99 replies to this topic

[RDM]

Fisichella tells Renault to focus on 2008

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/58645

I know it can make sense at a certain point in the season to realise you may be better off concentrating on next season, and writing this season off to experience. But after only 3 races into a 19 race season?

Is Fisi talking sense, and that the Renault is such an inherently flawed pile of excrement it's not worth developing, even at this stage of the season, or is he simply trying to cover his own flaws, and in doing so dragging the morale of everybody at the factories down with him?

[former champ]

I like the fact that he's confident of being there next year......

[TT6]

Is Fisi wise to spread his wisdom in public even if he's right and even if the engineers knows that? Just consentrate on next year... but with which drivers... one might ask.

[LostProphet]

That's odd. the first half of the article is Fisi saying 'concentrate on 2008' then the second half is him saying that they've found some things and are getting closer to the answer

I think that putting more resources into the 2008 car is a good idea - like McLaren did last year - but only Renault know how the rest is going to play out.
If there are fundamental flaws with the R27 ala RA107 then concentrating on 2008 is probably the best bet. Renault aren't a team that will spend the resources on developing an R27-B whilst also working on the R28 in my opinion.

However if they are getting closer to the solution to their problem then they should really just marry the discoveries on the R28 project with the R27 development, as was suggested they would do a few weeks ago.

[Nobody]

You can't win wc with a polished turd

[Tuffy]

Before this starts into a anti-Fisi thread again, please remember that Flavio tells some days before more or less the same, that its better to concentrate on 2008 car and see if something of the developments works on the actual car.

[Peri_Piket]

Originally posted by RDM
... pile of excrement ...

More scatology?!

Dirty RDM.

[Clatter]

If they fully understood their problems then they would be able to fix, or at least greatly improve the current car. It seems to me that like Honda they don't have that understanding yet, and therefore I can't see how they can move onto designing the next car.

[RDM]

Originally posted by LostProphet
That's odd. the first half of the article is Fisi saying 'concentrate on 2008' then the second half is him saying that they've found some things and are getting closer to the answer

I think that putting more resources into the 2008 car is a good idea - like McLaren did last year - but only Renault know how the rest is going to play out.
If there are fundamental flaws with the R27 ala RA107 then concentrating on 2008 is probably the best bet. Renault aren't a team that will spend the resources on developing an R27-B whilst also working on the R28 in my opinion.

However if they are getting closer to the solution to their problem then they should really just marry the discoveries on the R28 project with the R27 development, as was suggested they would do a few weeks ago.

I would agree that concentrating a certain amount of resources previously designated to 2007 to the 2008 car is a good idea, and maybe that's what is being suggested. However, clearly there is a BIG part of the 2007 campaign to complete, and, even if you're (evidently) not going to be WDC/WCC contenders, you want to finish as high as possible, for several reasons.

Give up on 2007 now, whilst those around you continue to develop, and how low could Renault finish?

Either way - as somebody already mentioned - it just seems a bad idea for Fisi or Renault to discuss this in public, as it is sure to embolden their close rivals.

[macoran]

Originally posted by Clatter
If they fully understood their problems then they would be able to fix, or at least greatly improve the current car. It seems to me that like Honda they don't have that understanding yet, and therefore I can't see how they can move onto designing the next car.

absolutely, you've got to learn from mistakes first.

[pUs]

Wow. "Next year.." already?

[Owen]

If I was a sponsor of that team and I was told that they're stopping development this year and working on next year, I'm not sure I'd be happy.

[Zmeej]

former champ

I like the fact that he's confident of being there next year...

GF has really gotten the hang of making friends and influencing people.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by former champ
I like the fact that he's confident of being there next year......

On performance so far he has no less reason to be than Kovalainen, does he?

[former champ]

Originally posted by Lifew12


On performance so far he has no less reason to be than Kovalainen, does he?

correct. However I can't see Renault going with the same driver line up and kovalainen has age and plenty of improvement to come. Fisi is coming to the end of his career and I'd say Renault have to somehow snag a top line driver from somewhere, its uninspiring at the moment (fair or not) and I think Flavio knows it.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen
If I was a sponsor of that team and I was told that they're stopping development this year and working on next year, I'm not sure I'd be happy.

A good point! Renault will surely be piss-ing them off!

[clampett]

Originally posted by former champ
I like the fact that he's confident of being there next year......

You guys are so cheap. Fisi can say anything, you find the way to bash him. If he says he wants to fight for the WDC and wins, he is just a turd, and if he rules out this he is the same.

There is nothing wrong with Fisi's comment. It makes perfect sense unfortunately, since the car is flawed in the early season, and they can't afford to develop it with their small budget. What Fisi says is the same as usually other drivers like Trulli, Button, or Jacques Who said if their car went on the wrong direction. Alonso also moaned at the second half of last year, when Renault already started slumping with ban of mass dampers. And they are right.

I wonder what kind of comments do you detractors could accept without making your mindless bashing agenda. Probably the "I suck, I'm the worst driver on the grid, and I commit suicide today" would be satisfying.

[pUs]

To be honest, it seems a bit weird to just write this year off at this early point. It doesn't make sense and I don't think Renault will either.

I'm quite sure they will get on top of their problems eventually, perhaps even quite soon. They're too good to avoid it.

[former champ]

Originally posted by clampett


You guys are so cheap. Fisi can say anything, you find the way to bash him. If he says he wants to fight for the WDC and wins, he is just a turd, and if he rules out this he is the same.

There is nothing wrong with Fisi's comment. It makes perfect sense unfortunately, since the car is flawed in the early season, and they can't afford to develop it with their small budget. What Fisi says is the same as usually other drivers like Trulli, Button, or Jacques Who said if their car went on the wrong direction. Alonso also moaned at the second half of last year, when Renault already started slumping with ban of mass dampers. And they are right.

I wonder what kind of comments do you detractors could accept without making your mindless bashing agenda. Probably the "I suck, I'm the worst driver on the grid, and I commit suicide today" would be satisfying.

Jesus, it's just my opinion. Whether you like it or not, he's lucky to be there this year and the same with next. Let the thread evolve without destroying it. I think with these comments, he's not doing himself any favours for next year, put it that way.

[ahmadhadji]

Fisi must be careful with such kind of comments because one might think that the word "turd" refers to Fisi himself. Anyone who have followed F1 for last two seasons would argee if there is any TURD in Renault team it is Fisi, not R27.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by ahmadhadji
Fisi must be careful with such kind of comments because one might think that the word "turd" refers to Fisi himself. Anyone who have followed F1 for last two seasons would argee if there is any TURD in Renault team it is Fisi, not R27.

Well, to a point yes, he at least managed to win in each of the last two years, and score regular decent points; that points to the fact that the R27 is - well - pretty crap, really.

[clampett]

Originally posted by ahmadhadji
Fisi must be careful with such kind of comments because one might think that the word "turd" refers to Fisi himself. Anyone who have followed F1 for last two seasons would argee if there is any TURD in Renault team it is Fisi, not R27.

Fisi never said the "turd" word, that's only the thread starter's imagination.

And anyone who followed the 2005 season, if there was any turd there, it was the R25 #6 car and its awful reliability. Of course the detractors directly want to forget it, because it never helped the Fisi-bashfest.

[kismet]

I'm surprised he's ruling out even podiums, let alone wins.

[Owen]

Originally posted by kismet
I'm surprised he's ruling out even podiums, let alone wins.

If RBR and Toyota come up to BMW pace (as they both seem to think they will) then maybe this is a fairly accurate summary.

[HoldenRT]

I'm surprised he's ruling out even podiums, let alone wins.

It doesn't surprise me at all. Don't expect Renault to bounce back to the front any time soon. Maybe some small improvements, but all the teams they are competing with (RB, Toyota, Williams) will be making those.

I still think the main reason for their demise is the tyre switch. And they have said as much (and also other reasons). But pinpointing the exact reasons why the switch has affected them, and what needs to be changed to turn it around will take alot of time. How long did it take them to build a WDC capable car on Michelins? Alot more then one season.

The R27 is a turd, but if they bolted on Michelin's or if all teams were forced to use Michelins, I think they'd suddenly be pretty quick.

There are other factors of course, Fisi isn't Alonso and Kovi is a rookie. They don't have the biggest budget and Alonso is gone. But you could put Kimi and Alonso in that car, and it still wouldn't achieve the same as it did in the last 2 seasons. Not even close. The fact that RB outpaced them last race showed there is nothing wrong with the engine. The aero is a similar evolution from that used last year. What else could it be.

I don't buy the "we spent so much time on 06, that it hurt 07" because the exact same thing was said in 05 going into 06. And they won the first race of 06. Fisi won the second race. Yes Fisi. On the weekends that Michelin were at their strongest, Renault were at their strongest.

And before Arrow gets his panties in a bunch, yes Alonso's departure had an impact, but not 1.5 seconds.

[Man of the race]

Seems that the thread titles have finally reached the quality of usual contents.

[kismet]

Yeah, but "we're aiming to finish on podium once or thrice" is like the unofficial midfield mantra, just like the backmarkers are always aiming for points. I guess I'm just surprised by Fisi's general negativity and lack of confidence in his team's car development vis-a-vis that of the rest of the midfield. He's finished on points in every race so far this season, so the next step upwards would be the podium but he's already convinced himself that it's just not going to happen. Why the heck not? Ferrari/McLaren/BMW won't always have troublefree races.

In other news, was it Peter Windsor who last year opined that basically only an idiot would choose Ferrari over Renault?

[Limits]

Originally posted by Owen


If RBR and Toyota come up to BMW pace (as they both seem to think they will) then maybe this is a fairly accurate summary.

RBR and Toyota are at the moment at Renault pace. Fisi is talking to much. he has been talking to much ever since he decided he would be leading the team. Giving up after three races is not very good leadership, Giancarlo.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Lifew12


On performance so far he has no less reason to be than Kovalainen, does he?

Fisi's a rookie?

[clampett]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1

Fisi's a rookie?

There are many rookies and sophomores this year, and the biggest gap between drivers has to be between the Renault guys.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by clampett


There are many rookies and sophomores this year, and the biggest gap between drivers has to be between the Renault guys.

Yup, Kovaleinen has not impressed much thus far. But he's Briatore's boy, so I'd still put more money on him being given a second chance if he improves over the season than Fisi being given another chance to be midfield.

[MortenF1]

Excepting Melbourne, Kovalainen has done OK I think, even if his performance has been worse than I thought it'd be. Good thing is that there's been step-by-step progression (and that's even if we discount Melbourne, 'cause that wasn't Kovalainen showing his true self) and I still expect him to have the upper hand on Fisichella a bit further into the season.

[clampett]

Kova was at the closest gap on Fisi in Sepang. He also had a 3 day testing at the track in the previous week. But IMHO the difference was rather big in Bahrein, except the woeful second stint for Fisi, with overfueling and shot tyres. Kova must prove himself in Barcelona, because I can't picture a good result against Fisi in Monaco, Canada or Indy.

[clampett]

Originally posted by race addicted
Excepting Melbourne, Kovalainen has done OK I think, even if his performance has been worse than I thought it'd be. Good thing is that there's been step-by-step progression (and that's even if we discount Melbourne, 'cause that wasn't Kovalainen showing his true self) and I still expect him to have the upper hand on Fisichella a bit further into the season.

I guess you predicted the same for Button in 2001 and Massa in 2004.;)

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by clampett


I guess you predicted the same for Button in 2001 and Massa in 2004.;)

No I didn't. But saying that about Button - afterall he'd shown flashes of brilliance and generally wasn't very far behind Ralf Schumacher in '00 - wouldn't have been outlandish at all. Just a shame that he lost focus totally on what's important to be competitive in F1.
I can't remember having any expectations about Massa v Fisichella, but he's always been regarded as quick, but in those days as very ragged as well. It wasn't really a great surprise that Fisichella beat him.

What's clear though is that both drivers have improved by heaps from where they were in 2001 and 2004 respectively.

[Deeq]

Originally posted by RDM



Either way - as somebody already mentioned - it just seems a bad idea for Fisi or Renault to discuss this in public, as it is sure to embolden their close rivals.

Good of you to come by George...hows the surge

I agree Fisi's being unwise to discuse this issue in public, its not like he is lets say a safe bet on being a Renault driver come by next year...And we don't want to give the management any untoward ideas right now or are we?

[Porsche996]

Originally posted by Nobody
You can't win wc with a polished turd

Exactly. That is why polishing Fisi isn't good enough. Renault need to get rid of him.

[Limits]

Originally posted by clampett
Kova was at the closest gap on Fisi in Sepang. He also had a 3 day testing at the track in the previous week. But IMHO the difference was rather big in Bahrein, except the woeful second stint for Fisi, with overfueling and shot tyres. Kova must prove himself in Barcelona, because I can't picture a good result against Fisi in Monaco, Canada or Indy.

You give him only three races to get on par with a veteran driver that until recently was considered one of the very best? Massa needed three seasons to become a racer but is now quicker than the driver that until recently was considered quickest of them all. Three days of testing at Sepang, wow. How many times have Fisi raced there and how many days does that amount to?

I can not lie and say that I had not expected more from Heikki, I did, but if that Renault really is the turd Fisi say it is, I think it might be to early to dismiss him.

[molive]

"is he simply trying to cover his own flaws"


This early? Kovalainen hanst set the world on fire, I dont see any reason why GF would throw the towel like that. I'm inclined to believe that the car is indeed a dog.

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by Porsche996


Exactly. That is why polishing Fisi isn't good enough. Renault need to get rid of him.

It would be really interesting to see what Michael Schumacher could with the car and team...

[Leyser]

Originally posted by Lifew12


Well, to a point yes, he at least managed to win in each of the last two years, and score regular decent points; that points to the fact that the R27 is - well - pretty crap, really.

What does the fact, that his current results with the R27 wouldn't look out of place in his seasons in the R25 and R26, mean though?

[HSJ]

Originally posted by kismet


In other news, was it Peter Windsor who last year opined that basically only an idiot would choose Ferrari over Renault?

Thanks for reminding me of that! Windsor really knows his stuff. Like all the "experts". Really they know very little...

[yr]

Originally posted by Leyser


What does the fact, that his current results with the R27 wouldn't look out of place in his seasons in the R25 and R26, mean though?

Fisi won a race and got a pole both in 05 and 06 within first three races.
You reckon Fisi has been close to pole or win this year?

[Cotchin]

Originally posted by HSJ


Thanks for reminding me of that! Windsor really knows his stuff. Like all the "experts". Really they know very little...

Apart from you, of course, who can mathmatically proove Kimi is .5 seconds faster than anyone.... ever.

[Just]

Originally posted by kismet
In other news, was it Peter Windsor who last year opined that basically only an idiot would choose Ferrari over Renault?

Just out of curiosity, does anyone happen to have an exact quote (and source) of this?

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Cotchin


Apart from you, of course, who can mathmatically proove Kimi is .5 seconds faster than anyone.... ever.

I challenge you to find a post from me where I mathematically "proove" (sic) that Kimi is .5sec faster than anyone... ever.

[Cotchin]

Oh c'mon... it's called sarcasm. I just get a little tired of you on the high horse with every single comment.

[runggald]

Originally posted by clampett
Kova was at the closest gap on Fisi in Sepang. He also had a 3 day testing at the track in the previous week. But IMHO the difference was rather big in Bahrein, except the woeful second stint for Fisi, with overfueling and shot tyres. Kova must prove himself in Barcelona, because I can't picture a good result against Fisi in Monaco, Canada or Indy.

Yeah, the next couple of races it's not looking good for Kovalainen at all. I know he's a rookie, and I know the car is bad but a lot of people were actually expecting him to wipe the floor with Fisi pretty much straight away since Fisi's rep had been hurt so much by Alonso. And Flavio did proclaim him to be the next Alonso too.

And by the way, there really is no such thing as a real "rookie" anymore seeing that guys like Hamilton and Kovalainen are groomed for years by their respective teams before they have their first race and do about 1000000 miles of testing beforehand. Look back at the 80's or early 90's to see the challenges that REAL rookies were up against!

But back to the next few races... these are 4 of Fisi's best tracks so Hekki's about to get thrashed. Watch out for Monaco where I expect the gap between Fisi and Heikki to be the biggest of the year and where Fisi might actually reach the podium.

Anyway, by the time Indy is finished I expect Fisi will have 20-25 points and Heikki maybe 3 or 4, and it's gonna be 7-0 in Fisi's favour.

[former champ]

Originally posted by Cotchin
Oh c'mon... it's called sarcasm. I just get a little tired of you on the high horse with every single comment.

only regarding Kimi of course, the fastest F1 driver of the last 40 or so years, hands down.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by yr


Fisi won a race and got a pole both in 05 and 06 within first three races.
You reckon Fisi has been close to pole or win this year?

Look at the complete seasons of 05/06, not just two races where he got some handicap wins. Fisi's level of performance is actually comparable to that of his 05/06 drives.