrari would have been avoiding the unnecessary humiliation of running out of fuel in front of the tifosi. F1 is constantly belittled with charges of "race-killing team orders" but these circumstances required it. Gilles assumed that Pironi's passing moves were strictly to entertain the crowd.

With the 1979 title not yet out of his grasp at Monza Gilles shadowed but didn't push his points-leading teammate, Jody Scheckter, because that suited Ferrari's interests. The nightmare of having teammates take points off each other until a competitor slips past both to win the title has occurred more than a few times. With every reason to have confidence in his future Gilles believed that he would soon be the one to benefit from this discipline. For Pironi to shamelessly rob Villeneuve at Imola was disgusting. For Ferrari to fail to pronounce it to be so was revolting in that it was disloyal to Villeneuve, the embodiment of honourable loyalty. Also, consider this: Gilles strove to be the fastest, always, everywhere. To know in himself that he was the fastest and to be seen and understood to be so by his peers and his audience. Ferrari declined to specify that he was just that in spite of the finishing order at Imola. So it was left to him to show the world what the pecking order really was at the next opportunity. Previously he'd danced on the ragged edge with no net. Now his intensity was absolute.

In 1982 the teams with turbocharged engines built and boost-limited them to last a race distance of about 200 miles. To qualify they used engines built and barely boost-limited to last one flat-out lap using over 1000 bhp (way over). That means that the tires you qualify on can be so soft that they, too, are only good for one really good lap. Talk about stand and deliver! But the potential, nay, certainty of disaster is undeniable.

In the 1982 Autocourse account of the Belgian GP there's a extreme close-up picture shot over Gilles' shoulder showing his gloved hand returning the printout slip listing the qualifiers and their times. As Pironi's faster time must be among them, to me the shot compels the viewer to imagine Villeneuve's state of mind and choose a descriptor for the manner in which the challenge is being received. Disdainfully, I'd say.
But, all in all, would Gilles now say, 'Tragically"? Somehow, I doubt it.

[JacnGille]

I got to see Gilles in both Atlantics and F1. I was there in the rain at the Glen when he did the unbelievable lap. I remember seein the picture in the local paper of his crash. A sad day indeed.
May you never, ever be forgotten.

[bira]

Originally posted by DSP
P.S.: This may have been discussed on previous threads but i always wondered if Pironi ever explained himself (wether at that time, or years later) about the reasons for not keeping his word regarding the agreement he and Gilles had. Anyone can provide me some "light" on this ? Thanks.

Tony Dodgins interviewed Pironi on this subject in 1986. You can read it here: http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/843

[Rexx Havoc]

at the time I had no idea what I witnessed that cold wet october day
it has infected me for life...

Salut Gilles

[former champ]

along with Ayrton Senna, the greatest racer I have ever seen. Watching Gilles, it was just different back then and he was the perfect racing driver, lived for every lap and loved to thrill the crowds. One of a kind and never forgotten.

[Paul Prost]

The more I read about him, the more I admire him.

Compulsory reading for every fan of F1, especially those who have grown up in the modern-day era of 'anything goes' on the track.

[DLaw]

Tony Dodgins interviewed Pironi on this subject in 1986. You can read it here: http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/843



Well, I think Pironi was full of it......

It still pissed me off, after all these years

[pacwest]

For me his personality was all that is "Canadian".

For me his driving talent has never seen an equal. Others have managed their talent better, others have used their "accountant" ways to get ahead. Others have simply cheated or been utterly ruthless.

He had the most raw, pure talent I've ever seen. And I saw this at a young age. When I was a boy I would watch hovkey on the small TV sets we had at the time and I could tell when Guy LaFleur had the puck. Graceful skater he was. You could be in a bar, tiny tiny TV up in the corner and you'd know it was Guy. Gilles fit that mold.

Name one driver that you can see driving an unliveried car for 3 seconds and recognize his style. I can name only one.

Senna mastered his inner rage. Schumacher mastered his cunning and his teamwork. Prost mastered his craft. Jacques managed his inherited raw talent for a few brief moments.

Gilles mastered speed and speed alone.

[Zmeej]

Salut Gilles

Great thread.

Thanks for the story, nordschliefe.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by nordschleife

The foremost reason that the Ferrari drivers were instructed to slow at Imola in 82 was that they were certain to run out of fuel if they didn't.

Thats certainly interesting, but it doesn't bear up to the facts from some angles: they didn't slow, after all, as Pironi chose to continue at unabated speed.

In 1982 the teams with turbocharged engines built and boost-limited them to last a race distance of about 200 miles. To qualify they used engines built and barely boost-limited to last one flat-out lap using over 1000 bhp (way over). That means that the tires you qualify on can be so soft that they, too, are only good for one really good lap.

I don't think the concept of 'qualifying engines' came into being until BMW got fully into their stride a year later, and 1000bhp is certainly an optimistic estimate for 1982, by any means. From what I know, the first 1000bhp plus was not reached, in qualifying trim, until late 1983. Qualifying tyres had been around from well before 1982, too.

Gilles death is often referred to as a direct by-product of the qualifying system of those days, but that forgets that, had he, or Mass, moved in the opposite way to the other, there would have been no accident: it was simply a case of wrong place, wrong time. Had this been before the Imola race Gilles would still have been on the limit, right on the edge, as to abort a lap was to lose a chance in those days.

But, all in all, would Gilles now say, 'Tragically"? Somehow, I doubt it.

I agree.

[Gilles4Ever]

Originally posted by Lifew12


Thats certainly interesting, but it doesn't bear up to the facts from some angles: they didn't slow, after all, as Pironi chose to continue at unabated speed.

Did you read the Tony Dodgins interviewwith Pironi on this subject in 1986? http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/843

The slow signs came out partly because, in the turbo era, fuel consumption was critical and the team was worried about running out. Villeneuve had been critical of Pironi for overtaking him and upping the pace, the French-Canadian slowing it down every time he went back past his teammate.

"Gilles overtook me after the 'slow' sign," Pironi went on, "and by then we knew we had a lot of fuel left because of the way we drove the first half of the race.

[vsubravet]

Originally posted by DSP
Gilles should be an example for all.

He has proved that one can be the fastest and still be fair thowards the others.

He has shown us that you can be completely comitted to one goal (winning) but still be a true gentleman both in and out of the track.

I never admired anyone (be it in business, sports, arts, whatever... ) just for what he achieves. For me, the important is to evaluate how it is achieved.

More than a great racer, a great man.

Salut, Gilles ! .

P.S.: This may have been discussed on previous threads but i always wondered if Pironi ever explained himself (wether at that time, or years later) about the reasons for not keeping his word regarding the agreement he and Gilles had. Anyone can provide me some "light" on this ? Thanks.

Couldn't have said it better. As someone mentioned, the more I read about him the more my admiration and respect grows for him. IF. If only he had lived through that day, I'm positive that he could have enthralled the F1 world like no one else.
By the way, many thanks for autosport.com to come out with an outstanding issue commemorating Gilles.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Did you read the Tony Dodgins interviewwith Pironi on this subject in 1986? http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/843

The slow signs came out partly because, in the turbo era, fuel consumption was critical and the team was worried about running out. Villeneuve had been critical of Pironi for overtaking him and upping the pace, the French-Canadian slowing it down every time he went back past his teammate.

"Gilles overtook me after the 'slow' sign," Pironi went on, "and by then we knew we had a lot of fuel left because of the way we drove the first half of the race.

I did read it, yes, and I also remember the Imola race as clear as day, hence my words above.

Fuel consumption was a worry for Ferrari at Imola in 1982,as it was for Renault, yet for over 40 laps (if I remember rightly) Rene Arnoux and the two Ferrari's were at it hammer and tongs, at full speed, in a three way fight for the lead - Villeneuve, indeed, headed the field for a handful of laps. The race continued at full racing speed for the majority of laps, and neither car ran out, despite a frantic pace; to state that they were almost certain to run out of fuel was something that I thought a little incorrect in the circumstances.

I;m not sure what Pironi meant by 'the way we drove the first half of the race' as every account of the time will tell you it was a no holds barred all out high speed scrap; there was certainly no fuel saving involved. A lot of confusion has diluted the story in the last quarter of a century - as it did at the time, with Marco Piccini insisting that Pironi did nothing wrong and Enzo Ferrari publicly stating the Frenchman had misunderstood the pit signals - and I can't take what Pironi says in that interview as gospel.

Whichever way one looks at it the situation uis the same - Gilles believed he had been duped, end of story.

Incidentally no car ran out of fuel that race, and very few did anywhere in 1982.

[DSP]

Originally posted by bira


Tony Dodgins interviewed Pironi on this subject in 1986. You can read it here: http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/843

Thanks, Bira.

[DSP]

Check the Imola'82 "Race History Chart" at FORIX:

http://forix.autospo...&r=19820004&c=7

We can see that, after Arnoux retired, the pace of the 2 Ferraris was slow whenever Gilles was in front, and was very fast when Pironi was ahead, wich proves Gilles tried to slow the pace, following the team instructions and Pironi did not...

[vsubravet]

One wonders what would Gilles have done if he were racing in F1 with the current set of rules and regulations - where preserving engines and settling for 2nd place with 8 points are emphasised; I'd wager he'd have said, "Sod it! I'm not going to race this namby-pamby way" and he'd have hung his boots.

[maddindian]

The Italian GP (where GV felt betrayed by Pironi) was a focalpoint of the FISA/FOCA battle wasn't it? One group of teams had been boycotted, so only a few teams (Ferrari, McLaren, etc...) were racing. Those teams made a deal with each other to 'play' around for the amusement of the fans initially in the race, and at the end, it would be race. And between Ferrari themselves, they had an agreement that who ever was leading would keep it.

[bira]

Originally posted by maddindian
The Italian GP (where GV felt betrayed by Pironi) was a focalpoint of the FISA/FOCA battle wasn't it? One group of teams had been boycotted, so only a few teams (Ferrari, McLaren, etc...) were racing. Those teams made a deal with each other to 'play' around for the amusement of the fans initially in the race, and at the end, it would be race. And between Ferrari themselves, they had an agreement that who ever was leading would keep it.

http://atlasf1.autos...t06/mirror.html

You won't find a better account of the events than that one.

(In fact, that whole series of articles on the 1982 season is one of the best things I've ever read on F1 history: part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6.

Or, also from the same author, you can read the series of articles about The FIASCO War)

[DSP]

Originally posted by bira


http://atlasf1.autos...t06/mirror.html

You won't find a better account of the events than that one....

Indeed. Thanks, again.

[512 TR]

Gilles was special for so many different reasons. But the one thing that I will always remember him by was that he was a true tifosi. A true Ferrari fan and a he shared the same dreams and hopes that we all do, for Ferrari to do well and win championships.

Gilles you'll never be forgotten. Your passion for the il cavallino rampante was second none.

Rest in peace, Gilles. Rest in peace!

[Victor]

I saw Stewart, Ickx, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna and Schumacher racing.
None of them compares to the great Gilles. His driving was a pleasure to the eye, his commitment unbelievable, his passion something you could feel.
And he was also a nice chap and a man of honour.
I will never forget him.
Thanks Gilles and I hope you are having fun racing Nuvolari in heaven.

[Lazarus II]

I remember watching him in Atlantics and thinking he was something very special. He was indeed.

Don Capps, I hope it's OK to quote your last paragraph as it sums up my feeling about Gilles as well. And to Gilles, thanks for the memories; the rest pale in comparison.

For some of us, racing was never quite the same again. While Gilles didn't have the numbers of many others and some considered his style a conspicuous lack thereof, he almost made me imagine what it would have been like if Tazio Nuvolari had raced in the modern era. Tough as nails, foot to the floor, tail hung out through the corners, a great sportsman, a cheerful competitor, and a Racer. Perhaps he was already obsolete. But, to those of us who were fortunate enough to see him in action, he was what we always imagined a Racer should be. He was fair and square and fun to watch. We already knew that we would never see his likes ever again. I always imagined that only Bernd Rosemayer, Tazio Nuvolari, and Gilles could wring the maximum out of an Auto Union type C or D... and that is exactly what he is doing.

Rest in Peace, Gilles... even after all these years you are missed.

[rosemeyer]