48 replies to this topic

[HDonaldCapps]

Is it me or is there simply not much out there on Robby Weber?

I have been unable to really come up with much on this promising young driver. Not much beyond the very basic facts, not much of a clue as to the man himself.

This was prompted by realizing that he was lost during a Le Mans test session, a series that proved as deadly as the race itself it seems.

I was taken back at just how little I have been able to dig out of my files on Weber. Anyone have much that could help on this? I remember being impressed with him as one of the quickest of the new wave (sorry, couldn't resist) of French drivers entering the mainstream or motor racing at the time. Then he was gone.

[T54]

Don,
Jacques "Robby" Weber was my friend and tomorrow I will post here a beautiful picture that I kept all these years, with him next to Claude Vigreux and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud, all three laureates of the "Volant Shell" racing contest in Magny-Cours.
Robby did not have much time to express his true talent. He won a single F3 race on board his MATRA MS5, died at le Mans during the April test session in 1967. But the story is longer as Robby fought the whole of 1966 with Servoz-Gavin for the F3 title.
He was an extremely personable and focused person, and was if anything a bit too serious about things in general. A bit like Dennis Dayan in fact.
Regards,

T54

[raceannouncer2003]

Also, if it helps at all, there seems to be some more information that comes up on the internet when the name is spelled "Roby Weber"...Philippe, any thoughts on that?

Vince H.

[Gerard Gamand]

See the thread "Alpine single seaters" : it's a good picture of Roby in the Alpine F3 during winter test in 1965.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
Also, if it helps at all, there seems to be some more information that comes up on the internet when the name is spelled "Roby Weber"...Philippe, any thoughts on that?

Vince H.

Jennifer Weber writes her father's name as ROBY...

[T54]

We always knew him as "Robby" with 2 "b", as spelled in the period press, however I have seen it both ways.
At the time, I really did not give it much attention since after all it was a nickname. We never called him "Jacques".

On the net you can see it both ways:

... 1966 , se prit un cuite avec Robby Weber contre lequel il allait se battre sur ... sur Mono,Proto et Berlines, Volant SHELL,de plus!!,alors...laisse les pilotes ...

Lauréat du Volant Shell, on lui offre sa F3 (une Cooper-BMC) au printemps 1964 ... au terme d'un long duel avec Robby Weber enlève le titre en 1966, alors que ...

Roby Weber, F. Ecurie Volant Shell. Alpine A310 - Renault. 41'01.0" 5. 5. Philippe Vidal, F ... Ecurie Volant Shell. Alpine A310 - Renault. 10. 10. Jean-Marie ...

etc.
I do not think it matters much really.

[FLB]

He was very close to Johnny Servoz-Gavin. He wrote about him quite a bit in his biography, saying that he loved him like a brother.

[Muzza]

When I talked to Beltoise in Reims, back in 1999, he also expressed fondness for Weber. He said something like "Robby was quite a nice guy. He was a very promising driver, who drove in a 'classic style'. We thought he would go far [in his racing career]."

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by T54
We always knew him as "Robby" with 2 "b", as spelled in the period press....

He was always - or 90% of the time - 'Roby' in the English press of the time
I wouldn't pay too much attention to websites, as not many of them were around when Weber was alive
But as you say, nickname spellings don't really matter

[Gerard Gamand]

Roby (with just one "b") Weber, of his true name Jacques Weber, was born March 9th, 1940 in Metz (east of France). He was working as a representativ in textile when he came to follow the Winfield school at Magny Cours. I think he had never drive a racing car before.

He was qualified for the final of the second "Volant Shell" 1964 and... win it !!
He beat Jean Claude Palis, Alain Serpaggi and all the other finalists.

(The first "Volant Shell" in 1963 was win by Jean-Pierre Jaussaud who had win a Cooper T72 BMC for the 1964 season)

A very happy Roby Weber won a brand new Alpine Renault A270 Formula 3 and a budget of 10.000 FF for the 1965 formula 3 french championship !
The Alpine would be engaged and transported by the Winfield structure.


Here the pic of his victory, at the end of the year 1964 (the final was run on the Winfield School Lotus 18 at Magny Cours.)

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by T54
Jacques "Robby" Weber was my friend and tomorrow I will post here a beautiful picture that I kept all these years, with him next to Claude Vigreux and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud, all three laureates of the "Volant Shell" racing contest in Magny-Cours.

I am very interested to see this photo, since I always wanted to know what Vigreux looked like. Please.

[T54]

I will post it tonight, I thought I had it at my office and in fact it is not here. I MAY have some other pics of Rob(b)y Weber. I also will begin a thread on Claude Vigreux.

[Doug Nye]

Roby Weber was the first racing driver I ever had the privilege of riding with around a circuit - Montlhery 1964 in an Alpine-Renault Berlinette. Very engaging bloke, very quick, very smooth - very reassuring to a young lad from foreign parts. I was very saddened by the news of his fatal accident at Le Mans.

DCN

[HDonaldCapps]

Thanks, everyone, for the comments. I wrote "Robby" rather than "Roby" since that was how it was given in most of the English-language sources. He is another one of those we lost way too soon.

[Bonde]

Was Roby in any way related to the Edoardo Weber of carburettor fame?

[T54]

Not that I know, Weber is quite a common name.

Here is the promised picture:



On the left is Jean-Pierre Jaussaud, first Volant Shell. In center is Claude Vigreux who just won the Volant Shell and is the third winner (1966) of the prestigious contest. At the right is Jacques Weber who won it the preceeding year. This picture was taken at Magny Cours on the evening of the contest.
While I was at it I scanned a whole lot of Vigreux's pictures and will open a separate thread to tell the story of his life.
Regards,

T54

[Hieronymus]

T54

Many thanks for this very nice photo.

I think much too little has been written on this talented driver over the years, but it was just perhaps a case of him being taken away from us, too soon.

The surname WEBER has got a German ring to it?? Very common surname as suggested. Even out here they come in numbers.

Was it "fashionable" amongst the French to have these English sounding names in the 60s? I think if "Jimmy" Mieusset, "Robby" Weber, " Johnny" Servoz-Gavin and "Henry" Grandsire.

[Haine Kane]

You forgot the great "Bob" WOLLEK

[Gerard Gamand]

Marius...you have forget : Roby with just ONE "B" !!

[Hieronymus]

Yes, you see this happens when TNFers start smuggling with my brain cells.

Re. T54's earlier comment. François Cevert won the Volant Shell in 1966, so Roby Weber won his "pass to greatness" the previous year (1965). Jaussaud won it in 1964.

[Gerard Gamand]

With friendly...

The first "Volant Shell" was the 1963 and Jaussaud won a brand new blue Cooper BMC T72 (F3-18-64) for the 1964 season of F3.

The second "Volant Shell" was the 1964 and Roby Weber won a brand new Alpine Renault A270 (??) and the 10.000 FF of budget for run it in the 1965 season of F3.

The Third "Volant Shell" was the 1965 and Claude Vigreux won for the first time a single seater of his choice (??) for the 1966 season of F3.

The fourth "Volant Shell" was the 1966 and François Cevert beat Patrick Depailler for won an Alpine A ??? of one year old for the 1967 season of F3.

[Gerard Gamand]

This is Claude Vigreux in his winning run for the 1965 "Volant Shell" at the wheel of a Winfield Merlyn.

[Hieronymus]

Well, it seems I'm on a roll here. Two errors in two posts.

Here is, what I believe, one of the last ever photos taken of Roby Weber...



(photographer unknown)

[T54]

Hi Gerard,
Here are two more pictures of Claude taken the same day:





Here Claude is seen with Tico Martini, who ran the school at the time. Note: no safety belts!
Regards,

T54

[T54]

Hieronymus, note the poor location of the shoulder belts on the 630, and how loose they are. Roby did not stand a chance.

[Hieronymus]

Yes, that is criminal especially in present day context.

Do you perhaps have more exact details on the happenings just prior to Roby's fatal accident?

I have it that Roby tested the old 1.9 Matra-BRM MS620. He then insisted (with 10 minutes of practice left ) to have a run with the new 2.0 Matra-BRM MS630 that Jean-Pierre Jaussaud tested earlier in the day. Jean-Luc Lagardère agreed, something he regretted till his death.

Looking at the helmet colours of my earlier post, I now think it can be Jaussaud at the wheel.

[T54]

I think that it could be Roby with JP's helmet... or it could be Jaussaud. I do not recall the circumstances of the accident.

[Hieronymus]

I can add that Jaussaud complained about the car's instability at high speed. Roby was eventually given permission to try the car out as well and then to compare driving impressions with J-P Jaussaud.

The Matra engineers made "corrections" to the suspension settings in order to make it more stable. They applied a mechanical solution to an aerodynamic problem. The car suffered from lift. As he gained speed, Jaussaud had felt the car wiggle and swerve under him. He found it difficult to control. Weber probably experienced the same phenomenon. Roby Weber lost control of the Matra on the Mulsanne and sent the car in a mulitple roll.

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
T54



Was it "fashionable" amongst the French to have these English sounding names in the 60s? I think if "Jimmy" Mieusset, "Robby" Weber, " Johnny" Servoz-Gavin and "Henry" Grandsire.

sadly YES , it was fashionable in france specially in the showbusiness, and most of the time they were not even able to pronounce there own name correctly

[T54]

Sure was... how about "Johnny" Rives, the well-known journalist...

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by T54
Sure was... how about "Johnny" Rives, the well-known journalist...

yes ,but he had a very good "plume " ,with some literrary style from what i read in his occasional work for sport-auto , his main job was at the paper L'équipe . but we didnt receive L'equipe in canada then , i always wondered if he wasnt the ghost writer of "mes exces de vitesse " the memoir of Servoz-gavin.

[T54]

I could also mention "Johnny Halliday" AKA Jean-Philippe Smet...

[rudi]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Yes, that is criminal especially in present day context.

Do you perhaps have more exact details on the happenings just prior to Roby's fatal accident?

I have it that Roby tested the old 1.9 Matra-BRM MS620. He then insisted (with 10 minutes of practice left ) to have a run with the new 2.0 Matra-BRM MS630 that Jean-Pierre Jaussaud tested earlier in the day. Jean-Luc Lagardère agreed, something he regretted till his death.

Looking at the helmet colours of my earlier post, I now think it can be Jaussaud at the wheel.

In the old Matra 620 was a V8 4,7 Ford engine.

[philippe7]

I didn't think the Ford 4,7 l had been tried in a 620 , only in the 630.....but on double-checking my files, it appears that rudi is right : 620-02 was indeed fitted with a big Ford for those trials, while the 630 still had a BRM engine .

[Doug Nye]

Sorry about this:

(quote) It had been the very promising young French driver Roby Weber – ex-Alpine-Renault – who test-drove the hybrid Matra MS620-Ford V8 at this Le Mans Test Weekend. He had lapped at 207.5km/h in this hybrid car which would never be raced, and served only as an experimental hack influencing design of the definitive new MS630.

But straight from his comfortably quick lap of Le Mans in the Ford-engined car, Roby Weber slid himself into the driving seat of the team’s brand-new prototype MS630, combining the cross-over exhaust 2-litre BRM V8 power-pack with a modified and lightened multi-tubular spaceframe chassis.

It featured hip-mounted radiators in place of the previous nose-mounted layout, and wore sleek new aerodynamic Coupé bodywork. Jean-Pierre Jaussaud had driven the car previously and had complained of stability problems.

After brief discussion with Jaussaud regarding the new prototype’s behaviour, Weber accelerated out of the pits. He would never return.

Near maximum speed, well onto the Mulsanne Straight, the primer-grey (Hmm in view of the photograph is this correct - was it actually painted blue?) new Matra-BRM went out of control and was destroyed in a terrible accident, disintegrating as it ricocheted from one trackside tree to another, somersaulted into the garden of a roadside residence, struck a log pile and exploded into flames.

The fire truck took a long time to arrive, and the wreck blazed fiercely until it did, with its unfortunate driver’s body trapped inside. He had been killed instantly. (shades of slow response to the Bino Heins Le Mans accident here )

DCN

[FLB]

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Near maximum speed, well onto the Mulsanne Straight, the primer-grey (Hmm in view of the photograph is this correct - was it actually painted blue?) new Matra-BRM went out of control and was destroyed in a terrible accident, disintegrating as it ricocheted from one trackside tree to another, somersaulted into the garden of a roadside residence, struck a log pile and exploded into flames.

DCN

I'm going to our National Library tonight. It has a Matra Sport history book, which I used to write Weber's bio on Motorsport Memorial, although for some reason the reference is not on the note

Here is the full reference:

Matra: La saga 1965-1982, by José Rosinski, ETAI, Boulogne-Billancourt, France, 2nd Edition, 2001, ISBN 2-7268-8301-X.

I'll try to dig it out. It features a few Weber pictures, including one noted to be the last time he left the pits.

[T54]

During the time I was connected with MATRA because of my work with the French kit maker Heller manufacturing a very sophisticated model of the MS5 F2, Marcel Chassagny told me that the first 630 prototype was "a death trap". Apparently he had been vocal about the body design that caused massive nose lift.
He was very distraught by Roby's death.

[Muzza]

Originally posted by FLB

I'm going to our National Library tonight. It has a Matra Sport history book, which I used to write Weber's bio on Motorsport Memorial, although for some reason the reference is not on the note

Here is the full reference:

Matra: La saga 1965-1982, by José Rosinski, ETAI, Boulogne-Billancourt, France, 2nd Edition, 2001, ISBN 2-7268-8301-X.

I'll try to dig it out. It features a few Weber pictures, including one noted to be the last time he left the pits.

Salut, François!


Thank you indeed for submitting Weber's biography to Motorsport Memorial. I noticed that Nanni listed the sources exactly as you quote above - do you want us to change anything? (Or I am misunderstanding your words?)

Incidentally, our page on Weber needs clean-up (paragraph breaks, etc.). I will work on that before the weekend.

Originally posted by T54
During the time I was connected with MATRA because of my work with the French kit maker Heller manufacturing a very sophisticated model of the MS5 F2, Marcel Chassagny told me that the first 630 prototype was "a death trap". Apparently he had been vocal about the body design that caused massive nose lift.
He was very distraught by Roby's death.

Your posting just reminded of the terrible crash Pescarolo suffered in the April Test Day prior to the 1969 race. Before the accident there was a very heated debated within the Matra Team about the behaviour of the M640 in high speeds. The several engineers involved in the project - and the drivers - strongly disagreed about what to do to make the car more stable. Emulating what happened before Weber's tragedy two years earlier, some suggested to keep the aero as it was and change the suspension instead, mainly by pitching the rake angle.

Amidst this debate Pescarolo went out for a test run and the M640 simply took off - on the early section of Les Hunaudières. How Pesca managed to survive the crash was a miracle, as the car somersaulted in the air, disintegrated against the trees and exploded. He was seriously injured and suffered extensive burns (didn't he start to sport a beard to disguise the scars from this very crash?). I read somewhere (maybe one of Tessadière's books) that Pescarolo was told to "take it easy" and gradually build up speed as nobody was truly confident in the car; Legardère and others accused Pesca of not following these instructions and not few blamed him for the accident. The driver, on the other hand, said that the accident took place at moderate speeds, within the limit he was told to observe...

I had failed to connect the dots between Pescarolo's crash and Weber's fatal accident two years earlier (what just shows, once again, how little I know). Looking back, they seem eerily similar. But, the again, there were quite a few aero-related horrendous accidents those years... (Laine's at Nürburgring, Hawkins' at Mosport, etc.).

Regards,


Muzza

[T54]

Muzza,
One has to remember that the concept of sown force was still in its infancy. Remember that even Porsche and their might had a tough time to figure out what would work on the 917, and were merely being inspired by Jim Hall and his experiments with down force, who had it figured out for just about everyone else. MATRA was looking for top speed at all cost on the Hunaudieres, and the mere idea of creating drag was a sin. What Choulet and the SERA failed to understand then is that drag sometimes GAINS you speed, especially in the kink if you can keep your foot nailed to the power pedal...
But no one can blame anyone really, it was a question of learning the hard way.

[Gerard Gamand]

T54,

About Claude Vigreux :

He never race the formula 3 he had won ??
I understand he had continued to race motorbikes after the "Volant Shell" ??
I don't find any trace of him after his winning day ??

[T54]

Gerard,
I am preparing a tribute to Claude with many pictures, from his beginnings to his untimely end.
Yes, he did race the MATRA, only once, at Monthlery, after a test session there with the Shell people that I attended. He was killed in Belgium at Mettet on his Rickman-G50 shortly after. It was very tragic as the responsibility was squarely in the hands of the race organizers.
The brand-new MATRA was sold by Claude's grandmother to Jean-Claude Guenard.
Regards,

T54

[FLB]

Originally posted by Muzza


Salut, François!


Thank you indeed for submitting Weber's biography to Motorsport Memorial. I noticed that Nanni listed the sources exactly as you quote above - do you want us to change anything? (Or I am misunderstanding your words?)

Incidentally, our page on Weber needs clean-up (paragraph breaks, etc.). I will work on that before the weekend.


I had failed to connect the dots between Pescarolo's crash and Weber's fatal accident two years earlier (what just shows, once again, how little I know). Looking back, they seem eerily similar. But, the again, there were quite a few aero-related horrendous accidents those years... (Laine's at Nürburgring, Hawkins' at Mosport, etc.).

Bom Dia, Sal!


When I looked at the note this morning, I failed to see the reference... because I only looked at the 'preview' of the note and not the note itself...

Thank you in advance for the clean-up!

I remember reading that the 908/2 in particular had a blow-over problem, perhaps in Vic Elford's biography (La victoire... ou rien!, Solar, 1974). As for Hawkins, do you mean his flip in a Lola T70 spyder? If that's the case, it happened at Mont-Tremblant. John Surtees was indeed a victim at Mosport.

Reading T54's post above, I am reminded that Jean-Claude Guénard also perished in motorsports. He was with Didier Prioni and Bernard Giroux when they were killed aboard Pironi's boat.

[Doug Nye]

This is becoming depressing isn't it...these wonderfully charismatic Matra cars and so many luckless young lads who campaigned them...

DCN

[T54]

It certainly compares very unfavorably with that journalist comment about Nico having trouble with his automatic baby-feed doctor-selected high-energy fluid bottle, does it not...

[Gerard Gamand]

That's exactly the reason why we are here !

[T54]

Indeed.

[marcos06]

Dear t54,
claude vigreux made a few races with the matra ( without success):
15 may, gd prix de paris 1966 DNS
3 july reims challenge craven DNQ
15 august Nogaro 13 th
4 september Coupe de vitesse Monthléry DNA
25 september Coupe de Paris DNA
He died 30 april 67

Do you have photo of him with the matra?

marc coschieri

[T54]

I do not have a picture of him in the MATRA. I have other pictures that I will post in a different thread.

[Hieronymus]

In the French television series MICHEL VAILLANT (episode 9) we can see Roby Weber. Henri Grandsire (Vaillant) has a lenghty discussion with Weber about the circuit and its different corners.

I'm sure it is Weber...perhaps someone else know this series and can comment. Maybe I'm wrong?!