16 replies to this topic

[bespoke]

Apologies in advance as this is a long message...

I recently purchased a Huffaker Genie (chassis #3, ex Dan Gurney/Pedro Rodriguez) that has been featured in a few earlier posts on this forum. First of all my thanks to the folks that run this site as well as to the people that have posted on these cars. While I wait for delivery I have several questions for the experts.

The car is currently running a Hewland LG500 transaxle although it was originally fitted with the BMCD Huffaker. I have puchased an original Huffaker transaxle and my intention was/is to put it back in the car. My motivation is historical correctness as I would like to return it to its early racing configuration circa 1963-1966.

I have been told by a few people that the BMCD's were temperamental, somewhat difficult to maintain, and were tough to keep in top racing form. I know that they ran well "in period" and scored some significant victories so I don't know how to interpret these cautionary comments. I have also read that they were only good up to 400hp and that there were only about 50 of the transaxles originally produced. The motor in the car is currently rated at 450hp -/+.

The questions:

1. Does anyone have experience with the BMCD Huffaker transaxles and, if so, could you share some thoughts or opinions on their reliability and race worthiness?

2. In general I am extremely focused on correctness and originality in my cars. I believe it honors the history of the car including the drivers and the manufacturer. I also think over the long term that it helps a car maintain or even improve its value. At the same time I understand that with racing cars the reliability (and especially the safety) are more important or at least equally important as originality. If you had an original transaxle would you de-tune the engine down to 375-400hp and put it back in the car?

3. I am under the impression that the BMCD would have to be re-installed to get an FIA Heritage Certificate. It may also need to be installed to get an updated Historic Technical Passport (HTP). Can anyone with FIA expertise comment on that?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[David Birchall]

I have a friend who has the ex Chuck Parsons Genie. His car has been fitted since new, I think, with a McKee transaxle which is very strong. I can put you in touch with him if you want.

[bespoke]

That would be great. Thanks.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by bespoke
I recently purchased a Huffaker Genie (chassis #3, ex Dan Gurney/Pedro Rodriguez) .

Is this the car that Pedro drove to win at Kent in July, 1963, and idid it then go to Cunningham for Dan to drive at Riverside and Walt drove at Laguna Seca in 1963?

[bespoke]

It is the Dan Gurney 1963 Northwest Grand Prix (DNF), 1963 Pedro Rodriguez Times Grand Prix (3rd place). Gurney ran it as #7 and Rodriguez as #166.

[Gerard Gamand]

If this picture could have some help ? : it's the little Genie BMC in 1962

[Ray Bell]

Was this transaxle the one made using Corvette gears? Maybe Borg Warner T-10?

If it is, you might get some clues on how to make it more reliable/stronger from guys running the genuine boxes with those gears. Maybe forty years of 'updating' has brought some strength into them?

[bespoke]

Yes - they run the Corvette gears and there have been some significant materials upgrades over the years. I believe it is a differential out of an old Jeep, the transmission gears from a T10, and the quick change accepts Halibrand gears. I just don't have a sense for the reliability and flexibility.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by bespoke
It is the Dan Gurney 1963 Northwest Grand Prix (DNF), 1963 Pedro Rodriguez Times Grand Prix (3rd place). Gurney ran it as #7 and Rodriguez as #166.

OK, thanks! I know which one it is. The other car(s) I mentioned went elsewhere.

Have fun with it!

[David Pozzi]

I had one but never ran it.
It used T-10 gears as you said, the ring and pinion looked like a halibrand type but I'm no expert on Halibrands. The pinion gear is very small (not many teeth) and I'd expect that to die first on this unit. mine had some pits in the gear showing stress.

I believe most Halibrand ring and pinions were from or based on very early Ford trucks. Jeeps may have used them, I don't know. Jeeps do use Ford brakes, they bolt right on.

Watch out for later T-10 parts, they may not fit. Lots of changes were made over the years, including different ratios. The last T-10's were "Super T-10's and those parts probably won't fit.

I'm sure it will run with that box, but it won't shift as well as a Hewland or last as long. You are going to have to change the ring and pinion more often and probably do some syncro rebuilding. I've heard of making a cable shifter for it using Morse push pull cables. Non-cable linkage was said to be more difficult.
Good luck, David

[raceannouncer2003]

Have you seen this? Northwest GP, 1963...looks like the second heat to me.

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

One nice shot of your Genie, plus another of Dave Ridenour's yellow and blue Genie.

I have audiotaped interviews with Gurney and Ruby about that race, plus some more video footage.

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

[bespoke]

I did see that video when I was doing some research on the car. Amazing that a home made movie sits in someone's house for 40+ years, then gets converted to an internet format and posted on YouTube.

I would love to see the interviews and any additional footage you have. Please post it here or send me a message. Thanks.

[Typhoon]

I am restoring a BMCD Huffaker / Pontiac USRRC car from 1964 that in 65 went to a DG500 as they got tired of the broken 2 gear in the Muncie and the broken torque shafts. If you are going FIA certificate you will need to get with John Hardin as he is building a hardined BMCD for 550 or so bhp for his genie. I run the 1957 Typhoon S/R on the west coast and know most of the Genie racers almost all are ZF or Hewland based now. If you stay at the 450 bhp level you won't need the DG500 but it would be reliable with vintage pre 1966 style tires. Bob McKee is still running his engineering firm but is not building new transaxles. Joe Huffaker Jr. will rework BMCDs at his shop in N CA. I think Joe Sr. still helps. I have alot more info and all the drawings and parts books. Give a yell if you need something.
Have a good day

[thetinkert]

I just came upon your post from April 2007. I spoke to Joe Huffier Jr. several years back and he was very helpful as to what the Huffier BMCD transaxle was composed of and that they could rebuild any issue in house.  I have a FiberFab Valkyrie kit car with a Corvette 427 big block mated to a BMCD Huffaker transaxle, Porsche axles to Corvette trailing arms. It was a project that took over 40 years to build, and as of today, I have only 1500 miles on it. No issues with the transaxle till late September while in traffic, the mainshaft ripped where the lower quick change gear goes. upon opening the rear cover I was able to remove the lower gear with a small piece of the shaft. Mime is Borg Warner T-10, late shaft 1962/63 and on. The issue I have is getting the new shaft cut and splined to fit the quick change gear. I don't race the car, just street leisure touring. I was told the ring and pinion were 29 Ford, B/W T-10 trans and Halibrand quick change. Currently the shafts are out in PA being machined. 

Wondering how you made out with your Genie, and the BMCD.  

Tim Thorne   (my car is on youtube)   427valkyrie

[Lee Nicolle]

Old thread but while I have no idea on the transaxle I do re the parts. T10s are the oldest  of the evolution,,T10, Muncie, Rockcrusher and Super T10. Many but not all parts interchange or can be adapted. While a Super T10 is only rated about 450 ft lbs used with respect will last ok with 500ft lbs in a light car. The Muncie and early T10 both had problems with the case not being strong enough. Alloy Super T10s were better but having used them the nodular iron case resloves most issues. That and at least grooving the sleeve on first gear as late Muncies and Super T10s used. The Super Muncies offer a rollerised one. Far better!!There is a bloke building Super Muncies in the US. Just google that as he has most parts to make the Muncie at least stronger. Starting with the case.  The first gear drama nearly got me in private practice into turn 1 Adelaide International, I went back to third and the box was simply jammed as first geat had friction welded itself to the sleevbe. This at 160+ mph. Luckily I clutched it and wobbled around the corner. That is where others have crashed with similar dramas!!

Early Halibrands use Ford V8 / A model ring and pins. Which are 90 years old and very brittle to start with. Yet most Midget diffs are still based on that design. And were used in many Supermodifieds/ Sprintcars etc through to the 70s. They had two diff ratios 3.78 and 4.11 Only use the 3.78 and alter drop gears to suit. Gear sets are widely available for them from aftermarket gear manufacturers. Check any speedway publication. They are softer and do not break near as often. And are 90 years newer too

All of those gearboxes and diffs benefit from synthetic oil. The Halibrands run so much cooler and any 60s 70s gearbox live with the better oil.

I am in classic speedway and the guys using them or early Champ diffs are all sold on it. And stopped blowing diff gears with the above. And are turning big wide steel flywheels as well.

Which is also another thing, get rid of unsprung weight, it will resolve many problems as well. A 15x15" steel wheel for instance is bloody heavy.

Though getting back to cases,, IF the case is weak and flexes or worse been welded you will have nothing but dramas. The gears them selves are adequate but will break if the case is flexing.

[Ray Bell]

Lee, throwing the clutch in shouldn't have affected your situation, surely?

You didn't break the connection between the driveline and the locked gearbox, if my understanding of what you've written is correct...

[Lee Nicolle]

Lee, throwing the clutch in shouldn't have affected your situation, surely?

You didn't break the connection between the driveline and the locked gearbox, if my understanding of what you've written is correct...

First gear friction welded itself onto the sleeve. Clutching frees the gearbox from the engine. The unlikely occurrence of the input welding itself in the end of the crank clutching will make no difference. Chevs have bronze spigot bush so very unlikely to happen. Has happened on a Ford with the roller spigot though. And that was near certain being dragged in on the gearbox bolts. So poor fitment. Chewed the input quite severely. 

Single rail Borg Warners do it also, Bernie Van Elsen did it in the Bollwell and ended in the tyres quite hard,, not long after the KANDA had ended up there with a broken upright.

Though later single rails  are grooved.  Synthetic too seems to stop them doing it.

My effort was mid 90s and using normal 80/90 oil. And oils are not just oils!

With spigots too, if they are loose, as in worn they will sometimes jump gears. And transaxles do not have a tailshaft to cushion the flex either. The Monterrosso Escort literally had input shafts made by the half dozen for the DG 300.