45 replies to this topic

[ferrarifanatic]

So I have finished my under graduation in Aerospace Engineering from a reputed University in India. I'd like a career in Ferrari or for that matter any other rival team. What is the process of applying.

Don't tell me to apply online via their website. Nobody even replies/acknowledges that they have even received my application.. any pointers?

[robnyc]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic
So I have finished my under graduation in Aerospace Engineering from a reputed University in India. I'd like a career in Ferrari or for that matter any other rival team. What is the process of applying.

Don't tell me to apply online via their website. Nobody even replies/acknowledges that they have even received my application.. any pointers?

I heard they are on strike brother..
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=31319

It may turn out to be not a very good place to be right now.

[bira]

http://www.autosport...pointments.html

[kar]

Vehicle analysts jobs at Honda They need at least 8 of them given their current woes

[robnyc]

Originally posted by kar
Vehicle analysts jobs at Honda They need at least 8 of them given their current woes

They need to fill that role ASAP, otherwise the current designs (new wing) by Yasuhiro Wada's grandkids will continue to make their way into production.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Check out the private firms too like Lola, Dallara, Panoz, Zytek etc.

[lattitude]

I do not have racing or technical skills....

I wonder if Ferrari will employ me to clean their toilets? I don't mind doing that.

[Fatgadget]

Just write the biggest load of creative bullshit you can master on your CV.That usually gets prospective employers interested ! ....Something along the lines this resourceful student did during his exams!

[AFCA]

Originally posted by Fatgadget
....Something along the lines this resourceful student did during his exams!

I love that kind of thing !

[Paul Prost]

Williams are currently accepting speculative CVs from applicants.

I'd suggest get a job first at an aerospace company first and develop your skills further. Additional study wouldn't hurt, it is very difficult to get an F1 job in Aero these days without any post-grad degree, a Masters is often considered the bare minimum.

[Carsten]

Originally posted by lattitude
I do not have racing or technical skills....

I wonder if Ferrari will employ me to clean their toilets? I don't mind doing that.

Try getting a job making the tea instead - less getting your hands dirty and you have a chance of being mentioned in the PC (probably not by Kimi, but)

[CWeil]

You might consider going back and getting your master's degree. F1 teams are not usually interested in freshly graduated undergrads with no prior working experience. You'd be better off talking to smaller teams in other categories to get a few years experience or going back for further education.

[fastlegs]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic
So I have finished my under graduation in Aerospace Engineering from a reputed University in India. I'd like a career in Ferrari or for that matter any other rival team. What is the process of applying.

Don't tell me to apply online via their website. Nobody even replies/acknowledges that they have even received my application.. any pointers?

If you have already sent your resume via their website ( http://www.ferrariwo...ld/fw/index.jsp ) and had no success, try contacting their media center to see if they can help you.

FERRARI WEST-EUROPE
49 Avenue George Pompidou
92 593 Levallois-Perret
France
Tél : + 33 (0)1 49 64 54 54
Fax : + 33 (0)1 49 64 54 66

The only other alternative is to apply in person at the Management Headquarters for Ferrari in Maranello, Italy.

Good luck.

[Porsche996]

Originally posted by CWeil
You might consider going back and getting your master's degree. F1 teams are not usually interested in freshly graduated undergrads with no prior working experience. You'd be better off talking to smaller teams in other categories to get a few years experience or going back for further education.

Well, Ferrari took on a certain Mr Brawn despite the fact that he never even attended uni for the basic undergrad degree.

[metz]

Originally posted by lattitude
I wonder if Ferrari will employ me to clean their toilets? I don't mind doing that.

If you want to get a few years experience before you apply at Ferrari, we may be able to help you out...;)

[Monstrobolaxa]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic
So I have finished my under graduation in Aerospace Engineering from a reputed University in India. I'd like a career in Ferrari or for that matter any other rival team. What is the process of applying.

Don't tell me to apply online via their website. Nobody even replies/acknowledges that they have even received my application.. any pointers?

Don't expect to get a job...I talked with Dino Toso and Adrian Newey a few months ago and both of them besides giving me the thumbs up with my experience...both of them recomended me to take a Msc...or even a Phd. Adrian mentioned that in the near futur they'll start looking at Phds because the market is getting very competitive to work in F1.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Originally posted by Porsche996


Well, Ferrari took on a certain Mr Brawn despite the fact that he never even attended uni for the basic undergrad degree.

What's your point? Ross had to work his way up from the very lowest rung in the Formula One ladder. By the time he was hired by Ferrari, he'd already won a title as a technical director.

If you don't want to do that, you need graduate schooling.

[dgsg]

Originally posted by lattitude
I do not have racing or technical skills....

I wonder if Ferrari will employ me to clean their toilets? I don't mind doing that.

You might want to rethink your career choice.

http://www.cnn.com/2...d.ap/index.html

[Porsche996]

Originally posted by Chubby_Deuce


What's your point? Ross had to work his way up from the very lowest rung in the Formula One ladder. By the time he was hired by Ferrari, he'd already won a title as a technical director.

If you don't want to do that, you need graduate schooling.

My point is that rather than wasting time and money on pointless post grad qualifications, what employers, (and F1 is no different here), value far more is experience.

Given the choice between someone with a masters and zero experience, or someone with a degree plus experience in say aerospace or F3, the experience will always win.

At the end of the day, actually doing something is far more important to an employer than another piece of paper.

[Dudley]

No it really won't. I doubt my company is alone in refusing the hire anyone without a vaguely related degree.

Either way, the OP will NOT get straight into F1 any more than a driver would get hired into F1 without doing a day of karting.

Start at the bottom.

[Porsche996]

Originally posted by Dudley
No it really won't. I doubt my company is alone in refusing the hire anyone without a vaguely related degree.

Either way, the OP will NOT get straight into F1 any more than a driver would get hired into F1 without doing a day of karting.

Start at the bottom.

I work as an IT Security consultant. I started a degree in Maths and computer science, but dropped out in the first year to actually work. My friends continued to complete their degree, and 1 went on to do a masters in artificial intelligence.

2 years after graduation, I was earning 3 times more than anyone I knew who gained their degree, (mostly with firsts), and my friend who did the masters was still unemployed, (despite gaining an award for his dissertation).

Now, 10 years after graduation, I am still earning 3 times more than anyone I knew who gained a degree, and this includes the guy who got the masters. Whilst I was moving up the ladder, they were wasting time learning stuff that they all agree, was completely worthless in the real world.

A university degree will get you your first job, after that it is pretty much worthless.

[Tenmantaylor]

Look in the back of Autosport

Find the names of HR people and heads of department and write letters to them explaining why they should employ you.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Thing is that F1 is a more competitive field than it was in the 80's when guys like Brawn were working their way up, despite not having the best education. Nowadays you still have to work your way up, but the guys towards the bottom of the totem pole are massively educated as well.

[CWeil]

Sorry Porsche996, that may work in some fields, especially those where the need for people outweighs the supply (IT sector), but here there are far more people than there is demand. Experience counts for a lot in certain positions, like race and strategy engineers, etc, but for a guy who's probably going to end up in either composites or aerodynamics, the foundation of a full education is going to be much more useful down the road than a few years experience.

There are a lot of depth in engineering that simply aren't touched upon until graduate and doctorate wokr, and the knowledge that that education provides will bear much more fruit than a basic undergraduate degree and willingness to learn. Besides, as a graduate and docatoral candidate you'll do so much research that you could easily consider that "experience" in some form or another. It is very false to say that getting their PhD is not doing something or just "another piece of paper"- sounds like a bit of a vendetta against it, no?

I appreciate your "if I did, you can do it too", but I think it's very disingenuous to the original poster to assume that your method will work in this particular field- it won't. Budgets and demand are such that if they really only want to hire master's and PhD students, they can. If he really wants to work in F1, that's what he needs to do.

[Jacquesback]

Originally posted by Paul Prost
Williams are currently accepting speculative CVs from applicants.

Isn't that how they got Sam Michael?

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic
So I have finished my under graduation in Aerospace Engineering from a reputed University in India.

Reputed University in India? IIT?
Also, i think your diploma needs to be certified to Italian or EU acceptance.
Just a formality.

[Jackman]

Originally posted by Jacquesback
Isn't that how they got Sam Michael?

Sam got his original F1 job through working in Australian racing with people who knew Peter Collins, who then gave him a shot for a few years at Lotus. He moved up through the ranks before jumping to Jordan for a few more years, eventually race engineering Ralf Schumacher, and was then poached by Williams.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Think of this is driver terms. You've just won a national gokarting championship. Why should one of the best teams in F1 hire you over everyone else applying?

[ferrarifanatic]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Think of this is driver terms. You've just won a national gokarting championship. Why should one of the best teams in F1 hire you over everyone else applying?

If you'd apply this logic, Kimi Raikkonen would never have come into Formula One.

All what matters is your superior intelligence, smart ways of learning and applying the things you've learned. Degrees etc dont matter at all if you know how to make a place for yourself in this world. Steve Jobs is a phenomenal example of the same.

[ferrarifanatic]

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


Reputed University in India? IIT?
Also, i think your diploma needs to be certified to Italian or EU acceptance.
Just a formality.

Oh! Wow... you knew about the IITs? Yes, I'm from IIT Bombay.

[ferrarifanatic]

Originally posted by Monstrobolaxa


Don't expect to get a job...I talked with Dino Toso and Adrian Newey a few months ago and both of them besides giving me the thumbs up with my experience...both of them recomended me to take a Msc...or even a Phd. Adrian mentioned that in the near futur they'll start looking at Phds because the market is getting very competitive to work in F1.

Yeah! I do know the importance of a Master/PhD degree. I'll weigh my options and see what I can do..

[Bumper]

I think rule number one would be to be actually based in the country where your team is based. At your (entry) level, teams get so many cv's every week that anything they consider not a straight fit will be ruled out.

Also, it is good to have contacts. It's one thing to write someone a letter, online or in the post. It helps if they can actually put a face or voice to the name. Call their office, speak to someone in HR or someone actually working in one of their engineering departments. Try and attend a GP where maybe you can corner a team member, any member, who can give you advice on the best way to go about things or point you to the best person to address.

I read quite a while ago there is also an engineering college here in England that offers traineeships and has links with various F1 teams. Can't remember the name though.

Good luck

[Owen]

Key attributes for working there:
- Must be willing to cheat
- Must be unsporting and have 'win at all costs' mentality
- Must have close links with FIA

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic


If you'd apply this logic, Kimi Raikkonen would never have come into Formula One.

All what matters is your superior intelligence, smart ways of learning and applying the things you've learned. Degrees etc dont matter at all if you know how to make a place for yourself in this world. Steve Jobs is a phenomenal example of the same.

Kimi went on to international karting success, then national and european single seater success. I will agree with you that he was 'unprepared' for F1, and I said that at the time and say it now. He didn't start at Ferrari though. You don't get to start at the top just because you've finished a degree, its just the beginning.

[schead]

Originally posted by Bumper
I think rule number one would be to be actually based in the country where your team is based. At your (entry) level, teams get so many cv's every week that anything they consider not a straight fit will be ruled out.

Also, it is good to have contacts. It's one thing to write someone a letter, online or in the post. It helps if they can actually put a face or voice to the name. Call their office, speak to someone in HR or someone actually working in one of their engineering departments. Try and attend a GP where maybe you can corner a team member, any member, who can give you advice on the best way to go about things or point you to the best person to address.

I read quite a while ago there is also an engineering college here in England that offers traineeships and has links with various F1 teams. Can't remember the name though.

Good luck

http://www.motorspor...ac.uk/front.htm

Cranfield has links to all the F1 teams. This is also where Pat Symmonds got his Msc.

[Bumper]

Originally posted by schead


http://www.motorspor...ac.uk/front.htm

Cranfield has links to all the F1 teams. This is also where Pat Symmonds got his Msc.

Yeah, that's the one

I'd say that's the place to be, they offer post-grad courses and have so many contacts and alumni in the motorsport world.

[F1Champion]

OT - But does the F1 teams actively accept speculative CV's for the business side of F1 i.e. finance, commercial, sponsorship etc.

[Ross Stonefeld]

What's a speculative CV?

[Oho]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
What's a speculative CV?

Probably an open one. Not targeted at any particular opening but a generic application for any applicable position now or in reasonable future.

[Oho]

Originally posted by Owen
Key attributes for working there:
- Must be willing to cheat
- Must be unsporting and have 'win at all costs' mentality
- Must have close links with FIA

Guess that applies across the board more or less.

That said I am under the impression that the FIA has much keener ear for Ferrari than most if not all other teams, McLaren in particular for the open hostility between Ronzo and Mosley.

[Jackman]

I've seen loads of speculative CVs - they're the ones that mention a number of high paying jobs they've had on the off chance that you believe them.

[Leyser]

Originally posted by ferrarifanatic


Oh! Wow... you knew about the IITs? Yes, I'm from IIT Bombay.

All other Indian Unis are considered to be almost useless, no?

[Paul Prost]

If you want to do Aerodynamics it wouldn't hurt to investigate opportunities at the following universities.

Imperial
Oxford
Cambridge
Southampton
Bristol

These are regarded as the 'top' places to study aerodynamics/fluid dynamics in the UK. Not sure what the equivalent is for continental Europe.

Of course, other top universities in the USA or even India would be considered, but its always a case of demonstrating relevant experience/knowledge in your field.

Coming from outside the EU you are always going to have more experience/qualifications than everyone else, mainly to justify the work permit that you will require.

I wouldn't bother with Ferrari as a graduate.. after all they have every single Italian engineering graduate who will work for them for peanuts. Also, Ferrari rarely advertise in the open press, whereas all the other teams do. I would imagine your best chance is to get a spot with another team. Once you are in the industry it is a VERY small cricle and you'll make new contacts very quickly.

As an example, here was an advertised CFD position at Williams posted last month.

CFD AERODYNAMICIST / JUNIOR CFD AERODYNAMICIST
We are seeking CFD specialists to support our design Aerodynamicists in all aspects of the use and development of CFD techniques for F1 applications. You will be involved in all areas, from mesh design through solution generation to analysis, keeping the company abreast of the latest developments in CFD. You will have a good Mechanical or Aeronautical Engineering degree and postgraduate experience with the use, development and/or implementation of Navier-Stokes codes. Previous F1/motorsport experience is desirable.

As far as CFD goes, you'll never learn enough as an undegraduate or within industry to be able to meaningfully contribute. Although the CFD companies like to say how fantastic their software is, ultimately you need to have some time spent at a research level to fullly understand the foundations of the codes and how to get the most out of them. Just clicking the buttons and using the default settings will most often give you junk.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Porsche996


I work as an IT Security consultant. I started a degree in Maths and computer science, but dropped out in the first year to actually work. My friends continued to complete their degree, and 1 went on to do a masters in artificial intelligence.

2 years after graduation, I was earning 3 times more than anyone I knew who gained their degree, (mostly with firsts), and my friend who did the masters was still unemployed, (despite gaining an award for his dissertation).

Now, 10 years after graduation, I am still earning 3 times more than anyone I knew who gained a degree, and this includes the guy who got the masters. Whilst I was moving up the ladder, they were wasting time learning stuff that they all agree, was completely worthless in the real world.

A university degree will get you your first job, after that it is pretty much worthless.

You got lucky. Very lucky.

Like I said, you wouldn't get in the door where I work and not at a lot of companies.

[kar]

I think the days where you could get away without a degree are largely over.

It's not that having a degree makes you a better person or anything, it's just that the professional market is much more competitive these days. Look at graduate selection programs the major companies offer each year, to just get an interview you need to have massively impressive education credentials.

With countries like India and China turning out engineering and other graduates like potato chips that market is only going to become even more crowded and when you have 1000+ applicants for a position, 100 of them have firsts the rest have a mixture of qualifications and a small percentage have none at all, the pragmatic choice is to just take the 100 firsts and dump the rest.

If they can get that sort of academic achievement odds are they aren't stupid, and while that is unfair on the other candidates there's no real other, efficient, and statistically valid mechanism to cull the applicant list down to a manageable size.

Ross Brawn muses on this actually in the journal this week. It's mandatory reading I think if you're genuinely interested in working in engineering and f1.

[george_boy]

Originally posted by Owen
Key attributes for working there:
- Must be willing to cheat
- Must be unsporting and have 'win at all costs' mentality
- Must have close links with FIA

sounds like mclaren **** personnel... only cynical misantrropic people work at mc